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Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review

February 2015 | By Richard Butler, Barney Britton

Preview based on pre-production Canon EOS 5D S & SR

Canon has added to its EOS 5D range with the launch of two 50MP cameras, the 5DS and the 5DS R. Both cameras are high-resolution full frame models, primarily aimed at stills photographers. The only difference between the models is that the 'S' has an optical low-pass filter, while the 'S R' has a self-cancelling filter (the same relationship as Nikon's D800 and D800E models shared).

The two cameras will exist alongside the EOD 5D Mark III, acting as dedicated high-resolution cameras primarily intended for studio, landscape and wedding shoots, rather than the all-round capability offered by the existing model. The Mark III still trumps the S and S R in terms of maximum ISO and continuous shooting speed.

Slightly unusually for Canon, both models have been announced a long way ahead of their June 2015 availability date, so we wouldn't be surprised if some of these details changed between now and then.

Canon EOS 5DS / SR key features

50MP CMOS sensor
5fps continuous shooting
ISO 100-6400 (Extends to 12,800)
61-point AF module with input from 150k pixel metering sensor
Dual Digic 6 processors
3.0" 1.04m dot LCD
CF & SD slots (UHS-I compatible)
1080/30p video
M-Raw and S-Raw down-sampled formats
30MP APS-H crop and 19.6MP APS-C crop modes
USB 3.0 interface

Most of the big new features on the high-res 5Ds are about ensuring you're able to get the best of the cameras' extra resolution. Our experiences with the Nikon D8X0 series cameras has shown us that simply having a high resolution sensor isn't enough: to take full advantage of it you need to really obsess about stability.

To this end, Canon has reinforced the tripod socket and surrounding area to allow stable engagement with a tripod. It has also used a more controllable, motorized mirror mechanism, like the one in the EOS 7D II, that allows a deceleration step before the mirror hits its upper position - reducing mirror slap.

The third change a revised mirror lock-up mode that allows you to specify an automatic delay between the mirror being raised and the shutter opening to start the exposure. It allows the user to choose the shortest possible delay that has allowed mirror vibration to subside: maximizing sharpness while minimizing the loss of responsiveness.

Although the S and the SR can both shoot movies with the same choice of frame rates and compression as the 5D III, they don't offer clean HDMI output or headphone sockets. The message is pretty clear - if video is a major concern, these aren't the cameras for you.

	Canon EOS 5DS	Canon EOS 5DS R	Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Pixel count	50.2MP	50.2MP	22.1MP
Processor	Digic 6	Digic 6	Digic 5+
Maximum ISO	ISO 6400 (12,800 ext)	ISO 6400 (12,800 ext)	ISO 25,600 (102,400 ext)
Maximum ISO	ISO 6400 (12,800 ext)	ISO 6400 (12,800 ext)	ISO 25,600 (102,400 ext)
Maximum frame rate	5fps	5fps	6fps
Autofocus	61 point, of which 41 are cross type and 5 are double-cross type	61 point, of which 41 are cross type and 5 are double-cross type	61 point, of which 41 are cross type and 5 are double-cross type
Metering sensor	150k pixels (RGB+IR)	150k pixels (RGB+IR)	63 segment (RG/GB)
Optical low-pass (anti-aliasing) filter?	Yes	Self-cancelling	Yes
Uncompressed HDMI output	No	No	Yes
Headphone jack?	No	No	Yes
USB connection	USB 3.0	USB 3.0	USB 2.0

A series of features in the EOS 5DS and S R are ones we first saw in the EOS 7D Mark II. This includes the flicker detection function that warns you of lighting flicker and can synchronize the camera's continuous shooting so that it only fires at the brightest moments to ensure consistent exposure (rather than the constant variation you can otherwise get in such situations).

Two other 7D II features to make an appearance in 5D camera for the first time are the built-in intervalometer function that can be used to shoot time lapse sequences. And, as a first for Canon, these can then be combined in-camera to create a 1080/24p time-lapse movie.

Canon EOS 5DS / SR overview video

If you're new to digital photography you may wish to read the Digital Photography Glossary before diving into this article (it may help you understand some of the terms used).

Conclusion / Recommendation / Ratings are based on the opinion of the reviewer, you should read the ENTIRE review before coming to your own conclusions.

We recommend to make the most of this review you should be able to see the difference (at least) between X,Y and Z and ideally A,B and C.

