Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Chantler (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Sources found during the discussion, especially book reviews, have convinced all editors to lean towards keeping. (non-admin closure) Toadspike [Talk] 08:20, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Chantler[edit]

Paul Chantler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

These sources cover the subject only in relation to his death, nothing more, as per my WP:BEFORE. Therefore, the article fails WP:BLP1E, which states, "Reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event.

Breakdown of cited sources:

• 1: https://podcastingtoday.co.uk/one-of-the-founders-of-podcast-radio-paul-chantler-has-died/ (Single Event fails WP:BLP1E)
• 2: https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1883531/BBC-radio-executive-Paul-Chantler-dead (Single Event fails WP:BLP1E)
• 3: https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17547788.bbc-wiltshire-celebrates-30th-birthday-three-decades-first-broadcast-1989/ (Interview type article, no coverage of the subject)
• 3: https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/tributes-paid-to-radio-exec-and-friend-of-premier-paul-chantler (Again single event tributes Fails WP:BLP1E)
• 4: https://radiotoday.co.uk/2024/03/friends-and-colleagues-pay-tribute-to-radio-executive-and-entrepreneur-paul-chantler/ (Fails WP:BLP1E)
• 5: https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/tributes-paid-after-death-of-influential-uk-radio-executive-304320/ (Again a single event fails WP:BLP1E). GrabUp - Talk 12:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Radio and United Kingdom. GrabUp - Talk 12:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I may be missing something, but these obit articles have been published as a result of his death - but it is *not* the event of his death that is the reason why the papers find this person notable enough to publish the article. For example one source states "He was one of radio’s most respected and popular characters". Evidently the coverage is not in the context of a single event. I do not see how WP:BLP1E applies. ResonantDis_tortion 16:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @ResonantDistortion, WP:BLP1E simply mentions “Reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event.” These sources are published in context of a single event which is his death! It is simple as that. You said “but it is *not* the event of his death that is the reason why the papers find this person notable enough to publish the article.” If you really think he is notable then cite some reliable sources with in-depth coverage of the subject. But these sources are just in the context of his death. GrabUp - Talk 16:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Grabup - no - it really is not that simple. You appear to be arguing a blanket statement that obituaries do not count towards notability. If I was to die tomorrow of a fairly common disease, I can assure you I would not get an editorial obituary in any publication. None of the cited obit coverage is published because the actual event of the subjects death is particularly newsworthy, but because of the accomplishments of the subject during the rather more sustained period of their life. There is an interesting discussion here which I suggest you review, [1], which includes a quote by the author of BLP1E, @Jclemens, that "but in no way, shape, or form is an obituary one event". For the record, I have no opinion on the notability of the subject nor the reliability of the sources - I am rather challenging the blanket assumption that (editorial) obituaries do not count towards notability. ResonantDis_tortion 02:39, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  All of the sources mentioned above, except one, are citing RadioToday’s report; they are not reporting independently. Additionally, the sources are filled with statements from connected individuals, tributes, and similar content. Do these types of obituaries count towards notability? The first source appears unreliable to me, as it lacks editorial details. Other sources are just repeating what others are saying. GrabUp - Talk 03:18, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:15, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete I agree with User:Grabup - the articles mainly say what a wonderful guy he was, but do not give the kind of information that would support notability. I noticed that some of the articles mentioned that he had co-authored a book (but none gave a title). I cannot find any publication by him nor his name in the biggest name authority file. Lamona (talk) 04:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Notable broadcaster presenting on well known local and national radio stations. J97736 (talk) 14:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  presented * the stations mentioned should surely explain his notability. J97736 (talk) 14:05, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 19:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I checked per the comment by Lamona, Chantler does appear to indeed be the author of several books; there has been some coverage. Including: Local Radio Journalism (1997; [2]); Essential Media Law (2022; [3]); Basic Radio Journalism (2003; [4]); Keep It Legal (2018, [5]); and JournoLists (2020; [6]). ResonantDis_tortion 19:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you, Resonant! I looked again (with the correct spelling of his name, oops!) and he does indeed have a number of published books, some of which are widely found in libraries, which is a kind of acknowledgment of importance. This puts him at or at least close to NAUTH, which makes this a keep. The books need to be added to the article. Also, for more sources ABOUT him, he does show up in G-Books, although I haven't had the time to dig through that. There could be more about him professionally. Lamona (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I have added a bibliography section to the article including the above citations with coverage of his works. I also added a further citation to another obit [7] which, while some of the text is indeed sourced to Radio Today, also includes additional editorial evidence of notability stating that "as well as working as a radio executive, Paul authored a number of important industry guides that outlined good practices in the audio world." All told - should be sufficient sourcing now in the article to push over the notability threshold. ResonantDis_tortion 19:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete : He's written a few books on radio journalism, but I can't find reviews of them. Career seems rather routine otherwise. The obituaries are fine, but I don't see notability. A senior programming director isn't terribly notable. Oaktree b (talk) 19:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• There are some reviews, and news coverage, of Chantlers books that are cited in the article, not a huge amount but certainly multiple - even if one of them is behind a paywall. As indicated above - there are further secondary sources stating significance of the works. ResonantDis_tortion 22:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Oaktree b I had the same reservations but as you can see above there are reviews of his books in some radio-related journals. I mainly changed my mind when I checked on WorldCat and his book "Essential radio journalism" is held in 1,532 libraries. That is the highest number of holdings (that I can find) for books with the subject heading "Radio journalism". This tells me that he has written the book on the topic. Lamona (talk) 00:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep The sources/the reviews above help prove notability, I've updated my !vote Oaktree b (talk) 23:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep: These reviews of his books are somewhat meeting notability. GrabUp - Talk 05:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Weakly. The emerging consensus appears correct. Passes on being a notable author, albeit in a limited domain. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 05:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.