Temporary Disabled. :) please Go back ⚓ T268143 Completely remove Kazakh language converter www.fgks.org » Address: [go: up one dir, main page] Include Form Remove Scripts Accept Cookies Show Images Show Referer Rotate13 Base64 Strip Meta Strip Title Session Cookies Page MenuHomePhabricatorSearchConfigure Global SearchLog InCreate Task Maniphest T268143 Completely remove Kazakh language converterClosed, ResolvedPublicActionsEdit TaskEdit Related Tasks...Create SubtaskEdit Parent TasksEdit SubtasksMerge Duplicates InClose As DuplicateEdit Related Objects...Edit CommitsEdit MocksSubscribeMute NotificationsProtect as security issueAward TokenFlag For LaterAssigned ToLadsgroupAuthored ByArystanbekNov 18 2020, 2:48 PM2020-11-18 14:48:05 (UTC+0)TagsMediaWiki-Language-converter (Converter-specific)MW-1.42-notes (1.42.0-wmf.7; 2023-11-28)Referenced FilesF33919085: image.pngNov 19 2020, 9:45 AM2020-11-19 09:45:32 (UTC+0)F33919083: image.pngNov 19 2020, 9:45 AM2020-11-19 09:45:32 (UTC+0)F33918336: langvars.pngNov 18 2020, 2:58 PM2020-11-18 14:58:35 (UTC+0)SubscribersAklapperAmire80ArystanbekjhsobyLadsgroupmukhamejanMuratKaribayWinston_SungDescriptionPlease completely remove the Converter of the Kazakh language, because of so many bugs and very low usage statistics. Delete locales: kk-arab, kk-cyrl, kk-latn kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr Only need kk locale Migrate all translations ...../kk-cyrl to ...../kk Related topics: T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter T257211: Determine frequency of usage of language variants DetailsSubjectRepoBranchLines +/-Bump wikimedia/parsoid to 0.19.0-a7mediawiki/vendormaster+884 -456Remove kk lang conversion tests: kk converter no longer existsmediawiki/services/parsoidmaster+0 -9Remove language coverter for Kazakhmediawiki/coremaster+15 -1 KRemove Kazakh (kk) language variantsmediawiki/extensions/Wikibasemaster+1 -33Customize query in gerritRelated ObjectsSearch...Task GraphMentionsStatusSubtypeAssignedTask InvalidNoneT282525 Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants ResolvedLadsgroupT268143 Completely remove Kazakh language converterMentioned In T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variantsT351896: Introduce a proper Kazakh language converterT250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converterT282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktopT350684: Disable cyrillic-latin-arab converter in Kazakh Wikipedia Mentioned Here T39617: Do not convert text marked as being in another language with a lang attributeT282520: Fix unnecessary "disable" variants from the Kazakh Wikipedia on mobile webT282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variantsT282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktopT282527: Untranslated CentralNotice banners get unnecessarily converted by the language converterT282528: Make translation to languages with a converter more user-friendly in the Translate extensionT199895: Arabic transliteration in Kazakh and KurdishT250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converterT257211: Determine frequency of usage of language variants Event TimelineThere are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older ChangesRestricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptNov 18 2020, 2:48 PM2020-11-18 14:48:06 (UTC+0)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 18 2020, 2:49 PM2020-11-18 14:49:46 (UTC+0)• Nikerabbit removed projects: Language-Team (Language-2020-October-December), Platform Engineering, Desktop Improvements (Vector 2022), UniversalLanguageSelector.Nov 18 2020, 2:50 PM2020-11-18 14:50:26 (UTC+0)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 18 2020, 2:58 PM2020-11-18 14:58:35 (UTC+0)Peachey88 renamed this task from Completely revome Kazakh language converter to Completely remove Kazakh language converter.Nov 18 2020, 8:10 PM2020-11-18 20:10:10 (UTC+0)Peachey88 updated the task description. (Show Details)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 19 2020, 2:39 AM2020-11-19 02:39:12 (UTC+0)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 19 2020, 2:41 AM2020-11-19 02:41:35 (UTC+0)Arystanbek triaged this task as High priority.Nov 19 2020, 2:57 AM2020-11-19 02:57:44 (UTC+0)MuratKaribay subscribed.Nov 19 2020, 3:44 AM2020-11-19 03:44:06 (UTC+0)Arystanbek updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 19 2020, 4:11 AM2020-11-19 04:11:50 (UTC+0)Amire80 raised the priority of this task from High to Needs Triage.Nov 19 2020, 7:56 AM2020-11-19 07:56:48 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsAre you sure it should be completely removed? I visited Almaty for the Turkic Wikimedia Conference in 2012, and there was a Kazakh man from China who spoke very passionately about the need for a converter to Latin and showed me many Chinese websites in Kazakh in the Arabic script. (I know Russian, but he doesn't, so somebody had to translate what he said from Kazakh to Russian for me.) I'd like to see a wider community discussion about this, with participation