Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I really should have shut this down yesterday because it was turning petty fast, but by now it's very clear than no productive further conversation is going to happen.

• Just Step Sideways, "Commons is not a personal fap stash." was deliberately confrontational. You didn't need to phrase it that way to communicate that you thought the image was out of scope. You don't get to act surprised that someone you already have history with (by your own admission) got upset that you deliberately provoked them.
• Dronebogus, combining nominations generally isn't an issue, though it's also generally of questionable value. A note linking related discussions achieves the same effect. However, considering that this is someone you've had disputes with, it probably wasn't a good idea.
• I strongly suggest the two of you stop interacting. Just Step Sideways, there are plenty of other people (myself sometimes included) that nominate low-quality pornographic illustrations for deletion. The project won't suffer for you not nominating Dronebogus's uploads. Dronebogus, there are plenty of other people (myself sometimes included) that defend pornographic images on DR when they're within scope. The project won't suffer for you not contesting Just Step Sideway's nominations. I would be more than happy to put forth a formal interaction ban if either of you request, and I would also be more than happy to block either of you if you continue sniping at each other, but I hope that all of that is unnecessary.
• Finally, Just Step Sideway, I saw your user page message and I have to say that considering your behavior in this thread (which is, as best as I can recall, the only time I've ever heard of you), I suspect that the way you conduct yourself is at least 51% of why you encounter hostility on this project.

The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, we have a bit of history here, in that this is not the first time I have nominated poorly made cartoon porn either created or uploaded by this user for deletion Last time it was all deleted and I had hoped they wouldn't do it again, but it turned out they have been. That really neither here nor there, just some background. Today I nominated some more recent items, and I made a deliberate decision to nominate them individually, so each would be discussed on its own merits. Dronebogus decided to override me and retroactively bundle them all together on discussion at Commons:Deletion requests/File:Sanny and Tess orgasming 2.png. Is that ok? It feels to me like it is not ok. Just Step Sideways (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just going to point out one of the files they nominated is COM:INUSE on two sites, as well as their deliberately obnoxious response to a serious inquiry I made about off-wiki canvassing. Dronebogus (talk) 01:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user also enjoys being gratuitously rude and combative towards me in general: here and here (if you’re unaware their original username was Beeblebrox) Dronebogus (talk) 02:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I bundled them was because the original rationales were identical and the files were mostly the same. This is a situation that would typically result in a bundle nomination. Given the overall sloppiness of the request (see the aforementioned rudeness and INUSE violation) I viewed this as lack of concern and/or familiarity with procedure. I did not bundle two nominated files (the discussed file and another that had previously been nominated) because they were distinct cases from the rest, refuting JSS’s claim I’m trying to “derail” the nomination with the in-use file. I am more than willing to revert my decision if it was incorrect but I do not think it was unreasonable in light of the above circumstances. Dronebogus (talk) 02:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment from a passerby outsider: Does Commons not have an INVOLVED policy? At Commons:Deletion requests/File:Sanny and Tess nude.png, Dronebogus closed the request as "keep" despite being the uploader of the image back in 2022. On English Wikipedia this would be a completely invalid close to be speedily reverted. SnowFire (talk) 07:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I wouldn’t do that now but they probably would’ve been kept anyway FWIW. Dronebogus (talk) 10:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, it may be noted that Just Step Sideways announced he was opening his deletion requests in a Wikipediocracy thread expressly dedicated to catty whining about Dronebogus, which may go some way to explaining the bizarrely vituperative tone of his contributions to it. I have no opinion in re the drawings of pink-haired anime girls with big schlongs that said DR was created for, and my comments here are not intended to be construed as any endorsement or condemnation thereof.

I think it is somewhat disruptive of Dronebogus to close DRs for his own images, and the hentai he uploads seems like it is often out of scope, but it seems to me like it is also somewhat disruptive to follow someone around and needle them with snitty comments for months and months, so it would be nice if they could simply learn to live in harmony JPxG (talk) 10:00, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Saying it won’t make it happen Dronebogus (talk) 10:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I propose JSS is indefinitely blocked from Commons for off and on-wiki harassment and off-wiki canvassing, and I’ll accept a formal topic ban from closing involved deletion discussions or merging deletion discussions in general. Dronebogus (talk) 11:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think it’s also worth mentioning the timing of this DR, during an ongoing (as of this post) thread where I made numerous extremely critical remarks about Wikipediocracy. Dronebogus (talk) 11:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You want me banned because I don't think Commons should host shitty cartoon porn? This is not about your remarks at en.wp and it is not about the WPO thread that JPxG wrongly characterizes above, it is about images here on Commons and nothing else. Just Step Sideways (talk) 18:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Forgive me if I don’t believe anything you claim about WPO, especially since on your talk page you deliberately avoided mentioning that, yes, this was brought up on WPO. Dronebogus (talk) 20:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I would never stoop so low as to accuse a distinguished user as yourself of canvassing or harassment: just of being bizarrely vituperative and following Dronebogus around to needle him about stuff with pointlessly personal comments. I did not explicitly accuse you of catty whining, merely of posting in a Wikipediocracy thread created for the purpose of doing so, but if you insist on being pedantic about it, then yes, I will explicitly accuse you of catty whining as well. Please correct me if this is an inaccurate summary of your post:

  I just nominated a bunch of the worst of his recent garbage for deletion.

  I will not reproduce the rest of your comment, which is a completely deranged Qanon-tier implication about Dronebogus's character (if you have any actual evidence of this being true, why the hell are you giggling about it on WPO instead of immediately reporting it to T&S?) JPxG (talk) 21:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I assume he’s calling me a pedophile or something? Dronebogus (talk) 21:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I am indefinitely blocking the user for not being abel and not wanting to learn to follow Commons procedures for obtaining valid licenses for the pictures they upload in combination with a non-cooperative time consuming discussion style. --Kritzolina (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings, I tagged a few uploads by Lighthumormonger (talk · contribs) as "no permission" or copyright violations.

Unfortunately, LHM appears to be engaged in a deceptive practice of representing the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) and misrepresenting Commons policies and copyright guidelines.

This email exchange was cited as a grant of permission from "Intuitive Machines, Inc." to grant a public domain license to Commons for a specific photo. It grants no such license.

The original author of the email claims to be an "administrator of the Wikipedia Editors Guild" and a blurb appears to disclaim direct affiliation with WMF, but nevertheless, the respondent appears to believe that the WEG is the WMF, or a part thereof.

