Sony Alpha 7S Review: Digital Photography Review

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A Filmmaker's Perspective

By Andrew Reid, EOSHD.com

Key points for filmmakers

The Sony a7S shoots the best looking internally captured 1080p video of any current mirrorless or DSLR camera. However, shooting 4K with the a7S is less ergonomic and less affordable compared to some of the competition. The Panasonic GH4, Samsung NX1 and Canon 1D C all have internal 4K recording, which is more convenient.

As a filmmaker I find the a7S has some great creative advantages over a number of other cameras, thanks to the 12MP full-frame sensor with stunning low light capabilities, adaptable mirrorless lens mount, and the built in EVF. Disadvantages include the lack of an internal 4K codec and the need to buy quite a few add-ons such as lens adapters, external recorders and battery grip to make up for the limited (and too expensive) E-mount lens range and poor battery life. I am not a fan of workarounds and they all add to the cost of the body!

That said, I very much enjoy shooting plain old 1080p with the a7S. If the a7S was a film look, it would be creamy and dreamy 65mm, as used to great effect by Christopher Nolan in Inception. By comparison the Panasonic GH4 has more of a documentary style, with fine grain and a similar feel to Super 16mm - The Hurt Locker springs to mind. Neither style is ‘right or wrong', they're just different. Subject/background separation is more abundant on the a7S at every focal length compared to APS-C or Micro Four Thirds. Shooting full-frame with the a7S allows for a three-dimensional-looking image even when the subject is at a medium distance rather than close to the lens. The trade-off is that focus is trickier, especially for moving subjects.

Video recorded on Sony a7S using internal XAVC-S codec at 24p and 120p. (Also includes some footage from the Nikon D750.)

In comparison to the a7S, the 2.3x crop of the GH4 makes for a flatter feeling image at the same equivalent field of view, for example 10mm instead of 24mm for a wide angle shot. Additionally, for those looking for an extremely shallow depth of field, it's easier to achieve on the a7S at 24-50mm compared to the equivalent field of views on a crop sensor. You don't have to resort to longer focal lengths and super fast apertures as often. When the subject is close to the lens, differences between crop and full-frame sensors become less noticeable. In particular, for extreme close-ups with a lens such as the Canon 100mm F2.8L Macro, focus is so shallow on full-frame to be almost unmanageable. A crop sensor is still an advantage for macro and telephoto work.

The Sony a7S has an excellent quality APS-C crop mode, with no loss of detail in 1080p compared to full-frame mode (unlike the Nikon D750). However there is a loss of quality in full-frame 50/60p mode, so shoot 24/25/30p for the best quality. If you need the best 1080p image at 60p from a full-frame sensor, the Nikon D750 will give you this. Also bear in mind, the 4K image over HDMI is significantly sub-par in APS-C crop mode with heavy artifacts, moire and false detail compared to the ‘real' 4K mode on the a7S which is full-frame and native 3840 x 2160 without any upscaling.

Creatively, I found the 120fps mode of the a7S very interesting but it produces soft results with quite a lot of moire. The NX1 and GH4 have a better image in 120fps and 96fps respectively but again both cannot escape moire and aliasing in this mode, so shoot at the cinema frame rate of 24p for best quality.

Rolling shutter is severe in full-frame 24/25/30p on the a7S. In APS-C crop mode it's much less of a problem. The skew is due to the time it takes to output every pixel from the 12MP sensor to produce each frame of video - around 25ms. This has the advantage of giving us much better image quality, but the disadvantage of slanted verticals with fast moving subjects.

Grading flexibility

The appearance of S-Log2 on the a7S represents the first time that Sony's professional picture profile has been implemented on a consumer camera. Prior to this S-Log was a $4000 upgrade to Sony's professional CineAlta cinema camera, the F3. S-Log2 can be finely tuned in-camera and it will give you a more cinematic image with an increased dynamic range over the standard color profiles. Unfortunately it's not a free lunch. S-Log2 has a minimum available ISO of 3200 and cannot go below, therefore you will need to use very fast shutter speeds or very strong ND filters in bright light, especially if shooting at fast apertures for the typical 'full-frame' shooting style. Ideally video needs to be shot at 1/50 for the most film-like motion cadence.

S-Log2 requires time and software expertise in post production to get it looking right. It's also tricky to shoot with as there's no built-in view assist, making exposure more difficult from the extremely low contrast display, and gauging color virtually impossible. Showing actors or clients low contrast S-Log2 material in-camera doesn't make for a very satisfying viewing experience.

Slow motion video shot at 120 fps on the Sony a7S between ISO 3,200 and 12,800 (S-Log)

Grading S-Log2 footage is also a challenge - beginners should approach with caution. I personally find myself spending a lot more time with software and a lot less time shooting as a result! The red channel in particular (with S-Log and S-GAMMUT enabled) needs an expert adjustment to balance it, otherwise reds have a purple bias. The flat picture profile on the Nikon D750 and the Canon LOG profile on Cinema EOS cameras is much lighter log and the desired look is far simpler achieve in post with these cameras.

External HDMI recording with the Atomos Shogun

Like the GH4, the Sony a7S can output a 4K feed over HDMI to an external recorder and/or display. Unlike the GH4, the HDMI output is of utmost importance since the camera does not have an internal 4K codec at all. So, for those wanting 4K you are compelled to buy an external recorder (currently in the region of $2000).

File sizes and compression quality for 4K recording on the a7S are therefore at the mercy of whatever codec is offered by your recorder, usually ProRes. File sizes end up far larger than the internal 1080p XAVC-S codec. I recommend ProRes LT as a good balance between quality and file sizes in 4K, but with a data rate of over 400Mbit, compared to 50Mbit for XAVC-S, it eats up 8x the hard drive space for 4x the resolution.

Video shot on Sony a7S using 4K HDMI out to Atomos Shogun recorder.

For in-depth information about 4K recording on the Sony a7S and the Atomos Shogun, you can see my shooting experience and reviews at EOSHD here:

http://www.eoshd.com/2014/12/winters-mirror-sony-a7S-atomos-shogun/
http://www.eoshd.com/2014/12/atomos-shogun-review-part-1/

High end features for pros

The low light performance of the a7S makes it unique, even around professional cinema cameras like the Sony F55 and Red Dragon. The small size of the camera is also an appealing aspect for filmmaking pros used to much larger rigs. If equipped with an equally small lens the a7S also becomes practical for professional drone use.

S-Log2 is a fantastic feature on the a7S for professional colorists. They will be able to match shots from the a7S to material shot with other professional Sony cameras like the F55. It makes a great small B-camera on a F55 or F5 shoot and also makes a good companion to the mid-range Sony FS7. S-Log2 is more challenging if you're a beginner. Experts will get on well with it.

The a7S does not do quite as nice a job of packaging the myriad features together into a cohesive whole as does the GH4. I prefer the ergonomics of the GH4 for video, and some basic usability aspects are poor on the a7S, such as the placement of the video record button. In terms of build quality the a7S feels like a consumer toy compared to a cinema camera like the Red Dragon or a professional grade DSLR such as the Canon 1D C, which shoots 4K internally, has a native EF mount, and full compatibility with weather sealed L lenses. Although the a7S body itself is sealed against the elements, your 4K recorder and Canon lens adapter probably won't be.

