Newly enthused: hands on with the Canon EOS 80D

I go around the city and take random pictures, I'd like to know where was that exactly. Especially when I do location hunting.
Wildlife, street, travel, landscape photography could all benefit.
GPS also could help sync the time on several cameras, if you take the time from GPS rather than cameras. I've seen Canons drift apart over 1min in a week, internal timers. Unacceptable.

I'm not sure I know why you are unhappy. This thing seems pretty good, other than the fact that the sensor is the same resolution as the Sony A77 and higher than the new Panasonic GX8 and the new Nikon D500 flagship APS-C camera, but this Canon is significantly cheaper than the Nikon.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1214161-REG/nikon_1559_d500_dslr_camera_body.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1225875-REG/canon_1263c004_eos_80d_dslr_camera.html

Were you hoping to get 10 fps shooting speed or 4K video? Do you hope Canon is going to make a 50 MP APS-C camera or something?

I was expecting one or more of these:
- 4k, yes ( if only at 24fps )
- 2.7k at least ( 60fps )
- full HD video without skipping lines, but resizing full frames
- RAW HD output, through HDMI
- GPS, USB 3.0
- burst video at 120fps
- bright lit focus points as 5DMkIII had, not crappy red style.
- thumb joystick

Mp is something that I don't care about these days 18Mp is enough, burst FPS also not an issue if > 6fps.
Don't care about NFC. Cool to have camera app, I suspect it's the bare minimum functions. Would be nice to have intervalometer. Prev. Canon apps were cumbersome.
I like the new 1/250 sync speed. The mic / headphone plugs are welcome.
Canon has a patent on the flip screen, best style ever, but I hate them since other cameras could be improved greatly.
So yes, this camera is BS in my eyes.
New lens with adapter is BS. 5.6 ??? Lol, why bother ? Well clearly it's a test-me suckers beta version. Give me a 4.0 at least, and integrate that ugly thing in the lens. BS design.

If you don't like the camera, don't buy it. Buy a Sony and use adapters for your lenses. I don't see why people are so up and arms about this. You have options. Explore them.

I agree with the complaint on Canon managing features. Like they don't want to give us something at a lower price point if they think they can make us spend more money to get it. I don't really want to switch either, I prefer a DSLR to mirrorless. But I've been looking all the same.

The recent interview with the Canon exec annoyed me. He had a comment about how the 70D was a great seller, so he expects the 80D to be a great seller. No other reasons why, no comparison to the rest of the market. Almost as if he's saying, "we built a new enthusiast DSLR, and that's a hot market right now, so we think it'll do well." They give it the bare minimum specifications to entice enough people to upgrade from older bodies, and make it just good enough that a good portion of Canon users don't get fed up and switch systems. From the responses on this forum you'd think that they're failing miserably, but from what I've seen in the real world Canon still seems to be pretty successful.

First, do some research to get an idea of what you want. Go to a reputable camera store where they have knowledgeable staff and working demos of various models and try them yourself hands-on. Don't rush the decision. Take your time.

These days it's SONY !

In my opinion Canon has the best value in lenses. Canon's STM lens line offers superb image quality at a great price. And Canon's IS II L lenses are the best there are. For that reason I would choose Canon.

thanks guy
yes but you see guy review camera guy like nikon guy like canon
help me buy nikon d610 vs nikon d7200 vs canon 80d vs canon 7d mark ii

Canon

Guy like buy camera nikon guy buy camera canon. Guy like camera canon guy buy camera nikon

"help me buy nikon d610 vs nikon d7200 vs canon 80d vs canon 7d mark ii"

Sincere advise: if you are not sure, buy the cheapest of them.

Whatever you buy now, in the beginning camera will not be the limiting factor - your skill would be.

Buy a cheaper camera now, so that you can buy more lenses later. The lenses, not cameras, are the real money pit.

Your camera choices are all over the board. The D610 a low end full frame camera. 7D Mk II Pro-level APS-C camera. D7200 older general use APS-C camera, and the 80D a new general use APS-C camera. Of those choices the 80D is probably your best bet, as it is the most versatile of the cameras you have listed. The Nikon D7300 and the Canon 80D are the cameras you should be comparing. And as I mentioned above I believe Canon offers a much better value in lenses, which in my opinion is a much more important factor than any difference in camera body specifications.