The requests from the author of the email discourage any claim of ownership on the photo in question. This seems to be a serious misrepresentation of our licensing and permissions. Perhaps we may discourage watermarking, but this is a bridge too far.

Lighthumormonger is not, as far as I'm aware, a member of COM:VRT or anyone directly responsible for obtaining licenses for media on Commons. It's not clear why this was a private exchange and not sent to VRT as is required by Commons policies. This sort of "third party arrangement" is something that VRT doesn't permit.

Meanwhile, on Metawiki, I had some exchange with this editor about the alleged "WEG" and its presence. These questions were not answered to my satisfaction, but who am I to judge? Elizium23 (talk) 10:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just trying to improve WP one edit at a time here. If Elizium23 would like to discuss any more with me about any of this, my Wikimedia user talk page is open to him for a 'mutually respectful' conversation anytime. Lighthumormonger (talk) 14:02, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Current evidence and discussions here on Commons include:

1. File talk:Odysseus-lander-at-30-degree-angle-on-moon.jpg
2. Commons:Deletion requests/File:Lunar-south-pole--with-malapert-a-crater.jpg
3. Commons:Deletion requests/File:Nasa--methalox-rocket-launch.jpg

Elizium23 (talk) 20:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this a little vendetta against me Elizium? You can delete whatever you want, and that's ok with me. I thought you told the Sysop over at Meta you didn't want any drama? Lighthumormonger (talk) 23:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing personal, mate, and I wouldn't describe this as "vendetta", but you do you.

You're an excessively polite and considerate writer and every communication you make exudes professional courtesy. Unfortunately for me, I scratched the surface of that façade and found only deception, falsifications and evasiveness. I've identified several situations where you've led people to believe the wrong thing, and these situations pertain to legal, copyright issues and issues that may concern the WMF themselves.

Unfortunately your case is difficult for most admins to correlate and track because you're spreading yourself across several wikis, and conducting off-wiki activities as well. I'm hoping to round up all the relevant evidence so that your case can be examined properly by someone with authority. So I'm just a middleman here.

Anyway, you asked me today to stay off your "user page" but since you're being evasive regarding exactly how to contact you, you'll need to clarify which pages you mean? Commons only? All your talk pages? Should I also avoid contacting your alleged "Wikipedia Editors Guild" email address at Yahoo? You've already pinged me against my express request to cease and desist (I thought I muted you, but it broke through anyway). If I want to delete more of your stuff in the future, you're cool with not knowing about that? Elizium23 (talk) 23:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever. Lighthumormonger (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, really, I hope y'all can understand my confusion, because you're directing me and others all over the place: your Commons talk page says you don't want to use it, and your User page on Meta says that your User talk page belongs to "The Wikipedia Editors Guild" and you're directing everyone else there. SO is that your personal page, or do you share it with other alleged WEG "admins"? You didn't want to discuss much on there, though, directing me to a seemingly personal freemail account: "light.humor(at)yahoo.com". Do you likewise share that account with the rest of your WEG buddies? I've got to admit that you designed a really cool official logo. It fooled the CEO of a space exploration company! Sadly, nobody is able to contact you at your parked domain "wikipediaeditorsguild.net". So how does one get ahold of you? Inquiring minds want to know. Elizium23 (talk) 23:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever. Please leave me alone. Delete whatever you want. I'm sure you will save the world from me. Lighthumormonger (talk) 00:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lighthumormonger: you are asking to be left alone, but you have not answered any of the substantive issues raised about possibly not obtaining adequate permissions for images, and about possible misrepresentation (remember that the name "Wikimedia" is trademarked). If there is something called the "Wikimedia Editors Group", and if the talk page on Meta that you apparently wish people to use in lieu of your talk page on Commons talks, frankly, rather mysteriously about that group, which it refers to in the first person plural.

You have stated that WMF is "aware" of this group, which implies that they are aware of you using their trademarked name. I, for one, find it very misleading for someone to create their own entity with "Wikimedia" in its name and tell outside parties that they are an "administrator" of that entity.

WMF is a large organization, with hundreds of employees, so it is unclear what you mean when you say that WMD is aware. At the very least, I'd like to see that clarified.

If you may be representing yourself in trying to obtain image licenses for Commons, or if you are misrepresenting that you have obtained a license that meets Commons' requirements when you have not, then that becomes legitimately a Commons issue. I suppose it is OK if you don't want further interaction with the person who raised the issue, but speaking as a Commons admin, the substance of this looks to me like at least a potentially real issue. - Jmabel ! talk 06:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did ping a couple reps from AffCom, including @Mehman (WMF), who responded to say that there was no record of WEG in his files, but also that WEG was not within scope of AffCom? So it's unsurprising that I contacted the wrong person again, and it doesn't prove that WMF is totally unaware of LHM and WEG, but Mehman, for his part, has disavowed awareness. It's also relevant for me to point out that LHM has a habit of tampering with talk pages and other people's comments, and has substantially edited what I put down on all those talk pages, and thus the contents and context of anyone's comments are not to be trusted without checking the revision histories. Thank you!

• example 1
• example 2
• example 3

Elizium23 (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jmabel, this guy has been following me around and pestering me for the last four days. I've grown tired of this. He has already taken it to the ANI board in the WikiMedia Meta section, and there he was told that they don't see an issue. He seems to be entirely fixated and obsessed in trying to cause me trouble. If you or anybody else here might like to discuss the copyright problems with me here in a reasonable fashion and not in an accusatory one, I would be happy to do so. This guy calls me the devil basically. I can't talk with him at all.

There is a certain quality of dialogue that Wales and Sanger defined as "Good Faith." I think that Jefferson and company defined it as "a presumption of innocence." I don't feel that Elizium has given any real chance for "Good Faith" to exist in our dialogue at all. He has continuously accused me of dishonesty of one form or another from start to finish. If you or somebody else here were willing to attempt to work with me starting with a presumption of innocence, I would certainly be quite happy to work with them.

I think that Elizium might do much better if he started off his dialogues with other editors based on a presumption of innocence, and not of guilt.

Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "following you around" is an accurate description. Sadly, when a disruptive editor feels harrassed and stalked, it's because they're bouncing all around creating problems in various areas, and someone needs to track all that down.