from people who use different alphabets. Does the mere existence of a converter get in the way of doing something? The reason for low usage is not necessarily that people don't need it. The reason may be that the feature is difficult to use and people aren't aware of it. This can be fixed by better design. And generally, how do you know that the usage is low? Do you have statistics? And what are the bugs in the converter? Perhaps they can be fixed? Finally, I've heard on the news that Kazakhstan plans a transition to a new Lаtin alphabet, so a transliterator may be needed in a major way soon. I do agree, however, that the extra locales (kz, tr, cn) can probably be removed, and that alphabets are enough, as suggested in T250604, although I'm not sure that it's easy to do. It's possible that they have to be preserved in some way forArystanbek added a comment.Edited · Nov 19 2020, 8:51 AM2020-11-19 08:51:15 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#6632830, @Amire80 wrote: Are you sure it should be completely removed? I visited Almaty for the Turkic Wikimedia Conference in 2012, and there was a Kazakh man from China who spoke very passionately about the need for a converter to Latin and showed me many Chinese websites in Kazakh in the Arabic script. (I know Russian, but he doesn't, so somebody had to translate what he said from Kazakh to Russian for me.) I'd like to see a wider community discussion about this, with participation from people who use different alphabets. Does the mere existence of a converter get in the way of doing something? The reason for low usage is not necessarily that people don't need it. The reason may be that the feature is difficult to use and people aren't aware of it. This can be fixed by better design. And generally, how do you know that the usage is low? Do you have statistics? And what are the bugs in the converter? Perhaps they can be fixed? Finally, I've heard on the news that Kazakhstan plans a transition to a new Lаtin alphabet, so a transliterator may be needed in a major way soon. I do agree, however, that the extra locales (kz, tr, cn) can probably be removed, and that alphabets are enough, as suggested in T250604, although I'm not sure that it's easy to do. It's possible that they have to be preserved in some way for Hello. Wikipedia in China banned. I have started a community consensus: https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уикипедия:Форум/Техникалық#Түрлендіргіш/Converter. Also discussed about this many times in our community's telegram group. Page Views by country: https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/kk.wikipedia.org/reading/page-views-by-country/normal|map|last-month|~total|monthly Too many bugs: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Errors_in_Kazakh_Wikipedia_(Mobile_view)_-_2.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Langvars.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_2.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_3.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_4.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_5.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_6.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_fallback_chains_in_kkwiki.jpg Amire80 added a comment.Nov 19 2020, 9:33 AM2020-11-19 09:33:04 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsAll these bugs can be addressed. I'll report them separately. The fact that Wikipedia is banned in China is also not a reason to remove the converter completely. The ban may be lifted in the future.MuratKaribay added a comment.Nov 19 2020, 9:45 AM2020-11-19 09:45:32 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80, as you wrote earlier, the converter has a number of problems The converter contains the code Cyrl2Latn and Latn2Cyrl due to two simultaneous conversions, foreign words are translated into Cyrillic, this causes problems For example, This is how registered Wikipedia users see And not registered users As you can see, New York City was transliterated as Неу Ёрк Цітy this should not be due to such problems and the converter is not needed It would be nice to remove Latn2Cyrl as it transliterates everything written in Latin letters Yes, we would like to remove the locales kk-KZ, kk-CN and kk-TR since if there are alphabets why then countries And I would also like to consider adding an offline converter that translates only the content of the article that does not affect the interfaceMuratKaribay added a comment.Nov 19 2020, 9:49 AM2020-11-19 09:49:59 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80 And also the Arabic script of the Kazakh also has errors when converting the digit is translated into old Arabic numerals and the Kazakhs of China use modern Arabic numerals If possible, I would like to make corrections since I know all 3 alphabets of KazakhArystanbek added a comment.Nov 21 2020, 2:36 PM2020-11-21 14:36:11 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80 who can solve these problems? @MuratKaribay also found some critical problems. We