Go to a camera store and purchase both with the understanding that you'll be returning one after a week. Then run your own tests shooting what you'd normally shoot in all kinds of light. Compare results and go with that.

Thank you, that's really useful :)

How do you know the DR has been improved? I havn't seen any talk of it yet. I've seen talk about the 1DX II being improved and people are automatically assuming the 80D must also. All assumptions so far.

RyanBoston..."bernardly" didn't say the 80D had improved DR...
He said one of the ONLY reasons to upgrade from the 70D to the 80D would be *IF* the DR was improved....

@ryanBoston
On the Canon Japan site it talks about the 80D having the same sensor improvements as the 1DXII, such as gapless micro lenses and "improved pixel transistors" - they claim
"Aims to improve the aperture ratio of the photodiode in the CMOS sensor, it introduced a new miniaturization process in CMOS semiconductor process. High sensitivity and low noise and wide dynamic range, can now be more taking advantage of representation. Further, it employed in combination with excellent photodiode structure in the photoelectric conversion efficiency, an improved pixel transistors to reduce the noise of the pixel portion. To improve the S / N ratio, achieving high ISO speed. In addition, excellent gapless micro lens to light collection efficiency has contributed greatly to the high sensitivity."
Also, that they are posting iso 12800 sample images says a lot - you wouldn't have seen them doing that before from an APS-C camera

@ donnie
Or not.
My bro already got rid of his crop body and upgraded to 6D. Knowing the situation with canon it's a good thing too. The only noteworthy change with the 6DII is probably going to be price and a couple more MP.
And my hopes go down from there: I am bracing for the world's biggest disappointment of 2016 coming from the 5DIII.2 if that even happens this year. Expectations are so high for that and I don't see canon being able to meet them based on their recent history.

@ photomedium,
I doubt that we will see both a 6DII and 5D-IV surface this year either. It'll either be one or the other. I'm betting it'll be the 6DII, and I'm guessing also that the new 6D model will be priced at around $2,600 to $2,800, thus eliminating the need for a general purpose 5D-IV body. I think the new 5D series, when they do appear, will be split between 2 specialized high megapixel bodies similar to the 5DS/SR bodies available today, and one of those bodies will likely be able to do in-camera 4K, but without the overheating problems associated with other 4K cameras.

I think this is a pretty good guess since Canon has stated publicly that they were going to offer more specialized pro models instead of doing a bunch of general purpose pro bodies. Anyway, it makes sense to me. :))

Who knows. We've seen a lot of speculation in that direction. But I doubt these drastic changes in product placement.

It's like Mercerdes would decide to make the E-class a sports car and trying to sell an upmarket moved c-class to the former E-Class buyers.........why bother with confused customers when life can be so easy. Doesn't mean that the e-class successor is always a big step forward necessarily. ;)

Donnie, I agree with pretty much everything you said and that would not surprise me the least given canon current self destructing pattern.
First order of business, offering a middle of the pack FF at $400-800 over the current price ceiling of 2k that was firmly established by the likes of the D750, the 6D, the D610 and now the K1.
Then fragmenting the models like they just did for the 5Ds, also another world class asinine move IMO. Having to run two production lines for essentially the same camera just to add stupid production costs. Last but not least: making little to insignificant improvements in sensor technology and castrating the video capabilities.
Yes, that sounds like the canon I know and love (for entertainment).

If this had a new revolutionary sensor, canon would have made a huge deal about it so it doesn't. If you're lucky, it uses same tech as 5ds and 7Dii.

Yes of course, they are just 5000$ more expensive, I see no problem ;-)! What about a6300 that is priced the same?

XC10 can be used as a stills camera too. And it has a special grip that is super ergonomic. It likes to fly in drones too.

I'm not allowed an opinion? Millions of consumers don't want or need video either. Goes both ways, think of the majority who don't do video. Really easy, buy something else.

I'm also thinking that 99% of people who post to youtube used a gopro type or phone for video, not a lot of people are going to walk around with a dslr waiting for a cop to beat someone up, a cat chasing a laser dot or some poor old lady trip and fall off a dock into the lake. Half the videos I see on youtube that are done well seem to be about people doing reviews of cameras that don't do video well, do we really need 4K for that? Are people waiting to do good videos only when they can use 4K on a dslr? I really don't need to see any more panning shots of mountain lakes, hot air balloons or surfers showing me how great 4K is. Just sayin'.

Really? There are so many people using dslrs for video. It stretches beyond Youtube and well into the professional market. Your comments are uninformed and ridiculous.

There are some people doing great work with dslrs that are Youtube - go look up Casey Neistat.

Yes, there are some great videos made by people with dslrs, the majority though, use phones or cheap cameras. There are numerous choices so why do people feel the need to complain about one camera? Go find a different one because of all the great videos made until now were not made using the 80D. I won't buy a Greyhound bus to use on the race track but I don't complain about how it doesn't have a roll bar in it and too many seats.

I don't need a DSLR anymore, that's why I went mirrorless. It doesn't matter what I want. My clients want video now and I either get on the wagon or loose business. My clients don't need higher resolution for large prints, they need photos for their websites and Instagram.

The 70D is a great camera and I've used it on many professional video/photo shoots. All I'm saying is Canon could have killed Panasonic and held it's own against Sony if they would have come out with a cheap 4K DSLR. Remember what the 5D MKII did for video? You may not shoot video but you have to acknowledge millions of people do. The 5D MKII changed the film making industry overnight. There is a reason Canon spent so much time and money developing the Dual-Pixel auto focus system and it ain't for shootin' stills. I bought the 70D just for video and used my 5d for stills. The 80D is marketed for video. I honestly believe Canon would have sold millions more of the 80D if it had 4K video.

@OldYeller
People like jonf123 will never get it.
Even though the Canon 5dii introduced the first useable hybrid SLR with and was a smash hit.
The Nikon offering just wasn't up to snuff.
But Canon has decided to not stay at the front of that wave, and wants to protect it's more lucrative C series line.
That's why people like Sony, Panasonic, and others who are willing to innovate rather than incremate (make incremental changes) are getting the accolades.
And the Canon dittoheads at the bottom of the food chain that are into the inexpensive bodies defend their brand.
They embrace the old. The boring. The ordinary.
And they come in here and say things like why not carry two cameras?
Why? Why? Why?
The reason why Canon didn't put 4k in the 80D is that the Canon dittoheads will buy the 80D and pro videographers will pay the $15,000 to get 4k dual pixel focus in a C series.
And the rest of us with Canon glass will put it on a Sony or some other body that takes Canon lenses.

Has any one noticed that the Nikon D500 is an APS-C sensor DSLR and costs $2000.

With a $6500 camera's AF and CPU, 10FPS, and what all evidence so far indicates will be better-than-full-frame low light performance.

Exactly where is the evidence to point towards the D500 having better low light performance than a full frame body...?! Or are you simply buying into DXO's bull - DX sensor FX performance rubbish...?!

Rest assured, that $2k is going to put a kink in nikon's plan to sell a ton of those. Somehow camera makers seem to have gone on an overpricing spree and they have embraced aestetics, nostalgia and billet aluminum for 2016 as the consumer driving forces. That plan is going to backfire.

@bernardly
What Canon really needs to do is make a wrapper that says Canon to go around Sony camera bodies and to supply it with a Metabones EF to Sony mount adapter.
Then they might have a "camera" worth buying!
:-)
Their C series isn't too bad.
But it's so overpriced.

@Bernard Carns
Haha! Funny that one. Poor Canon getting beaten up by Sony! :)

@Joseph Black
Maybe so. But this is now. We have the technology to make a DSLR with a switchable OVF / EVF which would offer the best of both worlds. I am not down on Canon. The 80D is a fine camera and will serve the needs of many photogs very well. But Canon can make an outstanding camera in this class to move the DSLR concept forward. Read more about it here:
https://photographylife.com/transitional-dslr-with-evf-capability

Canon is going to change their winning strategy because of the Monday morning quarterbacks...yep, any day now. Please submit your extensive market research via email asap.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56522500
Now we know what we're dealing with here.
"Buy a G7X, a G1XII, or a G16 or any other brand/model that suits you. Then put on your big boy pants and go out into the world."
Gotta love that "put on your big boy pants and go out into the world"
What a wonderfully demeaning way to talk to people.
And this one has the gall to call others trolls.
Reality check time!

I am having more and more fun reading posts from the usual canon mouthpieces. As each new camera offers less and less innovation the posts become more and more hyperbolic and detached from reality.

Nuk,
Apparently some people shoot 4K with their smartphone and photos, too. Why do they need a DSLR with 4K? Oh, and smooth focus with a nano-USM lens and DP PDAF focus might draw some people in, too. What a foolish thing to say.

@Nukunukoo
And they claim others are "trolls" (Which is a derogatory put down word) and then themselves post messages all over the place complaining about other people.
And they have to have the last word.
Their comment, after comment, after comment, after comment is the embodiment of what they "despise".
(It's called projection)
:-)
Time for Dr. Phil.
Hahaha.

Attention all Canon shooters: the most inappropriate place for you to post is in a Canon article.
All other shooters: you are the appropriate people to offer fair and balanced comments on Canon products you don't even use. Henceforth all Canon users will comment in other forums and articles and allow people who hate a given camera to use that forum exclusively. Forums are now assumed to be reserved for people who don't like something and think they're right about it.
The "doctor" Phil comment is the icing on the cake. Feel free to have the last word, you righteously indignant, put upon, oppressed Canon haters. I've learned my lesson and will stop commenting on cameras I have a positive opinion of, find interesting, and am considering buying. Those who read specs and just do nothing but hate really should be respected.

If you want a video camera buy a video camera. Why bother wasting time complaining about an SLR not having the video features you want?

We aren't all video shooters and we aren't buying cameras for that need.

Actually, convergence is now here. Canon made every effort to improve Dual Pixel AF for video. I do Photo and Video for a living and it helps me immensely when one can do both real good. Especially if it had 4K (best for post edits) and Log, which this camera does not.

@Nukunukoo
You're absolutely correct.
Canon is protecting their C series cash cows.
The people who are satisfied with yesterdays technology will buy new Canon still bodies and help Canon's bottom line.
The only thing of value with Canon at a price point less than $5000 are their lenses.
Look at a Sony camera being shot by Philip Bloom or a GH4 from Andrew Reid..they all have Canon red ring lenses on them!
And they're not Canon cine lenses.

Canon isn't in a position that requires something like 4K to draw people in; they aren't propping up a failing camera line that makes no money. It's not protecting, it's providing products that offer features their particular customers want. If people vote with their wallets, Canon obeys their wants and desires.
Isn't it sad that other body makers can't match a Canon lens? Is Sony and Panasonic protecting their higher-end lenses by not releasing something of good quality at a cheaper price point? See how this non-logic works? If someone makes a product that offers a feature you want, buy it and understand that you have a unique set of priorities that the rest of the human population of the planet doesn't share. The earth revolves around the sun, not you.
4K is fine, and if that's you're living then there are camera makers or market segments that cater just to you. Canon isn't doing a shotgun approach with this camera, and lots of customers appreciate that.

@Joseph Black
Mr Black,
The basis of your arguments are false.
I won't attack you personally as you have attempted to me.
Engaging you is a waste of my time.
You can have the last word.
Whatever!
:-)
BC

Thanks Bern/Barn/Jen whoever you are. The basis for an argument in which someone owning one camera body and another maker's lens is exactly the argument for people buying what works for them. If you believe that just because a body offers a feature like 4K it is more useful than another body with 1080P, then you fail to understand how video is shot. Different features make different types of video shooting possible. Just like shooting stills, you don't just judge a camera based on number of pixels. You made no argument, at least not with a drop of evidence, that Canon's strategy is strictly protectionism.

Great Article, and its from an EOSHD site , more Sony articles there than any other Brand, for a reason , and " if you want a video Camera buy a Video camera" was not parroted when People shot Video an a MarkII

@Joseph Black I don't think Andrew Reid is saying it's not a great stills camera, but it's video features are quite mediocre. Many people buy DSLRs and mirrorless for video because of the large sensor at a consumer price. EOSHD had some of the best information on the web for DSLR video shooters and is obviously named after the Canon line of camera's. It's really not a rant against Canon site, but the 80D isn't Canon's best for video.

@theparadoxy
One of the things I like about Andrew Reid is he gets to the point about things that are of concern. And he knows his way around video. I'd take his comments any day over a soft panned review from another site. He provides a needed service.

Cranky curmudgeons got be cranky about something!

I've been reading dpreview since around 2000. maybe even before. In the early years everyone was polite - even when they disagreed. I started seeing trolling in recent years get worse. Comments such as tongki (who just trolled you here) never existed and I don't know why dpreview tolerates it.

Same here...bought my first digital camera in 1999 and was coming to these sites for at least a year before buying (here, steves-digicams, and maybe imaging resource).
Remember Steve used to award prizes when he reached 100k, 200k; etc page hits?

