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Exposure latitude

In this test we look to see how tolerant of pushing exposure the a7R II's Raw files are. We've done this by exposing our scene with increasingly lower exposures, then pushed them back to the correct brightness using Adobe Camera Raw. Examining what happens in the shadows allows you to assess the exposure latitude (essentially the dynamic range) of the Raw files.

Because the changes in noise are primarily caused by shot noise and this is mainly determined by the amount of light the camera has had access to, the results are only directly comparable between cameras of the same sensor size. However, this will also be the case in real-world shooting if you're limited by what shutter speed you can keep steady, so this test gives you an idea of the amount of processing latitude different formats give.

The Nikon D810 is the a7R II's most obvious peer (same sensor size, similar pixel count), and you can see that the Sony's performance is very similar. Even after a 5EV push, it would be hard to call between the two. The a7R II is possibly a little noisier if you push all the way to 6EV, but the difference is small enough that it could be experimental error.

By way of comparison, you can only push the Canon EOS 5DS R by 2EV before it starts to exhibit more noise than the Sony, which suggests it is adding a fair amount of its own downstream read noise - limiting the degree of processing latitude that you get to work with.

ISO Invariance

A camera with a very low noise floor is able to capture a large amount of dynamic range, since it will add very little noise to the detail captured in the shadow regions of the image. This has an interesting implication: it minimizes the need to amplify the sensor's signal in order to keep it above that noise floor (which is what ISO amplification conventionally does). This provides an alternate way of working in situations that would traditionally demand higher ISO settings.

Here we've done something that may seem counter-intuitive: we've used the same aperture and shutter speed at different ISO settings to see how much difference there is between shooting at a particular ISO setting (and using hardware amplification) and digitally correcting the brightness, later.

There's an increasing amount of noise visible in the pushed low ISO shots, meaning the a7R II is not, strictly speaking, ISO invariant (or, at least, not across its whole ISO range*). Shooting at ISO 640 and above gives a better performance than shooting at low ISOs and pushing (which becomes visible at ISO 800 in this test). This would indicate that the camera is adding a little noise which is then overcome by applying a little amplification.

However, as we saw further up the page, the camera is adding very little noise - its low ISO files are extremely flexible. What's happening is that the a7R II, like the a7S before it, has more than one conversion gain mode, meaning that it is adding a tiny bit of additional amplification somewhere early on in the process, to push all the collected data above its very slight read noise.

This means that there is a (small) noise cost to shooting at below ISO 640 and pushing during post processing, but not because there's lots of read noise at low ISOs, but that the high ISOs have been optimized to overcome what little read noise there is. This explains how the a7R II has managed to record the best high-ISO DR that DxO has yet measured.

What does this mean, creatively? Rishi Sanyal has looked at the a7R II's sensor performance, and what it means for your photography, in more detail in a separate article. Click here to read what he found.

* You could describe the camera as being ISO invariant over two stretches of its ISO range: The ISO 100-500 is invariant in the same way we've seen on previous cameras, but now there's a second region: ISO 640 and upwards, where a further improvement is offered.

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Comments

Total comments: 1482
12345
TORN

Handles and feels like a middle class camera, awful dials and buttons, fails with most of my Canon glas. Sony, please try again. But please, next time make it fun to use.

Sure, the sensor is awesome. And the technology built in is impressive.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
nk4002r

Nice review, but I think there is a mistake right here on the front page. In the Sony Sony a7 II review, it is noted as Magnesium Alloy - better construction than the original a7, which is composite. Now, the A7II has been downgraded to composite again? As far as I understand Sony's documentation, the A7r II has only improved externally that the mode dial has a lock and that the EVF magnifying glass have Zeiss coating and tweaked to give bigger magnification of the same lcd module. The body/housing is identical aside the other well documented internal differences.

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Absolutic

the biggest thing that bothers me on my A7RII is ridiculous battery life. I have a total of 8 batteries, but it is a headache to always remember which ones I have charged and which ones I have not.... battery goes down so quick..... not a good vacation camera because of that. I do have a grip too but the camera becomes too big then, I might as well bring my Canon DSLR or Sony SLT instead (and never worry about battery life). I wish Sony finds a space to put in a larger capacity battery in the next iteration of this camera.

1 upvote
KAMBIC

Hogwash, you must be a troll..... Earlier today I mentioned how battery life was an issue and another guy mentions something about a kitten dying every time a battery is swapped.

Nobody is saying more batteries won't help but that would annoy me too, in fact it did. I used to have a GX7, had 6 batteries for it. It was a PITA. Having been on both sides of the fence I can honestly say battery life is a convenience that really makes shooting more enjoyable. I hate having to keep track of batteries and my battery icon.

1 upvote
Arkienkeli

I have numbered all my batteries with a silver paint pen. Easier to keep track of them.

Fujifilm X-T1 also eats them up, it is the EVF...

1 upvote
tunisiaxxx

Excellent and thorough review. Plus, I always like when I get my own feelings and experience confirmed. Thanks for the effort.

0 upvotes
photomedium

What a great, extensive review!well done.

1 upvote
Raist3d

Dpreview/Rishi and rest of staff- thank you for providing so many RAW files in a variety of conditions (same with the JPEGS) so I can see for myself how this sensor performs. Looking at them soon when they finish downloading.

Thanks, this is very useful. I am not interested in this camera per se but want to anticipate how the R1XR mk2 performs.

0 upvotes
Gosman

Still one more generation away before it will be time for me to buy.

2 upvotes
Astound

It's always nice when the things that DPR picks out as major negatives, aren't things that bother me. That's a good thing - each to their own.

That said, the only thing which really bothers me is the front dial, which is too small - I keep switching the camera off by mistake, whilst fumbling for it. Grrrrrrr.

Otherwise, I don't mind the smaller buttons.

It is noticeably heavier than the original A7, but seems to be much better built.

Oh and the slow buffer thing is annoying.

Early days yet, but so far so good for pretty much everything else.

1 upvote
Lawn Lends

For some this is the a7r II, for me it is the a7r too expensive. :(

1 upvote
CameraLabTester

Sony is reaping the rewards of being innovative and bold.

No doubt this camera will become the mirror less camera where other similar types will be judged.

The feeling of distrust, disdain and ridicule for this camera will soon be replaced by jump ship patrons who want the best leading edge features the current technology could offer.

It was the same brouhaha when Canon dumped the FD and introduced the EOS. There were howls of protests from Canon die-hards which eventually became oohs and aahs.

.

7 upvotes
osv

1400+ posts here, on the same day that the review was published? that must be a record for dpr.

it looks like this camera, and what it portends for future sony cameras, has a lot of canikon people questioning their current platform choices :-)

well done rishi.

3 upvotes
Temporel

the thread is 2 months old

1 upvote
osv

no wonder, lol

1400 posts in a day would have been insane

0 upvotes
Photoman

I feel CanNik are PLENTY worried!

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec

Maybe they are (and should).
The thing is that CaNik cannot tear apart the cocoon they encapsulated themselves in, with focus on DSLR's. Or maybe they are too busy competing with each other?

0 upvotes
Photoman

@Richard Maybe it is a culture thing (like lost in translation) and Sony are the black sheep of the family. I feel CanNik attempts of mirrorless cameras are crap. It's a bit like "Here kid, have a lollipop and now shut up and be happy with what I gave you".

1 upvote
KAMBIC

Always amazes me when somebody thinks a single camera will take down other MFR. These cameras are part of a system; lenses, flash, accessories, support, it's far more than a body. But hey, I'm sure you guys are right, Canikon execs are losing sleep. Yep...

0 upvotes
Bene Placito

But the lens lineup is soooooooo limited.

6 upvotes
jhinkey

Unless you use adapted glass . . . .

2 upvotes
T3

Let's not forget that the Sony FF mirrorless system has only been in existence for barely 2 years (the first A7 camera was announced in October 2013). I remember people used to complain that the Canon EOS system was "soooooooo limited" two years into the existence of that system, too. But at least with the Sony FF mirrorless system, you can adapt other lenses to it quite easily and effectively.

3 upvotes
Photoman

Give it time dude...plus buy lens adapters.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

Funny thing is that every one or at least most of the lenses in your gear list can actually be adapted to work on the A7Rii in some way or other.....edit...not sure about the Sigma but probably if you wanted too.

Most would hardly be worth adapting (like most of your m4/3 gear) but the point is it CAN be.
Your lenses would probably consist of some of the least adaptable to it as well. (Nikon G and M4/3-4/3 lenses).

The Nikon G situation will change at some point soon (supposedly) too.
M4/3 lenses really need a mechanical aperture and focus ring to adapt them none-the less there are still adapters for them.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
NoMirror99

Let's see, Sony and Zeiss account for 15 FE mount lenses. Sony A-mount accounts for 33 lenses. That's 48 lenses. How many do you need?

1 upvote
Bene Placito

Hi NoMirror99 - Yes, there are native lenses out there but most of them are not worth putting on an A7RII. I used an A7RII with the 24-70mm f4 lens and was totally underwhelmed. I know I can use some of my existing gear in manual focus with adaptors but I really don't want to have to operate that way.

0 upvotes
Bene Placito

OK. I just reviewed all the images on the samples gallery and there's not a lot there which I find earth shattering or inspiring. I think I'll keep my powder dry for a while.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

I never had any doubt you wouldn't buy it.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Aroart

Can someone please call me when it can focus as fast and good as a canon 7dm2.. Actually i'll even settle for it to be in the a6000 league.

0 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

What are you trying to focus on? Because for some situations, it's actually faster than either of the cameras you've listed. In others, it's not. It's not so simple as to suggest AF is not as fast and good as the cameras you mentioned; that's a simplified and misguided perception.

20 upvotes
RubberDials

Do yourself a favour and compare the output of the 7dm2 with the 7rII using the studio comparison tool.

Or even try it against the a77mkII or a6000. Focusing speed is the least of your worries...

2 upvotes
Raist3d

RubberDials- focusing can matter depending on the photographer and needs. Go ahead and compare the A7RII to the Sigma Quattro at ISO 100. To be extreme, imagine if someone used your logic- the Sigma Quattro is a major win in that scene. But what happens with its workflow or when you have to use a higher ISO or no full spectrum light? Or you need fast focusing :-)

0 upvotes
KAMBIC

Focusing is very important for some. For me it's probably the most important thing in a camera, bc there is no way I'm keeping up with my kids running around using manual focus. I could manage with older IQ, in fact I'm using a 5yo apsc camera and am fine with the output, but the AF is still great on that 5yo Nikon DSLR.

Little extra noise is no biggy, if my focal plane is off by a foot shooting at F1.8, that's a problem I can't just fix with some NR. When it comes to AF I don't want "just ok", I want the best within my budget. That means either Nikon or Canon.

0 upvotes
Raist3d

I have to admit. I read this review and I get the subtle impression dpreview like this camera. Am I reading this right? I am not sure.

Comment edited 11 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Temporel

probably a lots of ads from Sony or Amazon asked for a high score.

1 upvote
Richard Franiec

C'mon, it is nothing wrong to be enthusiastic about the product. Especially when enthusiasm is well deserved.
The round-ups are one thing (and they are quite flat) but I'm sure that the reviews are not influenced by bribery or demands of any party you've mentioned. Great read BTW.

2 upvotes
Raist3d

Guys, I was joking. :-)

0 upvotes
KAMBIC

Raist3d he wasn't talking to you. And while I won't dare actually accuse anybody of it at DPR, Sony have been busted for payola before, they are not above bribery to boost sales.

0 upvotes
Vintage _ Digital

Now they just need to fix everything in the cons section for the mark III in 6 months time.

4 upvotes
www_zeeshan_de

+ One of the best reviews ever!

What i still did not like:

- Its unfair to compare the 4K Crop-Videos with the 4K FF-Videos in low light. The 4K Crop-Videos aint better, the point is just that the images in Crop-Videos are stronger denoised than in the FF-Videos. the CPU Processing Power is limited, and the FF-Videos cause a massive amount of Data which cannot be post processed at the same level like its done on the lower amount of Data from the Crop-Videos.
In daylight situations, the FF-Videos should outperform the Crop-Mode Videos easily (Zeiss 55 1.8 should be used to adress the high resolution demand for the Sensor).

- Sample galleries: Most of the Images are taken with 35 mm... what the hell? You could have done them with RX1R/RX1RII. There should be multiple real life samples with Zeiss FE 55 1.8 @ ISO 100 @ F5.6 to F8. So its questionable how useful the RAW samples really are at normal POV with A7RII Sensor correctly exposured and all Pixels perfectly adressed.

0 upvotes
ethern1ty

"- Its unfair to compare the 4K Crop-Videos with the 4K FF-Videos in low light. The 4K Crop-Videos aint better, the point is just that the images in Crop-Videos are stronger denoised than in the FF-Videos."

No : APS-C crop don't do lign skipping (and do full pixel readout), that's a big difference. This implies better IQ and less noise.

0 upvotes
Samuel Spencer

The first video on the first video page (video of the trees) is a comparison of the two modes in daylight. The quality of S35 is still better than 4K ff in this situation as well.

0 upvotes
Chris Joy

S35 mode is more detailed and has less noise at any ISO. The only reason to shoot FF 4k is to go really wide or better rolling shutter. In any other situation the IQ in s35 is better.

0 upvotes
dash2k8

I have an a7s1 and love everything about it except the buttons. Because of its smaller body compared to traditional DSLRs, I understand the buttons have to be smaller and packed into more cramped spaces, but it is not good for me personally. The a7rII looks to be identical in physical dimensions so I don't imagine the buttons to be any better. Again, I love the technical abilities and cannot fault the image quality, but the buttons...

I will allow that I've been using SLRs for close to 20 years and am familiar with that size/heft/feel, so of course the Alpha buttons will feel too small for me. The above is just a personal preference.

0 upvotes
JackM

Looks like an a7r2 paired with a Canon 7D2 would be a winning combo. 7D2 for sports/wildlife/action, a7r2 for landscape/etc, all with one set of lenses.

1 upvote
Glenn Barber

Wish that was always the case, but it seems not all adapted Canon Lenses work well on the Sony.

1 upvote
tbcass

Better combo would be the A7r2 paired with a Sony A77ii for sports/wildlife action..

2 upvotes
KAMBIC

@tbcass, why not just buy a D810 or 5DsR and get it all in one? I mean carrying two cameras, each for a different task, that's kinda defeating the purpose isn't it? Plus the A77II didn't exactly get raving scores for sports even here on DPR.

Just not sure the logic of complicating a kit with multiple bodies due to inadequacies of each.

0 upvotes
Photoman

Wow! So many comments. Sony must be the flavour of the month. This is my next upgrade.

0 upvotes
DStudio

"Remarkably, the a7R II even outdoes the Pentax 645Z, despite the larger medium format sensor on the 645Z that ostensibly should gather more light."

I'm not sure this is true at ISOs above 12800, based on the Studio scene in RAW. Although it's still an impressive performer, I see more noise with the Sony.

0 upvotes
Esstee

Not sure what you're referring too, but I'm going to go ahead and say "tot even close" based on what I've seen. ie, DR, noise performance and resolution. - from RAW of course

0 upvotes
DStudio

Oh, I was comparing high-ISO in normal light. I was thinking back to the days when the Studio scene tool didn't have a low-light option.

So in normal light the Pentax wins, but that's not what DPR was referring to in this comment.

In low light, they are roughly equal up to about 12800, with the Pentax perhaps having a slight advantage at some ISOs. But by 51200 the Sony has clearly pulled away from the Pentax in low light.

I stand corrected - thank you.

So there is obviously a point in between these two light levels where they trade places at high ISOs (e.g. at 51200). Interesting.

0 upvotes
Henrikw

Excellent review. Thank you.
I am more convinced than ever that this is my next camera upgrade.
But I'm still waiting for proper tests on the accuracy using it with the Canon 85mm 1.2. This lens is my bread and butter, and I need to make sure it performs as good (hopefully better AF) than on my MKIII,
Having this amazing lens image stabilized would be a dream come true!!!

1 upvote
neatpicture

@Henrikw
I use the 85/1.2 via metabones all the time with this camera. It works probably better on the A7rII than on the 5DIII. Hands down in low light conditions. I shoot stationary objects but also basketball and I am extremely pleased with the combination. Because of the IBIS I find that I can also shoot in studio using the modeling lights only without flashes at low iso (100) as an alternative when I want extremely shallow depth of field and true what you see is what you get. A completely new way of shooting for me. Low light+fast glass+IBIS is a lot of fun with this camera. Things I could not even dream of with my 1DX or the 5DIII.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
13 upvotes
Joe Van Wyk

Hi Henri,

Hopefully I can shed a little light on that combo. I own the A7Rii.

As you know, that lens is a treasure. I have rented the 85 1.2 and the Metabones iv twice for shoots. One time was for a photography workshop in NYC. I could bore you with all of the great photos I took with it, but this one is probably the most significant for your question:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joevanwyk/21339043569/in/album-72157658388693838/

Continuous AF worked really well. I nailed many shots of people coming right towards me crossing the street. I always shot wide open too.

I really urge you to do the reverse of what I did. :-) Rent the camera and use your lens on it.

I really love the way you can grab that focus ring (and cheesy lens hood!) and dial it in manually.

Now, as you know, there aren't any exotic AF features when using 3rd party lenses. Forget eye AF and object tracking and whatnot.