Gear in this story


Canon EOS 5DS	Canon EOS 5DS R
7 I own it 83 I want it 21 I had it Discuss in the forums	6 I own it 155 I want it 17 I had it Discuss in the forums

Comments

Total comments: 2258

As a big fan of Sony, Fuji and Leica, I really like this camera.
Many people would like more pixels and if they are delivered at sufficient quality this camera will be very useful.
Canon have stated that they will be going for more specialized models in the future so expect a raft of different types of 5D's for different purposes.

0 upvotes

My Canon 6D is the last camera body I will buy from Canon. It sits on a shelf, while I enjoy myself, using a Sony Alpha MII--a camera that does everything well and is packed with useful features. I am as happy with Sony as I am disappointed in Canon!

Now Canon thinks it can sell us with twice as many pixels! Isn't that a 2X enlargement? If I want to make really big prints, my Hasselblad 500 C/M is a good bet. 4x5 and 5x7 also work very well, for any pro gig--while Canon does not. Hasta La Vista, baby!

0 upvotes

different tools for different people baby. Happy to see you found what you need. Now would you mind to hang out in Sony forum would you?

1 upvote

Canon 5DS has no electronic front curtain shutter? Why? That would improve camera's stability more than anything.

0 upvotes

Question:
How many megapixels is too many? I mean, if there was a 1000 MP camera, who would want it? Who would need it? For the type of photography you do, if there was no limit, how many MP would you want/need, and why?

1 upvote

The answer is - any more than the number of MP in your current or favorite camera! There was a time when 8 was enough, then it went to 16 and now that is perfect for many and so it goes on. You can always select modes that give less MP but it's more difficult to add MP so why suggest a limit.

0 upvotes

indeed.
I am waiting for 1 billion black silicon sensors
The end of the zoom lens ????

0 upvotes

It's interesting that in the comparison chart of these new cameras versus the 5D MK 3, the 50MP versus the 22MP is not given a green color as an advantage indication. After all, the entire point of these two new cameras is the higher resolution. If dpreview doesn't consider that extra resolution worth an advantage indication then one has to assume that dpreview views these two new cameras as pointless.

6 upvotes

Extra advantage would be LESS pixels, e.g. very advantgeous are 12 mpix only on FF sensor of the Sony A7s. Then ISO can reach up to 400.000.

0 upvotes

They did an amazing job on the sensor. The dynamic range equals the much bigger pixels of the 5D III. This would make a fantastic 22mp asp-c dslr. Of course that would cut into FF sales, so it won't happen soon.

0 upvotes

Of course, it does come all the way from Japan. What are the chances of it's survival? Will it be packed in foam in a sturdy box. It should come in moulded foam, in a box 10 cm bigger all around than is the camera Post Office SD regs in UK) More than a depth of 10cm foam all the way around, and the same for every lens, because I have had to return so many dud machines- some very expensive, and lenses as THEY do NOT know how to design a safe, weatherproof shockresistant container for cameras and lenses.So can they design cameras?

In-transit shock shortens circuit and mechanical life. WE need 5 year warranties on all lens and bodies NOW. They are often the price of a family car, and cars that get put through so much more get 5 and 7 year warranties.

Look at a uTube unboxing video for, say, a new FZ1000 4K Panasonic and you can clearly see that the front element of the lens unit is hard up against the outside of their flimsy unpadded box, and this is typical of how we are being treated

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

From what I have seen so far, the images are quite remarkable.
But I think I may plump for an EOS 7D MK II as a second body, to my more than
sharp enough EOS 5D MKIII. ( Mighty impressed with Andy Rouse's results!)
Also, the images from my Bargain Basement priced little EOS M, still bring a smile to my face, when downloaded onto my Lightroom 5.
If you are a Pro photographer, with demanding, pixel counting customers, then obviously, the new 5Ds or 5DsR is the way to go but for us ordinary, fun photographers, the more ordinary fare, is more than good enough.

0 upvotes

These comments are so depressing. Doesn't anyone just go out and shoot with whatever they have? An old, sluggish, 6Mp DSLR, with a "mere" 10 stops of dynamic range and less-than-instant AF will, when used well, produce better images that most of the D800 examples I have seen on equipment review sites.

