Talk:England and Wales

Just so anyone under any other impression can be aware that the England and Wales are still a single entity in the judicial system

• (Law society of England and Wales)
• (Law Comission for England and Wales) (The Commission's offices are in London)
• (The Bar council) offices in - London

Average Earthman 17:15, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"The England and Wales team (often abbreviated simply as England)" - has anyone ever called the cricket team anything but plain "England"? The Board officially mentions Wales, yes, but not the team. 81.158.205.33 30 June 2005 13:46 (UTC)

No, no one's ever called it the England and Wales team, because it's not. It's the England & Wales Cricket Board (who look after cricket at all levels not just international) but the team is actually just England that is fielded. It's not the England and Wales team. Wales has no team, but Welsh players may join the England team. According the the ECB website: http://www.ecb.co.uk/fans/q-and-a/185,185,QA.html : "It's always been the England team that take the field right back to the first Test in 1887. Welsh players are accepted as playing for England as Wales has no international side as recognised by ICC." So I'm going to modify that paragraph. In fact, it might as well be removed. 193.130.85.60 10 March 2006 14:51 (UTC)

• Reword it to clarify, but don't blank the whole paragraph. --JW1805 (Talk) 16:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The rules are different at test level I believe. Numerous Scottish players have played for 'England' in test cricket in the past. I recently recall at least 1 Scots player who played for both the Scottish 1-day team AND the English 5-day team in fairly close succession, I'm fairly sure. Badgerpatrol 00:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS- 'There is, however, a Wales team that plays in some domestic competitions...'- is there an officially recognised Wales representative team? I have never heard of it, although I'm not a mad-keen cricket fan. The only Welsh domestic team I can name OTTOM head is Glamorgan. They are A welsh cricket team, but not THE Welsh cricket team. Badgerpatrol 00:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Historically and in common use the team is called "England" but since last summer there are a few instances of it being referred to as as England and Wales, so it's possible that this may pass into common usage in the future. There is also a "Welsh Cricket Association" (WCA) which is the Governing Body of Welsh Amateur Cricket, so the other possibility is of Wales developing a recognised international team. Indeed their constitution has as an aim: "(I) To arrange international matches, competitions and other fixtures as may from time to time be deemed advisable." See http://www.welshcricket.org/constitution.htm --Aroberts 08:46, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Having looked in depth at the ECWB's website, there seems to be a Wales team that occasionally plays limited-overs cricket (as far as I can see, their last game was against Notts in 2005 [1]). I have replaced the comment (slightly rephrased) in the text. Cheers, Badgerpatrol 15:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that team is actually the Wales Minor Counties team (i.e. those that aren't Glamorgan). They lost in the first round of the C&G trophy, which is normal. Average Earthman 16:02, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Erm.. if England and Wales is a state, and Scotland and Northern and Ireland are separate states, then what is United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

195.93.21.71 5 January 2006 21:50 (UTC)

The UK is a composite state in Public International Law terms, i.e. the whole is recognised as the nation for international purposes, but it is divided into constitutent law areas also somewhat confusingly called states. This distinction gives one a British nationality and a domicile in one of the states, and that unique law defines your status and capacities wherever you may travel in the world. David91 03:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that most would argue that Scotland and Wales are not states, since they are not sovereign- ie the individual governments of those territories do not have supreme authority. NI may be an exception, since I believe that (assuming, constitutionally speaking, that nominal supreme power lies with Brenda) her position as monarch of NI is separate from her position as Queen of the UK. The UK is a state; NI may be a state, Scotland, England and Wales (I suspect) are not states (assuming Wales is included in the United Kingdom in the first place!). I don't know about Man, the Channel Islands etc; they may be different. All very confusing. There are numerous experts on constitutional law in the UK (I am not one) on Wikipedia who may be able to clarify this, if you feel it's an important issue. Of course, if you can find an objective, reliable source that explicitly defines each of the home nations as separate states under international law, then put it back in! All the best, Badgerpatrol 03:08, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not something you can argue about. We are simply stating the law as it currently stands. The criterion is not, nor has it ever been, a question of sovereignty. This is a simple Conflict of Laws issue and it is not at all confusing to lawyers. I regret that lay people do get confused because of the multiple uses of words like "state". This is understandable. But I can assure you that the statement is completely correct in legal terms. Sadly, you are adding you own personal opinion on the page. I have placed a more complete explanation on English law. David91 03:13, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]