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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Climatic regions of Argentina/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 06:23, 5 June 2016 [1].

Climatic regions of Argentina

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Nominator(s): Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:22, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the climate of the various regions in Argentina. Argentina possesses a wide variety of climatic regions ranging from subtropical in the north to subantarctic in the far south. In general, northern parts of the country are characterized by hot, humid summers with mild winters and feature highly seasonal precipitation. The centre has a temperate climate with hot summers and cool, drier winters. Patagonia in the south is most arid or semi–arid except in the extreme west where it receives abundant precipitation to support dense forests, and glaciers. The article has been promoted to GA back in February and I have done copyediting, fact checking, and addition of more info to improve the content. I have also checked the sources to see if they have been copied and I do not see any copying. I believe this article should be promoted to FA class. All are welcome to critique the article and make recommendations on improving it. As well, anyone is more welcome to edit it to improve it. Thanks! Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:22, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Important note: I will be busy during in the next 2 weeks but after April 25, I should be free. However, I will try to respond in a timely manner if I can. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Regiones_geograficas_arg.png: on what data source or existing map is this one based? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:54, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The file is based on the subdivisions mentioned by Federico Daus (please disregard this crossed out name) in this link. Though the description is in Spanish, the description for the regions is the closest to the map. However, I could not find any much information related to the climate of the Sierras Pampeanas so they were combined into the Cuyo and Northwest Argentina based on more commonly used definitions used by the various governmental organizations in Argentina (Minister of Interior and Public Works, Minister of Energy and Mining, and the National Weather Service). For example, the Sierra Pampeanas located in San Luis Province would fall into the Cuyo region since San Luis Province is generally considered to be part of that region while in La Rioja, Catamarca and Tucuman, they are in Northwest Argentina). For Argentine Antarctica and the South Atlantic Islands (Falklands and South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands), these areas are disputed and the standard is to mention the climate of undisputed areas. Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Sainsf

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Great to see this article here. Will return shortly to have a close look and add comments. Cheers, Sainsf <^>Feel at home 09:07, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • There are a lot of duplinks. You can fix them using this tool.
  • After reading the entire article to see if there are any duplicate links. I think there is one link per term on this page. Check to see and if not, I can fix it. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:17, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
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  • characterized by hot, humid summers with mild drier winters should read "mild, drier"
  • a thick Yungas Jungle I think it should be "the" instead of "a", else it seems as if Yungas is a variety of jungle and not a proper noun.
  • Fixed it, see revision. Changed the phrase to "the". Also, in the section on Northwest Argentina, I also clarified that "a thick jungle" is "the thick Yungas jungle". Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:59, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • a wide variety of climatic regions ranging from subtropical with hot weather in the north to subantarctic in the far south Should be a wide variety of climatic regions, ranging from the hot subtropical region to the north to the (cold, I guess?) subantarctic to the far south.
  • Fixed a few more commas, please check here.
  • Yes. I checked the revision. Those commas were needed. Ssbbplayer (talk) 13:47, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • in which the extension of the country along with its relief features determines the different varieties in the main climate types Could this be clearer? What does "extension of the country" mean? Should it be "along" instead of "along with"?
  • The Argentine government source, which did said the extension of the country would refer to the fact that Argentina is a large country, stretching from 22o to 55oS. I think it refers to the diversity in its latitudinal spread, which implies vast differences in the amount of insolation these places receive. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the explanation, I understand now. I would suggest a rephrase like: In general, Argentina has four main climate types: warm, moderate, arid, and cold; the relief features and the latitudinal extent of the country account for the variety in the climate. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 05:10, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I changed it. I think that the sentence you recommended is the most clear if placed in that order. Ssbbplayer (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link tropical, temperate, Atlantic Ocean
  • Done. I also removed one link to temperate climate since temperate is redirected to temperate climate. For the Atlantic Ocean, it was already linked. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Pampas is mostly flat area "area is redundant
  • rain–bearing clouds from the Pacific Ocean from coming in You can say "the Andes obstruct the path of the rain-bearing clouds from the Pacific Ocean" Repeat in main text.
  • while its latitude puts it in a band of the subtropical high pressure belt, keeping this region dry. Could not understand
  • It refers to the area being located in the subtropical ridge, being close to 30oS. As well, it is trying to indicate that both the Andes and its latitudinal location are factors in keeping the Cuyo region dry. I changed the sentence a bit to clarify it. I hope it is more clearer with this revision. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:29, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • air masses and frontal storms Links?
  • Done. I added links to these two. For frontal storms, it refers to precipitation by convection when warm air meets cold air. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its climate is classified as a temperate to cool temperate climate "Its climate is classified as temperate to cool temperate with the..."
  • What is a precipitation gradient? It is recommended to include brief explanations in-line so that the reader does not have to chase links.
  • Since gradient refers to a function that relates to a change in a variable with respect to a particular location, I added a brief description saying that it is the "rate of change in mean annual precipitation in relation to a particular location". As well, I added a link to gradient since it is a mathematical term. Ssbbplayer (talk) 21:20, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • through favouring evaporation "by", not "through"
Mesopotamia
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  • Link subtropical, Misiones Province and other provinces you come across later
  • Done for first two. Will add in links to other provinces if they are in the main text and not in the notes section given that most readers would see the link first in the main text. Done. I added links to any province I come across as I read through the article. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:50, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • even in winter, making it exposed to moist easterly winds spaced endash, not comma
You can see this. I have added the spaces. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 05:16, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because of this "Hence"
  • in the summer than in the winter "the"s not needed
  • Done. Removed the two "the"'s from that section. Ssbbplayer (talk) 21:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • falls in the form produced by convective thunderstorms simply say "is caused by convective thunderstorms" in this and the line following the next.
  • I changed it to that format and a similar variant of that for fall. Ssbbplayer (talk) 21:37, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is a frontal system and an air mass?
  • For the frontal system. It refers to extratropical cyclones or those large scale storms that occur in midlatitudes, similar to the storms that parts of Canada and USA experience during winter. I changed it to match more what the source says. For air mass, would a link be fine? Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:36, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Chaco
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  • Link desert here as well if you link it in the lead
  • Can you explain or link high pressure system, pressure gradient, cold front, thermal amplitude?
  • Done. I added links to the first 3 and for the last, I explained thermal amplitude. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:59, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Formosa Province
Northwest
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  • divided into 2 main types "Two" is better
  • South Atlantic and South Pacific highs Is it "Highs" or "highs"?
  • In this case, it is lowercase h since it refers to the high pressure systems in general rather than the name which would be capitalized. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:54, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The area further west is the Puna region Is "Puna region" linked elsewhere before?
  • Yes. It is in the lead sentence. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:54, 18 April 2016 (UTC) Nope. Since it was only linked in the lead, it would make sense to link it in the section. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Cuyo
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  • The Andes prevent rain–bearing hyphen, not endash.
Pampas
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  • What is a sierra and a nortes?
  • That was a mistake. It should have been hills and I changed it. Also for norte, I found the definition of it with this edit. It is a gentle wind from the northeast that brings hot, humid and muggy conditions (with cloud cover) to the Pampas. It is the wind that brings hot waves. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:47, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The climate of the Pampas is characterized as being temperate and humid with no dry season No need to include "characterized as being"