receive complaints from users every day but we don't have permission to remove this useless converter. I'm so grateful for your help!Aklapper added a comment.Jan 29 2021, 9:58 AM2021-01-29 09:58:53 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#6633068, @MuratKaribay wrote: And also the Arabic script of the Kazakh also has errors when converting the digit is translated into old Arabic numerals and the Kazakhs of China use modern Arabic numerals Hi, could you file separate, dedicated tasks about problems, please (if not existing yet) by following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug ? Thanks a lot! (See also T199895: Arabic transliteration in Kazakh and Kurdish which might be related.)Aklapper added a comment.Jan 29 2021, 9:59 AM2021-01-29 09:59:09 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80: Should either this task remain open, or should T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter be open? I don't think both can be done?Amire80 added a comment.Jan 29 2021, 11:37 AM2021-01-29 11:37:15 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsLeave it open. It's probably not going to be removed entirely, but at the moment it does have several important bugs, and this task here has good documentation of these. I'll open new tasks separately soon (like, within a month), and close this one.Aklapper added a comment.Apr 5 2021, 8:49 PM2021-04-05 20:49:00 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80: Would you open these separate task? Thanks!Amire80 added a subtask: T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter.May 11 2021, 9:01 AM2021-05-11 09:01:20 (UTC+0)Amire80 added a comment.May 11 2021, 9:24 AM2021-05-11 09:24:33 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#6632941, @Arystanbek wrote: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Errors_in_Kazakh_Wikipedia_(Mobile_view)_-_2.jpg Task: T282520: Fix unnecessary "disable" variants from the Kazakh Wikipedia on mobile web https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Langvars.png Task: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors.jpg Task: T282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktop https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_2.jpg Task: T282528: Make translation to languages with a converter more user-friendly in the Translate extension https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_3.jpg Same as T282526. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_4.jpg Task: T282527: Untranslated CentralNotice banners get unnecessarily converted by the language converter https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_5.png This is not a bug. The article used a Latin c instead of the Cyrillic с. I fixed it. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_6.png What's the issue exactly? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_fallback_chains_in_kkwiki.jpg And what's the issue here, other the general desire to reduce the number of variants, as suggested in T282525?Arystanbek added a comment.Jun 24 2021, 5:04 PM2021-06-24 17:04:30 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80 this screenshot represents in traslatewiki.net only allow translate to kk-cyrl not kk. We need translate to kk. Because many many reasons. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_6.pngWinston_Sung closed subtask T282520: Fix unnecessary "disable" variants from the Kazakh Wikipedia on mobile web as Resolved.Feb 28 2023, 6:02 PM2023-02-28 18:02:32 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung removed a subtask: T282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktop.Feb 28 2023, 6:43 PM2023-02-28 18:43:56 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung removed a subtask: T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter.Winston_Sung removed a subtask: T282520: Fix unnecessary "disable" variants from the Kazakh Wikipedia on mobile web.Feb 28 2023, 6:46 PM2023-02-28 18:46:06 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung removed a subtask: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants.Winston_Sung added a parent task: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants.Winston_Sung closed this task as Declined.Feb 28 2023, 6:53 PM2023-02-28 18:53:03 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung subscribed.Comment ActionsBased on the language status, it would be inappropriate to completely remove KkConverter. However, we could reduce the number of language variants in KkConverter, as it really caused confusion and inconvenience, We should T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter instead.Winston_Sung edited parent tasks, added: T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter; removed: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants.Feb 28 2023, 6:54 PM2023-02-28 18:54:16 (UTC+0)MuratKaribay added a comment.May 8 2023, 2:29 PM2023-05-08 14:29:11 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Amire80 @Winston_Sung @Aklapper the problem is not solved. I guess you need to remove the converter completely.Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 2:40 PM2023-05-08 14:40:25 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8833551, @MuratKaribay wrote: The problem is not solved. I guess you need to remove the converter completely. It is of course not solved for now as none of the changes and tasks are solved for now.Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 2:41 PM2023-05-08 14:41:18 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@MuratKaribay : Does the solution in T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter look good for you?MuratKaribay added a comment.May 8 2023, 3:00 PM2023-05-08 15:00:37 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8833569, @Winston_Sung wrote: @MuratKaribay : Does the solution in T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter look good for you? I'm afraid this won't solve the problem for unregistered wikipedia users. I propose to solve the problem of converter conflicts by deleting or disabling the converter.Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 3:17 PM2023-05-08 15:17:55 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8833628, @MuratKaribay wrote: I'm afraid this won't solve the problem for unregistered wikipedia users. I propose to solve the problem of converter conflicts by deleting or disabling the converter. Could you provide some examples? As there seems to be something not responsible for the converter.MuratKaribay added a comment.May 8 2023, 3:39 PM2023-05-08 15:39:20 (UTC+0)Comment Actions@Winston_Sung you can open the article as incognito and see how unregistered users see the conversion. For example, in this article, the original name of the city New-York is converted to Cyrillic.Winston_Sung moved this task from Backlog to Converter-specific on the MediaWiki-Language-converter board.May 8 2023, 3:49 PM2023-05-08 15:49:26 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8833829, @MuratKaribay wrote: You can open the article as incognito and see how unregistered users see the conversion. For example, in this article, the original name of the city New-York is converted to Cyrillic. That's actually T39617: Do not convert text marked as being in another language with a lang attribute .Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 3:54 PM2023-05-08 15:54:28 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsProvide a current workaround here: https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Lang?action=edit Template:Lang{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|kk|<span lang="{{{1}}}" xml:lang="{{{1}}}">{{{2}}}</span>|<span lang="{{{1}}}" xml:lang="{{{1}}}">-{{{{2}}}}-</span>}}<noinclude>{{Doc}}</noinclude>MNeisler removed MNeisler as the assignee of this task.May 8 2023, 3:57 PM2023-05-08 15:57:29 (UTC+0)MNeisler subscribed.MNeisler unsubscribed.Amire80 added a comment.May 8 2023, 5:06 PM2023-05-08 17:06:59 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsI remember fixing some things several months ago. What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see?Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 5:19 PM2023-05-08 17:19:27 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8834166, @Amire80 wrote: What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see? Probably referring to https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-cyrl / https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-kz if the browser language preference is set to kk-KZ .Amire80 added a comment.May 8 2023, 5:42 PM2023-05-08 17:42:50 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8834236, @Winston_Sung wrote: In T268143#8834166, @Amire80 wrote: What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see? Probably referring to https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-cyrl / https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-kz if the browser language preference is set to kk-KZ . Does it actually happen? I managed to set it to "kk", and I don't see a problem. How can I set it to "kk-kz"? In the preferences, I can only choose "Kazakh", which sets it to "kk".Winston_Sung added a comment.May 8 2023, 5:56 PM2023-05-08 17:56:13 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8834335, @Amire80 wrote: How can I set it to "kk-kz"? In the preferences, I can only choose "Kazakh", which sets it to "kk". Then that might be something about user content language variant preference.Amire80 added a comment.May 8 2023, 6:24 PM2023-05-08 18:24:25 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsThat's what I wonder about: How can anyone set that preference? Most people don't bother changing their browser's language preference at all, and even if I try to do it, I can't.mukhamejan subscribed.Oct 30 2023, 3:41 PM2023-10-30 15:41:55 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#8834476, @Amire80 wrote: That's what I wonder about: How can anyone set that preference? Most people don't bother changing their browser's language preference at all, and even if I try to do it, I