I really, really dig that lens and wish I owned it.

1 upvote
Joe Van Wyk

Also Henri, if you want to look at others I shot you can see them in this album: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joevanwyk/albums/72157658388693838/with/21339043569/

There is a variety of lenses represented, and some funky ones that don't have lens data. Regardless, you should be able to pick out the 85 1.2 shots. Backgrounds obliterated! :-)

Those ones with the bikes heading toward me were with the 85 on continuous.

0 upvotes
Seeky

Very good job on this review. No other reviewer can touch this. It is complete, concise and advanced at the same time. For me, this is the perfect camera to buy, but I don't need it now, so I will wait for a lower price....

8 upvotes
neatpicture

I have it and I love it. But it is not for everyone. I love it so much probably because I have my Canon body ready in the bag just in case. If you are a pro on a pressing and fast paced project you cannot just trust this one camera. As someone else has already well put, it is more of a marvel piece of electronics that takes pictures, more than a camera. This review is wonderful in describing what this camera can do, but it does not reflect so well quirks and bugs that can really get in the way in a fast paced very demanding project. To me it is exactly the opposite of a Canon body: probably outdated, but tough, ergonomics and interface with no quirks, it delivers your expectation always and in any condition even if not top class. A7RII delivers incredible images, generally exceeding my expectations, but I rarely leave a shoot with the solid feeling of mission accomplished as I do with my Canons.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
rialcnis

While planning to buy the a7sll, for it's phenomenal low light video, I want this one too. I'm glad Sony has really re-emerged.

Hoping for a detailed a7sll video review now.

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Satyaa

This review proves once again that Sony is inherently a technology company. What they have done with the technology in this camera is amazing.

On the other hand, Sony is not a photography company. Hence the annonying implementation of some features that photographers keep complaining about.

For someone who doesn't care about those annoyances and is willing to pay the price, it appears to be a very good camera.

6 upvotes
Esstee

I agree.

0 upvotes
T3

Given that the MKII series is only their second iteration of the A7 body design, I'm willing to cut them some slack. How many iterations have Canon and Nikon bodies gone through ever since the first Canon EOS or Nikon F body was introduced? Designing camera bodies is an iterative process entailing refinements and adjustments over the course of time. Just because a company doesn't reach perfection, or near perfection, from the start doesn't mean they aren't a "photography company".

0 upvotes
NoMirror99

Yeah, it looks like Sony only has about one more iteration to get it all right before the two 800lb gorillas in the corner of the cage wake up. So Sony, make sure you eat all their lunch and wip their butts while they are still sleeping. If you don't, they may wake up and wip yours.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
CeleryBeats

Most Sexy camera ever built.

16 upvotes
Craig from Nevada

The only thing missing on this camera is aggressive pricing.

This is something that Sony can add anytime.

2 upvotes
Mrrowe8

I agree and was thinking the same thing

0 upvotes
TomHudsonVisual

You use a lot of superlatives but I still trust you guys over everyone else for quality reviews. I always wait for your word before considering a camera. Thanks Dpreview!

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
6 upvotes
Mik55

"Class-leading noise performance: both with respect to low light image quality and dynamic range". You have to be kidding Take a look at image 47. The dark areas are full of noise. I'm not saying the noise is terrible, but it is certainly noir class leading. It seems comparable to most cameras out today. No big step forward and can't compete with its little brother the a7s.

2 upvotes
Magnar W

I am always impressed by those who can tell excactly how a camera performs from a singe picture!

23 upvotes
Mik55

I've seen many pics from this camera but this only confirms what I thought. Prove me wrong Magnar, show me a high iso pic that isn't noisy from this camera. Somehow I doubt I will hear from you again.

4 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

? You can tell how the camera stacks up against others by viewing one, isolated image?

Another thing we'd like for people to keep in mind is the following: pros will tend to post-process image significantly. The reality is that contrast, color, saturation adjustments can ultimately make underlying noise - extant in all images - more visible. This almost needs to be a disclaimer in our reviews :)

In other words, an ISO 100 file processed for color and contrast is going to look noisier at the pixel level than you might expect for a SOOC ISO 100 shot.

This is why we stress that tools like Raw histograms (to better ETTR your exposures) and lower native ISOs (like ISO 64 on the D810) are important - they allow you to capture more light, which decreases shot noise contributions, giving you higher SNR, and more room to 'play' in post before noise becomes visible.

20 upvotes
Magnar W

Mik55, I don't have this A7 model myself, but I have worked a lot with other A7 series cameras (I also use Canon cameras), so I know that high ISO noise is much more about exposure than just the ISO value used. I also know that you probably will be fooled if you judge camera performance from just a few pictures from a camera - there are a lot of A7rII files out there, and in general the high ISO samples look very clean in the dark aras, no matter using high ISO or ISO invariant exposure strategy.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

Mik55: No one said high ISO shots wouldn't be noisy from this, or any camera. When you deprive the sensor of light at high ISO, you necessarily have noise due to shot noise. Hard to address this without more efficient and/or larger sensors.

But show us another camera that performs better than the a7R II. After all, 'class-leading' is defined as 'leading compared to other cameras in its class'. And here, we stand by our statement, as the a7R II performs better than any other high resolution camera, matching the performance of the much touted 'low light king' the a7S.

15 upvotes
adengappasami

I have both the A7rII and A7s. I can fairly say if you dont do video, there is no point getting the A7s.

The A7rII is actually as good as A7s till a point where i dont see a need for using any higher ISO.

Lets say the maximum ISO we tend to push is 12800 the A7rII to me looks exactly similar to A7s.

And the ability to CROP. I shoot wide angle wildlife with 35mm and still get usable 8mp crops. Thats the strength.

1 upvote
Esstee

If you look closely, I think you'll find, that all but the 645z would exhibit noise under the same conditions.

0 upvotes
www_zeeshan_de

@Rishi
"And here, we stand by our statement, as the a7R II performs better than any other high resolution camera, matching the performance of the much touted 'low light king' the a7S."

A7RII is matching the A7S/A7SII due to the BSI Sensor AND the REMOVED-AA-FILTER. Imagine, the A7SIIIR with 12MP would outperform the SNR from the A7RII easily. Not to forget, imagine what is possible if the A7IIIR had a native RGB-Sensor instead of conventional RGGB-Bayer-Sensor. On a native RGB-Sensor each Pixel can collect even more Light to maximize SNR generating Images without Interpolation with maximum pixel effieciency in Resolution OR taking 3 Pictures (1st normal+2shifted) with Sensor Shifting to generate a native 9 RGB-MP image. Theres a lot to improve for image quality.

0 upvotes
Mik55

Why do I even waste my time reading these reviews! Rishi what you do is try to pass your opinion as fact and it isn't or you don't know the difference. Just like your statement "? You can tell how the camera stacks up against others by viewing one, isolated image". You have no idea how many shots I have looked at prior to your review. Are you going to tell me you are the psychic photo reviewer. You did good review of this camera but don't get so defensive.

0 upvotes
RC Photography

Very nice review. Thanks Rishi Sanyal, Richard Butler, and Dan Bracaglia.

For anyone looking for a new system with $3400, this should be at the top of the list.

To TheGreatfulBread , I saw the D750 on eBay for $1600 recently. Anyone on a smaller budget looking at stills only could not go wrong with that.

3 upvotes
40daystogo

I am a Nikon user for several decades with a good collection of manual-focus Nikon lenses. It's ironic, therefore, that I am attracted to Sony full-frame, instead of Nikon, because Sony offers the possibility of using those old Nikon lenses in stabilization mode, whereas Nikon FF does not.

7 upvotes
EvilTed

Yeah but not on the A7r II. The A7s II is OK, but the old AI-S lenses aren't really a good match for the 42MP sensor.
Some are better than others and I have a huge collection from 20mm to 200mm, including all the stars...

0 upvotes
rfsIII

So @EvilTed tell us, which ARE the good ones? (But not too loud because we don't want the prices to skyrocket)....

1 upvote
rev32

DPR You continue to compare everything to the D810 but have not published the complete review yet!!!!
Why is that????

2 upvotes
marc petzold

The D810 Nikon is *better* in DR-terms at ISO =<400, but at ISO 400, the A7R II surpasses it. Around ISO 1600 and higher, the A7R II is quite a stop better in DR as the D810.

Dynamic Range Proof:
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Nikon-D810-versus-Sony-A7S___1035_963_949

The D810 does have a higher DR Rating because of this only on DxOMark. (I am not a Sony Fanboy, and i do love Nikon, but also being happy with Sony, Canon, etc. Gear - they're just Tools, guys!)

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
rfsIII

Can we please stipulate that a camera is much more than just a sensor. I think my D810 is awesome because I can put the focus on an eye and the camera keeps the focus on the eye, not the lashes, doesn't jump to the nose...It's also awesome because the RAW files can take a lot of adjustment, it's the first camera I've ever owned with reasonably accurate auto white balance, the video from it is gorgeous, and the exposure is generally spot on. Dynamic range I can adjust by using fill light and scrims, high ISO same thing. I wish it was about two pounds lighter, however.

0 upvotes
TheGreatfulBread

I'm surprised there wasn't some commenting in the article about how it compares to the D750 as well.

0 upvotes
Tenoch

I note that in the Exposure Latitude test when comparing with the D810, you have the A7RII at ISO100 (base ISO) and the D810 at ISO100 as well, which is of course not base ISO on this camera. The D810 base ISO is 64. Is this actually a fair comparison between the two cameras given shooting above base ISO is naturally going to result in a small noise penalty on the D810?

I found the conclusions drawn from this test interesting as well, with DPReview remarking that they found the two cameras produced "very similar" results and that telling them apart is hard. To my eye, there is noticeably less noise from the D810 (although it is still relatively small, but not hard to see) and this is despite the fact the camera appears to have been shot above base ISO.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Samuel Spencer

Take a look at the Real World Shooting Raw DR page, there the D810 is at ISO 64 for a comparison to the a7R II. In the meantime, I'll work on getting the D810 added to that widget at ISO 64.

1 upvote
dbm305

The review clearly shows the benefits of waiting a while before publishing it. You guys have learned so much about the camera and how it works and how to work with it since it's come out, that it makes the review a compelling read and a useful resource in the way that something banged out after a few weeks of use and a few studio tests could never be.

22 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

You are my favorite reader today. Possibly of all time.

12 upvotes
The Silver Nemesis

Finis coronat opus, DPR edition.

3 upvotes
NarrBL

A nice thing to say, actually, that the finish crowns the work.

I'd be a little less Latinate, though, as before looking this up on Google, I had the impression you might be saying something less nice....

0 upvotes
NoMirror99

@TSN: Hey don't you know that Latin is a dead language? Why even the Latinos don't use it nomore.

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
eno2

Nice and detailed review, thank you!

Please fix the gallery once and for all!
Clearly mark with RAW all the edited photos and leave the unmarked ones out of the camera JPEGs. Better yet, shot JPEG and RAW side by side for a true comparison. In the current state the gallery is a total mess, it's very hard to know which photos are converted from RAW, and which ones are in camera JPEGs.

0 upvotes
Stephane R

Will this camera overheat in movie mode or did Sony manage to fix those recurrent overheating issues?

0 upvotes
Ed Ingold

I used my A7Rii to shoot a two hour concert (29 minutes at a time) with an external power supply. It did not overheat, or even get warm to the touch.

The reason there is a 29 minute limit is political, not technical. There is an additional 6% import duty on "video" cameras which can shoot clips of indefinite length.

2 upvotes
Stephane R

My Sony A5100 and A6000 overheat after 14 minutes of use, sometimes less than that

0 upvotes
KAMBIC

Steph you are lying, Ed said they don't overheat so by god, they don't overheat.

0 upvotes
Paul B Jones

Fantastic advance in camera technology - reason for all photographers to rejoice, even those who wouldn't necessarily purchase it (sports/wildlife/super telephoto shooters).

6 upvotes
rev32

90%? Really? What does the D810 get, which clears the sensor more quickly and can be used for sports and wildlife? 95%?

0 upvotes
ttran88

But it only has 36MP

0 upvotes
merkaba

aw didums

8 upvotes
rev32

Not to mention the AFC issues mentioned, only one card slot, changing batteries in the middle of a basketball game etc.
6 MP above D810 isn't enough of an advantage. Its a COOL camera. I'd have one to use with my D810 but it does not replace my D810 by any stretch of the imagination. I strongly believe that the D810 is still the best all around camera on the market. I like the Sony. I've tried it. But not instead of D810 in many shooting situations.

Comment edited 5 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
merkaba

cool, you should make a review website

14 upvotes
HowaboutRAW

rev32:

The D810 doesn't have real solid video.

But indeed in many ways it's a better stills camera.

4 upvotes
tonywong

The D810 is a very good camera, but it is SLR sized (not always a plus to be small like the A7R2 depending on lenses).

D810 also does not have IBIS, 4k video, no MILC short flange distance for adapted lenses (with autofocus), no tilt screen, no wifi, no nfc.

More importantly the A7R2 has great dynamic range, which none of the Canons have, but the Sony can use a lot of Canon glass with almost native speed and AF accuracy. That doesn't make it a big deal to Nikon folks but for Canon people this camera is giving them a lot of features not present in Canon bodies.

6 upvotes
EvilTed

I have a Nikon D810 and D750 as well as a Sony A7r II and A7s II.
They are different cameras for different use cases.

For Landscape and Astro (tripod) - D810.
For Sports - D750
For Wildlife - D810 or D750
For Long and Fast zooms - Nikon

For Handheld - Sony
For Low light - Sony
For Travel - Sony
For Street - Sony
For Primes - Zeiss on Sony
For Slower lighter zooms - Sony

I previously owned Leica M and MM and the best glass.
Sony with Zeiss is better IMHO.

I previously owned A7 II and A7s and sold them to buy Nikon, but missed the EVF and hand
hold-ability so sold Leica and bought back into Sony, but this time with Loxia and Batis lenses.
They make a BIG difference.

HTH

13 upvotes
rev32

no thanks. I have a day job still.

0 upvotes
rev32

Evil, thanks for the "i use this for this purpose chart." I feel like that supports what I was saying.
Rev

1 upvote
rev32

HowaboutRaw:
I think you are right. I don't do video unless I absolutely have to.
You'll note that after months of talking, going to shows, and much fascination with different cameras and systems, including Leica and Sony, I did buy the D810. I would be like EvilTed and have many cameras. I guess being evil pays better then being good, but I like to think that I'll end up in a better place!
Rev.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

Both the D810 and A7Rii seem to be very good cameras.
I would prefer the Sony.

Differences for me....
Tilting VS fixed screen (I don't want to go back to a fixed screen camera again).
EVF VS OVF (I don't want to go back to an OVF again)
The Sony is cheaper (MSRP).
The Nikon has ISO 12800 max.
The Sony has the larger pixel count (and larger APSC crop mode)......I am fine with 12, 16 and 24mp for my cameras though.
The Sony has much better video.
The Sony is 2/3 the weight.
The Sony has far more lenses available (the Nikon has more natively).
There is nothing to stop the Sony being used for sports and wildlife......may not be the "best" camera for that but it would still be better than many others.
They are nice cameras for different segments for the most part.

3 upvotes
rev32

Great Neil!
If Sony is right for the photography you do, that is fantastic. For me doing a lot of sports indoor and outdoor some of the sony shortcomings that the reviews mentioned were deal breakers. The review was correct in the final thumbs down statement, that the 7R2 is not the best for sports.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW

rev32:

The D810 is an excellent stills camera, no you'll need to find a way to get excellent full framed specced lenses. I'm sure you have some already.

1 upvote
HowaboutRAW

neil:

The max ISO of the D810 is a lot higher than 12,800. And the D810 is a better higher ISO body than the A7RII.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

Yes to the bit about max being higher than 12800 (I was going to edit but got there too late).
DPR lists it as 12800 max in the side by side but it is actually 51200.
As to the D810 being better at high ISOs.....
Hahahahahahahaha.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
HowaboutRAW

neil:

Sorry the A7RII suffers cyan and magenta blotching in shadows above ISO 10,000.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

I am not going to get into yet another one of these endless arguments with you.
I will simply say I disagree with you yet again.

4 upvotes
rev32

HowaboutRaw,
For my sports photography I went with the Nikon 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 as very good general purposes lenses that focus quickly. I was not impressed with the way Tamaron lenses worked in D810. I would have lost to many shots.
Since I can not afford Zeiss primes, and since when I am not shooting sports, sharpness matters more then speed, I'lm thinking of several Nikon D series lenses that actually rate higher for sharpness then the current G series. Again, as much wonderful press as Tamaron and Sigma get I wasn't impressed with their function on the D810 body. Sure wish I could afford Zeiss.
Photography is a series of compromises just like life, We have to figure out whats for us, what we can afford, and what just won't work for us.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW

neil:

Okay.

0 upvotes
neatpicture

@rev32
DPreview tents to prize innovation with their rating, and in this regard the A7RII outdoes the D810 by a long shot.
While the D810 definitely gaisn in sports and wildlife it loses in many others. Again different tools for different uses.
IBIS, electronic shutter and the ability to adapt to virtually any lenses, including Leica is absolutely HUGE. Not to mention the feat of a FF BSI. I am sorry but I agree with DP for giving Sony more credits with this accomplishment. D810 is just another well made mature DSLR with a superb sensor in it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Chris Joy

How's the 4k video on the D810?

0 upvotes
Walter

Real world DR test ..Sony vrs.... 5DSR ...seriously skewed ? I downloaded the raw files and the 5DSR is exposed about 2 stops under in the dusk shot over that of the Sony...am I missing something here....?

0 upvotes
photomedium

More like 1.5 stops and that's about the diff in DR in the shadows. That's the noisy canon sensor for you.

0 upvotes
Walter

Did some more looking ..the Sony is very nice low light camera...:)

0 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

No, actually, the exposures between the a7R II and 5DS R are exactly the same (1/2s | F8).

You're probably comparing the a7R II from the Nikon comparison, which was shot at a different time, different exposures, etc. That's why we didn't make all 3 cameras comparable - we only made a7R II vs. D810 and a7RII vs. 5DS R comparisons, because the comparisons were shot at slightly different times (I shot this all myself, and could operate all 3 cameras at once while extensively bracketing).

Please check again; you can just hover your mouse over the 'info' tabs to check exposure. No need to download the files.

2 upvotes
Walter

No I was comparing the right ones...I see that the exposure is the same for both yet the 5DSR raw image without any processing appears at least a 1.5 stop darker... Opened both in ACR latest version on my calibrated monitor. I would normally expose more for the shadows and pull the highlights back as under exposed shadows will always be more noisy.... The Sony performs well in low light....correct exposure in a well lit studio will separate the two..both are good.

0 upvotes
Cheng Bao

About strong magenta cast at the bottom, I heard that's radiation of ADC column.
Very high sensitive sensors could pickup the infrared radiation from ADC at highest ISO. You can see similar problem from A7s studio photos.

Casting at bottom means adc column is on the top of sensor.

I cannot assert this, but it makes sense to me.

To avoid this, you have to make it stacked sensor, that ADC would be under the sensor

0 upvotes
jakegrahamphotography

Why is everyone whining about battery life?
Toss a few spares in your pocket and problem solved, the things are tiny

35 upvotes
NDT0001

Because this is the internet and every individual snow flake thinks its their duty to find something to complain about.

26 upvotes
jakegrahamphotography

Just making sure I haven't lost my mind all of a sudden, there are many ways to get around "issues" with cameras but it seems a lot of people are just too lazy to do the research and put in the effort to figure those out

4 upvotes
neil holmes

Because Sony haters who never shoot three hundred photos in a day themselves need something to bag Sony for and repeat endlessly.

Better battery life would be better....of course it would but for very few people this would be an issue that makes the camera unusable. For those people there are lots of nice cameras from other makers.

8 upvotes
Barney Britton

Shooting video in the cold, the poor battery life of the a7-series is hugely frustrating. Especially if the camera is built up on a shoulder rig, which can make accessing the battery port difficult.

Just a thought.

Comment edited 9 seconds after posting
13 upvotes
pacnwhobbyist

People I think need to have patience and realize that mirrorless cameras are still working out some of the kinks. This will become less and less of an issue with subsequent model releases, I think. Not just with Sony but with other camera makers as well.

0 upvotes
neil holmes

Barney, in that case, I would suggest using something else (video in the cold on a rig).

If not on a rig though, again, not too many instances that you could not change a battery.

0 upvotes
tonywong

The miserable battery life is still a minus, you shouldn't ignore it. My A7R2 got switched on by accident in my bag and by the time I got to my destination (2 hours) it was nearly flat (19%). Luckily I had spares but I had a lucky return journey to the motel to grab the extra that was charging, otherwise I wouldn't have made it through the day (4 batteries per day).

1 upvote
oeriies

People are complaining about a real limitation of the camera. I own two SONY cameras with small batteries (RX1 and a6000). I carry spares but it is like driving a car with a very tiny gas tank -- always checking on how much is left in reserve and looking for an opportunity for the next refill. And I've lost shots when the battery gave out at inopportune moments. Sounds like the battery grip helps at lot with the A7r ii, but a bigger battery would be better.

2 upvotes
NarrBL

Aren't you guys forgetting the use of properly designed video frames or external battery packs for many of these situations? For example, http://cametvblog.com/tag/external-battery/, and http://briansmith.com/external-battery-sony-a7-a7r-a7s-ii/ . Apprecated Barney's straigntforwardness here as well.

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
meta4one

So, I have an A6000 and can rightlly be called a Sony fanboy. The battery life is readily managed in normal weather, but can be a real pain in frigid temperatures where they can dissipate their power in minutes during prolonged exposure to the cold. Definitely not a deal breaker and somewhat inevitable given the dependence of mirrorless on electronics.

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
tonywong

The external USB battery pack is a great addition, but I wouldn't want to count on it simply because the usb connector is exposed, and bumping a the cable at the mount point is a recipe for a damaged port. Great for long exposure shooting on a tripod, but for run and gun I'd rather use a grip with an extra battery, which makes the A7R2 merely passable in battery life.

0 upvotes
Roland Karlsson

One can wonder why so many come to the defense of a camera every time it is reported that it has bad battery life? Is it an advantage or a disadvantage that the battery life is poor? Yes, disadvantage! So, why complain at that conclusion.

And yes, there are workarounds. There are workarounds to almost all disadvantages. They are still disadvantages though. Just maybe less so if there are reasonable workarounds.

4 upvotes
neil holmes

Of course it is a disadvantage and could be better.

The point is that for most users it is not going to be a major issue....for some it will be a deal breaker.

I have never had any issue with running out of battery with any camera including my A7s/A7. Indeed, I would often run out of card space with previous cameras ....with the A7s needing a 64GB card for XAVC-S video, that is not an issue at all now either.
If I am going to shoot over a thousand photos a day (like at a larger multi band concert or festival), I just take a couple of extra batteries.....simple and they are so small and light it doesn't matter.....my camera bag has myriad small pockets to put them in too...
For continuous video on a rig, sure it will be limiting...buy something else if that is your thing.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson

See .. you defend it. Why? It is just ticked off as a disadvantage. And it is. Why defend it? It just gives the impression that it is important.

1 upvote
NarrBL

Roland, I think you are at the moment getting too much involved with the infighting part of comments here.

The point on the batteries would be that there are in camera-accessories-land many ways to deal with any capacity issues -- if you have them.

I was also truly interested that by removing and replacing a battery, you are also swapping out what may be one of the main heat sources contributing when in hot climates to thermal protection interruptions.

Practical things for persons using practical cameras, yes?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
NoMirror99

The only reason anyone is responding to a post about battery life is because, THE POINT HAS BEEN MADE AD NAUSEM. I suspect that Sonys have short battery life, is well known to everyone on the planet owning a camera. But the equation as to whether to buy one or not is a simple one. If you want the best image quality available in a FF sensor, you buy Sony. In photography, it's the image that matters, Nothing else.

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Angrymagpie

I don't complain about the battery life much since I always carry a few extra batteries with me. But the thing that drives me a little unhinged is how slow it is for the camera to registers the new battery - it basically turns into a brick for a few seconds before you can continue shooting. This can be a problem if you are covering a dynamic scenario - but only a minor one.

0 upvotes
KAMBIC

So does Barney's comment here make him a "Sony hater", as Neil puts it?

0 upvotes
KAMBIC

@nomirror99, I disagree that the sensor is the only thing that matters. Yes it's the image we are after, but that image doesn't just show up on it's own. A sensor without a lens, or without AF, it's worthless. Flash systems are important to many shooters.

I also wonder, if Nikon come out with a D820 and push this 42mp sensor beyond what Sony has (which usually happens), what will you say then? Something tells me IQ will then be #2 to small size.

0 upvotes
Zorak

My body is ready. My wallet, not so much. :/

7 upvotes
NoMirror99

What! Don't you have a first born you can part with?

1 upvote
ttran88

Warning âš  Reading this review will cost you $3200.

29 upvotes
Roland Karlsson

ha ha ... the best reply yet!

0 upvotes
caravan

In just a few short years Sony has raised the bar,and is doing some really great work,keep it up.

9 upvotes
bluevellet

They've raised prices most of all.

7 upvotes
Hugo808

Only 42mp? Yawn, I'll wait for a month and get A7R111...

7 upvotes
ttran88
4 upvotes
Hugo808

Only half lame. We all know there will be a mk111 out be christmas and then everyone in the comments will be whining that their camera is out of date like they did when this one came out a few days ago...

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
photomedium

it that was true it wouldn't get reviewed here until this time next year, so you have time to deal with whiners.

1 upvote
mobyline

Hi folks,
please help me understanding this point under Cons: "Camera drops to 12-bit mode in continuous shooting, dropping dynamic range"
In my opinion this technically not true. The dynamic range is a result of the whole system, dropping to 12bit doesn't change that. After dropping there are only less steps representing the dynamic range. The effect will be banding visible earlier. The extreme example is, you can represent the whole dynamic range with 1bit only... 0 for the darkest point and 1 for the brightest one.

Am I wrong?

1 upvote
jtan163

Yes your wrong.
The DR is as a result of the whole system that part you're right about.
But 12 bit means part of the system is reducing the range of data you can record by a fact of 4.
A bit doubles or halves the range a data you can record.

Here's the real number.
2**12 (12 bit) allows you to record 4096 levels per channel (RGB).
2**14 (14 bit) allows you to record 16384 levels per channel (RGB)

So the camera can see 16384 levels in a channel when shooting continuous, but you only get to save 4096. That means you're throwing away a lot of values, even if its only a small sacrifice in bits.

0 upvotes
miksto

jtan163, I think you really missed the point mobyline is making. Mobyline's point may be quite valid. You talk about how many levels can be recorded with 12 bit vs 14 bit but levels do not change dynamic range - they are levels inside the same dynamic range. So you may get more accurate levels within the same dynamic range.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Roland Karlsson

Am I in an alternate universe? Where dynamic range not is the dynamic range? Lets throw away 10 more bits! Still the same dynamic range? Lets throw away all bits ...

0 upvotes
Revenant

What the OP is saying is that DR and bit depth are two different concepts. The former is the difference between the brightest recordable value and the point at which the signal gets swamped by noise, and it's expressed in EV or 'stops'. The latter is the number of bits you use to represent that DR.
The length of an interval and the number of discrete units you divide that interval into, are two different things. So changing the bit depth doesn't necessarily change the DR, but it of course depends on where in the range information is discarded.

0 upvotes
Eric Hensel

Excellent, balanced review.
I'll be picking one up this spring, used.

0 upvotes
HowaboutRAW

Perhaps some real world non-lossy compressed raws would be apt for the samples.

I realize the studio scene has some. But all of the real world raws are in the 41MB size range, they should be twice that.

1 upvote
pgb

What artefacts are you seeing in the compressed samples ?
Could you point them out.

7 upvotes
rhurani

2 things I hate about this camera:

- 399 PDAF sensors could easily be increased to 400
- 599g weight could as well go up to 600g to balance the lens.

When I buy something for 999.99 I always insist to pay the full 1000 to boost retail economy

44 upvotes
Rishi Sanyal

On behalf of all the OCD people of the world: touché :)

19 upvotes
neil holmes

I always ask for a discount to boost MY economy.

2 upvotes
Roland Karlsson

The next best post so far.

0 upvotes
Douglas Boyd

Congratulations to the dpreview staff and Rishi for this excellent review. This is the best ever of this site, and covers many complex technical points against a background of noise from "internet experts". Well done.
==Doug

11 upvotes
h2k

Agreed that there was oodles of profound information, and (having read nothing else) the Conclusion was smoothly worded.

0 upvotes
Total comments: 1482
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