Thanks for your efforts. A few more comments: Sainsf <^>Feel at home 05:29, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is insolation linked once in the lead and once in the main article, at first mention? I think it is a term that deserves a link or an explanation.
  • I fixed it and added a link. The insolation term did not appear in the lead but did appear in Chaco (first paragraph), Northwest Argentina (on the paragraph related to the Puna region) and Patagonia (first section on general climatic influences). Ssbbplayer (talk) 18:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I saw the term "adiabatically" in "Patagonia". Please see that this is linked at first mention in the lead (if it is there) and in the main article.
  • The term adiabatically or adiabatic is not in the lead sentence. The term first appears in the Precipitation section for Northwest Argentina and refers to the Lapse rate specifically where temperature changes as it ascends or descends a steep mountain. However, to clarify this, I linked adiabatically to adiabatic process and put (Lapse Rate) with a brief description in brackets for the term related to meteorology. Ssbbplayer (talk) 18:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • A little copyedit in "Patagonia". Check here.
  • It is fine. None of the meanings of the sentences were changed. Ssbbplayer (talk) 18:22, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, thanks for your efforts. I don't see any more issues with the prose, so Support. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 04:34, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • I will have to wait until the source review is also done. I think the majority of them are freely accessible (one can access the full text of publication) with the exception of most book sources where only a preview is available. I did edited the references for more accessible sources if possible. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:28, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Sainsf: I have checked the sources for Patagonia to see if I am missing any info. I realized that I removed information related to sunshine (contains info stating that it is one of the cloudiest regions in Argentina and has one of the cloudiest places in the world by average annual sunshine hours) and I have restored it (albeit differently with a general overview). Could you check for the prose? Thanks. I will not add anything new unless otherwise stated. Ssbbplayer (talk) 17:42, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ssbbplayer: I have done some c/e, which you can see here. What is "possible" sunshine? Also, have you introduced any new provinces that were not linked earlier? Thanks for adding the information. Sainsf <^>Feel at home 04:13, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • After searching Río Negro, Neuquén, and Tierra del Fuego Province were previously linked before this but Santa Cruz was not so I fixed that. Percent possible sunshine is the percentage of thereotical sunshine a place receives. Hence, having 60% possible sunshine means that it receives 60% of the theoretical amount of sunshine a place receives in which the theoretical amount is if there were no cloudy, foggy or any days that obstruct sunshine. I have added a note to that as a definition. Ssbbplayer (talk) 04:38, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Mike Christie

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Oppose. I've made some notes below; the main reason for my oppose is prose issues. I'll be happy to revisit once these points are addressed and a copyedit is done.