can't. Hello! It's dependent on chosed language of phone exactly. Some of users can use Kazakh interface, and some of them Russian. Cuz of this that problem appears.Winston_Sung edited parent tasks, added: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants; removed: T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter.Nov 7 2023, 2:40 PM2023-11-07 14:40:32 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung reopened this task as Open.Nov 7 2023, 11:49 PM2023-11-07 23:49:27 (UTC+0)gerritbot added a comment.Nov 7 2023, 11:49 PM2023-11-07 23:49:41 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 972474 had a related patch set uploaded (by Winston Sung; author: Amir Sarabadani): [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Drop Kazakh language variants https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972474gerritbot added a project: Patch-For-Review.Nov 7 2023, 11:49 PM2023-11-07 23:49:42 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 972472 had a related patch set uploaded (by Winston Sung; author: Amir Sarabadani): [mediawiki/core@master] Drop language coverter for Kazakh https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972472Winston_Sung mentioned this in T350684: Disable cyrillic-latin-arab converter in Kazakh Wikipedia.Nov 7 2023, 11:50 PM2023-11-07 23:50:48 (UTC+0)gerritbot added a comment.Nov 11 2023, 2:12 AM2023-11-11 02:12:02 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 972472 had a related patch set uploaded (by Ladsgroup; author: Amir Sarabadani): [mediawiki/core@master] Remove language coverter for Kazakh https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972472jhsoby subscribed.Nov 15 2023, 10:48 AM2023-11-15 10:48:09 (UTC+0)gerritbot added a comment.Nov 20 2023, 4:02 PM2023-11-20 16:02:27 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 972474 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Remove Kazakh (kk) language variants https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972474gerritbot added a comment.Nov 20 2023, 4:02 PM2023-11-20 16:02:32 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 972472 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/core@master] Remove language coverter for Kazakh https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972472ReleaseTaggerBot added a project: MW-1.42-notes (1.42.0-wmf.7; 2023-11-28).Nov 20 2023, 5:00 PM2023-11-20 17:00:38 (UTC+0)Ladsgroup closed this task as Resolved.Nov 21 2023, 1:30 PM2023-11-21 13:30:45 (UTC+0)Ladsgroup claimed this task.Ladsgroup subscribed.Comment ActionsThis will be deployed in a week or two.Winston_Sung mentioned this in T282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktop.Nov 21 2023, 1:40 PM2023-11-21 13:40:56 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung mentioned this in T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter.gerritbot added a comment.Nov 21 2023, 2:41 PM2023-11-21 14:41:01 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 976237 had a related patch set uploaded (by Subramanya Sastry; author: Subramanya Sastry): [mediawiki/services/parsoid@master] Remove kk lang conversion tests: kk converter no longer exists https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/976237gerritbot added a comment.Nov 21 2023, 3:07 PM2023-11-21 15:07:05 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 976237 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/services/parsoid@master] Remove kk lang conversion tests: kk converter no longer exists https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/976237Winston_Sung reopened this task as In Progress.Nov 21 2023, 3:07 PM2023-11-21 15:07:23 (UTC+0)Comment Actions(incomplete)Ladsgroup closed this task as Resolved.Nov 21 2023, 3:23 PM2023-11-21 15:23:31 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung reopened this task as In Progress.Nov 21 2023, 3:39 PM2023-11-21 15:39:53 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsTo-do: Post-deployment checks / QA Check if there're any issues caused by the removal of KkConverter Consider remove user language options based on F33918336 Winston_Sung removed a project: Patch-For-Review.Nov 21 2023, 3:40 PM2023-11-21 15:40:48 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung added projects: I18n, MediaWiki-Internationalization.Ladsgroup closed this task as Resolved.Nov 21 2023, 5:23 PM2023-11-21 17:23:28 (UTC+0)Ladsgroup removed projects: MediaWiki-Internationalization, I18n.Comment ActionsThis is resolved, create a separate task for follow ups. Also the second one shouldn't be done, we decided that lang variants are going to stay, just lang conversion is being removed.Ladsgroup added a comment.Nov 21 2023, 5:24 PM2023-11-21 17:24:03 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsWe also don't keep tasks open "just in case things go wrong". If things go wrong, then it can be re-opened.Winston_Sung added a comment.Nov 21 2023, 5:57 PM2023-11-21 17:57:05 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#9350235, @Ladsgroup wrote: This is resolved, create a