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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denice Zamboanga (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Liz Read! Talk! 00:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Denice Zamboanga[edit]

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Denice Zamboanga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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An article on this mixed martial artist was deleted three years ago after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denice Zamboanga as failing to meet either mixed martial arts notability or general notability. At the time, there were also multiple drafts, probably because someone was trying to game the system. The originators were then blocked for sockpuppetry. This article does not differ materially from the deleted article. The subject still is not top-ten-ranked, and so does not meet mixed martial arts notability. The article does not speak for itself and explain how the subject meets general notability. The subject's association with the ONE Championship is now verified, but "so what?", participation in the ONE Championship is not grounds for notability. The article has been reference-bombed, but nothing in the article refers to significant coverage in an article that does not speak for itself. This article differs enough from the deleted article so that speedy deletion is not in order; but it does not differ enough from the deleted article to avoid deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Martial arts, and Philippines. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Sources 4, 8, 9, 20 and 24 are all RS that talks about her, the article seems to meet notability. Oaktree b (talk) 11:48, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Source #4 is her brother talking, and the subject is only namedropped. Source #8 interviews her, and almost entirely consists of quotes from the subject. Source #9 ... inquirer.net is a reliable source, but that's a scanty article consisting of five sentences aside from quotes from the subject, and that barely scrapes by if at all. #20 looks like a good source. #24 is scanty routine sports coverage. I'm not digging deeper one way or another, but they're weak reeds to hang a keep. Ravenswing 02:52, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments She has never met WP:NMMA. The first source mentioned above is an article about her brother, she is mentioned in passing because she was on the same fight card. The next three are pre-fight articles about her first match in the promotion's Grand Prix tournament (which would be typical coverage for any fighter). The final reference is a report on that fight, which she lost. Even if you believe that coverage is significant, it is all about one event. Didn't check other references, so I'm not voting yet. Papaursa (talk) 13:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: In addition to the sources already in the article, there is [[1]] and [[2]]. Not sure if it is enough to meet the notability guidelines though. Let'srun (talk) 14:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The subject does not meet criteria for WP:MMA. Passing mentions, quotes, interviews, event announcement and results are not sufficient to meet WP:GNG.Lekkha Moun (talk) 16:54, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:11, 12 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still no consensus. I don't understand how very experienced editors can vary so widely on how they evaluate sources and their reliability. But it happens every day in AFDLand.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: She gets a fair bit of coverage in Filipino media [5], [6], [7], during and after matches. This suggests notability. I might call this a weak keep, but I think we have enough. Oaktree b (talk) 12:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete: She quite clearly does not meet WP:NMMA, and as for WP:GNG, there are a few reliable sources, but not enough content is from them to justify notability, and too much comes from name drops/non-independent sources. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 17:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It's clear she doesn't meet WP:NMMA or WP:ANYBIO, so the question boils down to meeting WP:GNG. I commented earlier on the existing references at the time. Since then user Let'srun added two sources from the week preceding her last fight--the first is that she's training with her fiance and the second is standard prefight coverage about her bout with a completely unranked (by fightmatrix) fighter who took the fight on two weeks notice. The three sources mentioned by Oaktree_b are another pre-fight article on the same fight, that fight's result report, and that the currently injured One promotion champion is willing to fight her "dearest friend" for her title when she recovers from injury (which all sounds promotional and not-independent to me, especially given she's already got a fight scheduled for September). I see lots of coverage in terms of number of articles, but everything seems to be typical coverage that any pro MMA fighter would have. She is currently ranked 41st in the world and has never beaten a top 25 fighter, so there's nothing to distinguish her from other aspiring fighters. She's had 5 fights (3 wins, 2 losses) since the article was previously deleted so it doesn't appear that much has changed. She may become notable, but my crystal ball simply isn't that good. Papaursa (talk) 11:13, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: I concur with the analysis from Papaursa, this subject may become notable in the future but doesn't meet the WP:GNG today. Let'srun (talk) 21:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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