The problem for camera manufacturers is that for a few years now most digicams have been good enough for most purposes. So how are they to sell more equipment? Apparently by raising megapixel counts way beyond what most people need or can use, and by improving features that are already better than almost anyone needs.

But hey, I am not complaining. I expect to be able pick up some traded-in "obsolete" cameras that are still marvellous ... and at bargain-basement prices.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 48 seconds after posting

6 upvotes

Truth about Canon dev. cameras... et the end is 50MP...
http://youtu.be/sJBq0z2Vmu4

0 upvotes

You say that 6mp @ 10EV produce "better" than 36mp @ 15EV? Dear friend you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm not in the equipment > photographer idea but I strongly believe that for the same photographer, equipment with better capabilities produces better quality in results.

4 upvotes

I agree. Unless you are Peter Lik and need all the detail you can get (very large high quality prints, using a 80 MP sensor), 16-24 MP is more than enough. You can still crop (if necessary) and print fairly large prints. It seems like the best test is, if you are not sure wether or not you need 36-50 MP, then that means you probably don't need it.

0 upvotes

With that philosophy then we should all be still using our old 1MP cameras, I mean why not - who actually needs more than 1MP

2 upvotes

How many pixels is enough? I find myself downsizing a lot of images from 24Mp because I have no need of larger. I was looking at a very nice image from my little Oly EPL1 the other day and concluded that I would never print anywhere near the full size image, ever, even from 12Mp. That said, I'm sure the new Canon will be a fine camera and hope whoever buys one enjoys it!

2 upvotes

I have L lenses. Will they be sharper? I love all of them. Will they be less sharp? Cannot spend more on glass. Don't have the money for a medium format or a Leica. Is this the camera of my present dreams?

0 upvotes

Indeed .... all of your images with any of your lenses will be sharper

4 upvotes

The good ones, in particular primes, should deliver excellent results. Some older zooms may look a bit soft on such a high res camera when you start pixel peeping.

The challenge will be a highly precise AF phase detection system for OV shooting, but IF one of the two big DLSR manufacturers left in this world can deliver that, it's Canon.

1 upvote

It won't make ANY lens sharper. Delivering more resolution does not mean crappy soft lenses suddenly get sharper. In fact in the edges and corners at 100% you will see more than ever the flaws of those lenses. Just check the Canon supplied image of the library using the 17mm TSE for the truth about its edge and corner performance.

1 upvote

"At 100%" is not particularly relevant for many people though - even though many (including yourself it would seem) don't understand this. At normalised image output sizes, you'll NEVER be worse off, but usually better off.

Pixel peeping is not the best way to judge FINAL IMAGES unless you view your final images at 1:1 magnification. And there would be VERY FEW who would do this with a 50MP image!

Those that NEED to and do will use the best glass possible.
The rest will almost always benefit from the increased resolution, even if their glass not the very best quality (providing their technique is capable).

0 upvotes

3699$ or 3999 euros! Should've been the opposite. 1 eur = 1,13$

2 upvotes

No it's completely right. Because there will be a lot more units sold in USA than in all of EU. In addition, import taxes in EU are significantly higher than USA.

0 upvotes

Euro price includes taxes (20% or so). US price is before tax

0 upvotes

There no longer is any import tax for digital cameras in the EU

However, prices for Europe include VAT which is higher than in the states, whereas the US price is without sales tax.

0 upvotes

Why do American companies post their prices without VAT? I thought the prices were always with taxes.

0 upvotes

As far as I know there is no VAT included in their prices because VAT does not exist in USA.

There might not be import taxes for digicams but VAT still has to be paid on import. Due to protection of the European market where VAT is common in all EU countries.

0 upvotes

There is no VAT, but there is local sales tax; mine is 7%. However, if you buy mailorder from a non-national vendor in another state, there is no sales tax.

0 upvotes

As someone deeply invested in Canon, I eagerly awaited this new camera(s). However, my heart skipped a beat when I heard Canon developed the 50MP sensor in-house. Like many photographers and industry pundits, I assumed Canon would utilize Sony sensor technology in these new cameras to close the growing quality gap between their sensors and those offered by Sony (and consequently Nikon).

Yes, Canon was first to announce this milestone, but this is not territory they will own for long, nor will they be a quality sensor leader at this level. It seems they are applying their 20.2MP 7D II camera sensor to a FF format (which has 2.63 times the surface area of the APS-C) to reach this 50MP level. Sony could similarly apply that same technique to their outstanding a6000 24.3MP APS-C sensor to yield a 55MP camera that will have superior image quality to Canon’s sensor at an even higher resolution. I’d only be surprised if Sony/Nikon DIDN’T announce this soon.