separate task for follow ups. I thought we close tasks when deployed instead of merged?Winston_Sung added a comment.Nov 21 2023, 5:57 PM2023-11-21 17:57:14 (UTC+0)Comment Actions In T268143#9350235, @Ladsgroup wrote: Also the second one shouldn't be done, we decided that lang variants are going to stay, just lang conversion is being removed. Emmm... I thought the report is kind of also about the overwhelming language options for kk-* ?Bugreporter mentioned this in T351896: Introduce a proper Kazakh language converter.Nov 23 2023, 3:25 PM2023-11-23 15:25:42 (UTC+0)Winston_Sung mentioned this in T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants.Nov 23 2023, 3:41 PM2023-11-23 15:41:49 (UTC+0)gerritbot added a comment.Nov 27 2023, 10:08 PM2023-11-27 22:08:58 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 977788 had a related patch set uploaded (by Subramanya Sastry; author: Subramanya Sastry): [mediawiki/vendor@master] Bump wikimedia/parsoid to 0.19.0-a7 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/977788gerritbot added a project: Patch-For-Review.Nov 27 2023, 10:08 PM2023-11-27 22:08:59 (UTC+0)gerritbot added a comment.Nov 28 2023, 12:46 AM2023-11-28 00:46:50 (UTC+0)Comment ActionsChange 977788 merged by jenkins-bot: [mediawiki/vendor@master] Bump wikimedia/parsoid to 0.19.0-a7 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/977788Winston_Sung removed a project: Patch-For-Review.Dec 27 2023, 4:53 PM2023-12-27 16:53:32 (UTC+0)Log In to Comment
Please completely remove the Converter of the Kazakh language, because of so many bugs and very low usage statistics. Delete locales:
kk-arab, kk-cyrl, kk-latn kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr
Only need kk locale
Migrate all translations ...../kk-cyrl to ...../kk
Related topics:
Are you sure it should be completely removed?
I visited Almaty for the Turkic Wikimedia Conference in 2012, and there was a Kazakh man from China who spoke very passionately about the need for a converter to Latin and showed me many Chinese websites in Kazakh in the Arabic script. (I know Russian, but he doesn't, so somebody had to translate what he said from Kazakh to Russian for me.) I'd like to see a wider community discussion about this, with participation from people who use different alphabets.
Does the mere existence of a converter get in the way of doing something?
The reason for low usage is not necessarily that people don't need it. The reason may be that the feature is difficult to use and people aren't aware of it. This can be fixed by better design. And generally, how do you know that the usage is low? Do you have statistics?
And what are the bugs in the converter? Perhaps they can be fixed?
Finally, I've heard on the news that Kazakhstan plans a transition to a new Lаtin alphabet, so a transliterator may be needed in a major way soon.
I do agree, however, that the extra locales (kz, tr, cn) can probably be removed, and that alphabets are enough, as suggested in T250604, although I'm not sure that it's easy to do. It's possible that they have to be preserved in some way for
In T268143#6632830, @Amire80 wrote: Are you sure it should be completely removed? I visited Almaty for the Turkic Wikimedia Conference in 2012, and there was a Kazakh man from China who spoke very passionately about the need for a converter to Latin and showed me many Chinese websites in Kazakh in the Arabic script. (I know Russian, but he doesn't, so somebody had to translate what he said from Kazakh to Russian for me.) I'd like to see a wider community discussion about this, with participation from people who use different alphabets. Does the mere existence of a converter get in the way of doing something? The reason for low usage is not necessarily that people don't need it. The reason may be that the feature is difficult to use and people aren't aware of it. This can be fixed by better design. And generally, how do you know that the usage is low? Do you have statistics? And what are the bugs in the converter? Perhaps they can be fixed? Finally, I've heard on the news that Kazakhstan plans a transition to a new Lаtin alphabet, so a transliterator may be needed in a major way soon. I do agree, however, that the extra locales (kz, tr, cn) can probably be removed, and that alphabets are enough, as suggested in T250604, although I'm not sure that it's easy to do. It's possible that they have to be preserved in some way for
Hello. Wikipedia in China banned. I have started a community consensus: https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Уикипедия:Форум/Техникалық#Түрлендіргіш/Converter. Also discussed about this many times in our community's telegram group.
Page Views by country: https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/kk.wikipedia.org/reading/page-views-by-country/normal|map|last-month|~total|monthly
Too many bugs:
All these bugs can be addressed. I'll report them separately.
The fact that Wikipedia is banned in China is also not a reason to remove the converter completely. The ban may be lifted in the future.