I first noticed LHM adding rather brazen Original Research to enwiki articles, and I noticed that they're brand-new to the topic area and a rather new account, as well. Then when I dug into the WEG situation at Meta, I found their non-responses to be evasive and disingenuous, so that's when I looked into those Commons uploads and found the really crazy bullshit that transpired off-wiki. Ironically he's back here, asking me to take the discussion off-wiki where it can't be seen by anyone else. I have nothing to say to LHM that shouldn't be seen in public.

I asked Meta admins to intervene there, but I felt like it was a waste of my time trying to produce diffs that show what an exceedingly kind and polite troll he is, because there was no substantial disruption on that particular wiki.

I can be an easygoing guy and the best way to get along with me here is by accepting criticism, being honest, following policy, owning up to any mistakes. If LHM would head-on address the issues we're raising and show good faith, I wouldn't have a problem working with them. But I feel like all we're seeing are smoke screens and chaff defenses, so yeah, I've been tenacious about it. Elizium23 (talk) 16:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I declined the Meta request as there was nothing to from sysops (and for the reasons you mentioned). --SHB2000 (talk) 01:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh so I guess I'm not the devil after all, I'm just a lowly "troll," thank you my friend for the 'promotion.' Surely I must be "innocent" now. Golly, gee, wiz! Please leave me alone. Off-wiki, On-wiki.... sometimes a truly meaningful conversation can only be held in true privacy. At least that's my belief. If you are afraid of true privacy Elizium, I apologize. What is it that you are afraid of that I might do to you in a private email conversation? Slip you a Mickey or something? Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - )   16:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Elizium, I have told you multiple times, if you ever truly wanted to get in touch with me, you can do it at the Yahoo address. The offer remains fully open to you (or to anyone else for that matter). I don't know if this is the right place for you to be "monologing with me," but if you ever really wanted to truly dialogue with me, I would certainly be happy to do so at that address. Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: may I strongly suggest that at this point you bow out of this thread? You have raised your concerns to the admins. Repeating over and over what amounts to "I don't like or trust this user" does not in anyway strengthen the case you have made. In this section, all you have done is derail my attempt to communicate with Lighthumormonger, which is far from helpful. - Jmabel ! talk 21:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And with that, not having received answers, I will also not repeat myself and will bow out of this. I hope some other admin(s) will take this up. At this point, I feel my mind is made up, but on the basis of evidence that does not meet the standard usually expected here, so I should probably just withdraw from the matter. Consider this a recusal. - Jmabel ! talk 21:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about adressing the questions raised here in public, as they are of public interest? Kritzolina (talk) 17:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Hi Kritzolina, I feel that Elizium has given me a sort of "barrage" here of approximately 10 questions all at once, that I am apparently supposed to answer all at once. Which question do you want me to start with first? Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - )   18:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just start with an easy one for you ... and then do the next one, and so on ... there is no hurry, just stop throwing blame on others as long as you are not done answering. Kritzolina (talk) 18:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a very reasonable and fair "opening question." If you don't mind, I would very much prefer if Elizium could please submit a numbered list of carefully worded questions first, so his questions can be properly and fairly addressed. Currently his many questions seem to be all over the place and worded in many different ways. I think it's only fair to request that Elizium first submit a carefully worded and numbered list of questions here, so we might be better able to address his questions. Would that be OK?

Thanks, Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not ok, I do mind. You are doing things here on Commons that look at least very shady. Try to explain yourself and your Wikipedia Editor's guild. You could start with explaining what WMF knows about all this and who is your contact person there. Kritzolina (talk) 18:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, as I told Elizium, who apparently did not believe me, we have been in contact with the WMF. Approximately one month ago we had an hour long conversation with Shaun Spalding, WMF Counsel. Mr. Spalding discussed the legality (or lack thereof) of the WEG. As best as he could determine, there was nothing illegal about it. I don't really like giving out names of WMF employees here, but if that's what you want we can do that. Lighthumormonger (talk) 19:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To better understand the WEG, I might suggest you review the page: My Meta Talk page. If after reviewing that page you may have any further questions about the WEG, I would be happy to answer them for you here. Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - )   19:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To Commons admin: given the email linked above, particularly point 2 in the email, it seems that any uploads from WEG members (including Lighthumormonger) should be heavily scrutinised, and it seems reasonable that if WEG members continue to upload their upload privileges should be removed. COM:VRT is the appropriate process to obtain licence releases, not via third party emails. Commander Keane (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. Reading through this whole thing there's clearly something fishy going on here and it's totally inappropriate to get permission for us to host images through a private email. That's what COM:VRT is for. Their overall behavior should really be questioned, scrutinized, and dealt with on other projects along with it but that doesn't stop us from doing what we can to stop their actions on our end in the meantime. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are so many problems with that email. A few:

• Using the term "Administrator", which all Wikimedia users know has a significant meaning in Wikimedia. This is a huge misrepresentation. The general misrepresentation worked, with the person responding "The Wikipedia Editors Guild is responsible for infinite value to humanity, and I appreciate the work y'all do."
• Other large gaps in Wikipedia and Commons policy

The above suggests that Lighthumormonger is not very familiar with Wikipedia or Commons policies and guidelines, certainly not enough to use the word "administrator", and is either mistakenly or maliciously misrepresenting themselves to the general public. Imagine how the person from Intuitive Machines feels, having provided a photo to an important sounding Wikipedia person, only to see it deleted (File:Odysseus-lander-at-30-degree-angle-on-moon.jpg). Is this something that Commons administrators can take action on? Consigned (talk) 17:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it, the WMF is quite capable of taking care of itself, and of making its own decisions. We will await instructions from them if we might have crossed any lines anywhere. Currently due to our work, the WMF was the first to legally release that IM photo to the public in a legally copyright free format. If you guys want to delete it, its on you. Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - )   04:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lighthumormonger: in my experience the WMF struggles with legal issues. We wait 6+ years for legal advice on software improvements, they do nothing when Wikimedia wikis violate terms of service (link), and now they are meant to deal with you? Anyhow, you said you would answer a list of questions, so:

1. How many members does WEG have?
2. What are their Wikimedia usernames?
3. Which organisations have you sent letters to requesting photos?
4. What are the corresponding uploads?

