Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramzi Najjar

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus with no prejudice against speedy renomination. Once it is decided who the article subject actually is, a future discussion might be better able to determine whether we should have that article. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:30, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ramzi Najjar[edit]

Ramzi Najjar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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other than his death, this Najjar (and it's previous iterations) are not notable and have received no meaningful coverage. Just a guy doing his job that died, nothing more. BEACHIDICAE🌊 22:43, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:23, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lebanon-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 07:23, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:47, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:47, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Run-of-the-mill author. A draft should speak for itself as to how the subject is notable. This article does not establish general notability or author notability. I have not checked the references because that is not necessary because the draft as written does not speak for itself. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:06, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Robert McClenon Can you please review the sources I have added after this nomination? This person is different from draft one as you've noted below. There are many more sources in Arabic language (see his Arabic Wikipedia page). Thanks. Störm (talk) 10:28, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - There are two run-of-the-mill authors with the same name, one living. See also Draft:Ramzi Najjar. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:06, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - This draft does not speak for itself in terms of establishing notability. There is a myth in Wikipedia that adding references is the key to acceptance of a draft. References are a necessary but not a sufficient condition. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:41, 28 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Most of the references are reports of his death. Others are interviews or passing mentions.

Delete - please delete page. Some Storm went in and changed the details from my name to another Ramzi Najjar who is deceased. 178.135.8.46 (talk) 08:45, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Robert McClenon (talk) 04:01, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - please delete page. Some Storm went in and changed the details from my name to another Ramzi Najjar who is deceased. 178.135.8.46 (talk) 08:47, 1 June 2021 (UTC) struck as an obvious duplicate of the entry made by 178.135.8.46 Meters (talk) 06:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC) [reply]

• Keep - easily passes WP:GNG. He was a notable figure in Arab world. With a simple search I found some additional sources [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. Thanks. Störm (talk) 15:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yet again, you've missed the point. These are all 1E. He died. There's no coverage before his death. BEACHIDICAE🌊 15:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't done WP:BEFORE and yet claiming there is no coverage before his death? I have no words for this. Störm (talk) 15:31, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Obituaries are not sufficient to establish WP:BIO notability. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I don't think BLP1E applies. It would apply if the death notices were because of some unusual way to die, but the obituaries instead detail a long and varied business and media career, which clearly surpasses 1E. I haven't looked closely at all the sources, because I have monolingual issues, but what I can see seems to be obituaries run by organizations to which he contributed, (a school, a magazine), so I'm not sure they're really independent. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 15:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment. Many are independent as summarized by User:Robert McClenon above. Störm (talk) 17:06, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I should change my assessment to Maybe Independent, but it doesn't matter because they are not significant. Many of them are not even obituaries, but only death reports. And he died the same number of times that most of us will eventually die. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:19, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - some interviews of Najjar - 02/04/2012 interview on MTV Lebanon, 03/04/12 radio interview, 30/05/12 interview on Al Arabiya, 11/04/12 radio interview, April 2012 interview on Al Yawm TV, a tribute to Najjar services by Voice of Lebanon, another tribute by MTV, funeral and much more coverage is available here. @Robert McClenon:, @Ohnoitsjamie: if they want to change their vote. Thanks. Störm (talk) 17:30, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• --Please delete as the person on the page is not Ramzi Najjar bur rather known as Ramsay Najjar or Ramzi Al-Najjar--
• --Please rename the page to Ramsay Najjar or Ramzi Al-Najjar--
• --Please note that Storm took over my page deleted my information as Ramzi Najjar Author and used it for Ramsay G. Najjar-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.135.11.120 (talk) 19:06, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a reason for delete, that's a reason for rename - if you can back this claim with reliable sources. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 18:44, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• All references are in the name of Ramsay Najjar or Ramzi Al-Najjar even in Arabic which is different from the page name Ramzi Najjar https://ramsaynajjar.com/en/home/
• Keep It passes WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Notable. --Wildhorse3 (talk) 19:07, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - found another, Ramsay Najjar, les mots pour arme (in French) published in L'Orient-Le Jour. Thanks. Störm (talk) 09:36, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete- Appreciate if you can do something as user Störm hijacked my page Ramzi Najjar and changed all information to a dead guy called Ramsay Najjar who is a different person obviously since the spelling of the name is not Ramzi Najjar. Now my knowledge panel is showing I am dead.
• Keep Meets WP:GNG. Also, the delete vote directly above me appears to be from the same person as an earlier delete vote from 178.135.8.46Jackattack1597 (talk) 22:30, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV. Obituaries do count towards significant coverage when they are unpaid, and widely reported in multiple media outlets beyond mere local news coverage. In this case the obituaries are detailed, in multiple languages, and reaching a large multi-national audience. All of this indicates significant coverage. These kinds of obituary announcement in media are reserved for notable people and are not routine. The typical business executive does not get this level of coverage when they die. Only significant individuals get this level of media coverage.4meter4 (talk) 13:27, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• To the IP user who has concerns of sourcing issues: If you're the article subject, you can contact Wikipedia through OTRS and verify your identity. Then an OTRS agent can post a verified claim from the article subject here, and that will be more effective. See Wikipedia:Contact us. For this article: a current ANI shows ongoing concerns with this article and I agree a closer look is necessary. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 13:05, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment to User:Missvain, User:Peter303x, and anyone else: There appear to be two run-of-the-mill authors with the same name, one of whom is living, and one of whom is recently deceased. This AFD is about the deceased person, and most of the references are passing mentions of the death of the person. There is also a draft about the living person, which I have also declined. It appears that User:Praxidicae agrees with me that neither person is biographically notable. If both people were notable, disambiguation would be necessary. It appears that there is continuing confusion due to the two persons with the same name. I hope that the confusion is innocent and not being stirred up on purpose. The closer will need to verify that editors taking part in this AFD understand that there are two people with the same name. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:15, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes I realized what is going on and that there are 2 people with the same name, but as it is right now, there are 4 KEEP votes here, so whether you or User:Praxidicae think it should be deleted, that just means we don't have consensus yet. Peter303x (talk) 08:58, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment to User:Peter303x - Yes, and User:Ohnoitsjamie also says to Delete. I agree that there isn't consensus at this point and probably won't be. Robert McClenon (talk) 12:20, 20 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.