What are you thinking Canon?

0 upvotes

It is just an assumption of many that this is 7DII sensor sized up. Odds are that it is not. Or not entirely. I.e. it does not have dual pic and it is not optimized for high iso performance but rather low iso performance, so it is has opposite of the 7DII objective. As much as many here think that Canon engineers are idiots, it does not take much to see that per pixel a 5DIII or a 1DX does a much better job in studio than a 7DII, so this camera would be a total nonsense if it had the same per pixel performance as the 7DII at base iso. Possible, but unlikely. I would wait that the camera gets reviewed before pronounce anything. I do not hold my breath, but I do have a good feeling about this.
Do not forget Canon used to make the best CMOS at some point.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

I'd like to add that the 7DII has a very good sensor, much better than previous canon sensors catching up with Sony. Do not forget that this sensors has twice as many pic because of dual pic technology. It Canon engineers managed to make a single pic tech sensor with a slightly better base iso performance this camera is a winner.

Comment edited 15 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

I wonder if we will be able to exploit this resolution for anything.

The problem is that all lenses have a maximum resolution they can provide. Putting a 50 mpix camera behind a lens with lower resolution will give you pictures with the resolution of the lens - at most!

Looking at DXO Mark website I don't see any lenses with a resolution supporting the new Canon cameras. Therefore, it would be a complete waste to buy these cameras. Do I misunderstand something?

Regards BBC

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

I use a 1DX a 5DIII and 7DII. The 7DII is basically a 5DS crop. If there was no purpose in making denser pixel sensors a crop sensors should not be more that 10-12MP. DXO is cool but I find my own field experience is even cooler ;-)

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

One very important thing to realize is that you can't even pre-order these cameras until April 30th and they won't ship until June. Canon showed us cameras that they aren't even close to finishing yet.

4 months from now is a long time in terms of camera development. It really sounds like they realized that they wouldn't be the first to market with this high of a megapixel camera so they just decided to announce it first.

Other manufactures know that announcing unfinished cameras isn't much better than announcing vaporware.

3 upvotes

Announcing unfinished cameras is fairly standard in the photo business. It's releasing unfinished cameras that is the real problem.

11 upvotes

and yet apparently '7' people have it and 21 'had it' - jeeze... must be lots of preproduction models floating around - cue sarcasm font

4 upvotes

It's possible they won't ship before the announced date. And they don't control the dates of CP+ which may have forced their hand. But the lens is already shipping, and yesterday I saw an EOS M3 on eBay (in Japan, of course.) Unlike the other big guy, Canon rarely sells from an empty wagon.

The other thing they rarely do is deliver incredibly small quantities along with lengthy backorders. If Canon says it's in short supply and 5 per dealer, and you order 10, surprise, you get 10.

0 upvotes

And even if it does not change? I mean for tech specs list it looks pretty official, from sensor performance we no virtually nothing about how good it is as it stands now.

0 upvotes

i want one ! Which is the best for me I ask myself. Are there any sample files that I could download and compare the two on my Canon 44" wide printer?
Just saying (:-)

0 upvotes

Take the one with cancelled anti-aliasing filter when you have the extra dollars and are not mainly photographing repeating patterns/textures like textiles etc. In general photography, 99.9% of the time, moire is not an issue.

0 upvotes

I'd get one WITH an AA filter. After a little sharpening in post you barely miss any real details and you avoid false details/aliasing.

2 upvotes

This is the strangest thing about Japanese camera marketing. Officially, they give you four to six quite mediocre predicable standard sample shots, and all fans are vacuum cleaning the net to find some more. Why not give us 100 or 500 really nice shots from different areas to enjoy, test print and comment? Don’t they believe in their own products? And it’s virtually free compared to all other marketing efforts. These shots should be made with their best lenses because we want to know what is POSSIBLE to achieve, not what happens when an enthusiast amateur uses the kit lens the first time.

1 upvote

"but at least it isn't a step backwards." That's a gold award right there. But maybe these super high mp cameras really are a step backwards? In practical terms, you pay a premium. In exchange, you need to worry more about camera vibration, possible moire and lenses that were fantastic may no longer be, or even require upgrading. And don't forget to spend more computer power and bigger HDs.