Commander Keane (talk) 05:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shaun Spalding might be aware of the existence of the group and have no issue with its name (checking this is within the scope of his role), but I heavily doubt the copyright issue has been approved. I might just check with WMF legal ... but aside from it, copyright issues affect us as a communiy first and foremost and are not just a thing for WMF to deal with. Copyright violations on our project can not be tolerated. So please answer the questions of Commander Keane, so we can start to look deeper into the issue. Kritzolina (talk) 07:24, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kritzolina, you have my word at this point, if that's what you want. If you want this I will put it in writing right now "I Lighthumormonger, will personally never upload another image to Wikipedia/Wikimedia in my lifetime," if that is what you want. Is that what you want? There are no hard feelings here. I would be perfectly happy to make that statement if that is what you want. At this point, my performing any further image uploads here on my part, would probably no longer be very compatible with my current role at the WEG. So I'm perfectly happy to make that statement right now. Do you want me to? Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - ) 14:22, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Commander's questions:

1. Right now we have only six members.
2. The only two organizations that we have sent letters to are Spacex and Intuitive Machines. We never got a reply from Spacex. The letter to Spacex was simply a technical inquiry, and had nothing to do with images or copyrights.
3. The only upload that we ever made using our own individually acquired "copyright permissions" was the "IM image" upload, The one that shows the Odysseus spacecraft on the Moon canted at a 30° angle.
4. Due to the various forms of harassment that our editors might be subjected to at WP, just as I have been subjected to over the last five days at WP, we prefer to keep the names of our members as confidential information. This WEG policy is somewhat similar to how the WMF typically respects the confidentiality of its own editors as it might relate to other organizations outside of the WMF/WP. As I understand it, typically the WMF only engages individual members of its "editorship" with outside organizations, with the permission of those editors that they would like to have engage with other organizations outside of the WMF/WP.

Thank you for the good questions,

Lighthumormonger (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the sake of clarity, we did write a letter to a sweet lady who had taken the photograph of F Lee Bailey's tombstone, and she gave us permission to use her photograph. I didn't include that letter above because she was not an "organization." Of course you can delete that image too if you want. Our purpose is not to make a name for ourselves but to help Wikipedia, but if you wish to delete both of our photos, have at it. Lighthumormonger (talk) 15:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Being harassed as an editor at Wikipedia is no picnic. I will tell you that much. Dang! It really sssuuuucccc..., oh never mind. Lighthumormonger (talk)   : - )   15:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "IM Photo" which had its copyrights legally removed by the president of Intuitive Machines so that Wikipedia could use it, is still appearing in the article and is here. So if you guys want to delete this photograph because you didn't get it in before we did, it's up to you. If you want to disappoint the president of Intuitive Machines, to destroy Wikipedia's claim that it was the first to release that photo, and to bolix up the article, it's on you. Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you want to go around the COM:VRT process? There are many independent groups contributing to the project but all these groups use the VRT to archive the permissions they obtained. GPSLeo (talk) 18:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will review the link above that you have kindly provided to the VRT process and get back with you shortly. We are happy to work together with processes that are already in place, so long as we do not feel that such processes might be in some sense "overly restrictive."

In the years that I have edited at Wikipedia, I've always uploaded images while experiencing a certain level of trepidation because sometimes it seemed that about half the time images were rejected for reasons which seemed to make no sense at all to me. As a lowly editor, I did not question the reasons, but I always wondered about them. I just simply stopped uploading images at one point.

Now with all of the harassment that I have experienced in the commons area over the last few days, I think I might be starting to remember why I eventually stopped uploading images all together. Thanks for the good question GPSLeo. Lighthumormonger (talk) 18:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AFTER PERUSING THE VRT PAGE: It never occurred to me to use the VRT system to submit an image. After remembering what they do over there at VRT, it does not look like they are really set up to routinely specialize in dealing directly with image copyright questions. Unless they were really set up for that, that just doesn't seem to make intuitive logical sense to me. Thanks for the good question GPSLeo. Lighthumormonger (talk) 19:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are writing that you edited Wikipedia for years and uploaded photos. Before February 2024 you only uploaded one photo. The other uploads are COM:OVERWRITE guideline violations on others works. That does not make sense. GPSLeo (talk) 19:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm well aware that Commons makes its own decisions, but I'd just note that Lighthumormonger has now been indef blocked on en.wp and meta, largely over concerns about this shady organization they claim to represent. Just Step Sideways (talk) 20:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Block on enwiki now upgraded to a checkuser block. Grandpallama (talk) 20:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, this is just semi-elaborate trolling. I think that is fairly obvious at this point but none of the admins seem to have reached the same conclusion. Just Step Sideways (talk) 22:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all! Sorry to pipe up again but it looks like the sock drawer has been thoroughly sniffed, except that I suspect that the IPv6 range 2601:642:C401:340::/64 (talk · contribs) may well belong to our man Scottperry (talk · contribs) here, because LHM fiddled with a user talk page here on Commons. Elizium23 (talk) 03:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that Lighthumormonger is now also blocked on Meta. Make it three-in-a-row and get a G-lock; it will finally stop wasting multiple volunteers' time and energy across several WM sites andprevent him from just moving on elsewhere... Serial Number 54129 (talk) 16:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support that. Nothing about their contributions anywhere seems constructive to the overall project. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Sounds like a case of en:WP:NOTHERE. Abzeronow (talk) 17:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Support Bidgee (talk) 17:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I already requested a lock yesterday. They didn't do it, this was the explanation:"Declining report for now, there are two local blocks and are under discussion on Commons, yes, but they are still editing some wikis without local blocks, and as it was mentioned in the stewards' IRC channel, this is mostly a local issue at the moment that local communities are able to handle. I do understand the reasoning for locking and I think we can potentially consider a lock (or, better, a global block) here if, for example, they were blocked on another wiki or if there is any evidence of sockpuppetry, but since this is not the case at the moment I am declining."