The people in charge now don't see trolling the same way. They grew up with an internet that was primarily trolling, so this stuff must seem tame to them. Also, trollers do mean traffic, and traffic means money. It also doesn't hurt that a pattern of behavior is ignored as trolling when the comments themselves happen to be opinions shared by DPR staff.

Well, given Canon's continued dominance of the non-phone camera market, sometimes it seems as though the competition doesn't exist.

"small canon universe" you mean the universe that encompasses nearly 40-45% of all ILC's shipped globally?

Canon ships this, canon ships that...I love the way canon fanboys always cite with the big market share figures.
What they don't tell you is that 5 years ago the figures were 20-30% higher and that canon marketshare, one the top 5-10 biggest companies in Japan, is being eroded by much smaller and smarter companies like fuji and olympus.

Nikon D7200 have slightly better noise and DR performance up to now if high amount of shadow detail push needed. There are no tests available to compare 80D to others but I'll choose Canon skin colour rendition over Nikon/Sony on any day

"Nikon D7200 have slightly better noise and DR performance"

show me the comparison with the 80D, please, if you make this statement.

Yes, i know "it's a canon" but canon just said that they started using "a new miniaturization fabrication process" ... so we'll just have to wait to see what that means about sensor performance.
If canon updated their production to the same level as sony or even better, as samsung, that gap will finally get be done with.

However it remains to be seen if, when and in what sensors the new tech will come to life...

@badi
Read what he said. "Up to now... There are no tests available to compare the 80D"

D7200 is as close to FF performance (and we're talking about Nikon FF here) as you can get in APS-C. It would be impressive if Canon could match something like the A6000 at this point, bit I'm not holding my breath...

They will both probably be excellent cameras, which won't limit any capable photographer. The D7200 is a known quantity, and no one knows how the 80D performs yet. But we can expect to be better on every level as regards functionality and performance to the 70D, which I own. The 70D is an excellent camera, and is not limiting in anyway to a capable photographer.

This level of camera is already at such a level, that the limiting factor is nearly always the photographer and not the equipment. What I mean by this, is that unless you have very specialist needs or demands, or you are an incredibly talented photographer, you needn't worry about either camera limiting your photography.

D7200 has better IQ than 5DM3.. How can we expect 80D will give better performance than this?? Canon must improve their own sensor technology otherwise small improvement on FPS,VIDEO, AF SYSTEM can not save future. For me; Legend of Canon stopped at 40D and 5DM2... Later.. going down. Even going down sales volume are increasing.. So why they make invenstment for better sensor ? Everybody happy:)

@khaan ... no need to be yet another fanboy or to make laughable statements...

Anyway in terms of IQ, the only aspect where the D7200 is better id base ISO DR, and IF canon finally moved to a "contemporary manufacturing process" then canon&sony sensors will have similar DR as well.

@Khan, if you think any crop sensor camera has better image quality than full frame, you've been drinking way too much cool aid from dxo.

Canon has a huge advantage in video due to dual pixel, and continuous AF in live view for stills will be awesome - the best of both worlds (have a mirror, traditional phase detection, contrast AF, on sensor phase detection, and what else and I forgetting!). Downside is the huge size of course.
If the IQ leaps forwards to match Sony, this camera (using my current lenses) paired with a GM1/GM5/GF7 sized m43 would be a nice setup. One nice thing about the mirror is that it uses no power - can shoot time-lapses literally all night long with my old Rebel and standard battery. Can't do that with m43.

@junk1, we'll see. So far latest cameras like 5ds,7dm2 dissapointed. I wonder about 1dx2 and 80d with not big expectation

@ Khaan....Do you mean pre-meditated, repetitive DR disappointment that only the number crunching/munching gear heads go on about? According to you Canon camera buyers are thousands of professional idiots who know nothing about DR and what they produce is piece inferior quality sh*t that no advertisers in media etc. wants to buy. And anyone who accepts Canon produced work is not even half intelligent as you are. The problem with you guys that you just repeat the same troll over and over.

well... 1 elephant is bigger than 5 pigs...

There have been, what, four DSLRs ever (1D C, 1D X II, D5 and D500) that can shoot 4K? All of those are distinctly high-end models and we've not even got to see whether their footage is any good.

It's easier to get fast readout from small sensors, so yes, lots of smartphones offer 4K. It's often rubbish, but it's there. Hooray!