An awful lot people buy and use cameras primarily for fun (despite what they say.) And this doesn't sound like that much fun.

0 upvotes

Lenses that are fantastic, will sure still be good! Mediocre lenses less..

Since 2005 camera resolution has gone up 5x and HD space approx 10x.
When you have 8GB RAM installed in your computer, you will be fine! If you have 4GB RAM or less installed in your computer, it is an outdated model or entry level pc anyway and you probably need to update..

1 upvote

A big concern of mine. Will the L lenses be sharper?

0 upvotes

Duckshots... you got to be specific on which L lens. Not all L lens are top notch.

0 upvotes

Amazing!! Who would have thought that the announcement of a 50 mpx FF Canon would touch of so much apoplexy. Judging from the comments below hospital emergency rooms must be overflowing with heart attack and high blood pressure victims. All caused by the announcement of a new Canon camera. Amazing!!

4 upvotes

I expected a swivel screen, built-in 4g LTE, free data plan, and a Facebook app so I can post selfies....

7 upvotes

agree!

0 upvotes

I am really impressed by the number of fanboys in this site. Canon, Nikon and Sony are top manufacturers of DSLR, every one with their pros and cons. it would be fool to not recognize this aspect. Canon has been providing top-level AF modules, higher FPS, AF at -3EV, top-level lens and yet whenever canon makes a new release, everyone has this innate need to complain on the only evident canon weakness of the limited DR as this is the primary aspect when taking a picture. Nikon on the other side has provided huge improvements in providing latest technology on their bodies and everybody was complaining about building quality issue (oil for D600 and AF for the d800). Imho i find these people quite ridiculous, because you can get good pics with almost any gear around if you know how to use it. If you don t know how to use it then DR is not your primary issue.

9 upvotes

Agree 100%. Complaints about DR but nothing that substantiates their needs.

2 upvotes

A lot of fans read DP and never comment. And when commenting, you're supposed to whine, aren't you?

0 upvotes

Digging the 1.3 & 1.6 crop features, something Ive always wished canon would do. Don't really care about the 50mp jump IMHO.

But looking on the bright side..this makes the 5d mkII and even the mkIII used prices go down.(sitting back waiting for this to happen...wont be too long)

0 upvotes

Plastic bodies for these cameras?

0 upvotes

Another camera, Why can't Canon change the design of the camera, They all look outdated, and now I need another camera so I can do landscapes and high definition. This is getting ridiculous. I remember when I only had to worry about was the exposure and my composition, now I have to worry about finding the manual before I take the shot to make sure that I have all my setting correct and the hell with the photograph, let's make sure that I have my 50 megapixels and my adjustable mirror bounce whatever and my $3,000 price range and the need for additional lenses because my $2,000.00 lens doesn't have the corner sharpness required for my 50 megapixels. The heck with all this.. I am going back to film and my Nikon F.

2 upvotes

Let me understand, you complain that the design is outdated arguing that it should go 20 years back? I think I am missing your point or you are confusing me.
On a general note I would like to applaud Canon like no other brands for incremental variations in camera bodies keeping what was good from previous generations and building on it. My 5DIII, 7DII are pretty much identical, and the core functionalities are the same as my 20 years old Eos A2E. Yes, you need a manual for but not really for every iteration! It is after all a complex instrument if you want to use its full potentials.

0 upvotes

The camera sounds interesting. I suspect that the common shooting will be done in APSH 1.3 crop mode giving a 30MP image. Use of 51mp will be used "where appropriate".

I will be curious to see of the R version will deliver better results with current Canon lenses. Of course, all current Canon lenses will produce "sharper images" with the 51MP sensor on the R or S versions.

0 upvotes

Or shoot in MRAW for smaller files but another interesting thing about shooting in crop mode is the AF points fill more of the frame. The resolution will also be handy for Macro photography use. It used to be beneficial to use a crop sensor to get in a little closer but not so much anymore...

2 upvotes

Yes but you can't shoot crop mode in Raw mode.
Jpegs only as far as I know. This limits the idea a fair bit.
You can shoot M raw but you get the whole frame which means soft corners mostly.
I'd want 1.3x mode for raws with the masking in the viewfinder for shooting - not cropping afterwards with "guess" framing during shooting.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I am disappointed that this does not go up to ISO 1,235,800, what the hell is wrong with Canon? What were they thinking? I can only imagine that they feel that a medium-format equivalent camera is best suited to low ISO and a tripod rather than handheld... When was the last time you saw someone with a Hasselblad or Leaf running around the streets doing handheld grabs in low light? Sorry, I forgot, Canon are the devil incarnate and will be out of business next week.

2 upvotes

I thought you were dead.

1 upvote

@SnakePlissken.... with CCD sensors in the past, people didn't shoot MF cameras in low light hand held because you practically couldn't. Today you can shoot an early morning beach bridal session on MF CMOS sensor (newer Pentax and Hasselblad cameras) using only the sunrise as fill handheld at 800, 1600, or even 3200 iso. Just shooting at 400-800 iso on a CCD looks like a dog and that's what most MF shooters are using still as of this date.

What will be interesting is how much more detail can be realized using a 55 or 85 Zeiss Otus lens compared to MF. The Otus on Nikon seems to be a hard hitting contender (winner) to MF in the detail department and I'm eager to see reviews on how well they perform on this new Canon.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

We want Mirror-less, Canon !

4 upvotes

Speak for yourself ...

11 upvotes

use live view function

5 upvotes

Vignes, Mirror-Less, not Use-Less Mirror. Not Hidden-Mirror!

0 upvotes

The problem with mirrorless is there is no good Fast Full frame zooms. Nothing equivalent to a 24-70 f/2.8 or 70-200 f/2.8. It would be way too big and swallow up the body as well as too heavy and would be unbalanced. I know Micro 4/3 and APC has constant 2.8 zooms but don't kid yourself, the dof is not the same.

1 upvote

En Trance what's the difference. both will do on sensor AF and you can adjust the setting to see real time feedback on the picture. Video works the same. Hidden/no mirror is the same. the plus point with the hidden-mirror/DSLR is you can use the OVF if you chose to but lose LV. with mirror-less you'll have an EVF option. but other than this what's the difference btw hidden/locked up mirror vs. mirror-less?

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

The difference is, that the state of the art has progressed beyond the mirror and mechanism. You need to incorporate technology advances instead of putting your head in the sand because your favorite manufacturer is too stupid to move on!

0 upvotes

Entrance... you still didn't answer my question. The fact remains the same. People think that mirror less work differently from DSLR with LV but it's not. A DSLR with LV gives you best of both worlds – OVF/SLR and mirror less with on sensor AF. It’s slow because the on sensor AF is based on contrast detect. The only thing Canon needs to do is use their EOS-M3 sensor architecture which has on sensor phase and contrast detect AF into their 750/760 and you have a faster LV AF utilising EF/EFS lens. They are actually more complete than most people think. I won’t be surprise that their next/future DSLR would be a hybrid system with hybrid OVF/EVF. Another issue is the size argument for MILC no longer stands, have you seen the current pro MILC like NX1… tell you what it’s not small and it looks like a DSLR with a LCD on the top. It’s clear that DSLR ergo is the defacto standard for pro user.

0 upvotes

Vignes. OK, you are right. If Canon refuses to change then that is good enough for you. 12 FPS!

Comment edited 60 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Heavy lens + heavy camera = heavy combo. Heavy lens + lightweight camera = less heavy combo. Good for everything but not in the exposure moment.

0 upvotes

En trance... you raised about mirror-less I'm responding on that subject. A lot of people who jumped on mirror less band wagon don't know that modern day DSLR has this feature. How is Canon refusing to change when majority of people opting for ILC wants DSLR. Look at the market share. They give the M3 for those small market. surprise... surprise the EOS M did well in Japan and Asian countries. Canon is a leader in ILC and they play a waiting game to see what's panning out in the MILC world. Can't blame them because there is too many formats/mount like m43, APS-C, FF, Nikon 1 etc. Also design like EVF/no EVF, touchscreen, range finder/DSLR look etc. As you can see the DSLR design is preferred for the pro ones e.g. GH4, EM1, NX1, A7. this are not tiny cameras. I have a feeling the actual pro MILC will look like 5D or 1D in the future.

0 upvotes

They are in the tank for Canon. The fact that they are still flapping a mirror around is not the reason for Canon Market Share. Let's not get Silly!

0 upvotes

what's silly and what's not? if you don't like to have a flapping mirror in your camera. it's your choice. But market dictates what it's wants more. Canon sells more ILC and it's DSLR with flapping mirrors. trying proofing otherwise.

0 upvotes

Vignes, where do we start?

1. Vibration - I guess Canon have admitted this
2. Continuous, Uninterrupted, "Servo" AF
3. Nearly all settings updated and readable in EVF
4. Speed, try 12 FPS!

Nothing? I don't need to go backwards on any of the above.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I find it so funny that Canikon are still using the '50s flappy mirror thingy in their cameras! Lol!

2 upvotes

Well, given that you find it funny to repeat stupid things other people have said I reckon you find almost anything amusing.

12 upvotes

funny we are still using wheels for getting around. that it about 100 time longer that our use of a flappy mirror!

10 upvotes

My imagination would create a new totally solid state shutter with infinite life and no moving parts. Some marriage of Semi-Conductance and Translucent Technology. I hope Sony has beat me to it. This is the kind of thought that we would expect from Canon. Not Goon Marketing Stunts and Low-Slap-Mirror-Braking Mechanisms.

1 upvote

I thought the Sony's Translucent Mirror in SLT is D.O.A.? It takes 1 EV light out and still does not get enough light for proper AF. It is either Mirrorless or DSLR, not something in between.

The future is Mirrorless, with EF and FX lenses ;-)

0 upvotes

I guess I don't really know what it means to "take light" from a digital signal. If a reading is 1.342, then it is 1.342. Or if it is 70% of 1.342, then 70%x1.342/70% is 1.342. I guess I trust Sony to correct for losses if they exist.

0 upvotes

@Jylppy - FYI, Modern DSLTs include Exposure Compensation, incase you are losing sleep over 1EV. I shoot Manual Mode nearly always and have never used Compensation. When shooting in Aperture priority, Shutter priority, or any of the additional shooting modes, Exposure is adjusted automatically.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

I mean, that argument is like looking at the mirror image and saying, "They Got It Backwards". Just cool your pants bottoms off. I think that multiplication is not a lost science.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

@Trace,

The 1 EV light never reaches the image sensor so it does not get into the "digital domain". Of course the missing light will be compensated in post-sensor gain, but that will cause extra noise similar to doubling your ISO setting. For me that extra noise matters - regardless of the camera model.

SLT also does its AF with that "missing 1EV" of light (i.e. the "missing 1EV" is directed to the AF sensor) so I assume it it getting far less light to the AF sensor vs. traditional DSLR design. Therefore traditional DSLR should focus far better in low-light (assuming roughly equal tech levels).

Of course there benefits also in SLT design (no lag/vibration for mirror, faster FPS, better AF in video), but for photography it is odd design, IMHO.

0 upvotes

"IF" you know that 70% does not get to the sensor, then compensate for it in the design, digitally! I don't think it is very different from knowing the characteristic of incident light and compensating for it with White Balance adjustments. We don't sit there and cry about it, we trust the manufacture to compensate while we utilize the fine controls that he provides us.

0 upvotes

Sure you can do so, it just adds noise as I explained above. The exposure will be correct, but just more noisy compared to the same sensor on DSLR design.

And Sorry, I remembered the figures wrong. The fixed mirror takes 30% of the light for AF. DPReview says it equals 1/2EV. So the noise delta is the same as increasing ISO by 50% (e.g. from 1600 to 2400). For me it matters since not digital processing can remove that noise. But SLT design has it advantages (like continuous Phase Detection AF).

0 upvotes

Ah the old megapixel race has reemerged. Ya boo sucks to you Nikon with your paltry 36mp!

0 upvotes

This camera can't be any good because it (gasp!) has a mirror and (double gasp!) is made by Canon. :-)

2 upvotes

and *gasp* no swivel screen and no wifi!

1 upvote

... is there a PRINT button?

1 upvote

No Print Button, but it comes with a built in Dictaphone and Auto Fax. The Deluxe model comes with an additional 3.5" Floppy Drive for storing your last AF Point incase you intend to release the shutter any time soon!

1 upvote

In reference to the paragraph below from the article. Sony's SLTs and Mirrorless cameras don't need to delay because there is no moving mirror, and they use electronic first curtain shutter so the shutter doesn't move until it closes. All you have to do is use 2 sec delay or a remote release and any potential movement is eliminated.