  • Any reason the article is not titled "Climate of Argentina"? Not a problem for FAC, just curious -- it seems a simpler and more straightforward title and would presumably cover exactly the same ground.
  • @Mike Christie: This article was created after the parent article, Climate of Argentina became too large and had excessive detail during its expansion back in November 2015 when I requested copyediting with the Guild of Copyeditors. The climate of Argentina article has a similar structure to Climate of India in which it has a separate article called Climatic regions of India since it is the only featured article related to the climate of a country. The climate of Argentina article is more broad and includes topics such as climate change and climate related natural disasters (similar to climate of India), which is off topic in this article. Ssbbplayer (talk) 01:43, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course I should have checked to see if that article existed before commenting. You're right, there's a lot more in that article that isn't needed here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:31, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Everything in the lead is supposed to be in the body too, since the lead is a summary of the article, but the article doesn't have an introductory section that lays out the range of climatic regions in Argentina. I think you need a short section - probably a single paragraph -- before the Mesopotamia section in the body. This would probably allow you to shorten the lead a little, and would also let you get rid of the citation on the first paragraph of the lead. Similarly, each regional section should give the details of the region itself, just as you do in the lead.
  • I think I did lay out the climate regions by specifying how much they are and why they were done in this way. It also helped removed the citation in the first paragraph of the lead. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:08, 3 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Struck; there are some prose issues with the paragraph you wrote which I'll revisit on another pass, but it does fix the problem I raised. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:44, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some prose issues: "throughout the year" twice in the same sentence; you say the vegetation transits but I think you mean it transitions; "its rugged topography results in the climate being diverse, which includes the cold and arid Puna region" is clumsy phrasing; "Its climate is classified as temperate to cool temperate climate" is repetitive; and "One defining characteristic are the strong winds" -- verb number problem. That's just from a scan of the lead.
  • @Mike Christie: I spotted those errors too. I fixed them in this edit. That transitioning one was the one I could not catch at all in the lead. Regarding the issue with "its rugged topography results in the climate being diverse, which includes the cold and arid Puna region", I just mentioned it that it is diverse and cut off everything after that (see edit). I think mentioning the Puna, Yungas, etc is redundant. Ssbbplayer (talk) 01:53, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The breakdown of the regions for the map doesn't match the breakdown for the article. That's not wrong in itself, but I think you need to make it clear to the reader at the start of the section on each region which parts of the map in the lead are included. E.g. I assumed "pampas" includes both the dry pampas and the Sierras Pampeanas, but apparently that's not the case.
  • I have uploaded two images that are more in line with this article with sources provided from each image (each of them permit usage as long as the source is attributed). I hope they are not deleted and I will wait tomorrow to see if they do not become deleted before putting them on. I think this would solve the major issue that has been lingering on for a while. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • More prose issues in the first paragraph of "Mesopotamia". The first two sentences don't precisely repeat each other, but they're very similar; can they be combined into a single sentence that reads a little more fluently? More repetition in "...and abundant rainfall throughout the year. Rainfall is abundant year round since..." -- surely this can be compressed a little?
  • This one was a difficult one. After checking the sources many times, I changed it to "Mesopotamia has a humid subtropical climate (Cfa according to the Köppen climate classification)". I think adding in the fact that it has no dry season, despite coming from a reliable source is misleading since there is a drying trend in winter in many locations (it is just not that pronounced). Check to see if the edit is fine for addressing this issues (I removed one reference but it was put back by a bot so disregard the removal of that reference). Ssbbplayer (talk) 01:53, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was confused by the Köppen abbreviations (Cfa, for example) until I followed the link; I'd suggest rephrasing this to something like "has a Köppen climate classification of Cfa, which means ..."
  • I wonder if this minor change makes more sense to readers who are unfamiliar with the Köppen abbreviations ? Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Summers ... are one of the most humid seasons" is odd phrasing; it means there are several seasons that are the most humid, and summer is one of them. I think you mean simply that "summer is the most humid season".
  • I fixed that issue. The source did mentioned that summer is one of the two most humid seasons in the region though it failed to mention the other season. Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:30, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Better, but the sentence gives the precipitation as if it were a measure of humidity. If the source says anything about how high the humidity gets, I'd quote that, otherwise say something like "with precipitation ranging from". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I checked the source. It did not mention humidity so I am sticking with "with precipitation ranging from" to clarify this and indicate the mm values refer to precipitation and nothing else. [2]. Ssbbplayer (talk) 21:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Similar to summer, most precipitation is caused by" -- needs to be rephrased; summer is not what fall precipitation is similar to; it's similar to the precipitation in summer.
  • The explanation of which provinces are in each region is relegated to a note. I wouldn't oppose over this, but I don't really see a good reason for it -- the reader is going to want to know what parts of the country fall into each region, so why not include that in the article text?
  • This issue is now fixed. For each region, there are few sentences that mention which parts of the country fall into each region. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not clear what you mean by positive water balance. I looked at the water balance article, and wasn't able to figure it out.
  • "In contrast, cold fronts are common during winter, leading to highly variable weather": doesn't this just repeat what was said earlier in this paragraph?
  • After a closer look, it is repetition. I have removed it since the previous sentence before "summers feature more stable weather ..." mentions cold fronts in general and how it is more frequent in winter. Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:22, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Consequentially, the vegetation differs": you mean "consequently".
  • "As moist air reaches the eastern slopes of the mountains, it rises and cools adiabatically (Lapse rate, which is the rate at which the temperature cools as altitude increases), leading to the formation of clouds that generate copious amounts of rain": the parenthesis doesn't seem to relate to the sentence around it.
  • This one was a challenging one. The parenthesis is used to define the term adiabatic but I have difficulty in explaining it in a meteorological context. Ssbbplayer (talk) 02:26, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like this is unchanged? The problem isn't with the definition; it's that the parenthesis doesn't explain why the lapse rate is relevant to defining "adiabatic". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:48, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Upon closer inspection, I removed this since it doesn't seem to relate to the sentence around it. I think the link to the term is sufficient enough since that page explains the meaning in detail. Ssbbplayer (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The eastern slopes of the mountains receives": verb number problem.

