(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
SAM SANDERS, HOST:
Hey.
BETTY: Hey, Sam.
SANDERS: How are you?
BETTY: Doing well, thanks. How you doing?
SANDERS: I'm good. I'm good. I want to ask you a favor.
BETTY: OK.
SANDERS: So you know how every few weeks or so, you tell me that if listeners to this podcast like you so much and NPR likes you so much, they should pay you?
BETTY: (Laughter).
SANDERS: So we don't pay you. And you're aware of that. You contribute to our show as a labor of love, which we thank you for.
BETTY: Oh, you're welcome. It's my pleasure.
SANDERS: (Laughter) But a lot of other parts that make the show happen need money. And this week, we are asking our listeners to donate to their local NPR stations through a specialized link that allows them to give in the name of this show.
BETTY: What a great idea.
SANDERS: I know. All right, so Betty, without any pre-rehearsed script from me, I would love for you to tell people why they should give. And then we'll give them a link to do just that.
BETTY: Well, let me tell you why I enjoy the show is because of the...
SANDERS: Because you're in it.
BETTY: (Laughter) No, you rat.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
BETTY: ...Because of the fresh approach. It's not just listening to the news, but it's getting the information about the news in a fun, entertaining - and this format just absolutely works.
SANDERS: That was very sweet of you. What's the link to give?
BETTY: OK, so the link is donate.npr.org/sam.
SANDERS: Well, thank you.
BETTY: You're welcome.
SANDERS: Is part of why you like the show so much is because I'm your favorite nephew?
BETTY: Could be.
(LAUGHTER)
BETTY: Could - you could have something to do with it, but I don't know. I really do think it's a great show.
SANDERS: OK, your check's in the mail.
BETTY: Is that, like, too much?
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: No, it's great.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
BETTY: Hey, y'all. This is Sam's Aunt Betty. This week on this show - senior policy correspondent for Vox Sarah Kliff and NPR film critic Bob Mondello. All right, let's start the show.
(SOUNDBITE OF RIHANNA SONG, "RUDE BOY")
SANDERS: (Laughter) Hey, y'all. From NPR, I'm Sam Sanders - IT'S BEEN A MINUTE. Each week, we start with a different song. I'll explain this song in a second. But first, as Aunt Betty said, we have two distinguished guests here today.
BOB MONDELLO, BYLINE: Distinguished.
SANDERS: In her Vox sweatshirt...
SARAH KLIFF: (Laughter).
SANDERS: ...Sarah Kliff, senior policy correspondent for Vox - host of your own podcast there called "The Impact" - all about how policy affects people. Thanks for taking a break from that to come talk to us.
KLIFF: Yeah, thanks for having me here.
SANDERS: We appreciate it. And a favorite of the show - Mr. Bob Mondello.
MONDELLO: Aw, thank you.
SANDERS: NPR film critic who always indulges me when I walk by his desk and say, should I see that movie?
MONDELLO: (Laughter).
SANDERS: And he always says, talk through me.
MONDELLO: The answer's always yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: So this song is one of my favorites, and I'm playing it for a very special reason. Do you know this song, either of you?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RUDE BOY")
RIHANNA: (Singing) Tonight, I'mma (ph) let you be the captain. Tonight, I'mma let you do your thing, yeah.
KLIFF: I know it, but I'm not going to be able to tell you the...
MONDELLO: Yeah, I can't think of...
KLIFF: ...Title.
SANDERS: Who's it by?
KLIFF: Well, this is embarrassing for my debut (laughter). I have nothing for you.
SANDERS: This is one of the most popular recording artists of our time.
MONDELLO: Beyonce.
KLIFF: Beyonce.
SANDERS: Uh...
KLIFF: Oh, no?
SANDERS: Just below her.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Rihanna.
KLIFF: Rihanna. OK.
SANDERS: Yes. This is a song called "Rude Boy." It's one of my favorite Rihanna songs. And I'm playing it because Spotify, this week, announced their biggest artists of the year, and the most streamed woman on Spotify is this lady right here.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RUDE BOY")
RIHANNA: (Singing) Come here, rude boy, boy. Can you get it up? Come here, rude boy, boy. Is you big enough?
SANDERS: She's so catchy. I also love how her entire public persona is just one big dose of WTF. She does not care.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: She just does what she wants and manages to be very, very successful in spite of all of that.
MONDELLO: Well, that's not unlike you.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Are you calling me the Rihanna of public radio? If so, I'll take it.
KLIFF: Take that title.
MONDELLO: You got it.
SANDERS: Yes, yes. All right, we are here to discuss what happened this week - fires in California, Al Franken out of the Senate. And we're going to wade into the health care implications of the GOP tax plan. And we brought perhaps the most preeminent thinker on such issues to do that with us, Sarah, so thank you for agreeing to be quizzed on it.
KLIFF: What I lack in Rihanna knowledge...
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: ...I can make up for in tax bills and health care bills.
SANDERS: That's what I want to hear.
MONDELLO: Gee, I thought he was talking about me.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: But first, as we always do, let's start the show by describing how this week of news and stuff felt for each of us in just three words. Bob, you're up first.
MONDELLO: Well, my three words are up in smoke.
SANDERS: OK.
MONDELLO: And it - obviously, this refers to the horrific wildfires in California.
SANDERS: Have you seen the video?
MONDELLO: Oh, my God.
SANDERS: ...Of the 405.
KLIFF: Yeah.
SANDERS: ...And the fire right outside the 405.
MONDELLO: Yeah, it's mind-blowing. And I - you know, I been - I spent the last week terrified for the Getty.
SANDERS: Yeah.
MONDELLO: ...In addition to being terrified for my friends who live out there. I mean, it's horrifying.
SANDERS: Now, say what the Getty is for those that don't know.
MONDELLO: I'm sorry. The Getty Museum is - it has maybe a billion dollars' worth of art in it and is directly in the path of one of the fires, and...
SANDERS: And way up in these woody, woody hills...
MONDELLO: Right.
SANDERS: ...That are on fire.
MONDELLO: And it was interesting because I - you know, my immediate thought is that you want to evacuate all the art. And apparently, the gallery says, basically - or the museum, rather - says that the safest place for the art is there in their building. And they started pointing out that, well, it's travertine on the outside, which is not flammable.
SANDERS: Yeah.
MONDELLO: And they planted - this was a fascinating fact to me. They planted the plants with the highest water content closest to the walls.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah. And - yeah.
MONDELLO: So I just - I didn't know you did that. I mean, it was...
SANDERS: Yeah. Also, their AC system pushes air out.
MONDELLO: Out, right.
SANDERS: ...Doesn't take it in, so the smoke doesn't get in the museum.
KLIFF: Wow.
SANDERS: And just to underscore, it's unprecedented. So far, more than 400 homes and businesses and, like, other buildings have been destroyed. For the first time ever, California officials used the highest color-coded fire warning ever - purple. This is, like, worse...
MONDELLO: I didn't even know there was.
SANDERS: ...than anything else.
KLIFF: Yeah.
MONDELLO: Yeah.
SANDERS: Parts of two major highways in the area - the 405 and the 101 - were shut down for days this week. That would be like taking a quarter of all the subway lines in New York City off the grid. It's that crazy.
MONDELLO: Now, it's not just that that I was thinking when I said up in smoke. I was thinking about - President Trump decided that we were going to move our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It's not happening this moment, but it is happening soon. And what the Palestinians are saying is that that throws out the two-state solution, basically.
SANDERS: And also, as Trump very forcefully was saying, that Jerusalem is now the capital of Israel - and that bucks decades of precedent.
MONDELLO: Right. So...
KLIFF: It seems to be causing protests in the region.
MONDELLO: I mean, I feel lately as if an awful lot of things are going up in smoke.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
MONDELLO: You know, this is crazy.
SANDERS: I mean, just to give you some sense - so, like, you saw those videos of people driving down the 405, and in their line of vision, the hills were on fire. The 405 is, like, the main artery for west LA. That's how everyone commutes in that part of the city.
KLIFF: Like, it looks like a disaster movie about something terrible happening in LA, except it is 100 percent real.
SANDERS: It's actually happening, yeah. So I am thinking about all of my friends and family in California and our listeners there, too, and everyone out there, hoping they stay safe. Sarah, what are your three words?
KLIFF: My three words are, it's not over. And it relates to this #MeToo sexual harassment discussion we've been having over the past few months in a number of ways. So I felt like we really saw, this week, a shift from media and Hollywood to politics with the resignation of Senator Al Franken earlier this week, Representative John Conyers stepping down, the longest-serving Democrat in Congress. I was thinking my three words might also be, it's getting weird. We just saw the resignation of Arizona Representative Trent Franks yesterday.
SANDERS: Because...
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: Because - and this is where the it's getting weird comes in. He asked two of his staffers to be surrogates for his child.
SANDERS: Oh, God.
KLIFF: ...Which is, like - he put out this statement. Him and his wife have struggled with infertility, you know, which is a terrible thing to struggle with but...
SANDERS: Come on.
KLIFF: Who decides this is, like, the OK place to look for a surrogate?
SANDERS: It's so "Handmaid's Tale."
KLIFF: And I think the other side, though, of it's not over is, you still have Roy Moore running his Senate campaign, and you see some more Republicans coming back to him as we get closer to this special election that's going to happen.
MONDELLO: Yeah. And not to mention that the president of the United States has bragged about contact that would be regarded in today's environment as...
SANDERS: Sexual assault.
MONDELLO: ...Horrifying. Right.
KLIFF: Right. And these men, they're still running for Senate.
MONDELLO: Right.
KLIFF: ...Still in office. So it's not over in two ways. We're seeing more allegations come out, but you're also seeing men hold onto these positions of power, particularly in the Republican Party. And I feel like you're starting to see a split between how Republicans and Democrats...
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KLIFF: ...Are reacting to these. Democrats are kind of doing a cleaning of house at this point, saying, we're the party that just does not find this acceptable.
SANDERS: And they aren't waiting for ethics committee rulings or other things. They're saying...
KLIFF: No, you really saw all the female senators come - Democratic senators came out in a wave on Wednesday, say - like, one after one, saying, we think...
SANDERS: Franken has to go.
KLIFF: ...You know, Franken has to go. And, you know, there was enough pressure to make him leave. Although, I will say, he gave a very bizarre kind of farewell speech.
SANDERS: Didn't apologize, didn't actually cop to the allegations and also said, but look at Roy Moore and Donald Trump.
KLIFF: Yes.
SANDERS: And full disclosure - we're taping this Friday around 10 a.m. By the time listeners hear this, who knows what else may have happened when it comes to allegations against powerful men. You guys, I have three words.
MONDELLO: Yeah.
SANDERS: They are, all the awards. I say this for a few reasons. One - we're entering awards season.
MONDELLO: We certainly are.
SANDERS: ...In terms of the Oscars and such. But secondly, the image that I cannot get out of my head this week was Colin Kaepernick. He was presented with the Muhammad Ali Legacy Award from Sports Illustrated, and it was given to him by Beyonce. She was onstage giving him this award, and everyone saluted him and thought it was a great thing. But it got me to thinking, what does that award really mean if he is still out of a job? And then I thought more about awards and such.
And we've seen, this week, Time magazine named, quote, "the silence breakers," as their people of the year. But some of those very women featured in that issue lost jobs or gave up careers or didn't get promotions because of the harassment they experienced, and that Time magazine cover is not going to give them that back. And I've been thinking a lot this week about, what does it mean to really acknowledge the effect of the loss that these people have suffered? And I don't think anyone's asking those questions yet.
KLIFF: Right. And I think, you know, you see a lot of, you know, what's going to happen to these men who are pushed out? Like, who's going to come in? And there isn't as much - it's harder to talk about an absence of something that never happened.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: And even - there's, I'm sure, countless women who aren't on the cover of Time magazine, who aren't getting awards, who have, you know, made decisions - you know, maybe because of certain comments, maybe because of things more serious than that - and who made decisions about their careers. I don't know of - I mean, we can't get those years back. We can't get their time and their - and that woman's or, you know, and Colin Kaepernick's career back. At the same time, my hope is that the, you know, silver lining of this is that there are women who will follow in their footsteps.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: ...Who will gain from this, who will be more empowered to speak out, who will, ideally, not have to speak out because it's been made clear, this kind of behavior isn't acceptable.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. You know, so much of this conversation - that it seems pretty surface in the way that we are addressing or not addressing certain things - it feels the same way as the kind of ways that we talk about race. We look for the easy cut-and-dry solutions - labeling someone as racist, firing that person, getting rid of that person. But we don't want to have larger conversations about how we play a role in systemic racism every day as part of our lives. And I don't know how, on hot-button issues like #MeToo or other stuff - how do we get to those sustained, prolonged, deeper conversations that are harder and not just black and white?
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: All right, time for a quick break. Coming up - more news of the week, a long-distance call to Alabama, where they're getting ready for that special election on Tuesday. And also, stick around because we'll hear from listeners a bit later on sharing the best things that happened to them all week. You are listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Sam Sanders. We'll be right back.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: We're back. You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, the show where we catch up on the week that was. I'm Sam Sanders, talking this week with Sarah Kliff in her - I love this Vox sweatshirt. I really want one now.
MONDELLO: (Laughter).
KLIFF: We need to get our store open.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: Right now, they're a hot item. You can't buy that.
SANDERS: You know, we have a store in our lobby. You saw when you came in, right?
KLIFF: I know.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: I have to get an NPR shirt to match my Vox sweatshirt.
SANDERS: Yeah.
MONDELLO: I have been begging them - and I will say this on the air as well. I want them to have a Bob Mumbrella (ph) so much.
(LAUGHTER)
MONDELLO: We have a Susan Stam-Bag and a Nina Totin' Bag, and it seems to me that we should have a Bob Mumbrella.
SANDERS: I'm down for that. I forgot to say, you're a policy correspondent and podcast host at Vox, Sarah. And Bob Mondello - what? - Bob Mumbrella - what is it?
MONDELLO: Bob Mumbrella. Wouldn't that be great?
SANDERS: Bob Mumbrella is NPR's film critic.
KLIFF: I would purchase one.
MONDELLO: I - thank you.
SANDERS: All right, guys, before we get back into the news, quick yes-or-no question, all right? In Virginia this week, officials put a toll on the I-66. The price of the toll lane is tied to demand and traffic volume, and the price can change every six minutes, right? At one point Tuesday morning of this week, the toll hit $40. So yes or no, would you ever pay a toll that high to bypass traffic?
MONDELLO: No. Not ever.
SANDERS: No. What about you?
MONDELLO: Oh, come on, really?
SANDERS: That means you would. That means you would.
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: Like, I mean - well, it depends on - I don't know, if you're - if it's, like, an emergency, yes. I'm just trying to think through the scenarios.
SANDERS: Yeah, yeah. I would definitely pay $40 to bypass traffic.
MONDELLO: Are you serious? You understand that that's less than 10 miles. We're talking about from the Beltway to downtown.
SANDERS: But 10 miles in crazy traffic is an hour or two.
MONDELLO: I'm sorry.
KLIFF: Can I expense that to work? Like, am I running late for something?
SANDERS: (Laughter).
MONDELLO: Ah, can you expense it? Now, that's the answer, isn't it? So people - so a lawyer who can send this to his firm...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: Yes.
MONDELLO: ...Will take - I hate this whole idea.
SANDERS: Well, I mean...
MONDELLO: I hate it.
SANDERS: Stay out of Virginia (laughter).
MONDELLO: I'm going to. I - we moved out of there when I was 4.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: All right, now it's time for a segment that we call Long Distance.
(SOUNDBITE OF DRAKE SONG, "HOTLINE BLING")
SANDERS: This is where we call a listener from somewhere out in the world and talk to them about the news in their neck of the woods. Today on the line, we have, actually, an old friend of the show, April (ph) in Alabama. Are you there, April?
APRIL: I'm here.
SANDERS: Hey, April, you're on the line with me and two of my friends, Sarah and Bob. How are you?
APRIL: So I'm doing good, just trying to navigate through this snow-sleet-hail thing that's going on down here.
MONDELLO: Whoa.
SANDERS: So it snowed all throughout the - my hometown of San Antonio got snow last night, April. It's crazy.
MONDELLO: Whoa.
APRIL: It's crazy.
KLIFF: Are they freaking out?
SANDERS: So how are folks doing with it out there?
APRIL: Not well, as usual.
(LAUGHTER)
APRIL: There's a lot of - it's kind of, like, going diagonally across the state, so it's not necessarily in every single part. But now they're saying that all of the freezing rain and hail that's coming down is going to freeze overnight and that we should be completely snowed out tomorrow.
SANDERS: Stay safe. Stay safe.
APRIL: I'm doing my best.
SANDERS: Yeah.
APRIL: Yeah.
SANDERS: So you're in Tuskegee, Ala. We talked to you back in July, and we discussed this special election that, at that point, was just ramping up.
APRIL: Yes.
SANDERS: And that was way before Roy Moore, the GOP candidate, got caught up in all these sexual assault allegations.
APRIL: Yes.
SANDERS: So we want to check in with you again and ask, several months later, what has it been like to live through such a big national news story? I mean, did you expect it to be this big of a deal?
APRIL: Not at all.
(LAUGHTER)
APRIL: I really thought this was going to go quietly like most of our in-state elections, even though it was for national government - just kind of expected it to be like, OK, the Republican candidate's going to win. Let's get as many people mobilized for the Democratic candidate as possible, but we all know how this is going to end up. And then it just - it didn't go that way at all.
SANDERS: Yeah. What has the mood been like in the state? Is it all that people talk about right now?
APRIL: Yeah. It is - there's a lot of other local things that are going on, but because it's been so in the media, in the national focus of things that are happening around the country, it's kind of like, this is really all that's been consuming a lot of people's energy and time. And it's been a lot. And I think the ads - I was watching some of our local news stations last night, and kind of like, the ads are getting more and more - and I hadn't seen them as frequently as I did last night. And I've seen, like - there's some crazy flyers kind of going around. And it's been very interesting, especially, to see where these flyers are being placed.
SANDERS: The crazy flyers - give me an example of how crazy they are.
APRIL: OK. Well, the one that just went out - one of my co-workers who actually lives down in Selma got this in her mailbox. Let me try to find the picture really quick. And then I saw it circulating through my Facebook feed, and some people in Birmingham had seen it. And it says, think if a black man went after high school girls, anyone would try to make him a senator.
SANDERS: Wow. Wow.
APRIL: And I don't know if that's by a - specifically Doug Jones, but it's been distributed. And, of course, these are things that we kind of think about - like, me being black, and a lot of people who living in the areas where they got them being black - these are things that we think about, conversations that we have to ourselves. Never would I have thought that...
SANDERS: This be part of the campaign - yeah.
APRIL: ...It would've come out as a part of a campaign flyer.
SANDERS: Yeah. So since you mentioned that flyer, our producers checked where that came from. This is a flyer basically asking, if Moore was black, could he be elected? And that did come from the Doug Jones campaign, turns out.
APRIL: Oh, wow.
SANDERS: They sent it out.
APRIL: That is shocking.
SANDERS: Who knew? Yeah, yeah.
APRIL: Right.
SANDERS: You know, there has been this narrative in press coverage of the upcoming race that black voters might not be that excited about the candidate for the Democrats, Doug Jones. A lot of folks have been saying that he hasn't done enough to get out the black vote, but we're going to see Cory Booker from New Jersey out there this weekend. Deval Patrick, former governor of Massachusetts...
APRIL: Yeah.
SANDERS: They're going to be campaigning, trying to get the black vote out. What do you make of the Dems and Doug Jones' outreach to black voters? And from what you can see, are black voters excited to vote on Tuesday?
APRIL: Some are.
SANDERS: OK.
APRIL: It just kind of depends on where you are. Like, he came to Tuskegee University, and that was actually shocking to me because I never expect political candidates to come out to my little school.
(LAUGHTER)
APRIL: But they came last Friday. And then there are a lot of the older people - not necessarily in Tuskegee but just kind of around, period - that are like, well, we've been supporting Democrats for this long, but what have Democrats done for us? It seems that - and this was also true in the last presidential election - that it seems that black folks are always voting for Democrat. But what are the Democrats really doing to help the black community? Kind of like, once they get in office, are they really going back to those communities and seeing what they need and enacting laws that protect those communities? And it doesn't seem that way. So a lot of older people are a little tired of it.
SANDERS: If you had to describe the mood of Alabamans as they get ready for Tuesday, having gone through a pretty drama-filled last few months - describe the mood of the state in one or two words.
APRIL: Overwhelming.
SANDERS: OK. OK.
APRIL: Overwhelming.
SANDERS: Yeah.
APRIL: And I think that's really because of the fact that we have been such in the national focus for the past few months. And the eyes of the world are on us. Like, we're always saying that we're, like, in constant competition for 50. You know, kind of joking around with us and Mississippi and stuff like that. But now, literally, the eyes of the world are upon us.
SANDERS: Yeah. Before I let you go, I want to give some news to our listeners. Since we last talked, you got engaged.
APRIL: Yes.
KLIFF: Congratulations.
MONDELLO: Congratulations.
SANDERS: What's his name?
APRIL: Thank you. OK. So his name is Dimitrius Alexander Finnley (ph). We met at Tuskegee. We were both a part of the Honda Campus All-Star Challenge team, which is a quiz bowl team for our HBCU...
KLIFF: I love it.
APRIL: ...Honda - the American Honda come through. And so, literally, the first time that I noticed him, it's like - we were on the team for months and we were cool. So the first time I noticed him, like, oh, my God, who is he was when he beat me on the buzzer.
(LAUGHTER)
APRIL: He was better than me. And I was like, who are you and why? So...
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: And now you're getting married.
APRIL: ...We used to be friends - exactly.
SANDERS: I love it.
APRIL: I'm so excited.
SANDERS: Well, we saw the photos of your engagement, and I want you to send some more photos from the wedding, too, OK?
APRIL: Of course.
SANDERS: All right. I hope you have a great weekend. Take care.
APRIL: All right. Have a great day, y'all.
SANDERS: All right. Bye. All right. Listeners, we want to talk to you for this segment, whether or not you just got engaged. If you want us to give you a call and talk about whatever's going on in your neck of the woods, drop us a note, tell me what's going on. We might call you up. Samsanders@npr.org.
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: All right. It's time to talk about our main story of the week. And this is a thing we want to talk about this week because we have Washington, D.C.'s pre-eminent journalistic health care expert, Sarah Kliff.
KLIFF: Thank you.
SANDERS: I want to talk about how this GOP tax cut affects health care because this GOP tax bill is secretly kind of a health care bill - right?
KLIFF: Yeah, it's kind of a Obamacare repeal in disguise.
SANDERS: Yeah. So I want you to unpack that for us. But first, I want us to discuss, briefly, where the bill is right now. A version passed the Senate. A version passed the House. But they're different in some big ways. What are the biggest differences between the House bill and the Senate bill?
KLIFF: So there are a lot of them. So some of the ones that jump out to me is that the House bill has a number of limitations on certain deductions. It would change the mortgage deduction, which is a big-ticket item for a lot of American house owners. It would get rid of a deduction that grad students rely on for their educations, where they're currently not taxed on their tuition waivers. And then one of the big differences I write about is the Senate bill would repeal the Affordable Care Act's mandate that everybody carries health insurance, which is not currently in the House bill. But I think now that it's passed the Senate, which is a little more moderate, that's going to come out in the final product.
SANDERS: And so that mandate that everyone have insurance - what would the effect be? What would it look like if that mandate went away?
KLIFF: Yeah. So what we know from, you know, conversations I've had with economists is two things would happen. In the Obamacare marketplaces - and I want to be clear, if you're someone who gets insurance at work, this is not you. We're talking about - 10 million people or so get coverage in the Obamacare marketplaces. Premiums would go up, and people would lose coverage. There is a debate among the health care nerds about how much premiums would go up. And the coverage loss would be in the millions. There is a debate about, is it 5 million? Is it 13 million like the Congressional Budget Office says? It's millions. We don't know how many. But these are the two facts we know - premiums go up. Coverage goes down.
SANDERS: Yeah. You know, something else in the bill from the Senate is a proposed big cut to Medicare. And Medicare is a federal program that gives health care to people that are over 65 or certain folks that are younger than that with disabilities. Why do they want to cut Medicare?
KLIFF: Yeah. So this Medicare cut is kind of a roundabout thing that's going on in the bill. So the Medicare cut - it isn't actually in the bill. If you read through the text, you probably won't find the word Medicare there. The thing that's going on is that the Senate Health - the Senate tax bill would raise the deficit pretty significantly. And that would trigger these rules that create automatic budget cuts all across the government. So, essentially, you raise the deficit. They say, we can't afford to spend all this money. CBO - the Congressional Budget Office - they ran the numbers, and they estimated that these automatic budget cuts would cut Medicare by $25 billion a year.
So I will say - we're hearing Republican senators say, no, no, no, our bill doesn't cut Medicare. Technically true. There's nothing in the bill that actually cuts Medicare. But that is how our budget rules work right now. So this is something Susan Collins has been talking a lot about lately, saying, no, we're going to fix that. I guess you can change the rules. You know, they are the Senate.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: They can change the rules. But that probably wouldn't go over well with the deficit hawks in the Republican Party.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: So it seems like this cut would likely be triggered by the bill, even though when you talk to Republican senators, they don't actually say it's their intention to cut Medicare. That is kind of what this bill is doing...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: ...In a roundabout way.
SANDERS: So then if you end up with a tax reform bill that cuts Medicare, takes away the mandate for Obamacare, have Republicans, essentially - will they have passed a repeal of Obamacare as we know it?
KLIFF: They will have repealed a key element of Obamacare - these marketplaces, essentially.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: So I think everyone and even Republicans recognize the mandate is really crucial to making the marketplaces work. It is so unpopular. If Democrats could have avoided putting this policy in the Affordable Care Act, they absolutely would have.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: Because, like, who wants the government to tell you to buy health insurance?
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: Like, that does not poll well. The reason they did it is because you need to get those healthy people in the market. And this is kind of a, you know, stick. There are also carrots - these subsidies to make health insurance cheaper. But there's also this stick meant to say, hey, we're going to charge you $695 for absolutely nothing if you don't buy health insurance.
So the expectation is that the marketplaces would really struggle. They would lose their healthy enrollees. Premiums would go up, as only the sicker people sign up for coverage. And you could enter this kind of death spiral. That being said, a lot of it is pretty uncertain. We have never repealed a health insurance mandate in our country. We don't have a lot of policy evidence on it. So how quickly things would unravel? Would states, for example, pass their own individual mandates?
SANDERS: Oh.
KLIFF: I was sitting in on a meeting they're having out in California yesterday over webcast. And California's already saying, well, maybe we'll pass our own individual mandate because we really like Obamacare...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: ...Out here in California. So it's a little bit unpredictable. But this is - the individual mandate repeal - I don't know if you remember way back a few months ago, there was this bill called skinny repeal. It was, like, the last...
SANDERS: Oh, I remember that.
KLIFF: So skinny repeal is basically repealing the individual mandate.
SANDERS: Got you.
KLIFF: That was basically what that bill did. And we would've considered that Obamacare repeal.
SANDERS: So this is still kind of that?
KLIFF: This is basically tacking skinny repeal onto the tax bill.
SANDERS: Onto tax reform.
KLIFF: And the thing that drives me crazy is when everyone was talking about skinny repeal, Republicans would say, we don't want to pass this policy. There was a crazy moment this summer where senators were saying, we'll only pass skinny repeal if the House promises not to pass it, too.
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KLIFF: We just need it as a vehicle to get to conference to really work out our health care bill. And now they're tacking skinny repeal onto this tax bill. And it'll have the same outcomes of millions of people losing health insurance.
SANDERS: Yeah. And even besides whether or not millions lose health care or not, the health care industry itself is a big driver of the economy as a whole. Billions of dollars are caught up in it. And thousands, if not millions, of jobs are in the health care industry. If you have a situation where 5 million less people have health insurance, how many jobs are lost through that?
KLIFF: Yeah. I mean, we just got the most recent job figures for the month. Health care is one of the robust - and has been one of the most robust - quickly growing industries in the country. Health care is one-fifth of our economy.
SANDERS: Wow.
KLIFF: I believe it's - if you added up our health care, it would be the fifth-largest country in all the world - like GDP.
SANDERS: Just the health care industry?
KLIFF: Just if you took our health care and turned it into, like, Healthlandia (ph), that would be the fifth-largest...
SANDERS: (Laughter) Healthlandia.
KLIFF: Which is a place where I want to live. That would be the fifth-largest economy. It would be about the size of Germany or so.
SANDERS: Oh, my goodness.
KLIFF: So it's huge. I keep thinking this Obamacare debate is going to end at some point.
SANDERS: Oh, it'll never end.
KLIFF: And I will cover something else. But it's been eight years, and it seems like it will be another ninth year of it.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: It just - it would be very, very chaotic. I think you're right - that it would very possibly collapse this key place where about 10 to 12 million Americans are currently getting their health insurance.
SANDERS: I predict that we'll be arguing over Obamacare for another decade. It's like the Cher of policy.
KLIFF: Oh, don't tell me that.
SANDERS: It's just there. It's just going to be there.
KLIFF: (Laughter).
SANDERS: You know, I have been reading over the last week or two all of the weird little things tucked into these tax bills, like a tax cut for private jet owners.
KLIFF: Yeah.
SANDERS: What's the weirdest thing you saw in both bills?
KLIFF: Oh, gosh. I don't know it well, but there's one about cruise ships...
SANDERS: Really?
KLIFF: ...That's in there.
SANDERS: OK.
KLIFF: I forget whose it was. But I saw it on - they had this long list of amendments. And then the other thing - this isn't a provision. But this is a weird thing you don't usually see in the bills - are handwritten amendments in the margins (laughter).
SANDERS: I remember seeing that.
KLIFF: So one of the crazy things on Friday night when this was passing...
SANDERS: Last Friday.
KLIFF: Last Friday night - so about a week ago, although it feels like months at this point in 2017...
SANDERS: (Laughter).
KLIFF: ...Is they were moving so quickly that a lot of the amendments and adjustments on the Senate bill were just being written out by hand because, apparently, it's like a whole process to actually get the text fit into, like, this very specific bill-fitting format. So you were literally seeing hand-written amendments on this bill.
SANDERS: And it was as if these senators found the folks in their office with the worst penmanship and were like, you write it in there.
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: And it became a great talking point for Democrats.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KLIFF: Like, look how fast they're moving. They're having to write this by hand.
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: So I have never seen that in legislation. That struck me as pretty weird.
SANDERS: Not have I. Nor have I. Well, there'll be more to come on this issue. And we'll probably have you back on the show, so we can talk more about it.
KLIFF: Oh, yeah. I'll still be covering health care, it looks like.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Before we go to break, just as a quick little dessert - when folks aren't reading about health care policy, Bob, they might go to the movies. What's the one film we should all go see this weekend?
MONDELLO: If you're in the right city, you can see "Call Me By Your Name." And...
SANDERS: What's that about?
MONDELLO: It's extraordinary. It's a gay love story set in Italy. It's one of the most beautiful films of the year.
SANDERS: Wow.
MONDELLO: It's really gorgeous. Got great reviews and it has the No. 1 - it's only in a few theaters but it had the highest per-theater average of any picture at all this year. If you're not in one of the select cities that's playing that, there's a new film coming out called "I, Tonya," which is about Tonya Harding.
KLIFF: Yes.
SANDERS: Oh, yeah.
KLIFF: I'm very excited for this.
MONDELLO: Oh, my God. It is so much. I mean, it's very funny. It's also - it sort of implicates us in her collapse, as it were.
SANDERS: Did you guys see - so Sufjan Stevens...
KLIFF: Yes.
SANDERS: ...Made a new song for the movie. And they set one of her ice dancing routines to the song. It is the saddest thing I've ever seen in my life.
MONDELLO: Oh, my. Well, Sufjan Stevens also did two songs for "Call Me By Your Name." I didn't know that was a connection. I'm so pleased to have made that.
SANDERS: Look at that. He's having a busy year.
KLIFF: Is the Tonya Harding - is it good?
MONDELLO: The Tonya Harding...
KLIFF: Yeah, movie.
MONDELLO: ...Movie is terrific. Margot Robbie is...
SANDERS: Who I've you have always enjoyed. She's good.
KLIFF: Yeah.
MONDELLO: She's terrific. But the real one is Allison Janney...
KLIFF: Oh.
MONDELLO: ...Who plays her mom.
SANDERS: Oh.
MONDELLO: And oh, lord.
(LAUGHTER)
MONDELLO: She's spectacular. This is going to be the year of the moms when we come to...
SANDERS: I love it.
MONDELLO: ...The supporting actress category.
SANDERS: Oh, I got you.
MONDELLO: Because you also have Laurie Metcalf on - in "Ladybird."
SANDERS: Which I hear good things about.
MONDELLO: Yes.
SANDERS: One thing you can't see this weekend at the theaters is that 21-minute "Frozen" short before "Coco." It's finally been pulled.
KLIFF: Oh, really?
SANDERS: Yeah.
MONDELLO: Good.
SANDERS: They pulled it.
MONDELLO: (Laughter).
SANDERS: They were like, no one wants this. All right. It's time for one more quick break. We'll be right back with my favorite game, Who Said That?
(SOUNDBITE OF FLEVANS' "FLICKER")
SANDERS: We are back. All right. It's time for my favorite game. It's called Who Said That?
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF ATLANTA")
KANDI BURRUSS: Who had been saying that?
PORSHA WILLIAMS: Who said that?
KENYA MOORE: Who said that?
SANDERS: The game is so simple it hurts. I share a quote from the week. You guys get to guess who said that. We'll do three or four of these. And the winner, as you probably know by now, gets absolutely nothing.
MONDELLO: Perfect.
SANDERS: Yeah. Yeah. All right. First quote - "She came in from the outside and was up in the rafters. And when she came through, she knocked a bottle of liquor off the shelf." Who said that?
MONDELLO: Not a clue.
SANDERS: I'll give you one more quote from the same story. "When she got down on the floor, she drank the whole damn bottle."
KLIFF: Oh, wait. I heard about - this was an animal.
SANDERS: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")
KLIFF: Was it an opossum?
SANDERS: It was a possum. I also love that you tossed that O on top of the possum.
KLIFF: Oh, yeah. You know...
SANDERS: Opossum.
KLIFF: So this - it went in, and it drank, like, a whole bottle...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: ...Of like whiskey or bourbon or something?
SANDERS: In Florida, of course, a possum broke into a liquor store, knocked down a bottle of liquor and drank the whole thing, basically.
KLIFF: And survived.
SANDERS: And survived. So they discover the thing. The police take this drunk possum to a wildlife refuge to be recuperated.
MONDELLO: (Laughter).
SANDERS: They give the possum fluids. And officials there said it wasn't that hung over. And then they just released it back into the wild.
KLIFF: OK. But how do you know if a possum is hung over?
MONDELLO: Exactly.
SANDERS: All I know is if possums don't get hung over, I want to be a possum.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Good job on that one, Sarah.
KLIFF: Thank you.
MONDELLO: Very good.
SANDERS: Means you're up one to zip. Next quote - "They'd say, like, she was hypnotized, right? And I'm, like, no, she's just evil. How hard is that to accept?" Who said that? It's about a movie.
KLIFF: "Get Out?"
SANDERS: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")
SANDERS: You're on a roll.
MONDELLO: It's true. You're wonderful.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: So that was actress Allison Williams. She played - and this is a big spoiler alert for those that haven't seen "Get Out" yet - she's one of the big villains in the movie "Get Out." And she was on "Late Night With Seth Meyers," basically talking about - even though her character was, like, killing black men, a lot of white folks, when they would see her in the streets, would say - they would look for ways to think of her character as someone who was good. And she'd say no. The character is bad. And they'd say, are you sure?
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS")
ALLISON WILLIAMS: Yeah. They'd say, like, she was hypnotized, right? And I'm, like, no, she's just evil. How hard is that to accept? She's bad. We gave you so many ways to know that she's bad. She has photos of people whose lives she ended behind her. The minute she can, she hangs them back up on the wall behind her. That's so crazy.
SETH MEYERS: Yeah.
A. WILLIAMS: And they're still, like, but maybe she's also a victim. I'm, like, no.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: And she said it was only white people that said that kind of stuff to her.
MONDELLO: And she's wonderful in the movie.
SANDERS: She's great in the movie. And apparently, she got that role - being the world's worst villain - after people like her in "Peter Pan." Who knew? She has the range. I like her.
KLIFF: I was thinking she's such a villain as Marnie on "Girls" that...
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Yeah, that too.
KLIFF: I can see her coming out there.
SANDERS: All right. Next quote and last quote. I would say that this is for all the marbles. But you've kind of already won, so...
MONDELLO: Yeah, you've won already.
SANDERS: (Laughter) The quote is, "Dear Santa, I'm only doing this for the class. I know your naughty list is empty."
KLIFF: It was an NPR...
SANDERS: Yeah.
KLIFF: It was the son of an NPR correspondent.
(SOUNDBITE OF MICROSOFT'S "TADA")
SANDERS: So friend of the show Sarah McCammon, who actually guest hosted the show before - her 6-year-old son was forced to write a letter to Santa in school. He didn't like it. So he went off in this letter. I'm going to read the whole letter in full. (Reading) Dear Santa, I'm only doing this for the class. I know your naughty list is empty. And your good list is empty. And your life is empty. You don't know the trouble I've had in my life. Goodbye. Love, I'm not telling you my name.
MONDELLO: (Laughter).
KLIFF: Also, another great thing - you should really go on Twitter and find this - is that it's decorated with, like, Christmas trees and, like, crossbones...
SANDERS: Yes (laughter).
KLIFF: ...And, like, skulls.
SANDERS: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: It's really a work of art.
SANDERS: It is the best thing I've seen all week. Sarah's tweet with an image of this letter went viral. It was even retweeted by J.K. Rowling. She got tons of press pick up. Sarah, whatever you're doing with those kids, it's a good thing. Keep it up.
MONDELLO: Absolutely.
SANDERS: I also want to follow up with Sarah's son to ask what these troubles are.
KLIFF: (Laughter).
SANDERS: Sarah claims the trouble he's talking about is his brother. But I won't believe it until I talk to the actual child himself. All right. You won. Congratulations, Sarah.
KLIFF: Thank you.
MONDELLO: Congratulations.
KLIFF: I wish I had a Mumbrella or something to celebrate.
(LAUGHTER)
MONDELLO: Well, with any luck, soon.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: All right. We are now done with our weekly wrap. Thank you both for playing. It was fun.
KLIFF: Thank you.
MONDELLO: It was great fun.
SANDERS: All right, Sarah and Bob. You're almost out of here. But first, a plug for our episode from this past Tuesday. I recently had the honor to talk to veteran journalist, long-time CBS anchor, now Facebook star, Dan Rather. We talked on stage in front of a live audience at the Brooklyn Academy of Music about his new book called "What Unites Us." We talked about how Dan Rather basically believes that the country is in a crisis right now but also why he thinks that there is reason for optimism. Going to play a cut of that conversation for you guys right now, in case you missed it. I asked Dan, basically, how he deals with the daily onslaught of the news that we're all dealing with right now.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
DAN RATHER: One thing I often say to myself - and don't misunderstand me - I go through those mornings where I'm saying, ooh. But one of the things that I remind myself is the value of not being cynical. Cynicism is a bad disease. Skepticism - yes. Reporters get paid to be skeptical. And I would recommend to every citizen wanting to meet their responsibilities, a certain amount of skepticism is necessary. But never cynicism. You know, in journalism, an old saying - you trust your mother but you cut the cards.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: It was just a joy to talk to him. He's also a fellow Texan, so I enjoyed that, too. But that episode, if you want to hear it, is in your podcast feed right behind this episode. So check it out. All right. With that, we're going to end the show as we always do. Each week, I ask our listeners to send us a recording of them sharing the best thing that happened to them all week. We encourage folks to brag. They always do, and it warms my heart. Let's hear it now.
AMANDA: Hi, Sam. This is Amanda from Richmond. And the best thing that happened to me all week was when my daughter piped up from the backseat and said...
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Who said that?
(LAUGHTER)
SAM: Hey. This is Sam from Munster, Ind. The best thing that happened to me this week was watching our 9-month-old miniature goldendoodle, Mabel (ph), encounter her first dusting of snow this morning.
SANDERS: Aww.
MAGGIE: Hey, Sam. This is Maggie (ph) in Denver, Colo. The best thing that happened to me this week is, over a plate of pupusas, my boyfriend Cody (ph) and I decided to elope.
SANDERS: Wow.
MONDELLO: Wow.
RAFAELA: I sent out my first job applications and, within the space of just one day, got two interviews.
SANDERS: Wow.
JULIA: I was seated on my local school board.
SANDERS: Congrats.
JOEY: Hey, Sam. This is Joey and my wife - say hi.
HOLLY: Hi. It's Holly (ph).
JOEY: And we are actually standing here at the California-Mexico border, where we have just completed our Pacific Crest Trail crew hike.
SANDERS: Wow.
MONDELLO: Wow.
MS. SUTTLES: Hey, Sam. It's Ms. Suttles (ph).
SANDERS: Hi, Ms. Suttles.
SUTTLES: And I just wanted to say that my favorite thing that happened all week is that all of my students read during quiet reading, and they made me very, very proud today.
UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE: Yessuh (ph).
SANDERS: (Laughter).
TAMEKA: Hi, Sam. My name is Tameka (ph). I live in Los Angeles...
SANDERS: Hey there.
TAMEKA: ...And I am a freelance makeup artist. The best thing that happened to me this week was after being in LA on the grind, as they say, I got a chance to go to a screening of a short film. And my name was in the credits. And it was such a proud moment for me...
SANDERS: Congratulations.
TAMEKA: It definitely made my week, and it helped my self-esteem.
SANDERS: Yeah.
CORINNE: Hey, this is Corinne (ph) from Missoula, Mont.
SANDERS: Hi.
CORINNE: And the best thing that happened to me this week is that we just found out my husband's first CT scan after starting a clinical trial for his stage 4 colon cancer recurrence came back good.
SANDERS: Oh, man. That's good news.
CORINNE: Really good. The drugs are working, and...
SANDERS: Thank goodness.
CORINNE: ...We know the future is uncertain, but today isn't. Today is just a really good day.
SANDERS: That's awesome.
CORINNE: Anyway, thanks guys. Love the show.
LEANNE: Hi, Sam. This is Leanne (ph) calling from Buffalo, N.Y. The best thing that happened to me this week is last Saturday, I was grocery shopping with my 2-year-old son. And an older gentleman approached us. He was wearing a Vietnam veteran's hat. He handed me a dollar and said, buy the little guy some candy. My wife of 53 years always did this. And I do this in her honor.
SANDERS: Oh, man.
MONDELLO: Wow.
LEANNE: I was really, you know, overcome and ended up embracing a complete stranger in the dairy department of our local Wegman's. So that was the best thing to happen to me this week. Thanks.
JOEY: Take care.
TAMEKA: Thank you so much.
JOEY: Bye.
HOLLY: Bye.
TAMEKA: Bye.
SANDERS: Oh man. That's so sweet.
KLIFF: Wow.
MONDELLO: That is lovely.
SANDERS: Thanks to all the folks you just heard right now - Amanda, Sam, Maggie, Rafaela (ph), Julia, Joey and Holly, Ms. Suttles and her students, Tameka out in Los Angeles, Corinne and Leanne. Thank you all for that. We listen to everyone that comes in. We wish we had time to play all of these submissions, but we don't. But still, share them with us. Every single one - we listen to it. If you want to share your best thing all week, you can do so at any point throughout the week. Just record your own voice and send the file to me at samsanders@npr.org. Samsanders@npr.org. With that, momma, we made it. We're done.
(SOUNDBITE OF RIHANNA SONG, "RUDE BOY")
SANDERS: Rihanna's going to take us out. Often, for no reason at all, I'll be sitting, doing work or something. And I'll say to myself, I wonder what Rihanna's doing right now?
(LAUGHTER)
KLIFF: And it's probably fabulous, whatever it is.
SANDERS: Whatever it is, she's just doing a great job of it. All right. This week, the show was produced by Brent Baughman and Anjuli Sastry. Our director of programming, Steve Nelson, helped out, as well. And we had some editing help this week from Jeff Rogers. Our big boss is NPR's VP of Programming, Anya Grundmann. Sarah, Bob, thank y'all.
KLIFF: Yeah, thanks.
MONDELLO: This was great.
SANDERS: Also, a special thank you to all of those who caved to the pressure and gave to their local NPR stations through our special link, which is donate.npr.org/sam. It's not too late to give. When you give through that link, every station that gets your donation knows that you did it because we asked you to. And that means a lot for us. So please do that. If you go to donate.npr.org/sam, you can find your local station and tell them I sent you there to give. So that would help us out a lot. All right. Refresh your feed Tuesday morning to hear a hilarious chat with Internet celebrity and professional complainer Matt Bellassai. Until then, do what Rihanna would do and live fabulously.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: Thanks for listening. I'm Sam Sanders. Talk soon.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RUDE BOY")
RIHANNA: (Singing) Come here, rude boy, boy. Can you get it up? Come here, rude boy, boy. Is you big enough?
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