@Amire80, as you wrote earlier, the converter has a number of problems
The converter contains the code Cyrl2Latn and Latn2Cyrl due to two simultaneous conversions, foreign words are translated into Cyrillic, this causes problems
For example, This is how registered Wikipedia users see
And not registered users
As you can see, New York City was transliterated as Неу Ёрк Цітy this should not be due to such problems and the converter is not needed
It would be nice to remove Latn2Cyrl as it transliterates everything written in Latin letters
Yes, we would like to remove the locales kk-KZ, kk-CN and kk-TR since if there are alphabets why then countries
And I would also like to consider adding an offline converter that translates only the content of the article that does not affect the interface
@Amire80 And also the Arabic script of the Kazakh also has errors when converting the digit is translated into old Arabic numerals and the Kazakhs of China use modern Arabic numerals
If possible, I would like to make corrections since I know all 3 alphabets of Kazakh
@Amire80 who can solve these problems? @MuratKaribay also found some critical problems. We receive complaints from users every day but we don't have permission to remove this useless converter. I'm so grateful for your help!
In T268143#6633068, @MuratKaribay wrote: And also the Arabic script of the Kazakh also has errors when converting the digit is translated into old Arabic numerals and the Kazakhs of China use modern Arabic numerals
And also the Arabic script of the Kazakh also has errors when converting the digit is translated into old Arabic numerals and the Kazakhs of China use modern Arabic numerals
Hi, could you file separate, dedicated tasks about problems, please (if not existing yet) by following https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug ? Thanks a lot! (See also T199895: Arabic transliteration in Kazakh and Kurdish which might be related.)
@Amire80: Should either this task remain open, or should T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter be open? I don't think both can be done?
Leave it open. It's probably not going to be removed entirely, but at the moment it does have several important bugs, and this task here has good documentation of these. I'll open new tasks separately soon (like, within a month), and close this one.
@Amire80: Would you open these separate task? Thanks!
In T268143#6632941, @Arystanbek wrote: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Errors_in_Kazakh_Wikipedia_(Mobile_view)_-_2.jpg
Task: T282520: Fix unnecessary "disable" variants from the Kazakh Wikipedia on mobile web
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Langvars.png
Task: T282525: Consider reducing the number of Kazakh language variants
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors.jpg
Task: T282526: Improve the display of the Kazakh language variants on the desktop
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_2.jpg
Task: T282528: Make translation to languages with a converter more user-friendly in the Translate extension
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_3.jpg
Same as T282526.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_4.jpg
Task: T282527: Untranslated CentralNotice banners get unnecessarily converted by the language converter
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_5.png
This is not a bug. The article used a Latin c instead of the Cyrillic с. I fixed it.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_6.png
What's the issue exactly?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MediaWiki_fallback_chains_in_kkwiki.jpg
And what's the issue here, other the general desire to reduce the number of variants, as suggested in T282525?
@Amire80 this screenshot represents in traslatewiki.net only allow translate to kk-cyrl not kk. We need translate to kk. Because many many reasons. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Converter_errors_6.png
Based on the language status, it would be inappropriate to completely remove KkConverter.
However, we could reduce the number of language variants in KkConverter, as it really caused confusion and inconvenience,
We should T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter instead.
@Amire80 @Winston_Sung @Aklapper the problem is not solved. I guess you need to remove the converter completely.
In T268143#8833551, @MuratKaribay wrote: The problem is not solved. I guess you need to remove the converter completely.
The problem is not solved. I guess you need to remove the converter completely.
It is of course not solved for now as none of the changes and tasks are solved for now.
@MuratKaribay :
Does the solution in T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter look good for you?
In T268143#8833569, @Winston_Sung wrote: @MuratKaribay : Does the solution in T250604: Remove language variants kk-cn, kk-kz, kk-tr from the Kazakh language converter look good for you?
I'm afraid this won't solve the problem for unregistered wikipedia users. I propose to solve the problem of converter conflicts by deleting or disabling the converter.
In T268143#8833628, @MuratKaribay wrote: I'm afraid this won't solve the problem for unregistered wikipedia users. I propose to solve the problem of converter conflicts by deleting or disabling the converter.
Could you provide some examples? As there seems to be something not responsible for the converter.
