Front page photo by Kathryn Yu; photo on this page by Drew Kaiser
The rumors are true. And then some. Bon Iver mastermind Justin Vernon laid vocals down on "at least 10 songs" during three separate week-long trips to record with Kanye West in Hawaii earlier this year. While it's unclear how many of those tunes will actually make Kanye's forthcoming record-- due November 16-- at least one, "Lost in the World", seems to be a lock. In fact, the track-- which features newly recorded vocals by Vernon as well as a prominent sample of his Auto-Tuned song "Woods"-- could very well be the as-yet-untitled album's next single, according to a Kanye Ustream broadcast that aired last week.
All this news comes courtesy of Vernon himself, who excitedly chatted with us about the collaboration yesterday. Talking about "Lost in the World", Vernon said, "We were just eating breakfast and listening to it and Kanye's like, 'Fuck, this is going to be the festival closer.' I was like, 'Yeah, cool.' It kind of freaked me out." Along with West, Vernon met and worked with Nicki Minaj, John Legend, and Rick Ross while in Hawaii. He said, "I was literally in the back room rolling a spliff with Rick Ross talking about what to do on the next part of a song. It was astonishing."
Please allow the amazingness of that last quote to settle in. OK, let's move on.
Vernon's work with Kanye may be the most sensational thing he's been up to, but it's not the only thing. He's currently toiling in his own April Base studio in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, trying to complete the next Bon Iver album, which he says won't be out until next year. And he's gearing up to head out on tour with his soft-rocking side project Gayngs in September. And because that's not enough news for one story, he's starting an intriguing new imprint with his label, Jagjaguwar.
We talked to him about all the above-- especially the Kanye stuff-- so please click on to read the full Q&A:
Pitchfork: Walk me through this Kanye West collaboration. How did it come about?
Justin Vernon: I was in New York in January and I got a call from my manager and he said Kanye West wanted to maybe use "Woods" as a sample." I was like, "Yes." A week later there were more murmurings and eventually I just got on the phone with Kanye. We ended up talking for a half hour about music and how we were fans of each other and Avatar. It was a really pleasant, easy-going conversation between two people that are pretty psyched about music.
He was like, "I like how you sing so fearlessly. You don't care how your voice sounds. It'd be awesome if you could come out to Hawaii and hear the track, and there's some other shit I think we could throw down on." I was just like, "Yeah, cool man!" I surprised myself by not being nervous or apprehensive. I said, "When should I come out?' And he was like, "How about tomorrow?"
So I head out there and he plays me the track and it sounds exactly like how you want it to sound: forward moving, interesting, light-hearted, heavy-hearted, fucking incredible sounding jam. It was kind of bare so I added some choir-sounding stuff and then thicked out the samples with my voice. That whole first week I was there we worked on the "Woods" song, which is called "Lost in the World". We were just eating breakfast and listening to the song on the speakers and he's like, "Fuck, this is going to be the festival closer." I was like, "Yeah, cool." It kind of freaked me out.
After that first week he was like, "I want you to come back." So I came back a few weeks later and it was the same kind of thing, throwing ideas around-- there are a bunch of other songs I'd just throw down on, write a little hook, whatever. In the studio, he was referencing Trent Reznor, Al Green, the Roots-- the fucking awesomest shit. It made total sense to me.
I asked for a separate studio because I'd do so much overdubbing to get my ideas out. So I ended up recording in this tiny back room, and then Kanye would come back and listen to what I came up with, and then we'd work on changing the lyrics. We'd just sit there and collaborate. It was fucking fun, man. A-Trak was out there, Nicki Minaj. Just a bunch of über talented people and everyone was really nice and chill and just working on Kanye's record. I was literally in the back room rolling a spliff with Rick Ross talking about what to do on the next part of a song. It was astonishing. Kanye came back and was like, "Look at you two guys. This is the craziest studio in the Western world right now!"
Pitchfork: Did you have any hesitation at all when Kanye initially called you?
JV: No. The only hesitations that I've had is just like, "Is this going to make it hard to go to the grocery store?" I think it will be OK because it's not like he's gonna ask me to do the VMAs with him or something. I'm just a dude in a t-shirt who smells like shit. I would talk to him about it, like, "I don't know if I know how to dress up, dude."
Pitchfork: Do you think sharing stages with people like David Byrne made it easier for you to be comfortable with someone like Kanye?
JV: I think so. David Byrne is cool because he's an extremely special human being-- extremely nice and caring and down to earth. I got the same vibes from Kanye. He's such a spirited dude. We would have political conversations and there'd be all this arguing back and forth. No one else there was afraid to say anything. I think he's very aware of the person he is, and I applaud him for that. It takes a lot of strength just to stay how he is amongst all the shit that he's subjected to. But I found him extremely like a bro. You could talk to him about whatever.
Pitchfork: Do you know how Kanye first heard about you?