For photo-video journalists who wish to capture both stills and video on assignment whilst traveling light, the inability to shoot stills in video mode on the a7S is another ergonomic quirk that should never have been in the final camera. Battery life can also be a weak point, due to the excessively small body. The Sony battery grip helps by holding two cells at once. The cells are so small you wonder why it couldn't house 4 of them! The GH4 will run 5x longer on a single battery compared to the a7S, a remarkable achievement by Panasonic.

These complaints do not obscure the fact that there's a number of huge features professional filmmakers will lust for on the a7S, but the price is rock bottom for pros, and reasonably accessible even for most consumers.

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Comments

Total comments: 443

I've had my A7s since July and love it. For me, the higher ISO is critical to get keepers as I'm often shooting in lower light and fast shutter speeds. If you can of course it's better to get the optimal camera body for each application. But in my case, I want something that I know will deliver consistently in a very broad range of light situations. Also the auto white balance is pretty good so I don't have to go RAW unless I'm doing something really critical. The negatives of the A7s are low priorities to me so I readily trade them out including lower resolution and slightly lower dynamic range at ISO 100.

All that being said, would love if v2 gets the in-body stabilization, a touchscreen for focusing and UI, and some more range of motion for the LCD screen. Faster AF a la A6000 please too. Overall I'm quite happy with this camera.

0 upvotes

Good Features 12MP full-frame EXMOR CMOS sensor

0 upvotes

On the subject Sony full frame lenses, where are the Loxia lenses listed on DPReview? I tried both the Sony and Zeiss lens directories and could not find them listed. Thank you in advance.

0 upvotes

Personally I would rather see how things look pushing 1, 2, or 3 stops using various ISO settings and not some target of 6400. I recall my 6D seems to have a stop and a half ability at ISO 800 that still looked reasonable in the shadows. Seeing one stop push from 200 Vs. 400 and the like would be more intersting to me. I fail to see how looking at the comparison of ISO 6400 as the target ISO is very useful given that noise is always more likely there in low light. To me varying the base ISO and then pushing that a few stops would seem more telling,but then the testing illumination would of course have to change. Using low ISO settings and decreasing light and increased exposure times would be intersting too.

0 upvotes

i would like for that sum to at least get a 10fps camera ..whats so hard about doing that ?

0 upvotes

I agree, you should develop one and show them how it is done.

5 upvotes

Funny reply but as someone who owns an A7s I fail to see why 10fps should not be possible from hardware that, in other Sony cameras with far greater pixels to record, manages up to 12fps.

More importantly why is the large still button disable in video mode forcing you to use the joke reset sized record button on the camera ?

2 upvotes

From what I can see that SONY puts itself in a bad position from its own innovation - too many products lines.

By using A7x and A7-2 for example, SONY *should* have two Lens line for:
- One line with OIS
- One line without OIS

OIS can be disabled, or IBIS can be partially being disabled for using lens' OIS.

BUT same SPECed OIS lenses are larger and expensive than lens without OIS, and the extra cost will be added up fast as we buy more and more OIS lenses. It is system camera, not P&S like RX1, RX10, RX100 lines.

BAD. is it not?

1 upvote

No. I don't think its bad. One OIS or not OIS, this or that, really? Sony is evolving quite nicely, incredibly in fact. 5 axis IBIS is a recent development probably from their association with Olympus. Not a bad thing. I wouldn't mind seeing non OIS lenses in the future, now, but they are pushing the industry and leaving many in the dust to play catch up. Perfect systems? No, not yet. But they're working on it hard and fast and I applaud their top shelf efforts.

7 upvotes

I like IBIS better than OIS b/c lenses are small and cheaper.

The BAD part is that A7-2 does NOT have popular FL none OIS zoom lenses for example. not even in the lenses road map.

4 upvotes

As an old Olympus user and still fan I've always thought IBIS was the smart move. Hopefully Zeiss and Sony are working on this message. It took Olympus more than a couple years to get into lens development after the E-1.

If Sony is going to get serious towards E mount, they'll have to and recent developments suggest they are moving in that direction. Not soon enough is the catch phrase for now.

0 upvotes

As a system camera that weather sealed Olympus OMD line is much better b/c its F2.8 Pro weather sealed zooms, it has 3 in total including the 7-14mm UWA will be soon released.

No other brands' mirror-less have these weather sealed faster zooms, UWA, WA and TELE.

Comment edited 21 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Problem with your argument being you are dealing with a 4/3 sensor vs. a full frame sensor. Yes 2.8 is faster, but you'll get even less DOF with f4 on a FF. And the better Sony's are weather sealed.

0 upvotes

@R Stacy;

Yea, M43 sensor is also kind of too small for low-light based on the current sensor performance.

Rumored a7000 [will have IBIS] is weather sealed with new [Zeiss?] weather sealed zoom, we will see.

For me, I'm looking for a system camera with 2 zoom, UWA and WA, and WA zoom has to be started @24mm. I need IS, and prefer IBIS for the reason I mentioned early.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Could someone inform whether any of these cameras can do simultaneous stills while videoing, like the Nikon V-cameras can, and some GH-cameras?

That is, a still capture or burst (pressing the shutter release) while videoing, with no effect on the video.

What is the point of a fusion of stills and vid if we can't do both at the same time? We are increasingly asked to do this by our customers/users.

If they can't, I'm wondering why not. Is there a technical constraint? Obviously SLRs can't, but a mirrorless with electronic shutter should be able to.

It seems such an obvious requirement of a stills/video hybrid camera.

Many thanks, and apologies if this has been covered. I've looked around without success.

0 upvotes

Great question! Just about every point and shoot and my EOS-M do this but I was very surprised/disappointed that my A6000 won't let me take a picture while filimg

1 upvote

I did not see you mention this. and it is important. 1080p full frame mode is pretty useless at 50/60p. It produce too much moire and aliasing. However at aps-c mode at 50p/60p. This is much reduced and perfect usable. So if one need 50p/60p slow motion, he better give up full frame mode and stick with aps-c mode.

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Not true. Eoshd and dozens of other websites have clearly shown very little Moire and Aliasing in 1080. Thats the whole point of the 12mp sensor and how it does its readout.

Nothing comes close to it for video for the price.

https://vimeo.com/105690274 (one excellent example)

6 upvotes

Not with the A7S! The full sensor readout and low pixel density are some of the great features that prevent those problems. The A7S is a landmark, having "raised the bar" quite higher than ever for video with this type of camera.

3 upvotes

I have been very tempted to go the A7II route, but I have to say the reports of cooked raws, plus my own experience that Sony raws are not as flexible as others', concerns me.

http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection

3 upvotes

Give way to your temptation and you will pleasantly surprised by the A7II's excellent image quality.

0 upvotes

Think I am going to wait.

0 upvotes

Trying to choose my first digital SLR to upgrade from my Canon Powershot 40 2MP point-and-shoot, which I love but have advanced enough to want something more powerful and full featured.

I'd like some advice if possible in choosing a make/model based on the types of photography I enjoy, and what you think would serve me best for such subject matter: nature, landscape/cityscape, portraits, street/candid, macro, winter, B&W, flora/fauna, architecture/perspective.

Been looking at the Sony A7, A7s, A7r, and the Alpha a-6000; Olympus OM-D E-M1 and Nikon D7100.

0 upvotes

I think you would be over the moon with any of those cameras. You could probably save yourself a lot of money by getting a D3200 twin lens kit or equivalent, which you would also be over the moon with and would address all your areas of interest.

Add an extension tube, a polarising filter, an external flash, a tripod, a remote release, a nifty fifty, a small backpack camera bag and possibly a GPS unit and 35mm 1.8 lens, and you would be ready to take on the world for less than the cost of an A7 body.

But of course it's entirely up to you - whatever grabs you will work. They all surpass us mere photographers.

0 upvotes

But be warned - you'll miss your point-and-shoot. You'll go through a period of saying, "I would have made a better shot with my old camera." You'll either get through it or trade it all in on an FZ200.

1 upvote

Grab an A6000 with the 16-50 and 18-135 f4 lenses and you'll be in heaven for some time and won't miss your p&s. After that, there'll be no limits for you!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

TYFYR. You don't mean the kit lens, do you? People kvetch about it. From Sony's site: R U referring to DT16-50 f/2.8 SSM (SAL1650) instead? Can't find a Zeiss 18-135 f4 but did find DT18-135 f/3.5-5.6 (SAL18135) are these Zeiss lenses everyone's raving about? Drooling over the Zeiss 90mm f/2.8 macro coming out but must set some hay aside to throw down the $1K needed to pick one up.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

So.....you shoot nearly every type of photography? ;) Also, I don't know what your definition of "street photography" is, but have you managed to get the street photography results you're after using your Canon p&s? Just curious.

Personally, I don't know what to tell you, since you're interested in so much (which is good), but I think anything would be OK for you at this point. Sorry, but all the cameras you mentioned are extremely capable, so pick up any of them and get great results in most cases. Buy the most well-priced option, or wait for a sale and let that decide your fate.

If you want more specific advice, then you'll need to either narrow down your interests to be more specific, or tell us which focal lengths you're most interested in shooting.

On that last note, I"m not sure if you know which focal length is if you're coming from a point and shoot! Do you know if you mostly shoot wide, or do you zoom in a lot?

Also, what's your budget???

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I mention several types seeking advice for a good "overall use" set up. Street stuff is mostly candid work. Narrowed down my favorite subject matter is B&W, land/cityscape, nature, and macro. Would love learning how to photograph the Milky Way and, if I ever got good enough to earn money for it, portraiture.

I'm aware of focal length. I'll need a "fast" (F/1.4/1.8) wide angle (17-24mm?) for landscapes; 35-50mm for portraits and a medium range zoom or prime telephoto for nature. As I already have three manual focus Zuikos (50mm f/1.8; 35-70mm f/4; 85-250 f5) and want to use them I guess I should opt for the Sony Alpha a-6000 with a metabones adapter and then obtain Sony-Zeiss 90mm f/2.8 macro and one of the fast E-mount wide angles. Your thoughts?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Two basic questions to dpr:

1) which sw did you use to manipulate raw in the new tests?
2) will you be doing these new tests fir all the new cameras you test? (I hope so!)

1 upvote

1) ACR/Lightroom 2) We hope so, when it's relevant, anyway!

0 upvotes

thx!

0 upvotes

The 7S is a great camera, I used it during last new year's eve without a flash and the resulting photos are just amazing.
HOWEVER: What I am missing, from an amateur's photographer point of view, is a decently fast zoom lens (24-105 or 18-200 mm).

0 upvotes

So do I :-) I Would very much like to buy a 7s but am hestitant due to the lenses offered.

0 upvotes

I agree there is a serious lack of lenses and if it were not for the third party adapters I could not recommend purchasing the a7S. Speaking from personal experience with the adapters and a good selection of manual and AF lenses, the lack of Sony lenses is not a issue. If I were in the market for additional lenses the high sensitivity of the a7s no longer forces me to buy fast lenses. Another reason I purchased the camera is for astrophotography. This is where the a7s really out performs all the other cameras I have, since it enables me to accurately focus on stars that I cannot see with my eyes in the sky with heavy light pollution. With a push of a programmed button I can magnify the field of view to such a degree that the slightest touch of the focusing knob makes the faintest stars appear, and another touch they disappear. The result of accurate focusing and a light sensitive camera is very rewarding to me.

Comment edited 15 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Regarding the DR & RAW comparison at the end of the review... whille the compressed raw files warrant review, the DPReview test is also flawed by not using the base ISO values for each CMOS sensor.

The higher exposure latitude or dynamic range possible will be available while utilizing the image sensors at their native base setting. For the A7R it is somewhere between 100-160, while the A7S is 3200. If you aren't flexing the A7S at 3200 you are crippling the range it will be able to reproduce. In the interest of squeezing the most in terms of DR from these cameras proper respect is also needed for how the components are designed.

We often assume that the lowest ISO (native) is best, and it generally is. However the test images were shot at ISO100. You wouldn't seriously test cameras for comparison via extended ISO settings would you? Use the accurate native ISO of the image sensors or else you are comparing apples to oranges.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Our testing (and DxO's) lead us to the conclusion that ISO 100 is the base ISO, in the sense that it appears to utilize the minimal level of amplification and offer the maximum DR.

What leads you to the conclusion that it's ISO 3200, so that we can test our findings?

4 upvotes

Had we shot a proper dynamic range test using ETTR methodology with the a7S at ISO 3200 and the a7R at ISO 100, the a7S would do even worse than it did in our shootout of the cameras at ISO 100. It'd have lost yet another stop or so of dynamic range.

Our wedge shots verify the camera has less dynamic range at ISO 3200 than at ISO 100, which is absolutely expected, as base ISO maps a full pixel well to white in the digital Raw file. Higher ISOs map a less-than-full-pixel-well to white, which can help get lower tones further away from the noise floor, but never as much as it'll hurt the brighter tones that are thrown away b/c they exceed the max signal the ADC has been optimized to map to white.

The bigger question is: where are folks getting the notion that ISO 100 to ISO 1600 are 'extended' settings on the a7S?

They absolutely are not.

0 upvotes

Maybe there's a little confusion - the base ISO for the SLOG gamma when shooting video is 3200. That's not the case when shooting stills.

3 upvotes

Question to Mirrorless experts:
I recently considered to add to my cameras collection a mirrorless but I could not find out how you can keep your lens wide open while setting a small diaphragm. In other words, when I work in studio, I do not want to preview the exposure but set the exposure for the flashes, to say f11 while having a bright image on the screen with the modelling lights. Can all mirrorless do that? which ones do?
Thanx!

0 upvotes

Oh boy, you're opening a can of worms there :) We're interested in this very topic b/c we feel that the Sony cameras' reticence to open up the aperture when acquiring AF cripples it in low light and for continuous AF, since focusing at a smaller aperture means less light and more DOF (so increased range of hunting).

But the behavior becomes rather convoluted once you try to factor in the amount of light the camera is 'seeing', the selected aperture, and the setting you have 'Live View Display' set to (Settings Effect On/Off). For Sony cameras, that is.

I'm having a hard time recalling other mirrorless cameras' behaviors at the moment, but we'll keep an eye out. Most DSLRs do what you're asking for though.

My best guess as to why some manufacturers do this: to avoid focus shift. But I can't imagine that's a big enough problem that you should always try to focus at/near the selected aperture, especially since DOF increases as you stop down anyway, masking focus shift.