@Winston_Sung you can open the article as incognito and see how unregistered users see the conversion. For example, in this article, the original name of the city New-York is converted to Cyrillic.
In T268143#8833829, @MuratKaribay wrote: You can open the article as incognito and see how unregistered users see the conversion. For example, in this article, the original name of the city New-York is converted to Cyrillic.
You can open the article as incognito and see how unregistered users see the conversion. For example, in this article, the original name of the city New-York is converted to Cyrillic.
That's actually T39617: Do not convert text marked as being in another language with a lang attribute .
Provide a current workaround here:
https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Lang?action=edit
{{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|kk|<span lang="{{{1}}}" xml:lang="{{{1}}}">{{{2}}}</span>|<span lang="{{{1}}}" xml:lang="{{{1}}}">-{{{{2}}}}-</span>}}<noinclude>{{Doc}}</noinclude>
I remember fixing some things several months ago. What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see?
In T268143#8834166, @Amire80 wrote: What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see?
What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see?
Probably referring to https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-cyrl / https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-kz if the browser language preference is set to kk-KZ .
In T268143#8834236, @Winston_Sung wrote: In T268143#8834166, @Amire80 wrote: What problem do you still see? Particularly, what problem do you think unregistered users still see? Probably referring to https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-cyrl / https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Нью-Йорк?variant=kk-kz if the browser language preference is set to kk-KZ .
Does it actually happen? I managed to set it to "kk", and I don't see a problem. How can I set it to "kk-kz"? In the preferences, I can only choose "Kazakh", which sets it to "kk".
In T268143#8834335, @Amire80 wrote: How can I set it to "kk-kz"? In the preferences, I can only choose "Kazakh", which sets it to "kk".
How can I set it to "kk-kz"? In the preferences, I can only choose "Kazakh", which sets it to "kk".
Then that might be something about user content language variant preference.
That's what I wonder about: How can anyone set that preference? Most people don't bother changing their browser's language preference at all, and even if I try to do it, I can't.
In T268143#8834476, @Amire80 wrote: That's what I wonder about: How can anyone set that preference? Most people don't bother changing their browser's language preference at all, and even if I try to do it, I can't.
Hello! It's dependent on chosed language of phone exactly. Some of users can use Kazakh interface, and some of them Russian. Cuz of this that problem appears.
Change 972474 had a related patch set uploaded (by Winston Sung; author: Amir Sarabadani):
[mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Drop Kazakh language variants
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972474
Change 972472 had a related patch set uploaded (by Winston Sung; author: Amir Sarabadani):
[mediawiki/core@master] Drop language coverter for Kazakh
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/972472
Change 972472 had a related patch set uploaded (by Ladsgroup; author: Amir Sarabadani):
[mediawiki/core@master] Remove language coverter for Kazakh
Change 972474 merged by jenkins-bot:
[mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Remove Kazakh (kk) language variants
Change 972472 merged by jenkins-bot:
This will be deployed in a week or two.
Change 976237 had a related patch set uploaded (by Subramanya Sastry; author: Subramanya Sastry):
[mediawiki/services/parsoid@master] Remove kk lang conversion tests: kk converter no longer exists
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/976237
Change 976237 merged by jenkins-bot:
(incomplete)
To-do:
This is resolved, create a separate task for follow ups. Also the second one shouldn't be done, we decided that lang variants are going to stay, just lang conversion is being removed.
We also don't keep tasks open "just in case things go wrong". If things go wrong, then it can be re-opened.
In T268143#9350235, @Ladsgroup wrote: This is resolved, create a separate task for follow ups.
This is resolved, create a separate task for follow ups.
I thought we close tasks when deployed instead of merged?
In T268143#9350235, @Ladsgroup wrote: Also the second one shouldn't be done, we decided that lang variants are going to stay, just lang conversion is being removed.
Also the second one shouldn't be done, we decided that lang variants are going to stay, just lang conversion is being removed.
Emmm... I thought the report is kind of also about the overwhelming language options for kk-* ?
Change 977788 had a related patch set uploaded (by Subramanya Sastry; author: Subramanya Sastry):
[mediawiki/vendor@master] Bump wikimedia/parsoid to 0.19.0-a7
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/977788
Change 977788 merged by jenkins-bot: