Field test: Shooting Roller Derby with the Olympus OM-D E-M5 II: Digital Photography Review

Article

James McDaniel is a self-taught photographer with a special interest in roller derby. He's also a Micro Four Thirds shooter, so when we were looking for someone to test out the E-M5 II in the real world with us, we immediately thought of James.

Watch our latest field test video to see how the camera performed on game day, and don't miss an opportunity to see our very own Allison Johnson in action, and editor Barney Britton trying out roller skates for the first time in his life - all for the sake of camera testing.

We've also added a selection of shots from Roller Derby to our E-M5 II sample gallery

Comments

Total comments: 198

@nerd2;

In terms of your "Oly (and fuji) inflating ISO values is a fairly well known and consistently observed by many.".

True, "Oly (and fuji) inflating ISO values is a fairly well known". That's why DPR thought Oly has better Higher ISO performance.

That's why DPR mistakenly thought Oly (and Fuji) has better Higher ISO performance in their review.

But, can you tell us which camera maker who DOES not inflate the ISO?

Yes?

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

So was this entirely shot on these cameras? Impressive if so! Ah ... never mind, read below ... but the Oly slo mo footage looked fine. But I doubt it was shot in 4K, since that would take an external recorder ... and just isn't necessary for web content.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

No - except where noted this video was shot on a Sony 4K system.

0 upvotes

I watched all the way through the end credits to see the gear info - would be great if you could include this technical production data in future episodes.

0 upvotes

My adventure at the Rollerderby in Connecticut....
http://robertcooper1127.tumblr.com/post/113469265414/rollerderby

1 upvote

What did you think? Did it make sense, or is another visit required. :D

0 upvotes

Some nice moments ... but perhaps fill flash would help on some of those shots.

0 upvotes

Play your cards right and DPR might visit you for a video about the EM1 mark II.

0 upvotes

Great vid review, nice to see some actionfootage and real-world usage.

I have a hard time accepting these "sharp" images when even the small thumbnails shown were loaded with noise.

To bad since the camera, features and design seems excellent and small lenses giving good results (though obviously never tested on anything higher than 16mp) Just wished the noise was better. Even at native iso it is easy to see noise when croping.

I hope Sony gives the next generation batch to Olympus some upgrades.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

They're noisy because they're shot at ISO 6400+ on the whole but they're in focus.

1 upvote

Wow, it is a tough crowd.
How many of you have tried to shoot such a fast moving subject in such dim lighting? This would be a challenge with FX gear and you'd have to resort to full on f/2.8 FX primes.
Yes, I agree the pics are not museum of fine art worthy, but for what they are or are meant to be they seem just fine.

I think most are reacting to the large DOF and are expecting more OOF backgrounds. That's just a limitation of the format and available lenses.
Would have liked to seen the 42.5/1.2 Pany being used (why just Oly lenses?).

3 upvotes

Dim light? I checked he exposure and it is around f2.8 1/500 at oly iso 6400 (which is inflated and more like iso 3200 for other cameras) and no subject is actually moving towards the camera.

I am pretty sure that any modern aps dslr paired with cheap 3.5-4.5 zooms can take better results at fraction of the cost. Yes and i have been shooting sports for years, since D1 era.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

(which is inflated and more like iso 3200 for other cameras)
This is wrong. You really should learn what you're talking about.

3 upvotes

Why just Oly lenses?

Because it's loaned equipment, directly from the manufacturer. In exchange, DPR does these informecials. Olympus would be crazy to turn down that kind of free publicity or to allow a rival (Panasonic) to shine when Olympus should get all the limelight for this occasion.

1 upvote

Oly (and fuji) inflating ISO values is a fairly well known and consistently observed by many.

2 upvotes

"In our tests we found that measured ISOs from the E-M10 were accurate, meaning ISO 100 indicated is equal to ISO 100 measured." - DPR

"In our testing, the E-M1's images were consistent with the ISO standard - ISO 100 = ISO 100." - DPR

Try again.

8 upvotes

Well, dxomark clearly thinks otherwise:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-II-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M1___1006_909

While iso is consistent with the standard at iso100, it's off a whole stop for the EM5-II and about 2/3 of a stop for the EM1 at higher sensitivities.

I honestly cannot come up with a lot of explanations for this behaviour short of cheating for the sake of better benchmark results...

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

The link you provided doesn't show that nor does it reach any sort of conclusion.

0 upvotes

Click on "Measurements", then "ISO Sensitivity".

0 upvotes

First of all, forget about ISO 100. Base ISO is 200 with Oly cameras.

Most importantly you should read what DXO says about "underexposed RAWs":

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Pushed-ISO-Let-s-make-it-clear/RAW-ISO-measures-are-inferior-to-manufacturer-ISOs-is-this-a-problem

You don't even need to depend on others to test "ISO cheating", you can test it yourself. Take two cameras, use lenses with the same light transmission (or the very same lens if possible) and then take shots of the same scene with the two cameras. If exposed correctly, the exposure values should be (nearly) the same. One EV difference should be easy to spot after all.

1 upvote

"First of all, forget about ISO 100. Base ISO is 200 with Oly cameras."

Are you sure? For me it looks more like iso100 is the base sensitivity of the sensor and they are underexposing by 1 stop by default to retain highlights for iso 200 and above, similar to what various DR modes do on other cameras. Sensible design decision IMHO, as many modern sensors have crazy dynamic range in the shadows.

And you are right about the other topics, I'll should take my words back, it's not cheating when exposure time/f-stop are the same for a given iso value and light level, but just another approach for image processing, exchanging shadow dynamic range for highlight headroom.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Yes, pretty certain about ISO 100. It's not been in every camera, but when it is there, it always comes with the warning that it comes with the risk of highlight clipping, with ISO 200 always as the prefered ISO setting.

There was also a recent Olympus interview at DPR, I think it's the one talking about the possibility of the hi-res mode handheld. They recognize wanting to lower the base ISO but pass on the blame on their suppliers (Sony/Panasonic) for not offering that capability in their sensors.

0 upvotes

I too thought it was a video test of the camera shooting moving subjects. But I'm always looking for something with global shutter-like qualities so I guess that is what popped in my head

0 upvotes

I've seen Allison in person and would have never thought of her doing roller derby . . . good for her!

Nice video.

3 upvotes

Nice video, terrible photos...

8 upvotes

Please explain what is so terrible about the photos. And can you do better? Please show us.

1 upvote

No composition, no value added by photographer, just average mindless point and shoot. I see a lot of photos like this around, but I belive Dpreview can do better. Plus the technical quality looks like it's from APS-C DSLR with kit lens.

Feel free to check my photogallery: www.artofsport.cz

7 upvotes

Had a look. Nah, I think Donald Chin does much better work.

Oh, what's that? I'm not supposed to troll the professional sports photogs when they act like jerks. :P

I had a look at your art of sport page. Great shots, but entirely useless for what the Roller Derby people are looking for. I suspect you know that though.

6 upvotes

Yes, my (for example) Dakar photos are useless for roller derby people, great observation ;)

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Damn. I forgot the inverse correlation between the calibre of some sports photogs on this site, and their ability to understand basic concepts.

4 upvotes

No problem, apology accepted ;)

1 upvote

Gee all this time I've just looked at sample photos from a technical aspect. Now I see some actually expect the folks testing the equipment to achieve award winning photos!

1 upvote

But they are not good even from a technicalk aspect :D

3 upvotes

I don't care about Martinka's photo gallery but I do think the roller derby pics are very point and shoot looking and they do a disservice to the EM5II. Olympus should have sent these guys to Hawaii, Vancouver, Maine, Alaska, or the next block over...

3 upvotes

DPReview, please hire Martinka for shots. : )

2 upvotes

I did reviewing for local photography magazine for two years, quit last year, it was too time consuming

3 upvotes

I kinda agree with Martinka. I'm not an event/sports photographer so i doubt i could do better, but i'd say the Photos are nothing special. They cover the event and I don't think the equipment is the problem, there's just nothing that stands out. Maybe that OMG moment never came, maybe the photographer wasn't ready when it did come. No photo makes you wonder how it was taken. No photo surprises you with its creativity.

It is common to complain about sample photos at DPR. I know. They rarely satisfy.

Photos aside, the video was well produced and it gave a nice overview of the camera which, I think, is what really matters.

2 upvotes

Tough crowd.

9 upvotes

Don't worry Barney. I think what Martinka means, is that if you tilt the camera to about 30 degrees off horizontal you'll get a much better look, like he does. My daughter does this on instagram very successfully too. See http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3790254#forum-post-55188360 for examples.

2 upvotes

Ah, yes, Maybe that's it.

0 upvotes

For any sports photography, you just need sharp, well isolated from background, clean image of something interesting. Another option is pan the subject to make the image more dynamic.

Those pics are technically not satisfying. Compositions are confusing (not a full close up nor a full shot), not quite dynamic, and there are tons of distracting backgrounds around.

And most of those issues came from equipments - lack of reach, lack of background blur, lack of fast fps.

1 upvote

Amateurs always blame the equipment.

If only I had more than 10fps, I could have caught the moment. If only I had 1 or 2 extra stops of DoF control, I could have made this uneventful photo more interesting. If only I had more reach, I could have stayed at my spot and lazily took photos from there.

2 upvotes

If you'd like to give me 10-15 grand or so, I can put together a rig that would satisfy your requirements, nerd2. Something like a D4 and a 200f2 would be the place to start.

Armchair criticism is easy. Roller Derby is easy to access. Go shoot some and report back.

A few people here seem to be under the impression that the goal behind shooting derby is to grab a handful of shots for your blog. That is incorrect. The photos are usually for the players so they can see the bout from a more relaxed viewpoint (as opposed to being in the thick of it). Finding some nice artsy shots is a bonus, but that's the sort of thing you play around with when there are enough other photogs providing decent coverage of the bout.

And, as I mentioned before, if your plan is to use DoF to isolate players, then, IMO, you're doing it wrong. It's not the best tool for the job. A much better approach is to isolate with lighting.

Precious few of the greatest sports photographs fit your list of requirements.

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Another fun video @Barney, but yeah expect tough crowds when you do mirror-less for sports. But let's get you to a major American Sporting event @Barney - eg college or pro - that pays for the shot(s). Then mirror-less will go to the wayside and 7d2+ canon glass will get gold at dpreview for the $ invested in gear as it generates many more returns, and is a sports artist's brush, that your site thought was a general camera to be rated by a general checklist.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Problem is that those pics were taken with $4K amount of gear, not a $500 entry DSLR with kit lenses.

For that kind of event and $4K budget, I'd rather use D700 (now dirt cheap, still have great high ISO capability, 8fps, pro ergonomics) paired with f4 lenses (1 stop faster than oly lenses in equivalence)

2 upvotes

And you'll end up with similarly noisy photos with such an ancient FF camera, not helped with the F4 limitations of your zooms for exposure.

With 12MP, you will also be limited in reach not be able to crop as much. If you try to compensate with longer lenses, be prepare to pay with money and extra weight to carry. No crop factor to help you here.

But you still get your extra stop of DoF control. Woo-hoo! Take that, m43!

Fortunately, it's 2015 and not 2008 so there are more choices around.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

1 upvote

Yeah, we've already seen your earlier efforts in this thread, nerd2. We don't need another bait and switch from you so soon.

What happened to the need for "For any sports photography, you just need sharp, well isolated from background, clean image of something interesting." Did you decide that wasn't a goal worth following up on?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

"A few people here seem to be under the impression that the goal behind shooting derby is to grab a handful of shots for your blog. That is incorrect. The photos are usually for the players so they can see the bout from a more relaxed viewpoint "

The goal behind every shooting could be whatever. The goal behind this field report was to show readers that 4000$ mirrorless gear is capable of shooting roller derby. Was the goal succesfully filled? I don't think so. Images are really bad, both from technical and aestethical aspect. And it's definitely not just camera's fault, but also photographer's.

2 upvotes

And even if all his f4 zooms have optical stabilization, it's less effective than the EM5 II IBIS so nerd2 will have to shoot at higher ISOs in such a dark environment to compensate. I don't think the results would be particularly pretty.

He could always shoot with a tripod but then he'd be conceding m43 is better hand-held. Poor nerd2. So close yet so far.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

bluevellet: 5axis stabilization for shooting roller derby like in the video? Tripod? Please, do not post about things you know nothing about.

2 upvotes

I wasn't talking to you actually.

And yes, I knew what I was talking about.

Stick to your initial criticism about the video vs the photos otherwise.

0 upvotes

D3/d700 still have vastly better high iso performance than any m43 to date. And Oh yeah, 5 axis ibis is crucial for action photos with 1/500sec shutter speeds or faster.

After all its your money, and its up to you which gear to invest.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Well, let's look at this claim.
D700 is about 1 stop better than an OM-D at ISO 3200-6400 (See DXO). You'd be shooting f4, and the OM-D at f2.8, so there goes any IQ advantage with respect to noise, etc. You do get 1 stop DOF advantage. Obviously if the M4/3 needs to go to 6400, then you're SOL.

So, with regard to IQ, there's almost no difference.

Ok, how about weight.
Well, D700 + 24-120f4 + 70-200f4 = ~2.55kg
And E-M5II + 12-35 + 35-100 = ~ 1.16kg
Quite a substantial difference there.

And finally cost
According to B&H $3542 for the Nikon kit, and $3599 for the M4/3s kit. However, for the Nikon kit you get a B+ second hand body. Oh yeah, D700 is 5FPS, unless you add a grip. That's another $300 and 300gm (plus batteries).

Yep. That looks like an awesome deal to me. :P

If you want to isolate roller derby with DOF, then for your "needs" I think you probably need to be around 200 f2. That's the lens you want. Start there and work backwards. :P

1 upvote

The Nikkor 150 f2 is a spectacular lens indeed, but "starting there" would mean breaking the 4k limit just with this lens. I think that was the point of bringing up this lens. :p

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Well, what would you use to isolate using DoF? The 70-200 doesn't cut it (I shoot alongside FF users using that lens. We all have problems with cluttered backgrounds - not surprising as there's less than a stop in DoF, between the 70-200f2.8 and the 75mm f1.8).
PS. I don't know any Nikon 150f2. I was thinking the 200f2.

0 upvotes

My father uses em1 with 2.8 lenses, and theres no way m43 body has only 1 stop disadvantage from d700. I even think the ancient 5d is still a much better performer at iso 3200 than em1.

Also portrait grip is a must for any serious shooting imo, which oly charges as much as nikon too.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

1 upvote

So you don't believe DXOmark?

Oh, but look at your other comment. Looks like you do believe DXOmark for ISO (You just don't know what it means).

What other fallacies will we see from you today?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

No, no, martin, you were right. You gave a lens that nerd2 could actually use to "destroy" m43, but you busted his budget in the process. I think that's the point, many of his claims are flaky and unrealistic and that's why people punch holes in them.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting

1 upvote

The snarky attitudes here are beginning to make DPR worthless.

4 upvotes

Great camera..weird sport. Thanks DPR :)

1 upvote

Was the video shot with the OM-D E-M5 MII?

3 upvotes

Some of it was apparently, but DPR says it most of it was shot on some unknown 4K camera. Many believe it's the A7s, but to avoid camera system wars, no official confirmation. :)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

1 upvote

"Many believe it's the A7s, but to avoid camera system wars, no official confirmation."

Well, as I've said in a couple of other comments, this video was mostly shot on a Sony A7S. Is that official enough?

6 upvotes

DPR can come off as remarkably defensive and even smarmy, can't they? Especially for an organization that otherwise seems to embrace an appropriate journalistic detachment. You folks cast judgement for a living; one would think you'd have a slightly thicker skin.

3 upvotes

I think you may be radically misinterpreting my last comment.

8 upvotes

You'd like to think so. But Barney, this wasn't exactly your first comment in these pages, was it? What compels you to spend so much time in these forums self-consciously responding/reacting/defending/objecting? Maybe if you worried less about how people were reacting to your reviews, you could actually dedicate yourself to writing more reviews.

3 upvotes

@Looleylaylow
Huh? You actually dislike DPR staff interacting with the readership in the comments?

2 upvotes

Seems like you're baiting me, @ Looleylaylow.

1 upvote

You've never needed baiting, Barney. And I'm not trying to draw you into an argument. You do good work, and I take it seriously. It's harder to do that when you undermine it with smug comments in these forums, that's all.

3 upvotes

Oh dear - never smug, I hope. Hair pulling-outedly frustrated, often, but hopefully never smug. Glad you appreciate the work.

0 upvotes

Great video. We need more roller derby in Canada.

3 upvotes

You mentioned in the video that you like the sound of the shutter, so do I. It sounds almost identical to a Leica M7, which is a camera that I used to own and still miss. Also, you guys and gal did a fantastic job!

2 upvotes

The editing of the video is excellent. Short,interesting and complete. Well done!

8 upvotes

This is Lou, isn't it...

3 upvotes

I don't get it. $1099 body + $899 12-40 2.8 + $1499 40-150 2.8 + 45 1.8 = whooping $4K worth of gear, frequent lens changes and only 5fps.

I could use D750 + 28-300 lens combo to take approximately the same outputs, while much less hassle overall (cheaper and lighter, does not require lens change, faster AF, faster fps, comparable DOF, comparable resolution etc)

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

It's already a well known fact on this site that you don't get it. :)

19 upvotes

lol you buy a D750 then strap a soft lens like the Nikkor 28-300on it.

5 upvotes

Nice try...haha...

2 upvotes

@nerd2: You can't calculate that way. There are very good kit offers, you would never ever pay that much.
And furthermore: No need to get all these lenses. Choose wisely and one lens will be enough in this case.

4 upvotes

*facepalm*

2 upvotes

that's like saying people are foolish for paying $1000 on a 12-40 pro zoom when they can get a $250 kit zoom... disregarding that the pro zoom is heads and tails better than a plastic janky kit zoom.

but why stop there when you can get a point and shoot with a 10x zoom clearly written on the barrel..

next time you might want yo try comparing like for like.

0 upvotes

Huh?

0 upvotes

Now add another lens to get to 24mm. And another lens to beat the 75mm, and another lens to beat the 45mm. Actually, you're shooting derby, so perhaps the 70-200 f2.8 would be a good choice and will cleanup the M4/3 primes. So now we're back at D750 + 24-70 + 70-200 (and a janky 28-300). Now we're up above 4kg of kit. That's not looking so fun anymore but at least you'll be able to say you can beat the M4/3s kit. :P

Of course, that's assuming you plan to use the camera for one job. Now add macro, wildlife, etc into the mix. That's ok, 150-600mm lenses are now common. What's another couple of kilos. :D

Then, leave it all behind and buy a superzoom for when you go travelling.

Ahhh, cameras. :D

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

28-300 is reasonably sharp (to resolve 16MP at least), and all of those pics are taken at high ISO where noise kills most of the sharpness anyway. Just download originals and see. None of those pics are pixel sharp.

Of course more sensible choice for indoor sports will be f4 combo (24-120VR + 70-200VR) or even third party f2.8 lenses but then the results will be totally in different league and not really comparable. What I am saying is this kind of shooting situation is the worst case scenario for m43, and is really not any better than pairing f5.6 superzoom to D750

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

1 upvote

First was the bait, and now comes the switch. :P

5 upvotes

What I don't get is your motive for engaging in a sophomoric and reductivist campaign against m43.

What do you gain from repeatedly making a fool of yourself with oversimplified comparisons? What makes you think you know which gear this guy should be using better than he does?

Is it possible that a photographer might have good reasons - subjective or not - for using m43? Is it possible that you might have no idea what those reasons are?

Part of growing up is learning that other people know what works for them better than you do. Put down your ego and stop acting otherwise.

9 upvotes

Its not just myself that says those pics look like ones taken with slow kit lenses, while taken with $4000 amount of gear.

2 upvotes

Great job Barney and James!
Really new way to make reviews.
Fun and useful :)

5 upvotes

As with the previous a6000 field test video, I am curious to know how DPReview team managed to find photographers who actually use the particular camera system in question.

3 upvotes

I believe he posted what he did on the forum, then DPreview took notice and posted a story about it.

4 upvotes

Actually I've known James for years through mutual friends. We featured his M43 Roller Derby work on dpreview last year, too.

8 upvotes

Very good and informative video on capabilities of such a small camera. Details like cat's meow and Annie leave-em-in-bits makes it great fun to watch too! :-))
Great job people!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 42 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

Another great video! I would like it even more if you only used the camera in question for making the whole field test. I dont think this video is made for pulling framgrabs and study them at 200% anyway??

So, could you reshoot the whole E-M5 II field test hand held using 24 fps All-I and 60 fps @ 50 Mbps slowed down to 24 fps? Thanx in advance!

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting

1 upvote

That was really fun and informative to watch. My former roommate in Chicago is in The Windy City Rollers.

As a camera newb (I don't even own a camera), I really enjoyed being informed with the real world use of the equipment and seeing the size of it in someone's hands.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

3 upvotes

Excellent video! I find these real world experiences to be much more relevant than the technical discussions like ISO invariance and equivalence. Keep up the great work!

16 upvotes

I just wanted to say "Thanks!" to everyone here for the great comments and questions today. It was a blast working with the DPReview folks on this video, and it's always nice to read that people appreciated and enjoyed it.

34 upvotes

Love these real-world video reviews. Genuine use by genuine photographers in genuine situations.

10 upvotes

Excellent video, please continue to produce them. The camera; looks capable. The slow motion, excellent. Broken arm; ouch! In speed skating we say, 'Check yourself before you wreck yourself'. Yeah, I've broken a couple.
Production quality; Very good but I thought the sequences with shooting data display should have been held longer than a 2 or 1-1/4 since the info often got by before I could hit pause to read the shooting data. Good job guys.

4 upvotes

Gold

4 upvotes

Seattle isn't that much fun I guess. I bet you'd get a lot interesting thing to photography if DP move to New York or East Asia.

Also, that some deep DOF. Back when I was shooting with my E-PL2 I mostly use the 20 f/1.7 so I guess I didn't notice how deep the DOF was.

1 upvote

With the Seahawks, the Sounders, the Puyallup Fair, Pioneer Square, Blue Angels, Seafair and all the surrounding cities as well as short trips to the waterfront and Canada - future videos will have plenty to keep their readers interested.

Remember that grey skies and a lack of light is a challenge for Digital Cameras because of how CMOS sensors work based around concepts of linear gamma and exposure:

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/linear_gamma.pdf

Thus results will likely be BETTER for many camera users when they own the products themselves.

Lets think positive here and praise their efforts that we enjoy for free.

11 upvotes

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Field test: Shooting Roller Derby with the Olympus OM-D E-M5 II

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