Talk:STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting: Difference between revisions

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Please change convicted in the infobox on the top of the article to perpetrators because most school shooting articles have the perpetrators listed under perpetrators not under convicted.--Afjnsd (talk) 08:14, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

EDITORS: User Afjnsd is very likely a sockpuppet of Cadeken (talk · contribs), a prolific sock master who has edited similar pages with numerous sockpuppets. Cadeken socks always deny that they are socks until they're blocked. See the most recent sock report: WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Cadeken. For the long list of previous socks see WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Cadeken/Archive. Sundayclose (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Gender identity Alec McKinney shouldn't be deadnamed or refered to with she/her pronouns. While obviously what he did was horrible, we can be civil when discussing him and his actions Anothermedgirl (talk) 17:09, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've suggested merging the article on shooter Devon Erickson to this page, 2019 STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting—that discussion . According to the lone comment on on Talk:Devon Erickson, Erickson is notable for his role in the shooting and his conviction. But the significance of that conviction is, plainly, derivative of the shooting—it's part of the legal aftermath of the shooting. And if every person who committed a high profile crime became separately notable by virtue of their conviction, we'd have a lot more Wikipedia pages.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 13:32, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I went through with this merge. There was noting in the Erickson article that wasn't either (1) uncited or (2) already in this article.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 02:48, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Background: Hello! I recently reverted an edit inserting Alec McKinny's birth name by @CountMacula:, and I explained my reasoning on that user's talk page. However, CountMacula has disagreed with my reasoning; my revert was reverted, but today, a day later, I reverted back. Though not set in stone, I think given the (1) contentious-topic notice and (2) the (admittedly possibly tangential) BLP considerations, the status quo should remain in place until the issue is discussed on this talk page.

But I don't want the above to detract from the fact that the interpretation I have of MOS:GENDERID has been challenged. The relevant portion of MOS:GENDERID is If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page (including lists, redirects, disambiguation pages, category names, templates, etc.), even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists.

Opinion of User:Jerome Frank Disciple

I think the best reading of MOS:GENDERID requires a living transgender or non-binary person to have been notable prior to socially transitioning for their name to warrant inclusion. Since the person in question was not notable under his birth name, I believe MOS:GENDERID dictates exclusion.

From what I've understand, CountMacula suggests that the post-transition coverage of McKinney's birth name and the legal documents filed using that name render McKinney notable under his birth name. But (1) while this is admittedly wikilawyering, I'm not sure that reading is consistent with the tense used in the MOS:GEDNERID clause, which asks "[i]f a living transgender ... person was ... notable under a former name". And, (2) Criminal-case court documents will, at least as I understand (having worked in a federal court), merely reflect the legal name of a person. So, for such persons who are convicted or (where BLP:CRIME allows) charged with offenses, CountMacula's interpretation of MOS:GENDERID will effectively require the person to have legally changed their name. As I understand, GENDERID has never been associated with such a requirement.

I'll concede that this isn't explicit in the guidelines, so to prevent an edit war, I've brought the issue to this talk page to seek input from other editors.--Jerome Frank Disciple (talk) 13:49, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion of CountMacula

McKinney was "notable under a former name"--under the name that we now call a former name. A web search on: "maya elizabeth mckinney court documents" shows that:

• McKinney was notable to the court, at trial, under the name Maya Elizabeth McKinney.
• McKinney was notable to dozens of reliable secondary sources under the name.

So the condition "If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname)" is false, and MOS:GENDERID does not apply. CountMacula (talk) 02:27, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Response to third opinion request (disagreement as to MOS:GENDERID: Is a living person notable "notable under a former name (a deadname)" if, post-transition, many (possibly most) reliable sources and court documents refer to that person as his "former name"?):

I have taken a third opinion request for this page and am currently reviewing the issues. I shall replace this text shortly with my reply. I have made no previous edits on 2019 STEM School Highlands Ranch shooting and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:06, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]