-- I'm going to stop here for now; the article has enough prose issues for me to oppose on those grounds. I haven't looked through the whole article yet, but if you copyedit, or get someone else to do it, please check the rest of the article too. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:55, 29 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck the points you've dealt with. No need to ping me on each reply, by the way; I have this page watchlisted. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:31, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am working on the issues related to the definition of the regions and the issue regarding the map right now. I just added a section that deals with the definition of the regions. I need to do a bit of research in this. So far, I could not find anything related to the Sierra Pampeanas in terms of climatic conditions, both in Spanish and English. The idea of mentioning which regions belong to the map is useful since I feel that the 6 regions (Pampas, Northwest, Cuyo, Patagonia, Mesopotamia, and Chaco) is more applicable than the map shown (e.g INDEC, and other Argentina government websites use 6 regions). I will let you know when I am done. Ssbbplayer (talk) 18:00, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, I'll keep an eye on this and comment again when you're through. A question: would it make more sense to have a map showing only the meteorological regions, not the geographic ones? As the lead image, at least, it seems that might be more useful to the reader. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:40, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The geographic ones are sufficient enough since they were divided on the basis of geographical, climatic, and cultural factors (as mentioned in one source). The meteorological one is not that good since much of the existing literature (and sources) are based on explaining the climatology of these geographical regions and not based on meteorological regions. I think right now, if someone can make a map based on the subdivisions that INDEC uses or based on these sources [5] and [6] and [7], that would be great. Much of the article is based on these subdivisions. We should ask the Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop for help on this. Unfortuantely, I could not find any info related to meteorological regions from both Servicio Meteorológico Nacional and Instituto Nacional de Tecnología Agropecuaria. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:06, 3 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck another point above. The only remaining point above is the fact that the descriptions of the regions in each section don't refer to the map, so the reader can't tell what areas in the map are in each region. In addition, I think you need an independent copyeditor to go through the whole article. Am I right in thinking that English is not your native language? It's extraordinarily difficult to get prose to FA standard when you are not a native speaker. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:47, 4 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
English is my native language. The poor prose is due to a lack of copyediting from others and the need to prioritize expansion first (unlike other well established articles). Normally, I focus on obtaining the crucial details first and then copyediting it later. This ensures that I am not missing any information and makes the review process easier since it is easier to copyedit rather than find more sources. The last thing I want is having statements that lack sources or missing crucial information since they requires more time than copyediting. I will ask the guild of copyeditors to help in this part. Ssbbplayer (talk) 00:13, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Can I respectfully suggest that you withdraw the nomination and get the copyediting done, and then resubmit? I think the content is in good shape, at least as far as I've read, and if you can get a copyedit done the article has a decent chance at being promoted to FA. We're talking about a third party copyedit, but the FAC is two months old -- I really think it would be best to withdraw, and renominate when you think it's ready. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:43, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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