So it does seem another local block might move the needle. [1] Just Step Sideways (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I've indefinitely blocked Alexismeshi for legal threats and pointed them to the WMF contact page. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Alexismeshi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

User:Alexismeshi has been blocked on English Wikipedia and has had their user talk page access revoked. They've been attempting to continue their dispute at COM:HD#@Bbb23 & 331dot. Despite being advised by others that this is not really the best way to proceed, their latest post indicates they don't intend to stop. Their posts also imply legal action is being taken against two English Wikipedia administrators which is a violation of COM:NLT even if it's not related to Commons per se, and could also be construed as an attempt to create a "chilling effect" to discourage others from advising them of relevant English Wikipedia and Commons policies. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let their Legal Department handle this. There may be a cultural issue here. Alexismeshi (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legal Department: I need the names and contact information for these administrators: @Bbb23 and @331dot You are more than welcome to post here-free information for all. Alexismeshi (talk) 22:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I've indefinitely blocked Alexismeshi for legal threats and pointed them to the WMF contact page. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:35, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user is attempting to censor my communication on this board and obstruct a legal process. Alexismeshi (talk) 22:24, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

I’m going to go ahead and withdraw this. There are two reasons for that:
1. It’s clear that there’s not going to be a consensus for support. To a lot of folks, the lack of a formal IBAN policy is a dealbreaker, and for some, this isn’t a clear cut-enough case to be the site’s first IBAN.
2. Holy hell, there is so much arguing going on here. At this point, a substantive portion of the discussion by lines of text is folks sniping at each other. I blocked two people for conduct directly related to this thread, and there’s still sniping.
Ergo, I don’t think the project is served by leaving it open any longer.

Some closing statements:
1. @Dronebogus: your behavior in this thread and the DRs that led to it has been highly disruptive. I blocked you for a week for wikt:shit-stirring (some people have objected to that wording but no one has objected to the description), and it could have been longer. Consider this a final warning: if I see behavior like this again from you (arguing with everyone even over petty things, trying to draw more people into the arguments through talk page messages), the next block is going to be indefinite. You're very lucky that I missed you trying to get another user sanctioned on English Wikipedia (in part) for their comments here when I placed the original block.
2. @Just Step Sideways: as stated in the thread above, your word choice was overly confrontational. I hope you didn't start all this on purpose to entertain people on an external site, as has been alleged, but for anything short of death threats and doxxing (which would be handled at the Foundation level), I don't care what people do on other sites. There's no IBAN, but should you decide to nominate Dronebogus's content for deletion again, well... look at what happened this time and please moderate your word choice.
3. @Trade: the admins have eyes. You don't need to edit other posters's comments. If an admin thinks something is an issue, they will handle it. Especially in a thread like this that's already highly inflamed, that's just going to further fuel the fire. Please don't do it again.
4. Actually, "the admins have eyes" is a good reminder for everyone. You don't need to point out when people are coming into this discussion with few/no previous contributions. You don't need to point out IPs are probably users choosing not to sign in. You don't need to point out that he said or she said something in a thread that is already being heavily watched. It just makes the situation worse.
5. Accusations that someone is a pedophile or collects pedophile art, even when worded circuitously, are personal attacks. Considering the constellation of factors specific to this incident - A) the images are cartoon-style illustrations of characters of indeterminate age, B) the images are of people with both sets of genitals and accusing trans people of being pedophiles in order to try to chase them out of public spaces is a well known tactic, and C) there are credible accusations that there was off-site coordination at play - it is very difficult to assume good faith about the accusations.
6. I want to apologize for my part in starting this mess. I shouldn't have proposed an IBAN or started this thread. A strongly worded warning to the two initial parties to knock it off would, in hindsight, probably have achieved the same result without 5,000 words of back and forth.
The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:06, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my closing of this Administrators' noticeboard thread, I asked the Just Step Sideways and Dronebogus to stop interacting with each other, and offered that I'd propose a formal interaction ban if either party asked, though I hoped it wouldn't be necessary. Dronebogus asked for the ban, so I'm proposing it here, even though Commons doesn't have a formal IBAN system.

Proposal 1 - Just Step Sideways and Dronebogus are under a two-way interaction ban. In addition to the examples in the linked page, they are explicitly not to nominate each other's uploads for deletion or comment in DRs started by each other. This ban is indefinite until repealed through a similar thread on this noticeboard.

I'm not sure if there's a better alternative; I'm open to suggestions as long as the sniping stops. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support as nominator. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support as original proposer. Dronebogus (talk) 22:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Oppose how about Dronebogus just takes down his porn hmmm? Elinruby (talk) 22:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Noting commentator has been blocked for incivility. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 13:23, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose  Comment Two discussions over two years does not make an IBAN-worthy problem. Both users should stop being dicks to each other, and one of them should probably stop uploading dicks to Commons if they want to avoid this in the future. casualdejekyllcommons 22:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  So you’re essentially endorsing what JSS is attempting to do here, which is use canvassing and bullying to force me into obeying the opinions of his clique on WPO? Dronebogus (talk) 22:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm getting really tired of your accusations. You keep personally attacking me in defense of your cartoon porn, I shouldn't be subject to these lies and abuse. I nominated those images for deletion because they are outside of the scope of Commons, and for no ther reason. There was no canvassing and there certainly shopuldn't be any sort of sanction on me just because I opened a couple of deletion discussions. This is ridiculous. Just Step Sideways (talk) 22:54, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Everyone's being a complete asshole here and I don't like it. And you're not immune to that "everyone". But I think the goal of an IBAN here could be achieved just as easily with warning templates - there's just not a pattern of disruption here. casualdejekyllcommons 22:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  To use a cliche, JSS started it and has been consistently worse. I’ve made a few snide remarks but JSS is using every opportunity to double, triple, and quadruple down on insulting or inflammatory comments. Dronebogus (talk) 23:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree that JSS is the worse-behaving of the pair of you, but that doesn't excuse your contributions. Also, asking for a formal IBAN and then continuing to throw fuel on the fire *really* isn't a good look. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I know, but put yourself in my shoes: I’m being trailed by a bunch of people who won’t stop picking on me. I’m a little on edge here. Dronebogus (talk) 23:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You are the one who has accused me of canvassing and hounding, I've made no such accusations at you. I just don't think it is the purpose of Commons to host crude anime drawings of futas jizzing on their own faces or Wikipe-tan as a sex object. This is not your personal fantasy playground. Just Step Sideways (talk) 23:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Dronebogus: (ec) I'm here because you were whining about this on my talk page at English Wikipedia, after posting 60+ times to ANI in defense of your buddy. You canvassed me yourself. The thing is, I am not down. Elinruby (talk) 23:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Lightburst is not my buddy. Dronebogus (talk) 23:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Oh. Elinruby (talk) 23:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Just “oh”? Dronebogus (talk) 23:10, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Seems surprising. So too is reporting me to ANI at English Wikipedia for commenting here. Don't canvass me to your Commons proceedings if you don't want me here Elinruby (talk) 23:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• This really should be a non-issue. I don't think the high crime of "being a bit of a dick" deserves a public name-and-shame. But this has clearly failed the heat-and-light standard. Users can and have agreed with both JSS's and Dronebogus's perspectives on these images, and they can express their opinions without slinging mud. I've struck my Oppose in recognition of the severe tendentiousness displayed here, but I think a more appropriate sanction would be some kind of anti-bludgeoning restriction. casualdejekyllcommons 23:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  One: there’s this thing we have called W:WP:DICK (more formally Commons:Civility) that I think is kind of important. Two: is an “anti-bludgeoning restriction” really all that different from an interaction ban? Dronebogus (talk) 23:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support I am not a participant in this spat, but it has been pretty exhausting to watch. I will also, again, note to the closer of this that Elinruby and casualdejekyll are both posting in the Wikipediocracy thread, where fairly recently Beeblebrox posted a plea for backup. Well, I'm sure it was just an innocent mistake that both of them failed to mention this at all! Anyway, here's Beebs' post:

He's now calling for me to be banned from Commons, accusing me of hounding him for two discussions two years apart, and insisting that you guys told me to nominate the cartoon porn for deletion, while basically refusing to discuss why shitty porn cartoons are within the scope of Commons stated purpose.

All of which is totally on-brand.

As far as I can tell, the idea is that Beebs did nothing wrong, he's just going to keep being extremely hostile, for basically no reason other than teh lulz, then when he gets in trouble for it he will just go mewl on WPO, in the hopes that other users there will come here and bail him out. I see no reason to suspect that he has any interest whatsoever in stopping this or toning it down: being a WPO user means he is better than everyone else, should not have to follow the rules. JPxG (talk) 23:28, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider discussing the substance of my comments rather than claiming that I'm part of some Wikipediocracy cabal. casualdejekyllcommons 23:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider how it feels to be a Commons user who finds out while we're trying to have a discussion, a half dozen of the discussers are having their own private discussion on a private site, and then get massively defensive when anyone says anything about it. If there's a thread on a particular user on WPO, then behavior against that user on Commons by WPO users does have a feel of organized harassment.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a private discussion. It may be moved to the members-only section at some point, but for now you can read it here and assess for yourself the truth value of JPxG's claims. 91.85.220.117 04:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, just so we're clear, if I found out about Dronebobus' uploads from reading a thread on WPO, that's horrible canvassing, but when you find out about this discussion the exact same way it's totally cool? Just Step Sideways (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, I would never think to accuse an esteemed user such as yourself of a crime so horrible as canvassing! I am merely accusing you of posting regular updates on Wikipediocracy, in a thread named "User:Dronebogus, WP:BLUDGEON, and why there's so much porn on Commons", to announce the latest actions you've taken in your dispute with Dronebogus. Is this not true? JPxG (talk) 00:38, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Casualdejekyll: JPxG has stepped in to once again declare that being a user of Wikipediocracy automagically makes your arguments discountable. Well, no, I didn't declare that, because that would have been fucking dumb. In fact, I didn't even say that your comments should be discounted at all, the only thing I declared was the mere fact that you had come here from WPO. The only one saying that this necessarily invalidates them seems to be you. JPxG (talk) 00:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're really raising that civility bar with these comments, way to go. Just Step Sideways (talk) 18:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose The out-of-scope cartoon porn appears to have been nominated in good faith. That request should be judged on its own merits. This interaction ban misses the mark by a mile. Balph Eubank (talk) 23:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I really hate being lied about. I posted to that thread *after* @Dronebogus: posted to my talk page about these threads here. Maybe he should not tell me about his porn travails on Commons if he does not want me to comment on them. But since we are here, why is it exactly that this stuff is hosted on a WMF server? Enquiring minds want to know. Elinruby (talk) 23:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC) PS: Screenshots available if needed in reference to timestamps. Elinruby (talk) 23:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support Abzeronow (talk) 00:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• oppose I agree: just take the porn down and nobody gets, um, their knickers in a knot. 2600:4040:2789:D600:3AC2:2929:116D:97C9 00:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Not to insinuate anything but I’ve been getting a lot of random IPs cropping up in relation to this. Seems kind of… “sus”, as the kids say Dronebogus (talk) 00:55, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You can hardly blame people for that when you are seeking interaction bans and making ANI reports about people who don't see why you can't host your (Personal attack removed) on your own hardware. Elinruby (talk) 01:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Elin, you should retract that statement about CSAM immediately. Consider this a formal warning. Abzeronow (talk) 01:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{(ping|Abzeronow}} I am just now back online. I see you are an administrator, to whom I would normally give great deference in the same way that I would not argue with a traffic cop in the moment, merely take to court if needed. However I do not know what a CSAM is. Could you please indulge a newbie to Commons processes and explain that? I myself see a clearly false insinuation that is invalid on its face. What am I looking at wrong here? PS, my name is not Elin. If you do not want to type out all the syllables please use "El". Elinruby (talk) 04:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CSAM stands for child sexual abuse material. Abzeronow was saying that your previous comment was inappropriate. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 05:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AHA, he is saying it isn't actually kiddie porn? I disagree, but have stricken the word "kiddie". Is there a definition or policy somewhere about this that I could review please? Elinruby (talk) 05:19, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Abzeronow: I've blocked Elinruby for 2 days for this continuation after your warning. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 05:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I also agree with your statement regarding Dronebogus " Also, asking for a formal IBAN and then continuing to throw fuel on the fire *really* isn't a good look." This is definitely a messy thread. Abzeronow (talk) 17:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• For the record, that was an accidental edit-while-logged-out. I am not going to make a link between my user and an IP address so you'll have to take that on faith. And if you're feeling persecuted, you might want to consider the possibility that you've done things that are attracting a lot of attention. The easiest solution for you is to stop doing them. 2600:4040:2789:D600:D1BD:C4C8:3764:EA52 15:22, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support --Bedivere (talk) 02:09, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support --Mazbel (Talk) 03:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support --Kritzolina (talk) 06:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 06:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support --Cavarrone (talk) 06:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I am a little puzzled that people are supporting this despite there being no actual procedure for interaction bans on Commons, and also that they are just voting but not explaining their position. Very odd. Just Step Sideways (talk) 07:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  IAR (under a different name) applies here too. If you can dream up a sanction, I see no reason why it wouldn't be a valid one. And people are just sick of the whole "your porn sucks" schtick at this point, I think. casualdejekyllcommons 14:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose As noted, there is no formal mechanism for IBans of any colour here. If there was, the community would have already established a method of preventing one party from being able to effectively impose it on another merely by request. Which is what's happening here. Somewhat unilaterally. Serial Number 54129 (talk) 07:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This is borderline wikilawyering. We don't need formal procedures for everything. There are some examples at Commons:Editing restrictions of topic bans and upload bans which the community imposed even though we don't have formal TBAN procedures. The conditions if implemented are also clearly defined at the top of this section. Community consensus (as is being shown here) is good enough. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 10:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose. Per Elinruby and Balph Eubank💚Kelly The Angel (Talk to me)💚
•  Oppose per Eubank; I fail to see how JSS's DRs are out of line or harassment. Queen of Hearts (talk) 08:19, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  (For what it's worth, I don't find "there isn't a process" a convincing oppose rationale; we should be flexible.) Queen of Hearts (talk) 22:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support: Reading the admin noticeboard discussion and deletion discussion, I just see incivility after incivility from JSS. For instance, their inflammatory tone saying "shitty cartoon porn you love so much". Then they double down and state "[their] interest in terrible cartoon porn is a you problem". Then they make a retaliatory Wikipediocracy thread per JPxG where they state they did nothing wrong? Clear refusal to understand the issue. This should have deserved a temporary incivility block at the very least to prevent further wastage of the community's time. Again, the DR is not the issue but the combatitibe attitude which has resulted in disputes. But an IBAN is still fine. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 10:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  In the interest of total transparency (be never it said I lack honor) JSS wasn't the OP of that thread, it was some other guy -- JSS just posted in it. On all other points, I agree. JPxG (talk) 14:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think we need a rule against continuing Wiki drama offsite Trade (talk) 21:05, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Also, some have pointed out Commons has no formal IBAN procedure. However this is just wikilawyering. The IBAN conditions have been clearly defined at the top of this section. We once banned a user from uploading even though we have no formal upload ban procedure, and we banned a user from deletion even though we have no formal TBAN procedure. We don't need to formally define everything. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 10:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Support as per TSC and Matrix above. Yann (talk) 12:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• For the record, I blocked Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2789:D600:0:0:0:0/64 for a week. Just IP trolling. Yann (talk) 16:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment There wasn't much of a de-adminship policy back when I started a discussion that ended in bit removal. If it's a good idea, and it isn't forbidden by policy, there's no reason not to see if an iban here can help matters. I have no particular opinion at this point whether one should be imposed, I just wanted to respond to the "no formal mechanism" comments above. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Oppose Relatively few interactions between the two. JSS's nominations seem to be caused by legitimate reasons (which, incidentally, I agree with), not just to spite DroneBogus. Dilettante (talk) 17:31, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I think we should restrict voting to active accounts. Dilettante above has only 3 contributions on Commons. Yann (talk) 17:34, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I won't argue too strongly, since, ultimately, who should opine should be up to commons regulars. I was brought here by an enwiki ANI thread, so you can strike this or ignore me if you'd like.