0 upvotes

Thank you Rishi, I am considering indeed to get a Sony, I have to try that in the store. It will not be its primary use, but it would be nice to be able to :-)

0 upvotes

I've wondered the same thing. Working with studio flashes is perhaps the main reason I still have a Canon kit in addition to my M43 gear. With mirror less, shooting products you can increase the ISO to see what you're doing and set the focus, then decrease it for the shot. It certainly wouldn't work for people though! With M43 you don't need the power so perhaps continuous lighting of some kind is better suited, but for a FF mirrorless it's another matter. If someone has a way around I'd love to hear.

0 upvotes

I've been using the Olympus OMD for a little over a year, switching from Nikon--and will not go back. There is a setting to turn off exposure preview so the EVF stays bright, even though the exposure is for the flash and the subject is lit with modeling lights or the room light many stops lower.

The first time is used the camera on assignment, I didn't know how to change this setting and the view finder was almost completely dark. I was guessing my compositions, but I pleased the client--and that's what really counts.

2 upvotes

Sony A6000 has a setting for Liveview to just leave aperture wide open or not, I can't imagine the A7S doesn't have it.

Also Rishi I was wondering about effect of C-AF as well with 'simulated' liveview modes, but the behavior of the A6000 at least is not so simple...if you *want* a narrow aperture and the camera doesn't feel it has enough light it will open up the aperture further...the question then would obviously be in dynamic moving situations, having the camera take action to open up the aperture further will probably lose some keepers compared to just keeping it open all the time. In situations where there is enough light it probably doesn't matter, but in low light situations where you want a stopped down image, I imagine it would be to your advantage to not use simulated liveview (i forgot what they call it exactly).

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

Oh, actually, I think I misinterpreted your question. I thought you were interested in the aperture staying wide open, but you're more interested in a usable preview even when your exposure is set such that sans flash, you'd get a dark exposure.

In that case, yes, Sony does have a way of just keeping the preview at a reasonable brightness. You just set "Live View Display: Settings Effect OFF".

However, Timbukto - on Sony cameras, setting this to 'Off' does not actually mean the aperture stays wide open, since the aperture will close down if the camera 'thinks' the scene is bright. It'll then open/close the aperture to your selected aperture when acquiring focus, unless it thinks it needs to open it up b/c it's too dark, or close it down b/c it's too bright (to avoid saturation).

From there it gets really complicated really fast (as you say), as this behavior changes based on if the setting is 'on' or 'off'. I personally think the algorithms need some serious work.

1 upvote

Also, you say 'if the camera doesn't feel it has enough light it will open up the aperture further' - that's exactly where the problem lies, b/c the camera's algorithm for determining if it 'feels it has enough light' needs to be more conservative. Often it think it has enough light, but it doesn't - not enough to focus fast, anyway, so focus slows down. You then have to literally shut off like all the lights to get it to open up the aperture all the way. So at best, it's slowing itself down; at worst, it causes itself to fail.

Furthermore, not opening up the aperture means extended DOF, which means the camera has to search a wider range to detect focus. This becomes particularly egregious at smaller apertures. Say you want to ensure an erratically moving subject is absolutely in focus as it's running, and you're moving alongside it as well. You may wish to choose F8 for a higher hit rate. But the AF would be slowed due to DOF.

And no 'Live View Display' setting gets around this.

0 upvotes

The setting on the A6000 works fine because of the APS-C sensor combined with only f1.8 primes, etc and its PDAF capabilities. I can see where this becomes an issue on a FF sensor without PDAF capabilities.

So this setting that you find 'awkward' on the A7S works acceptably well on the A6000. I can see how a CDAF FF camera with such shallow DOF capability has enough difficulty to work with that the live view display settings are less than optimal (but perhaps CDAF on a FF sensor is already less than optimal).

Also with the A6000 setting the liveview settings effect off has in real-world circumstances has *always* given me wide open apertures in liveview and AF, but again I can see that this may differ with the A7S which perhaps has an extremely photosensitive sensor combined with a stop or so more light gathering for its available f1.8 primes.

Settings effect off does the trick for me with the A6000. I can see how it may be different on the A7S due to its lack of PDAF, etc.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

"Also with the A6000 setting the liveview settings effect off has in real-world circumstances has always given me wide open apertures in liveview and AF"

Interesting, I'll have to recheck that.

Remember though that with any given f-stop prime, the light per unit area is the same, so the a7S' pixels shouldn't be any more prone to saturate than the a6000's. As long as the FWC/pixel size ratio remains the same between the two cameras.

Yes CDAF is particularly susceptible to underperforming with stopped down apertures (b/c of the need to hunt more), but I'd imagine so are PDAF systems. Isn't there a smaller phase difference between 'left-looking' & 'right-looking' on-sensor PDAF pixels at smaller aperture? Perhaps this is balanced with sharper overall detail for the phase difference algorithms? Still, though, I'd imagine there's some crippling due to less light.

In fact, I'm impressed the a7 II continues to PDAF in well-lit interiors down to F8. Give it a couple generations and...

0 upvotes

It is interesting to see that the newer SONY A7-2 seems one stop noisy than older A7s in high ISO in the DPR's LAB testing results.

Not good.

0 upvotes

That's b/c it's likely the same sensor as the a7. The a7S pulls ahead even more at really high ISOs.

1 upvote

Is this turning into a Videocamera review site?
Glad to see an excellently performing full frame as a 4K videocamera. However it is a heavily handicapped expensive still camera, far from an all-round performer yet it gains a whopping 86% and gold award. I am starting departing from Dpreview opinions lately.

8 upvotes

Not all camera has to be an all-around performers. There is nothing wrong with a camera that is a specialist, whether it is high-end, high megapixel stills camera like Phase One or Hasselblad medium formats, or a video-oriented cameras like the Sony a7S and the Panasonic GH4.

And not everyone share your lack of enthusiasm for video. I for one have been venturing more and more into filmmaking in addition to stills, and the lines between stills and video has been blurred more and more ever since the introduction of the Canon 5D to the cinema world.

So kudos to DPReview for not ignoring an important segment in the camera world.

3 upvotes

Other cameras have been heavily penalized in the past for being specialized. I have not problem with giving full marks to a well designed specialized camera, I do have a problem when this is applied inconsistently. In this specific case it is even most obvious as this is more a video dedicated camera than a still camera, so again, it is even more of a problem in my eyes. For as still photographer it is really hard to justify to shell out this kind of money on a very limited still camera with limited lens selection. Even for a videographer I think it is hard to justify, because good 4K options will be readily available very soon, this camera will lose its marked value so fast. Poor investment unless somebody needs good 4K now and cannot wait.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 12 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

For Armandino, A7s isn't only a very good video camera, is THE BEST camera for low light. Check the dxomark to convince your self. Also no shutter noisy, it makes it ideal for concerts shots.

9 upvotes

"Best" is a qualitative expression. If the "Best" low light camera marginally edges other excellent cameras in the usable iso range holding you back in pixel count and AF performance it is a niche application, sorry. Especially when the system also suffers from limited lens choice. Electronic shutter is a nice touch indeed. Excellent iso performance and quite shutter do not make a gold and 86% to my taste if the rest is mediocre from a still point of view (we are talking of still cameras here right?)

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

We debated for a long time whether to score this as a video or stills camera, or both. And what the award refers to. It wasn't easy, and as always, there were compromises to both approaches.

Sorry you disagree with our final decision, but we were going to make some people unhappy, one way or the other.

8 upvotes

I guess it would be strange to judge the 7DII as only a portrait and landscape camera.
Tools should be (re)viewed for their intended purpose.

0 upvotes

If you want to check DXO, do it right. Look at the 18% SNR curve, it is virtually identical to the 6D from Canon. Look at the DR curve, you notice a huge and tell tale bump at ISO 6400. At ISO 3200 the curve would have dived under the 6D curve, but Sony starts to apply noise reduction above ISO 3200.
It is not the low light wonder Sony wants to make us believe or its 12mp low res. would suggest. Rather underwhelmed, to be frank.
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Nikon-Df-versus-Canon-EOS-6D___949_925_836
Also check the dpreview comparison tool.

2 upvotes

It does seem inconsistent. Great still cameras are often marked down for poor video, which is fair enough but the reverse should also apply

1 upvote

@brightcolours
What has noise reduction got to do with DR? Genuinely interested as I'd not realised there was a link?

0 upvotes

The lower the noise floor, the higher the DR. Sony Exmor sensors have higher DR due to lower read noise (because they have ADC on the sensor itself). Look at ISO 100, the 6D has lower DR caused by more read noise. The DR is "measured" by looking for a certain signal to noise ratio.

1 upvote

OK, thanks. Still not quite getting it yet though, I've checked DXO and understand the science now but not sure how noise reduction [as you put it] makes a difference in this case. To have any effect on DR wouldn't it also have an equal effect on the SNR 18% measurement too and hence show up in the SNR graph? The two are intimately linked right and the SNR graphs look linear to me.

0 upvotes

18% SNR is measuring signal to noise ratio on a midtone. Extended DR is in the dark blacks. As you will notice, the 6D/DF/A7s are all almost the same with the 18% SNR graph.

1 upvote

Brightcolors, the 6D is Was reviewed two years ago and can be purchased for about half the price of the Sony. Although it is clearly primarily for still photography.

0 upvotes

Very good review. Thank you for pointing out some of the not so true assertions made by the Sony marketing department.
Unfortunately some readers might not take the time to figure out that video from the 1.5 crop of the sensor can't really be 4K like you guys did.
The findings on dynamic range were interesting too.

For MJ FAP, multiple sources show the A7s is a couple EV shy of Sony's DR claim. DxO tested the A7s at every ISO and it never matched the A7R for DR at ISO 100, nor did it come close to the the Sony statement. That being said, overall the A7s DR is excellent at higher ISOs.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

1 upvote

Just remember that the Sony claims for DR, while extreme, are for video under special circumstances and are not that far off what people are able to get.

http://www.cinema5d.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Test-Scores_DR.gif

Take care.

0 upvotes

You're not going to get more DR out of the camera than what the Raw file provides at base ISO, which has been measured to be ~13EV by DXO. Unless the video signal pathway or output has something that bypasses the Raw signal pathway and the Raw signal pathway is somehow throwing away dynamic range.

Which I seriously doubt.

I wonder if Cinema 5D's results are from video that's had some level of noise reduction applied to it? If you apply NR to lower tones, you'd measure a deeper lower tone as having an acceptable SNR cutoff, thereby measuring a higher DR.

If that were the case, you wouldn't actually more DR than the 13 EV the Raw file provides, just more DR after NR - which is a non-standard way of measuring DR.

Either way, it still falls behind the Raw DR of the A7R, D810, D750, etc., b/c of increased downstream read noise compared to those cameras, which I personally think is due to quantization error b/c of the high FWC combined with the limited bit-depth of the ADC.

1 upvote

Great point, and again I wasn't challenging the results you achieved - just a different viewpoint.

0 upvotes

No, no, I'm glad you brought it up in fact. I'd seen that some time back & had made a mental note that we should investigate the source of the discrepancy. I'd still like to.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share!

2 upvotes

Hmm... You guys seem real proud that you have proven Sony liars about the dynamic range. Just one thing to note though. In your test of the A7R vs the A7s you made one huge mistake that renders your test conclusions mute. You tested one camera at its' base ISO(A7R base ISO100) but not the A7s(base ISO 3200). Not every camera has the same base ISO or the same point at which the highest dynamic range is achieved. For a test whose entire point is determining best dynamic range the obvious first thing to figure out is the actual base ISO of the camera in question and test at that point.

7 upvotes

good point. I was wondering that also.

I own the a7s and the Nikon D750 and at base iso of 3200 the results swing in favor of the Sony. (using RAW with lightroom 5.7.1)

1 upvote

Where did you get that notion? Both cameras were shot at ISO 100.

4 upvotes

Why do you think A7s has a base ISO of 3200?

If it had, the A7s would clip the image seriously at ISO 100.

4 upvotes

The A7s has a native ISO of 3200, just as he says. It is published information. And that IS where it gets its full dynamic range. Not at ISO 100. Horses for courses. At IS3200, DR of this camera will beat the A7r's, at least in Video, others have tested this.

It turns out to be rather tricky to actually get the full DR this camera has on offer.

2 upvotes

@Rishi. "Both cameras were shot at ISO 100 "

That is exactly my point. They shouldn't have been. Not if the goal was to find the true dynamic range potential. Base ISO is not always 100. It is for most cameras but not all. You seem to be making the wrong assumption that base ISO=100. Base ISO is the point for any given sensor where maximum dynamic range is possible. That is its' "native" ISO or where it is most happy. Anything outside of that up or down and image quality suffers. The A7s at 100ISO is outside of its' happy zone. Your review needs updated in that one section lest the credibility of the whole review be questioned. There is a reason Sony restricts the ISO in the higher dynamic range video settings S-log2 to 3200. That is because outside of this sweet spot the camera will not be able to capture enough dynamic range.

3 upvotes

"conclusions moot" surely, or were the conclusions unable to speak?

4 upvotes

The A7s has its maximum DR at ISO 80 according to DXOMark. There is also where it has its maximum TR and its maximum SNR. Where have you read that the native ISO is 3200? Sounds like nonsense to me.

@FineArtPhotographer - sure - let us take images at ISO 100 for A7r and at ISO 3200 for A7s and compare. That sounds more reasonable and fair - or?

1 upvote

We think we've worked out how you'd conclude that ISO 3200 is the native ISO (though we don't believe this to be the case). Could someone provide a source for this statement, so we can confirm or disprove our suspicions?

3 upvotes

Agree, I also want to have some reference of the claim.

NOTE that exactly what native ISO is can be disputed, as e.g. the ISO definition do not talk of such a thing.

To the best of my knowledge native (or base) ISO of a sensor is the ISO you get when you measure clipping of the sensor.

1 upvote

No, that's incorrect. The base ISO of the camera is 100, not 3200, as clearly demonstrated by DXO. That's where the camera has maximum dynamic range, as also demonstrated by DXO.

Perhaps you'd like to define the term 'native ISO'... preferably without the word 'happy' in the definition?

2 upvotes

wogg: "At IS3200, DR of this camera will beat the A7r's, at least in Video, others have tested this."

And at ISO 100, DR of this camera will beat DR of itself at ISO 3200... which is why we tested at ISO 100, where the camera DR is maximal.

If you have a high DR scene, you don't shoot at ISO 3200. On either camera. Not if there's anything you can do about it.

4 upvotes

Big mistake for dpreview. It seems you guys were a little bit too anxious.

2 upvotes

DP did it correct. A7r has better DR than A7s @ 100-400 ISO . A7s is better than A7r @ 3200 , but it's still nothing compared to what both cameras achieve @ 100.

2 upvotes

Googled a bit.. seems that ISO 3200 is the native (lowest?) ISO if shooting video in S-log2 mode. Just a video thing. Nothing to do with still images.

1 upvote

@Steen Bay - absolutely right, ISO 3200 is the lowest available ISO when using the SLog2 mode (which appears to equate to the same sensor amplification as ISO 640 mode does with a standard tone curve, confusingly). But at the sensor level, 'ISO 100' appears to be base in the sense of offering maximum DR.

Comment edited 17 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

Big mistake for people who think it was a big mistake for DPReview.

Max DR is at base ISO, which is 100. SLog2 does raise the minimum ISO to 3200, as we pointed out here. On that same page, we also pointed out that hardware level ISO amplification appear to go up 4x (to be more precise, between ISO 400 & 640 levels), so dynamic range actually drops w/ SLog2 compared to ISO 100. In fact, it was b/c of this that we specifically asked Sony engineers why they raised the minimum hardware-level ISO amp as opposed to simply applying a more aggressive tone curve in SLog2 w/ ISO 100 levels of amp, as the latter would preserve the maximum DR the camera can record. You could use higher ISOs if needed b/c of exposure limitations, but the option for ISO 100 levels of DR would've been nice w/ SLog2.

As it is, though, you're always paying a DR cost by enabling SLog2, which we feel is unfortunate, & goes directly against OP's notion.

8 upvotes

What'd be really nice would be if people actually read our reviews before making comments or making big assumptions that end up being completely wrong. A more appropriate way to address a topic you're clearly confused about is to merely ask us 'hey, as I understand it, it's like so-and-so... thoughts?'

I realize that's it's entirely unreasonable for me to expect civil behavior on the internet, but, still, it'd be nice.

Hope this clears up all the confusion.

7 upvotes

So the SLOG base ISO of 3200 was chosen why? I get that its for video but there has to be a reason Sony chose it for this particular sensor.

Not the end of the world however and it doesn't change Dpreviews excellent findings - especially since Sony will have a mega-megapixel FF camera coming soon for landscape photographers.

The a7s isn't for those customers anyway.

Peace.

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting

1 upvote

"So the SLOG base ISO of 3200 was chosen why? I get that its for video but there has to be a reason Sony chose it for this particular sensor."

Yes exactly, that's what we were wondering. And we never got an answer to it from any Sony rep, unfortunately.

I did make it clear though that in their next implementation, it'd be nice if they offered lower levels of hardware ISO amp.

In fact, we're confused about where the stated 'ISO 3200' even comes from- we measured ISO 640 levels of hardware amplification (by comparing clipping levels in Raw files for ISO 3200 SLog2 shots vs all other ISOs, finding that clipping occurred for the same tones in the scene at ISO 640 vs. a SLog2 ISO 3200 file).

I.e. SLog2 does affect the Raw- at ISO 3200, it's like a ISO 640 Raw in terms of actual Raw signal. But then the ISO 3200 SLog2 JPEG has a drastically non-standard tone curve applied. We figure it's called ISO 3200 b/c midtones are brightened to 3200-ish levels (but even, they're more like 1250).

4 upvotes

I appreciate the insight. I know it can be tiresome to see all the critics in these forums but your answering questions is helpful.

Cheers

4 upvotes

Thanks for the positive remarks!

0 upvotes

Just a thought around the ISO3200 labeling.
Isn't that, in auto-ISO, something that aims for that 17% grey, and that simply doesn't apply for SLog2?
So what to call it that people can somehow relate to?
- Let's choose 3200...

0 upvotes

Image quality comparable to other still camera at same ISO, worse at lower ISOs, only exceptional by availability of previously unattainable ISOs - still a gold award

I've never been a big worrier about dpr award colours but there is a rather obvious discrepancy here - are we to see other average cameras with niche features also getting golds?

oh - the video - I'm sure it is impressive - but it is video - not stills
j

3 upvotes

It doesn't have the D810 or A7r performance @ 100 ISO

Where it truly shines is at ISO 6400 and 12800 , where it's eating Df for cake http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7S-versus-Nikon-Df-versus-Sony-A7R___949_925_917

3 upvotes

Lassoni makes a good point and another positive of the A7s is how much color information is held onto by the camera as the ISOs rise - dynamic range charts are only part of the battle when showcasing what a camera can do. Nikon and Sony are so incredible these days that photographers are truly spoiled.

I never shot film above ASA 800. Yes 800....and now even Micro4/3rds can do that clean without issue.

Wonderful time to take pictures and have fun!

2 upvotes

stone age 12MP, a sketchy AF, expensive because of a soon to come common offering 4K video yet here it is for you a gold award and 86%
DPReview, time to sort your stuff out

Comment edited 9 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Damn near a year in coming, but a POS low-end Canikon gets here in a month. Thanks.

3 upvotes

You're very welcome (for the free service). Btw which POS CaNikon are you referring to?

11 upvotes

Adda boy Rishi, way to not take any crap from the mouthy little dreg...

0 upvotes

Rishi, you know as well as the rest of us that it's not "free". If you're not the customer, you're the product - as is the case here:

"With respect to comments or other text-based content you submit or make available for inclusion, you grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sublicensable right to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform, translate, create derivative works from and publicly display such content throughout the world in any medium."

"We reserve the right to make changes to the Web Site, policies, and these Conditions of Use at any time."

There is no opt-out specified, i.e. dpreview owns all content and can do whatever they want with it, including reproducing it in any form.

So I don't think you should be especially exempt from criticism - quite the opposite. You are on a payroll, not working for a charity.

1 upvote

@rishi:

In a market that moves very quickly. New products coming out every 9 months. Would you not agree that if a review is to be used as a benchmark for a purchase, then a review needs to surface relatively quickly?

I don’t think many are waiting for 12 months before a purchase... just to see what score DP has given a camera.

And if a review is not to be used as a benchmark for a purchase - what should it then be used for? Cosy Reading?

Today I use other sites then DP. DP is simple just too slow with new reviews. And personally I cannot wait 12 months before I make a purchase… and I’m just a private guy with a love for photography. Think about professionals.

DP you have to stop up – and release your reviews faster than today. I believe that most people would rather have a review come out fast and with fewer details – then wait a year and get a review with a lot of details. As said earlier… it’s a very fast moving marked.

Think about it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 54 seconds after posting

1 upvote

We understand what you're saying, and we agree.

1 upvote

@rishi: I hope I did not sounded too harsh. Do not misunderstand me. I love DPReview. Yoy have a GREAT site... and when your reviews come out - they are the best! But the best just not always win in this line of business.

0 upvotes

Would be nice to know that how does ISO-invariance depend on post processing software.

0 upvotes

It won't vary drastically, save for differences due to different levels of default noise reduction in different software packages.

0 upvotes

I love the video stills image comparison tool. Very helpful in trying to see the effects of sampling on moire etc. Just wish there were more cameras in that database to compare against, like the A5100 (if it's video is indeed based on full sensor readout as some press releases and reviews say)

3 upvotes

Thanks for informing us. We'll add the a5100 in.

3 upvotes

"Cons: ◾4K footage from APS-C region of sensor is disappointing"

Seriously? Who wrote that? APS-C in this camera is 12 / 1,5 / 1,5 = 5,3 MP.
4K needs least 8MP.

It should be clear for a child that this CAN'T have the full 4K resolution in APS-C mode!

2 upvotes

So we shouldn't point out the problem to people who aren't sitting there, working the crop dimensions out in their heads?

While Sony's website shows that the camera can output 4k from the Super35 region of the sensor, we should point out that it's not very good.

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

I think it should be written "APS-C region of sensor does not provide enough pixel for true 4K" or something like that. :)

3 upvotes

I think we're on to something here with regards to DR at base ISO.
This thing happened on the Nikon DSLRs such as the D800 against the D600 or D4s.
Amazingly, the DR of the d7000 in DXO is very close to these modern full frames.

0 upvotes

timely Sony a100 review to follow

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting

7 upvotes

I am waiting for the A7x. 24MP, 8fps, A6000 AF speed. Nice.

2 upvotes

You forgot the 4k

0 upvotes

Nope, didn't forget. I don't care about that. If they include it - fine, but I won't get much use from it.

2 upvotes

The A7S, by a long shot, takes more beautiful photos then any FF canera I have ever used before except the M9 and M240.

The ISO performance effectively makes it ISOless

It's a really special camera

16 upvotes

Have you tried what kind of images 36mp camera can take?

0 upvotes

Here is what I learned from this review.

1. Based on these test results the A7s does not achieve the Maximum Dynamic Range that Sony has claimed at its Base ISO.

2. The A7r achieves a better dynamic range at base ISO than the A7s.

3. The dynamic range and noise response for the A7s exceed that of pretty much all other cameras after about ISO 51,200. However, those results still may not be acceptable at that level.

4. The 1080p @ 60 FPS full sensor readout video in the A7s is the best compressed 1080p @ 60 video you get out of any camera on the market to today.

5. The high ISO video performance is exceptional and unmatched.

6. The cropped A7s 1080p video just isn't worth it.

9 upvotes

re 6:
A7s video in crop mode is pretty good and still better than any APS-C photo camera. Also, rolling shutter is acceptable unlike the ridiculous amount in FF mode.

3 upvotes

Seems pretty fair.

I would say that for 3) I would say it is not 51200 but 12800 for all but the 1Dx and D4s and 25600 for those two.

It is actually useable at 25600 and even 51200

As for 6) The APSC video is actually pretty good for 1080p and some say that for 50/60p it is better to use APSC than FF I think.

This is not the camera for everyone or even that many.
For me, it is wonderful......despite what many consider its flaws (things missing that I don't use or need with this camera are not flaws to me).

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

So how log do we have to wait for the full review of the A7 II? A year? Please. The reality is that you can wrap fish in old news, but it's good for little else. Why would I want to peruse a camera review that's a year old? Doesn't everyone already know this stuff? In the past, a large part of my camera purchasing strategy was based on DP Review's knowledge base . . . I'm getting a little skeptical about that approach now. Also, Looks like Sony is getting the short end of the stick. I'm sure that an uptick in sales, for a nearly obsolete camera, is just what their marketing folks were anticipating. Not.

9 upvotes

Amazing that there are now four A7 cameras and still only one large-aperture prime lens for this system.

1 upvote

There are already reviews in DPReview that call you out on this. Why say it?

1 upvote

Any full frame lens on the planet will work on the A7, it's amazing how DSLR fan boys are such BS artists.

4 upvotes

Call me out on what Beachrider? The fact that the only large aperture AF native lens for this system is the Zeiss 55 f/1.8? That is a fact.
And Joe, I am no fanboy, I love my A7 and 55 lens. And I love AF, MF is tedious, focus-peaking is rubbish and lens adapters work but make AF so slow it is ridiculous.
So what exactly is wrong with what I've said?

0 upvotes

Tall, there is a 35 mm f/2.8 that shows as well.

0 upvotes

The contests on this website call f/2.8 "large aperture". They show substantial info on both.

0 upvotes

I like the Exposure Attitude test on this. Instead of so many being the same size sensor, I would like to see one different such as replacing the 6D with a E-M1. It might be interesting to see.

I agree with the conclusion that pixel size may not matter as much as the engineering of pixel for that size of sensor.

My guess is that it would be more than a 2 stop difference that shows itself in the normal lab test because of it being engineered for a better light source. My goal is still to engineer the light so I don't have to shoot at 6400 no matter what camera I use.

Here is what I do know: It's better to not underexpose anytime. It's better to raise the ISO at shooting than to try and recover in post.

So what was the final DR? Why was it rated gold if the DR is less than it's still camera siblings?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

About Exposure latitude comparison with A7R, the A7R wins hands down when iso is low. but for example iso 1600 + 2 stop or iso 3200 + 1 stop (much more common cases) the A7S looks better to me

0 upvotes

A7s mkII will be hear before DPR gets there fingers out and review the A7 mkII, why so long to do a review? friend has had his from its launch and the video is mind blowing.

1 upvote

A year later...maybe there is hope for the Sony A77II SLT review

19 upvotes

So a7s was overhyped, high-ISO-video-only camera? That's a bit unexpected.

Personally I prefer 12-16MP and want a nikon (or fuji) FF body with 8fps shooting and fast AF.

2 upvotes

12-16 lacks the extra detail and doesn't give much option for cropping in post. Even the 24mp is much better.

0 upvotes

Still I am concern about ISO in that A7s that is behind competition of Nikon D750 though. So its a bit of disappointment that they are indeed behind with it. Nikon D750 seems to be better option for still photography while A7s is best for videography but if you want higher resolution probably best bet is Panasonic GH4.

0 upvotes

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Nikon-D810-versus-Sony-A7S___975_963_949 nikons are better @ 100-400, but after 400 ISO they're all pretty much the same. @ ISO 6400 and 12800 A7s is a clear winner

0 upvotes

Wasn't this camera released more than a year ago?

When is the Nokia N95 camera review coming up? :)

4 upvotes

Ergonomics means something, for even nothing is something. Its also the reason I grab my a7s over my d800 when I go cruising in my vette.

1 upvote

I am a Unit photographer in the film industry and this camera is a game changer for me. It is totally silent, which enables me to discard my blimps. Usually around hour 8-9 I have a burning between my shoulder blades from my 21 pound Nikon in a blimp, and by hour 12 forward it is agonizing. With my 2 Sony7s I can get out of bed the next morning without any pain..

It is also less intimidating to my actors than the huge Nikon DSLR in a blimp.

by using the tip out screen I can get shots without climbing a ladder, I can shoot around a corner if I need to be more discrete.
I find that the low light capabilities are much more than my D4S Nikon offers.
I love this camera and I never shoot video, so I can not comment on that aspect.

I have large hands and found I needed the power grip for balance as well as the extra battery power.

Comment edited 47 seconds after posting

17 upvotes

I hear you. I used to be a set photographer in Italy in the 80's and early 90's and used to build my own Blimps. The A7s would have been heaven on earth for this work

0 upvotes

It is not a total game change for film stills photographers. One the camera maybe silent but the lenses are not. That is what the lens tubes are for on the Blimp. Two the silent shutter cannot be used for everything either. It is not good for subjects that are moving because of rolling shutter artefacts. Hence why most film stills photographers will not touch them.

1 upvote

My MF lenses are plenty quiet enough.

0 upvotes

Ergonomics means nothing, when compared to performance. People will put up with some real horrors. A sharp-edged machined aluminum cube would sell if you could have resolution like a medium format 80mp Phase camera and the noise control of this Sony 12mp.

2 upvotes

> A sharp-edged machined aluminum cube would sell

Maybe. But why does it have to be a sharp-edged cube?

I for one am really looking forward a7s MkII with a more sane placement of the shutter button...

1 upvote

As a counterpoint to the popular opinion out there on the a7 II thus far: after shooting with the a7 II this weekend, I really appreciated picking up an a7 at work today. And it was due to ergonomics. We'll tell you why in our full a7 II review. :)

4 upvotes

Totally disagree. I think ergonomics are fundamental. Just about any digital camera produces great pictures and has loads of features now. For me, comfort and weight are crucial. I bought a D750 as it was the first Nikon I had ever held that was comfortable and for a DSLR it is relatively small and lightweight yet offers the advantages of lightening quick AF. I took back a Fuji X-T1 as it was not comfortable - the shutter button is too far back on the top of the body, like on the A7...

3 upvotes

So are you going to upgrade the ergonomics score for the A7 now :D

1 upvote

Give me that cube! Now!

0 upvotes

But then you'll see DIY mods to turn it into a half-normal camera.

0 upvotes

Hey Rishi, can you let me know when next year to expect the A7II review? ;-)

1 upvote

Side issue; the sanest place for a shutter button is on the front and not the top of a camera, close to the lens. For vibration sake.

0 upvotes

Really enjoy taking pictures with the a7S. It's just like a mini Nikon D4S but with less weight/size, worse AF performance and way less fps in AF-C mode at a cheaper price point to compensate for all of that. I still see the D4S and 1DX as the best photography tools but the a7S is the best daily use camera when best overall performance isn't required.

12 upvotes

Often times, there is a readily-available point of light in a dark scene on which to focus a camera that can't on extended subjects in such a scene (like a face). Obviously, in the studio scene with the face used, that light source was not available. The proverbial "Kubrick" candle-lit dinner scene would be a good example where he had to use a crazy 0.70 focal ratio lens to film with.

http://cdn.studiodaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/1920_barry-lyndon.jpg

0 upvotes

Hello all, Sweet camera.
Cheers.

1 upvote

Thanks for the review!!! Wonderful & descriptive review.

The low light/high ISO performance is stunning. With my 35mm cron, it is dimunitive in size but a monster in performance.
Though many say that it works better than A7R and A7II with voigtlander wideangle lenses, when I tried with my 21mm color skopar, it was performing ordinary. With the 35mm cron, the performance is exemplary. Absolutely stunning IQ.

1 upvote

There are so many A 7's that I lost track of the camera being reviewed.

3 upvotes

Canon's selling nearly as many variants of the 5D at the moment and there's frankly more variation in the sony A7 line than the Canon 5D line...

24 upvotes

there are only 3 variants in the first generation, and one version thus far in the second gen..if you can't keep track of that then you may have a missing toe or finger and not even realize it

16 upvotes

They couldn't implement IBIS (in A7II) in one of 3 models before?! Before, is somwhere 12 months before.
They announced 4 models in 1 year span. With all the respect, it looks like deliberately money sucking.

1 upvote

Complaints about Sony nomenclature always fascinate me.

Somehow, people get lost in their 4 mounts, even though I think it's as clear as it gets: FF/crop for DSLRs + FF/crop for mirrorless. AND crop lenses are full compatible with FF mounts, with automatic detection and framing.

Say, Canon has "only" three mounts, but why? Because they do not have mirrorless FF yet. Plus their crop lenses are not compatible with FF, at all. And no-one is complaining. Go figure...

0 upvotes

It was a long time ago longer now than it seems that Sony made DSLR's

0 upvotes

@Vadim whilst I agree with you ...
Sony only have two mounts. On top of each mount there is FF or cropped lenses.
As you say a differentiator from Canon is that you can use the cropped lenses on an FF body. That is valid for both mounts.

But I've seen alot of Canon users complaining about Sony tempo when releasing bodies. Maybe the Canon tempo is a better fit for them?

0 upvotes

Can you use a Canon crop lens on a Canon FF body
that's news for me

0 upvotes

@Eleson

> That is valid for both mounts.

Not true for Canon, unfortunately. You cannot use EF-S lens with EF-mount (FF) camera.

0 upvotes

Ooops!!
I was really unclear! I referred to the two Sony mounts, i.e. e and a mount. I also meant the a differentiator beween the two Sony mounts, and the Canon mounts, is that the Sony mounts allow for reuse of APS-C lenses on FF bodies.

It is a bit hilarious that Canon is the only brand not allowing this, and still there is so much talk about "buying into a system".
- No you don't.

0 upvotes

The real life samples show much more than Studio comparison. Clearly the Pentax 645Z showing more details, but the real life shots by Sony 7s are different story than just looking at pictures under microscope. That what camera for, a real life photos.

5 upvotes

But real-life photos are the worst kind, when it comes to tasking a camera, not studio shots. Try shooting at night and controlling everything that comes into play in scenes with lit and dark areas.

0 upvotes

my dream camera, but a bit to expensive for me :3

2 upvotes

If you haven't used it, how can you know its your dream camera? Just a thought to help you digest its price :).

1 upvote

@cgarrard I do a lot of video with my sony a6000, the a7s is in another league, thats why its my dream camera.

0 upvotes

One of the advantages it seems of using the A7s is in the use of legacy lenses, most notably in short back focus non retro-focus lenses such as M-mount wide-angles. Even against other A7 (A7,A7r, A7II) cameras there appears to be less colour shift and smearing in the A7s.

5 upvotes

Ergonomics and handling, JPEG image quality, performance are all at around 65% mark - serious inadequacies [ref. graphic]. All this reflects very badly on the whole of Alpha 7 series. Why would Sony release Alpha 7S - supposedly a video film maker's version - with such short-comings priced at $2500 that cannot take decent JPEGs?

3 upvotes

Who's shooting on a full frame camera for the JPEGs? I don't doubt people do it, but it seems like a small subset of possible users.

Realistically, this thing was much more relevant immediately after it was released. By now, people are waiting for the glut of cams with 4K onboard recording (which may take longer than we expected), and better slomo options. And still shooters have plenty of better options than this.

5 upvotes

Speaking as someone who has used small-bodied interchangeable lens cameras since their inception with m4/3rds, you will never have the shooting comfort of a full-sized DSLR. You save the weight, but you gain the pain!!

0 upvotes

@ Splendic

Not at ISO 25600 they don't!
I shoot jpegs with this camera as when shooting a festival or even some gigs, I will end up with up with hundreds of photos and I hate post processing.
The A7s Jpegs are good enough for me to give to a band, festival organisers or Newspaper at any ISO up to 51200.
The 12mp size also means I don't have to resize to email any as well....I just pick the ones I want and send as taken.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

3 upvotes

Splendic,
My friend is photo jurnalist. He shoot only JPG on his ff.

2 upvotes

But seriously, a photojournalist isn't a pro ...

</end sarcasm>

0 upvotes

So many cons to get a gold award. Awards are jokes theses days.

15 upvotes

So is your editing.

12 upvotes

It's a matter of balance. The gold award was given likely because though the camera came up short in some areas, it so excelled at others the balance shifts to gold.

17 upvotes

Total comments: 443

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