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the flexibility that 4K brings me when I'm shooting a video project, but I'll just as often choose good 1080 or stabilized 1080 over bad 4K. And that's as someone with some interest in shooting video.

dont be shock, take care your health.. It is easy to find tools that meet our need, just this one is not for you... It is that easy.

@Richard Butler - just to mention about the Canon 1DC. It has fantastic 4K footage and has been used as a B or C-cam in a wide range of TV and cinema productions. It's absolute balls to work with as a video camera, but the image, particularly in C-Log, is stellar.

https://vimeo.com/74610043

No idea about the others, though.

@ Archiver... Just watched your video and it's great both artistically and technique wise. I hope the talentless number crunchers will watch and shut up but doubt it.

@Richard Butler
"It's easier to get fast readout from small sensors"

and for sony, easy to get it from large sensors too... Panasonic has no problem either doing it in cheap as chips M43 models

The 4K comparison isn't DSLR vs smart phones, but DSLR vs MILCs... and DSLRs need to catch up fast (IMO)

@Richard Butler, thanks for the reminder about the facts. Which puts all the other nonsense below the line here into perspective. Of the DSLRs you mention, 3 are not even shipping yet, and the other was a super expensive camera aimed at cinematographers. Also the 3 that do have 4k, but are not yet available are all high end pro-models. Even the D500 is a level about the 80D and nearly twice the price. This puts all the trolling about the lack of 4k into perspective.

@Lawrencew

"what puts it into perspective is that MILCs less than the price of an 80D can do it.
Why is it so more difficult to provide 4K in a DSLR?"

Yes this is true, but only up to a point. Indeed mirrorless cameras do have advantages, especially as videocentric cameras. The first mirrorless camera that had internal 4K recording was the Panasonic GH4, which is still the top of the range Panasonic camera i.e. it hasn't been superseded. Some of the lower spec Panasonic cameras have been given it. But the GH4 was originally more expensive than the 80D will be, and even though it's price has lowered, it is still close to the 80D pre-order price, which will quickly drop.

In other words it is in reality only recently that 4k has been available on affordable ILCs of any type. SLRs are more expensive to manufacture, and manufacturers of mirrorless cameras are adding features hard to try and draw those away from DSLRs. The cheapest DSLR announced with 4k is nearly twice the 80D price.

Dpr has stated they haven't seen a smartphone with 4k that records 4k in a quality matter that ends up with more actual resolution than just recording 1080 to begin with.

Sort of like jamming now 22mp into a tiny smartphone sensor with a lens that is constantly scratched from coins and wallets and everything else on people's pockets along with lint. You'll. Get a good 5mp out if a big 22mp file.

Bigger files but actual recorded resolution hardly increases.

So true @Paul and @leonche

So many of the posters have some maturing and growing up to do. What's funny is those very people usually don't have pics to share, and when they do 19 out of 20 times it's about cats, test charts and brick walls. A great way to spend a few thou on camera gear but whatever floats their boat, it's their money!

Now they are all howling at the moon about 4k. Wonder how many of them actually shoot video that anybody would want to watch? And if they do, how many have actually shot 4k video and edited, graded, processed it and shown it? I'd wager that ratio would be even smaller.

All the whining would make sense to me if people were creative and skilled and are putting their work out there. Am just not seeing it. So that just leaves whining for whining's sake. From (assuming) grown adults. Wow.

Stop dropping your lens

@RedFox88
LOL
Canon doesn't repair dropped lenses 5x for free. Each repair has been free.
I got a lemon.
:-)

@Oliver KMIA
I share your sentiment.
I really liked the Canon bodies of the past. They were really a lot closer to leading edge than Canon is now.
I still shoot with a full frame Canon for stills from time to time, and I have a Canon converted to deep black and white infrared that I use once in a while as well.
But the camera body that I use most of the time now, takes Canon lenses but is not a Canon body.
I have a lot of Canon glass and don't regret that I have it.
They're just not making any bodies that I'm interested in.
The last 4 camera bodies I have purchased have not been Canon.
Had they made interesting products, all those sales could have been theirs.
With respect to customer service, Canon is great.
Reliability for me has been so so.
But that might be because in the past the total Canon gear got the most use.
Now it's just the Canon lenses that get the most use.

@thx1138 - hey... Don't let reality get in the way of a good wish list! You're crushing dreams right now! Let him have his 1-2000 f/.05 pancake lens! ;-)