  However, my view is that Commons has no formalized IBAN policy; the policy conditions are being borrowed from enwiki, as evinced by the original post. As such, enwiki users might have some relevant experience with what warrants an IBAN. Dilettante (talk) 17:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I don’t have a problem with non-regulars voting, but I do think those with relevant experience (such as local admins) should receive more weight Dronebogus (talk) 17:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  User:Just Step Sideways/Not really? casualdejekyllcommons 18:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Pretty much. Your opinion counts for only half if you are not of the body. Just Step Sideways (talk) 18:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment I have trouble taking Dronebogus's comments at face value when they do things like creating a redirect for "male privates.jpg" and pointing it at an image of soldiers in a marching band. Those don't seem like the actions of someone who is serious about what they are doing. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 19:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It’s an image of privates, who are male. It’s kind of a joke but it’s also showing what it says, and is a redirect of an overused title used for uploading dick pics. Dronebogus (talk) 19:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dronebogus It's not "kind of a joke". It's nothing other than a joke. A joke which you decided to make today, in the middle of all this. And immediately after you replied to my comment here you went directly to a deletion discussion that I started over a month ago and voted against my view. I question whether you have a the judgment and maturity to contribute productively here. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you’re making an inordinately huge deal over a slightly questionable gag very few people would ever notice and an innocent, civil vote in an open deletion debate. I looked at your contributions, was bemused by the title, and checked out the discussion. No bad faith whatsoever I assure you. Dronebogus (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not question people's judgement or maturity here because it could lead to uncomfortable conclusions. Because not only does Commons have different standards for content, apart from, say, enwiki, but contributors are judged in different dimensions. Dronebogus is currently being defended by at least 4-5 Commons administrators, in a dispute against @Just Step Sideways, who is no spring chicken, and those administrators are willing to block, sanction, and silence other experienced editors for casting aspersions on the quality, maturity, or legality of the uploads of someone who joined Commons less than 2 years ago. Not insulting him personally, that is, but making value judgements about his activity and contributions to this project. Which project is a free media repository distributing educational content to the whole world. Elizium23 (talk) 20:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn’t about quality or maturity, let alone legality. It’s about JSS going out of his way to make inflammatory remarks. You can nominate anything I upload for deletion, but you don’t have to tell me how awful and evil and disgusting it is 5 million times. Dronebogus (talk) 20:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of folks going out of their way, I've examined your user page and your uploads, and I regret that they ever entered my eyes or browser cache.

I've defended Wikipedia from trolls, vandals, and tendentious editors for 17 years and so I struggle, in this case, assuming good faith, much less assuming that you're working alone, or that this is your first account.

Your user page smells like a 15-year-old boy's carefully-curated sock drawer. Your contributions are awful, evil, and disgusting. Elinruby's comments are 100% correct and accurate.