JV: I heard a couple different things. This guy Jeff [Bhasker] who plays keyboards and writes a lot of the music with Kanye told me he showed Kanye my shit. He's like, "My fucking girlfriend wouldn't go see Kanye play 'cause she went to see you at Town Hall in New York. I had to find out who this asshole was so I looked you up." But I think [producer] No I.D. had something to do with it, too. I'm not exactly sure-- I wasn't asking too many questions about it.
Pitchfork: Were there any kind of "pinch yourself" moments-- apart from smoking with Rick Ross?
JV: Basically any time Kanye would suddenly get the juice-- he'd just start controlling a track and Pete Rock was up there and shit would just start happening. You could feel this crazy energy. I loved seeing him work like that.
There was one night where I was in the control room with the engineer and John Legend was in the sound booth singing along to something that I did. It was just like, "Holy shit, man. There's John Legend in there singing like a motherfucker."
Pitchfork: People like Rick Ross, Kanye, and Nicki Minaj are all really deep into this hip-hop world. Did you ever feel like an odd man out?
JV: Not at all. Kanye's obviously is in this hip-hop realm but he's so much bigger than that. He makes records. And this next record is more proof that he's not afraid to make a really good hip-hop album that has incredible music on it. He knows how to keep growing, and you can't say that for everybody. Maybe asking me to play on his record was the worst idea he's ever had and it'll ruin both of us, but it was cool.
Pitchfork: It sounds like you're playing a similar role to the one Chris Martin did on the Graduation song "Homecoming". You're following in Chris Martin's footsteps!
JV: Maybe, sure! The only difference is some of the stuff I was doing with my voice was more weird and instrumental-- basically building what would sound like a synth part with vocals. I felt very much like a session musician, and that was really cool, too.
Pitchfork: Where did you stay when you were in Hawaii?
JV: I stayed at Kanye's house sometimes. We'd sleep, wake up, play hoops in the morning, and then just spend like 16 hours a day working.
Pitchfork: And now that you know people like Nicki Minaj and Rick Ross, maybe you'll become this go-to guy for hip-hop hooks.
JV: Yeah, shit's already coming in. It's cool. I don't want to talk about exactly what it is, but it's exciting knowing that I could probably have some shit lined up to work on if I wanted to have a bunch of kids and not tour again.
Pitchfork: Did you think about asking Kanye to do a verse on the new Bon Iver album?
JV: I immediately thought of it, of course. There's just not a spot for that much fury on my record right now [laughs]. He's got a serious fucking flow.
Pitchfork: How's the new Bon Iver album coming along?
JV: It's going good. It's becoming something that I could never come up with just sitting down and writing songs. It's very subconscious and elemental. I'm changing how I write songs as I make this record-- it's coming from a songwriter's perspective, but it's unraveling patterns that you just get too used to doing being a typical singer-songwriter.
Sonically, it's my favorite thing we've ever worked on. Two of my favorite saxophone players are on it; one of my favorite pedal steel players is on it. It's branching out but it really feels like us.
Pitchfork: How far along are you?
JV: I'm probably 75% along the way but I've been working on it for two years so I don't know how long the rest of it will take. You won't be hearing a record for another year, probably.
Pitchfork: Do you have anything else going on or are you hunkering down on the Bon Iver album?
JV: I'm just living in Eau Claire, not really leaving for much. I go to the farmers market, go to the studio, go home and play with my cats. I don't know if I've ever been this happy, which is really awesome.
Pitchfork: You definitely have a lot to be happy about. If you were unhappy now, there'd be serious problems.
JV: Yeah, if I was bumming out and making some breakup record now how boring would that be?
Pitchfork: Last time I spoke with you, you mentioned that some of the songs you were working on sounded like Bruce Hornsby. And then you ended up on this Gayngs album-- which kind of sounds like Bruce Hornsby.
JV: The Gayngs thing came to me from Ryan [Olson], who's like a childhood hero of mine. He played in the band in high school when I was in middle school and I just looked up to him. Some of the album was recorded at my studio out here, and we mixed it here, too. Me and Ryan and my brother Nate just spent months and months and months on it. Being able to do something that wasn't necessarily me at the forefront was really important.
And it made me realize how sounds had become political-- it's not cool to have certain sounds on your record and I had no fucking idea. Like, I didn't even know that I was supposed to apologize for listening to Bruce Hornsby. It's dumb to meddle in those kind of questions, like, "Is this cool or not?" I really don't give a shit about that stuff.
Pitchfork: There's a fine line between having fun with something and making fun of something.
JV: Exactly. If anything we were making fun of ourselves, but it's never been a making-fun kind of vibe.
Pitchfork: Is there an album that may not be seen as cool that meant a lot to you growing up?
JV: There's this band called Amateur Love from Eau Claire. They put out a record and it probably sold like 500 copies-- it was like this electro-pop thing with a Neil Young or Paul Westerberg-quality songwriter, I shit you not. I'm actually starting an imprint at Jagjaguwar called Chigliak, and Amateur Love is going to be the first record I put out. It's like a "lost records" thing and I'm encouraging other people to send in records of their local heroes-- totally unsigned shit that never went anywhere but is incredible.
