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Kirk Franklin speaks at 2017 BMI Trailblazers of Gospel Music at Rialto Center for the Arts on January 14, 2017 in Atlanta, Georgia. (Photo by Paras Griffin/Getty Images for BMI)
Paras Griffin

Music Sermon: How Kirk Franklin Remixed Gospel Music

In honor of Kirk Franklin's 49th birthday, #MusicSermon chronicles how the former VIBE cover star remixed gospel for a generation that may not have found christianity through church pews.

#MusicSermon is a weekly series by Naima Cochrane that highlights the under-acknowledged and under-appreciated urban artists and sub-genres from the '90s and earlier. The series seeks to tell unknown and/or forgotten stories that connect the dots between current music, culture and the foundations of the past.

In this era of music, there’s “trap gospel,” one of the biggest rappers of the last several years wears a “3” on his hat to represent the holy trinity and holds his own version of the altar call at the end of his shows, and the song “Jesus Walks” is an old school classic. But it’s easy to forget that way back in the 90s when Kirk Franklin’s music first hit MTV, the pop charts and the cover of this publication, church folks were scandalized. Easy to forget that a gospel artist dressed like a rapper or member of your favorite male R&B group wasn’t common. There was a wide chasm between gospel and secular music. Until Kirk. In honor of his birthday, today’s Music Sermon takes a look back at how he changed an entire genre--maybe two.

Gospel and secular music have a decades-old love/hate relationship. The genres have always influenced each other even as they’ve denied each other. Up until relatively recently, the best of black music’s singers, musicians and producers developed their craft in the black church, bringing the oil with them into the world to sprinkle some anointing on soul and R&B tracks. Then there were the greats, like Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin, who turned away from presumed gospel careers to seek pop success, but who had the spirit so imprinted in their voices they made everything sound like worship anyway. R&B has always reached back to acknowledge the church, in the way you swing by on event Sundays even if you haven’t been to service in a while: artists participated in gospel tributes, featured choirs on big songs and performances, and in the 90s it was an unwritten rule that an R&B album contained at least a gospel-feeling interlude. But gospel’s foray into secular music was much less frequent. It happened occasionally; The Hawkins Singers, The Staple Singers, and The Clark Sisters all had singles land on the pop or R&B charts. Then Andraé Crouch laid the foundation for contemporary gospel music in the 70s and 80s, using secular influences in his sound and working with pop and R&B stars including Elvis, Michael Jackson, El Debarge, Stevie Wonder, Madonna, Elton John, and Chaka Khan. (And composing/performing one of the livest TV theme songs of all time for Amen!) And then, Kirk. Kirk Franklin didn’t just bridge gospel and secular music, he combined them. The title “gospel rap” still isn’t commonly used, but Kirk Franklin is to whatever that hybrid genre would be called, what Puffy is to “hip hop soul.”

In the 90s, even young Christians were feeling disconnected from the gospel music they heard at church and on gospel radio. And the gospel that had a life on R&B radio, like BeBe and CeCe Winans, Take 6 and Sounds of Blackness, was more inspirational. Messages of agape love and hope. Not a lot of Jesus. Kirk came with Jesus, seeking the ears and hearts of the young churched and unchurched alike. He didn’t just aim for secular influence, but a full secular sound, with songs that sampled the Beastie Boys, Rufus and Chaka Khan, LTD, The Jacksons, Tears for Fear and even Scarface. Remaking hits from the 80s (yeah, yeah) to make it sound so crazy (yeah, yeah)…crazy for the Holy Spirit! It was kinda how parents blend vegetables into their kids’ favorite dishes on the sneak, except with Jesus instead of broccoli. Franklin created gospel that not only moved you to praise and tears, but made you wanna dance. Not just praise dance. Dance, dance. In the club. And while you were bankhead bouncing you realized you were getting a word. “They don’t come to gospel for the production or the beats,” Franklin told The New Yorker regarding his penchant for pushing sonic boundaries in gospel, “I wanna give you Jesus, but I wanna give you Jesus with an 808.”

While his career has been dogged with a mixture of praise and criticism, accused sometimes of having one foot in the world and one foot in the church, Kirk has remained one of the biggest contemporary gospel stars of all time – definitely the biggest of his generation. And still, continues to stand in the gap.

Franklin was a prodigy, and was writing, composing and directing the adult choir at his church as a minister of music by age 11. But unlike some children from strict christian households, he listened to and loved secular music. He established his name in traditional gospel circles working with various mass choirs, and simultaneously formed his own group, which he called The Family. His intention was to move gospel closer to secular music from the beginning. Not the message, though; just the music. “I’m trying to change the way people look at gospel music,” Franklin explained to the LA Times in 1996. “It’s not corny, and it’s not hokey. We’re not just running around here with some choir robes on, yelling and screaming. It’s not about that anymore, kid.”

At non-church audience performances, Franklin and The Family would flip current hits to get and keep the crowd’s attention, adding Christ-centered references where appropriate. Not just R&B hits, hip hop hits. “When the holy spirit comes, you know it comes correct…woo ha!! It gots you all in check!” Sound familiar? That type of flip, where you don’t distill the essence or the energy of the original, just the language, has become one of Franklin’s signatures.

Kirk and The Family’s breakthrough hit, “Why We Sing,” was a traditional contemporary gospel song, but still a remix of sorts. It was an update of the classic hymn “His Eye is on the Sparrow,” with another of Franklin’s signatures: his voice guiding us through the song as combination worship leader and hype man. Over time the song rose to the top of the Gospel chart and the Contemporary Christian chart (The first black act to do so), and crossed over to the R&B chart. Kirk Franklin & the Family became the first gospel album to crack a million units in sales (unheard of prior, even with gospel’s biggest acts), and the first gospel album since Aretha Franklin’s Amazing Grace to land in the Top 10 of the Billboard R&B chart.

“Why We Sing” kept Kirk Franklin & the Family at No. 1 on the Billboard Gospel chart for almost a year (42 weeks), so they dropped Kirk Franklin & the Family Christmas as a way of giving fans new music in advance of the sophomore album. The LP produced instant choir classics, like “Now Behold the Lamb,” but also spawned the jingle jam “Jesus is the Reason for the Season,” in which a Kangol and leather vest-clad Franklin informed us, “Santa Claus ain’t got nothin’ on this!” Then he broke it down towards the end about how “(He) love(s) it when (we) call Him (our) savior.”

We talked about Kirk being the gospel inverse of Puff already, right?

The second album Whatcha Lookin’ 4 established Franklin songs as a staple for any youth or young adult choir worth their salt. They were easy to teach and easy to recall, with simple three-part vocal melodies--guaranteed to get the entire church rockin’. Enough so that the elders will ignore hearing Tony! Toni! Tonè!’s “Anniversary” during the modulations.

You know your part. Sing along.

By the way, there’s also a “Crush on You” remix for “Melodies…”
Yes, Junior Mafia.
Yes, for a gospel song.
Yes, it’s an entire bop.
Yes, Kirk is milly rocking.

Whatcha Lookin’ 4 was another platinum success, but it was the follow up that broke Franklin wide open in the secular space and made him a gospel’s biggest superstar. Jimmy Iovine, who was hipped to Franklin’s music by an employee, offered Franklin a production deal through Interscope Records. He believed Franklin would be for gospel what Bob Marley was for reggae. Franklin decided to build something outside of The Family that he could be more experimental with, and tapped a young Fort Worth choir called God’s Property to work with him.

The debut single was “Stomp,” and it changed everything. The single that went to radio was a remix, with a Funkadelic sample, featuring a rapper (Salt of Salt-n-Pepa), and was released on the same label that housed Death Row Records. The song’s intro was a declaration from Franklin – with another Biggie reference thrown in for good measure:

“For those of you that think that gospel music has gone too far, you think we’ve gotten too radical with our message…well I got news for you; you ain’t heard nothin’ yet. And if you don’t know, now ya’ know.”

(I’m positive Big never thought that hip hop would make it that far.)

God’s Property From Kirk Franklin’s Nu Nation debuted at No. 3 on the Billboard Top 200 and No. 1 on the Billboard R&B charts: both firsts for a gospel album. The single was a No. 1 hit on the pop charts and the first gospel video put in regular rotation on MTV. The project eventually sold three million copies, the largest selling album ever in the genre at the time. This was not your grandmother’s gospel.

Son, they were goin’ down the Soul Train line on this.

The saints weren’t really feeling it. While Kirk was still beloved as a gospel artist, some thought he was going too far to translate God’s word to young audiences.

VIBE’s October 1997 issue featured a cover story on Franklin’s unprecedented mainstream success – a story in which, among other things, he referred to himself as “the holy dope dealer” peddling “Jesus rock.” Some of the resulting letters to the editor were scathing.

“I was a Kirk Franklin fan until I read your story,” one read. “I commended him for being a young man who really loved the Lord. Now, I think he uses the words “Hallelujah” and “God” over bouncy beats to appeal to GenX, not to the traditional churchgoers. You can’t straddle the fence when it comes to serving God.”

“If I can go to a club and ‘stomp’ on a dance floor, then what’s the purpose of going to church? Mr. Franklin is little more than a pimp, prostituting a new style of gospel music that sounds no different from hip hop and R&B. Once (you’re saved), your life does not become a ‘holy ghost party.’”

But was this a fair assessment, or out of touch? After all, music is a form of ministry, and the point of ministry and evangelism is to bring souls to Christ. Why should the message not go forth in a way to reach a younger audience? Why can’t it be a “holy ghost party?”

This has been Franklin’s counter-argument as he’s faced this criticism continuously over his 25-year career. He responded to detractors in a 1998 interview with Jet magazine, explaining, “Gospel music is not a sound; gospel music is a message. As long as the message is still the good news about Jesus loves you and He died for you. He’s coming again for you.” The bottom line, “No matter how radical my music may seem, does the music say Jesus or does it not say Jesus?”

Franklin once expressed in an interview that he felt like he could be a 27-year-old with God’s Property. He didn’t have to temper his energy and excitement. Didn’t have to dress in suits to perform. Didn’t have to be a church elder. The success of “Stomp” and the God’s Property album left him free to push boundaries even further. He was all in. Shiny suit, fish-eyed lens, bubble coat and ski goggles, Darkchild production (and feature! With a Mase flow!) late-‘90s bling-era all in.

This is the greatest video in the entire history of music videos. You should watch it multiple times. ALL MY REAL LIVE SAINTS THROW YOUR HANDS UP!!

Kirk wasn’t just churning out party gospel, either. As great as Franklin was and is as a hype-man and ad lib master, his prevailing talent has always been his songwriting. He used his newly solidified multi-genre crossover appeal to round up Mary J Blige, Bono, contemporary Christian artist Crystal Lewis and he-who-shall-not-be-named for “Lean On Me,” an incredibly moving anthem for humanity and community.

To his point in the Jet interview, no one could argue that the doors of the church had opened that much wider, thanks to Kirk. Not only were all welcome, be they in traditional Sunday best or streetwear fly; people wanted to be part of it. Gospel’s reach outside of Sunday morning radio programming, AM stations, BET’s beloved Bobby Jones and gospel conventions saw continued growth following the two God’s Property albums.

In 1999, gospel duo Mary Mary (and producer Warryn Campbell) followed Franklin’s 80s sample, hip hop influenced formula to score a multi-genre hit with “Shackles (Praise You).” The sample of Dennis Edwards’ “Don’t Look Any Further” drove the single to success not only on the R&B and Pop charts, but also on the Dance chart, which propelled it internationally. Production virtuosos Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis scored a Top 10 R&B hit for Yolanda Adams with “Open My Heart.” A remix of the track cracked the Top 40 on the Dance chart. Gospel artists scoring No. 1 R&B hits and selling platinum albums were no longer anomalies. Secular producers working with gospel artists became more common.

TV was getting into the gospel game as well. After decades of being relegated to the Stellars, The Doves, and maybe one BET Awards performance, gospel was getting fresh looks. In 1999, VH1 added Franklin, CeCe Winans, and Shirley Caesar to a televised concert special. "Gospel music is no longer relegated to just the churches in the South," network exec Robert Katz told CNN at the time. "There is an emerging gospel music, a pulse that is all over the country.”

The game had changed.

This next part is far too familiar in stories of skyrocketing success: after the highest heights, there is conflict, because mo’ money, mo’ problems. And that goes double when you’re supposed to be about the Father’s business (just ask John Gray). On the heels of The Nu Nation Project, Franklin faced multiple lawsuits and a public battle with porn addiction. His next album, The Rebirth of Kirk Franklin, was a throwback to the sound and style of the early Family albums; traditional contemporary gospel. But it didn’t sell as well as his previous projects. Franklin found himself in a spiritual identity crisis. In a 2003 interview, Franklin revealed that he was unprepared for the success. “Selling a lot of albums and crossing over made me famous, and it gave me an audience. It gave me validation.” Abandoned by his parents at a young age, he was seeking attention and adoration, and when it came in the form of celebrity, it was addictive. “It was almost like I was the worst person God could have ever chosen…It’s like sending a crack addict to be a missionary in a crack house.”

Fortunately, Franklin bounced back, and relatively quickly. He didn’t go as hard as he had previously--he was older, youth culture had changed, and Kirk in a 4XL tee doing snap rap gospel would have been a bridge too far. But he went back to the formula that worked for him. The days of 17-person choirs were gone (thanks, label budgets), but flipping familiar hits is evergreen. Soul/R&B (Patrice Rushen, “Haven’t You Heard”), pop (Kenny Loggins, “This is It”), rap (Scarface feat. 2Pac “Smile”), all could be used to glorify and edify.

 

There’s more, though. Much like Puffy was once blamed in part for hip hop going too pop and getting too shiny, Franklin bears some weight in steering gospel music away from the traditional format of scripture-based gospel sung by choirs to the modern praise and worship format. The songs are simple and repetitive, and usually sung by small praise teams instead of choirs, led by worship leaders or soloists, and can be backed by tracks instead of musicians. In an attempt at being more radio-friendly, more gospel artists also stay in a Jesus-free inspirational lane. Is it a love song? Is it a gospel song? Who knows?!

Shortly after Andraé Crouch’s death, Franklin shared on his personal blog that he was embarrassed he’d dismissed Crouch’s style of gospel when he was younger, and expressed amazement at the wide recognition and respect Crouch enjoyed and how his music touched people of all walks of life. Things Kirk implied he’d thought only possible with crossover success. And now, the sound of gospel music had shifted completely. Arguably too much so.

“Our music doesn’t affect people the way it used to. It doesn’t create movements like it did during Andrae’s time. Is it because today’s worship leader is too busy trying to get the record deal, the applause, a higher church salary, and that crossover song? [The guilt is all over my hands, people!]”

Franklin may be more mindful now of the balance between blending and distilling, as many career gospel artists are tackling the question of how to restore their genre to former greatness – a question echoing throughout R&B and hip hop as well. Now, a gospel influence in hip hop and vice versa isn’t so foreign. There are even thriving Christian rappers. But Franklin is still one of the go-to’s when secular urban artists need a gospel OG. In 2016, almost two decades following the angry VIBE write-ins, Franklin found himself again facing questions about the appropriate line for gospel crossover when he recorded “Ultralight Beam” with Kanye. When asked about the backlash, Franklin’s answer to the The New York Times sounds like it applies to all the ups and downs of his career. “What I always have to remember is motive and intent: ‘Kirk, you know why you’re there, you know what God has put in your gut. Some of that will come and you will weather it.’ Christianity ain’t something you signed up for like a vacation. It’s not a first-class trip to Fiji. You’re signing up for the ridicule.”

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Kanye isn't that lame, but several of his anti-groupthink moves have only pushed him further into a shadow of the man we thought we knew. It's a challenging thought to someone like Cole, who like many, has been widely inspired by the super producer. It's a thought not lost on Cole with the release of "Middle Child." Cleverly released in the middle of the week, the Dreamville titan is confident in lyrical nature while sharing his perspective on an artist he once admired.

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While it may seem like Cole has inserted himself into Drake's battle with West, Cole's observations of the super producer go back to the days when Twitter had a favorite button.

The stars would rightfully align with him signing with 'Ye's "big brother," Jay-Z under the Roc Nation umbrella. From there, Cole and Kanye's paths would cross musically but that didn't stop Cole from being a voice of the people several times about West's involuted career.

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"I get a get a call from Mark Pitts and he’s like, 'Yo ni**a, Jay just hit me. He said he got something big for you.' I was like, 'Oh sh*t, what you mean?' He said, 'He got this Kanye track… something about a star is born…some sh*t about a star.' I thought, from his explanation, because you can tell he wasn’t too clear on it, I thought Jay just had a joint for me," he recalled to Complex in 2009. "I thought it would be mine, and I was on some sh*t like, 'Ahhh, I don’t like being told ‘get on this’ or whatever. But I’m like, 'Damn!'"

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He also expressed how he wanted to work on a joint project with West.

“I’m such a Kanye West fan,” Cole told Vulture. “I would love to work with him on a major scale. Not just a song here or a song there I would love to do something extraordinary with him, but I feel like I gotta step my game up and kind of earn my spot before I can worry about that.”

A year before, Cole would continue to pay homage with his verse on Young Chris' "Still The Hottest."

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Keeping it in the family, the Roc lineage continued on Cole World with Cole sampling West's "The New Workout Plan" for "Work Out," his official debut single in June 2011. The track hit platinum status and peaked at No. 8 on the Billboard charts in 2012.

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Myriam Santos

Giving Glory: Tori Kelly On Acceptance, Accolades And Allegiance To Her Faith

“I kind of feel like I was away for a bit after my first album, but now I feel like I'm just ready to get out there,” explains singer, songwriter and instrumentalist Tori Kelly over-the-phone to VIBE. The 26-year-old Cali native’s career took a brief hiatus between her 2015 debut and her latest project, however, it’s clear that she’s back and better than ever.

Kelly, who boasts a voice that possesses the power to bring even the most substantial sinners to their knees, recently announced she’ll be embarking on The Acoustic Sessions concert series beginning Feb. 25. This serves as her second tour since concluding a national excursion to support her Grammy-nominated album, Hiding Place. The latter is up for two awards at the upcoming 61st Annual ceremony — Best Gospel Album and Best Gospel Performance/Song for the Kirk Franklin-assisted chart-topper, “Never Alone.”

“I love writing songs and being in the studio, but being able to go out and perform them, and seeing the fans face-to-face and interacting with people, it's where everything comes together,” Kelly beams. She details that only her guitar will accompany her during the 26-date “no rules” tour, where she’ll be playing the tunes her fans have come to love as well as never-before-heard music, which will be featured on her upcoming project.

In addition to a new tour, the songbird is a newly-married woman; she tied the knot in May 2018 with athlete André Murillo. However, her romance hasn’t always been a walk in the park, an experience that she chronicles in her newest song “Change Your Mind.” The acoustic reverie, which was written and produced by Kelly and Jimmy Napes, allows the musician’s soaring vocals and delicate story to permeate. The nearly three-minute ditty pertains to Kelly’s parents’ early disapproval of her now-husband, and her father not giving them his blessing around the time of the proposal.

“No one ever said it was easy, and I love him, you gotta believe me,” she croons with raw and palpable emotion. “No it don’t seem right, but I’ll change your mind.”

"It's definitely a lot of different perspectives with family and support systems,” she says. “I think what it came down to was really that my parents and I are so close, and they're so loving and so protective in a good way, my whole life, my whole childhood. I'm also their first child. So, I think when you bring this new person into the mix, and I happened to fall in love with him, I don't think there's a lot of room for that. So, I think it just took a while for them to really be trusting and accepting.”

Despite some of the challenges she’s faced, Kelly finds solace in the fact that she’s never alone in her struggles. She hopes that through her music, listeners are able to heal any emotional wounds they may have also sustained.

“I just know that when I was going through this [with my family], it felt isolating,” she notes. “It was really hard, and I poured all that emotion into [“Change Your Mind”]. It was comforting in an odd way… It would be hard for any parent to let go of their kid, and I think really putting it into that perspective of like, ‘oh wow, people can be touched through the stories that I tell.' It's not just about me. It may be my story, but it's about other people, too.”

Kelly continues to keep her connection with her fans as strong as her faith. She received two Grammy nominations for her sophomore album, Hiding Place, which deviates away from the pop sound that brought her to public consciousness in exchange for an R&B-tinged nod to her Christian roots. The eight-song project features artist accompaniments from Lecrae, The Hamiltones and Jonathan McReynolds. Gospel music icon Kirk Franklin executive-produced the project, and is also featured on the duet “Never Alone,” which currently sits atop Billboard’s Top Gospel Songs chart.

Growing up in the church, Kelly says that it’s always “been in her heart” to do gospel. She explains that while working on her upcoming material, she decided to try her hand at a spiritual song.

“I just randomly was like, 'what if we put a gospel song on this album?'” she describes. “I remember artists doing that back in the day, like Destiny's Child and Mariah Carey, so I thought that might be kind of cool. I brought it up to my team, and they were all for it. Scooter [Braun], my manager, he said 'You should work with Kirk Franklin if you're gonna do gospel.'” One song with the living legend “turned into eight,” Kelly details with a laugh, and the accolades poured in for the final product, something she admits she didn’t expect.

“When we decided to put out a gospel album, I set my expectations kind of low, because I figured this might not be what everybody's used to, not everybody believes in the same things,” she adds. “I wasn't expecting anything would come from it, but the fact that people are listening and loving this special piece of work, piece of content that Kirk and I made, it's really humbling and awesome.”

When working with Franklin, Kelly aimed to soak in his musical gifts and lessons “like a sponge.” However, she said that they learned the most from each other just talking as people.

“He's just an inspiring person,” she says of the Grammy-winning gospel sensation. “When he walks into the room, he's just so open and honest, and he'll just admit things just openly, and just talk about overcoming things. It seems like we talked more about real-life struggles rather than music, to be honest. When we wrote "Never Alone," I found out that that was the first song he had ever written with someone, that he had co-written. He's used to working by himself… that was a huge honor for me for him to step out of his comfort zone and wanna write with me.”

To be nominated for Grammys for an entire body of work rejoicing and celebrating her faith is beyond words for Tori Kelly. This is the same faith that has helped her thrive in her career; it leads her not into temptation and delivers her from the potential evils that can come with being in the music industry. She’s equal parts blessed and highly-favored.

“I mean, my faith is just the foundation of everything, you know?” she says. “It's how I see the world, it's me at the core. I think that even if I wasn't doing music — although the music industry is really, really crazy — I think just as a person, [faith] just really grounds me and keeps me really confident. People are really important too, surrounding yourself with the right people, and having someone tell you when you're getting a little crazy, is great as well.”

“Just knowing that [faith is] my foundation, and being able to go into this crazy music industry, I’ll focus on the right things,” she concludes. “God loves me and created me exactly the way I am, he didn't make any mistakes, and I can't do this thing called life on my own.”

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Courtesy of HBO

Amanda Seales Talks 'I BE KNOWIN'' Stand-Up And The Wonders Of The "Responsible Ho"

It was 2012 and Amanda Seales had a choice to make. For years she was a host who could admittedly read the hell out of a teleprompter, but Seales had more to say. The only problem was agents didn't want to hear it, not unless the curly-hair Cancer was willing to participate in reality television.

" 'Unless you’re willing to do a reality show no one is interested in you,' those were words said to me by numerous agents," the 37-year-old reflected.

With her back against the wall, Seales produced a one-woman show titled "Death of The Diva" and used music, comedy, and characters to dissect the way reality television diminished the image of women. She didn't know it then, but it was her formal introduction to comedy. Fast forward seven years and Seales is now gearing up for her first hour-long HBO special. Titled I BE KNOWIN' and filmed in her old Harlem stomping grounds, Seales tackles everything from catcalling, sexual autonomy for women in their 30s (something she calls a vagenda) and those annoying co-workers who CC everyone on a work email.

The Insecure actress sat with VIBE inside HBO's New York City offices on a blistering cold January day and expressed the hope that those unfamiliar with her work even if they don’t like the message, "[they] respect the message."

VIBE: How long did it take you to prepare for your hour-long special? A few weeks? Months? Amanda Seales: I would say for any comedian who’s doing their first special the duration of your life is the amount of time. In terms of what material goes in and what material goes out, that was about nine months.

Did you have any other names for your special before you landed on I BE KNOWIN'? Yes.

Would you mind sharing some of those names? I was going to call it Dashiki Chic, and for the record, this might eventually happen. I was going to call it Dashiki Chic and I was going to ask the audience to wear their best Dashiki fabric and have them looking like the extras in a Black exploitation film. I wanted the artwork to be a reenactment of the Muhammad Ali photo that he took in Zaire where he’s standing in the Dashiki and he’s got the people behind him. I wanted to reenact that photo in Harlem.

So why did you decide not to do that? Well, the budget. (Laughs) The way the budget is set up...I was like, "You know what?" (Laughs) I also was like this is my first special and it should be personal. Lord willing, I’ll have the opportunity to do other specials that touch the people and topics in different ways, but I felt like with this first one, I should actually attach it to the uniqueness of the voice I’m bringing to the people. That’s where I BE KNOWIN' came from.

When did you first realize comedy was a vehicle or a platform that you could have an inconvenient or touchy conversation? I was always funny.

Were you voted class clown in high school? I was voted Most Talented from the Class of 1999.

 

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2009/2019 Amanda Diva to Amanda Seales. Still rockin my “diva” nameplate ring! More innocence to more wisdom. From the curls to the mic, living my life like it’s golden! (📸: [email protected] [email protected] )

A post shared by amandaseales (@amandaseales) on Jan 12, 2019 at 10:27pm PST

Shout out to you. Thank you. I was more the teacher’s pet than a class clown, but at the same time though, I was comic relief because I was fearless.

It was after realizing that hip-hop didn’t feel like the vehicle that I started with. I realized I needed to shift gears. I knew that I had a voice, and I knew that I had something I wanted to say. In 2012, I did my first self-produced one-woman show Death of The Diva and in that show, I used music, comedy, and characters to speak to the ways that reality television had diminished the image of the black woman, and not even black women, just women in television.

At that time, I literally could not get work. "Unless you’re willing to do a reality show no one is interested in you." These were words said to me by numerous agents. So comedy became a vehicle at that point for me to express not only my thoughts on this but my talent because up until then I was just known as a host. I could read the hell out of a teleprompter but I had other stuff to say, so that ended up becoming a vehicle I would use for years.

During the stand-up, you mentioned you have your Masters in African-American Studies from Columbia University that you're still paying for. I say that because I was hoping that maybe they’ll like, you know, lower the balance. (Laughs)

You titled your show I BE KNOWIN' and for someone who doesn’t have the funds to go back to school, what can they do so they too can be knowin' just as much as you? I think reading is essential and fundamental. Knowing what to read is also important. I think also adjusting how you use social media can affect what you know. A lot of us are plugged into a lot of fluff and you have to make a conscious decision to say, 'I want to have certain intellectual spaces come into my space' on a regular basis, whether it’s on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, etcetera.

I think another way you can be knowin' is by getting out and going to see places and spaces that are outside of your comfort zone. Whether it’s down the block or to another country. When I say, I be knowin', it’s not just facts. It’s about knowing myself and knowing there are other perspectives outside of mine that are also valid.

One of my favorite parts of the stand-up was your reference to the “Responsible Ho.” Ah yes. The Responsible Ho.

When did you first come to experience or encounter what a Responsible Ho is? Once you’re over 30 and you’re still single your consciousness of how you’re engaging is different.

It should be. Ideally.

I think in our 20s we’re expected to go through a ho phase, which is essentially having a sexual awakening that at its best, awakens you, but on your own terms.

The Responsible Ho is somebody who is conscious of their sexuality, owns it but is also accountable for how they move in that space. They’re not using youth as an excuse for doing foolishness. They’re not using ignorance as an excuse for doing foolishness. They understand that at this age you are not making mistakes you’re making choices.

How has your vagenda matured from when you first entered your 30s until now? I am at a place at this point where I am looking for moderation.

Explain moderation. I have come to understand that any excess on either side of the spectrum with these dudes becomes a problem for me.

Super facts, for me as well. So either hyper-hood or hyper-intellectual results in problems because both of them create hyper-ego. So at this point I know I’m hyper, so I need something to counter that. Moderation-nation! I need somebody who has money, but they ain’t crazy wealthy. They are knowledgeable, they seek out information, but they’re not a genius to the point where they can feel like they can be–

Condescending? Correct.

HBO has a wide audience, for those unfamiliar with Amanda Seales what do you hope they gain after watching your stand-up? That it’s authentic. I seek to be sincere and clear as possible and I want whoever’s watching this, even if you don’t like the message, respect the message.

You’re a public figure. How do you decide what parts of yourself to share and what parts you should let simmer? I feel like I need to simmer more parts.

Why? Because people get very comfortable with their accessibility to you and not everybody is considerate or careful with what that accessibility affords. The Internet has done that, where it opens you up to far too many people who simply don’t take into consideration that you have feelings and that you’re human, so they don’t.

You’re smiling. I’m just thinking. They don’t curate their accessibility to you. They take it for granted so it makes you say "I gotta chill out" because that’s a lot of slings and arrows by people who don’t really care about how you’re affected by where they land. So it’s been fun, but I definitely am going to have to shift.

It’s fascinating that you smile. To me, it’s like you haven’t let it get you down. Nah, cause f**k these hoes.

Sometimes I’ve asked public figures hard questions and they get sad. I can’t get sad. Look at what we’re doing. I’m in New York. You know what I’ve done in this city. I’ve literally waited for the train next to a crack pipe being smoked, waiting there like, "I hope my jacket doesn’t smell." (Laughs)

I Be Knowin' Listicle Supercut
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