You're complaining about how others are treating you -- and Commons administrators are defending you from that treatment -- but is anyone really surprised at these reactions, considering how we're being triggered and manipulated here? Elizium23 (talk) 20:19, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I’ll listen to the ~5 admins over your baseless aspersions and borderline personal attacks. Dronebogus (talk) 20:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Legality? Trade (talk) 21:04, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dronebogus: Since I started this thread - at your request, I should note - you have continually escalated the situation through your apparent need to argue with every single commenter, every single time, as well as your decision to throw aspirations at other participants here and on other pages. I am strongly recommending that you disengage, as it has become increasingly clear that, whatever the culpability Just Step Sideways had in kicking off this mess, the bulk of the blame for its continued degradation lies on you. Please consider this a formal warning that your interactions with other users on and about this thread have become disruptive. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. Dronebogus (talk) 20:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Squirrel Conspiracy: I think you may have meant "aspersions". We all have aspirations when we breathe.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 00:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  there is no policies about that! lets make do actions according to book. modern_primat ^{ඞඞඞ ----TALK} 22:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose, these are legitimate nominations of highly sexualised images of clearly very youthful, bordering on juvenile, fictional characters. They serve no educational value. On their enwiki userpage Dronebogus claims Wikipe-tan is their Waifu, and these images seem to have been uploaded for user's personal gratification. 1.152.111.98 23:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment I've blocked Dronebogus for continuing to escalate this after being warned to disengage. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 00:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I accept that many of you felt my comments went too far, that's a fair criticism. I don't accept that an interaction ban is the correct response, because Dronebogus has demonstrated here in this very thread that they have some behavioral issues that come out when their creations are criticized, and the uploads I nominated for deletion, regardless of the tone of my remarks about the, are clearly outside of Commons' scope.

  That being said I'm not any more interested in going through all this again than any of you are, so I won't be nominating his uploads for deletion in the future. Hopefully someone else will be paying attention if and when he makes such uploads or creates weird redirects for his own amusement in the future. Just Step Sideways (talk) 02:24, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment: Would an interaction ban prevent a clean start of any of the involved users? RodRabelo7 (talk) 04:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The whole point of a clean start is to "recogni[se] past mistakes and avoid[] harassment". If the new account simply edited in new topic areas (for Dronebogus this means not uploading any more sexualised images, for JSS this is not nominating Dronebogus' uploads) and didn't do past mistakes then this is fine. We don't really have a policy on clean starts anyway. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 05:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose per Dilettante's reasonable arguments. Nothing wrong with the nominations, one should not need 3,358 contributions to Commons to have one's reasonable arguments heard. SashiRolls (talk) 13:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Comment Not to add fuel to the fire, but apparently sockpuppetry is also involved in the drama 💚Kelly The Angel (Talk to me)💚

•  Oppose Per other people who oppose this. @Dronebogus: and a few others who support this were just going off a few weeks ago about how repeated needling with personal comments isn't an issue and anyone who thanks otherwise is just being over sensitive. So apply your standards and suck it up buttercup. It's always the people who are most vocal about how other user are being over sensitive that act like the biggest snow flakes the second their even mildly criticized for their own behavior. Not that I don't have sympathy for the pedo comments, which are totally needless, if not clear violations of the guidelines, but hey it's only two DRs over as many years. @Dronebogus: will sit there all day and go off about how other people should take responsibility for their actions, but then do nothing but deflect and blame everyone else when it comes to his. So he really has no room to talk when his whole standard is to say "F you" and "I didn't do anything. It's all your fault. Just stop being an over sensitive cry baby!!!" to anyone who complains about his bad attitude. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
•  Oppose - enacting an IBAN here would be suppressing a mere symptom: it's like taking statins to reduce cholesterol, or paracetamol to reduce a fever. JSS's actions on Commons have indicated a healthy and functioning immune system. Let's not suppress that response to the root causes. There are two root issues I can identify: one is off-wiki drama and coordination being stirred up where it is out of our sight and control. That's never a good sign (it's also a symptom but it's a proximate cause for this dispute.) The second and obvious root cause is Dronebogus having a troll personality. His masterful contributions indicate an expert level of skill and experience in triggering and manipulating others. I personally doubt that Dronebogus acts alone and I doubt that this is his "first rodeo". He's currently blocked. Unfortunately, Commons doesn't subscribe to the principle of en:WP:DENY and we need a healthy dose of en:WP:DFTT here as well. An appropriate and complete "immune system response" would be to indef Dronebogus and delete every contribution he's ever made. Then we could stop wasting our time and go back to building a free media repository that deserves the respect of our peers. It's sad that trolls can waste so much admin/editor time, but every once in a while, someone finds an ideal way to manipulate the sentiment here and fly under the radar with a straight face, and we don't realize we've been played, until we're knee deep in someone else's B.S. Elizium23 (talk) 19:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. There's really no other way to explain comments on his user page like "I’m gonna drive around with a picture of a naked anime child on my bike" other then intentional trolling to stir up drama. This could and should have just been dealt with a while ago by indefing him until he promised to clean up his act and the trollish pedo sounding nonsense. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let us avoid personal attacks please Trade (talk) 21:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Trade: Don't edit other people's comments. It's not a personal attack to say "I’m gonna drive around with a picture of a naked anime child on my bike" sounds like something someone who's sexually attracted to kids would say. I already said so in my comment, but I don't think Dronobogus is a pedo, but again, it sounds like something someone with that inclination says and it's not against the rules to describe how something sounds on here. If someone says "I'm going to get a gun and kill a politician" on their talk page then at least IMO there should be zero issue what-so-ever with another user pointing it out or saying it sounds violent. Your free to disagree, but at least keep the original comment about it intact please. Thanks. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changing your comment vs. hiding parts of your comment for NPA reasons are two very different things. Don't conflate them please Trade (talk) 21:52, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Trade: I don't want you doing either one and it's not a personal attack anyway. So it's a distinction without a purpose. This is pretty simple and I could care less about the semantics, don't edit my comments. Period. End of story. Just don't do it. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Oppose I don't seem to find it warranted, and perhaps that an IBAN is TOOSOON. _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 21:18, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand a Wikipediocracy thread has been started, and would like to clarify stuff for any on-lookers. Supporting this does not mean we are supporting the uploads of Dronebogus (and vice versa). It means we support a two-way IBAN between Dronebogus and JSS, and by extension think that the behaviour of both Dronebogus and JSS has been uncivil to say the least (since that's the point of a two-way IBAN). There have been straw man allegations on both sides saying "Commons admins support weird porn!" and "Experienced Wikipedia editors are allowed to break policies!". I just wanted to clarify the nature of this proposal for any future onlookers. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 15:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you add a link to the Commons policy on IBANs please? Thank you. SashiRolls (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Common sense, perhaps? Bedivere (talk) 15:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COM:SENSE appears to be an essay. :) SashiRolls (talk) 16:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What have KiwiFarm LiteWikipediocracy accused Commons of this time? Trade (talk) 20:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.