"The option for shorter delays means you can choose the shortest delay required to mitigate the effects of mirror vibration, but that is no longer than is necessary. Sadly, a mechanical shutter is still used to initiate the exposure, and can potentially remain a source of shake. An electronic first curtain could've complemented Canon's new pre-selected delays perfectly, with the shutter press lifting up the mirror and shutter simultaneously, and the exposure initiated electronically after a short delay. We've been asking Nikon and Sony to introduce this feature for some time to reduce the impact of mirror / shutter shock on sharpness."

2 upvotes

People don't want to hear the truth. They want to hear that Canon's lens lineup can easily handle 50MP and the sensors handle noise beautifully at low ISO.

They don't want to see blurred corners and poor edges revealed in the 17mm & 24mm Tilt Shift lenses that was never apparent before. They don't want to hear about the noise in clear blue skies at ISO 200 and blotchy shadows that are worse than ever. Every image I've seen so far that's meant to demonstrate the incredible resolving power of the 5Ds has been utterly appalling, without hesitation. No fine detail at 100%. What is going on?

7 upvotes

To be fair sample images from Canon and the photographers they let have a test at have been terrible from any body from a technical standpoint.

They always look soft and waxy at best and misfocused or hand-shake blurred at worst.

I mean the 5D3, the 40D, the 1DX, the 1Ds3, etc. the samples pre-release all looked horrible.

Some of it is down to the ever more over DNR'ed waxworks jpg engine which uses strong DNR even at low ISO and the early shooters using nasty setting choices and the rest is down to who knows what.

I really don't know why they don't use settings to show things in the best light or let people who can't even hit focus or proper shutter speed show the bodies off first. Lowered expectations so nobody complains once in hand?? Makes people feel good that they get better results than Canon can and that makes them more prone to spend more?

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting

1 upvote

That said it sounds like it's yet another, old 500nm process sensor that will be a few stops worse than all the competition.

And they did the usual like not allowing more fps in crop mode, holding back trivial things like focus peaking, etc. etc. and yeah nobody wants the truth they just wanna cheer on the team regardless and so Canon probably will get away with an older sensor even for a landscape camera.

Granted some don't care about the DR at all, but the way they all but cheer it on and mock and trash anyone who might care.... just proves it's easy for a great power to lead people like sheep.

1 upvote

"Granted some don't care about the DR at all, but the way they all but cheer it on and mock and trash anyone who might care.... just proves it's easy for a great power to lead people like sheep."

Yes, unfortunately: mankind history!

Progress is so slow because status quo usually wins. I recall, it took 2 years for Nikon to acknowledge the D600 oil splatter design fiasco. Why 2 years? Because they are a Big Corporate that doesn't care about petty clients but corporate profits.

0 upvotes

"I recall, it took 2 years for Nikon to acknowledge the D600 oil splatter design fiasco." Interesting memory you have. The D600 was released in September 2012, and Nikon issued the first service advisory 5 months later. http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5236803625/nikon-issues-service-advisory-for-d600 Granted it wasn't yet what was needed, but they did acknowledge the problem.

0 upvotes

Ben, unfortunately that was the problem as they didn't acknowledge that it was a design flaw... 2 year of customer pain shipping cameras back and forth. Nikon showed corporate bullying at its best why ? because they are leaders

0 upvotes

I'm actually very excited for this camera.
My uncle is a camera collector so I know I will be getting my hands on this when it releases.

About the megapixel war. Everyone talk about it when a new camera with high megapixel releases. But...........come on...........would u not want this camera?Would you not like to take some amazing photos with it?
You know you want to sleep with it too! lol

Cheers

1 upvote

50MP isn't such a big deal. Doubles the resolution of a 7MP sensor? When did we get these? Wasn't the first 5D 11MP some 10 or 11 years ago?

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

50mp is a big deal when you are talking about the possibility of this camera replacing medium format digital. This will force canon to make sharper lens as well as third parties like Zeiss to make more Otus lens.
Otus lens are expensive but nothing compared to hasselblad glass

Not to mention since Canon has done something, Nikon will be motivated more than ever to do something back. Canon got its balls back with this camera. Easily the most talked about camera in a long time. There are already 2093 post and counting

6 upvotes

>Doubles the resolution of a 7MP sensor?

Actually it would be more like a 12.5 mpixel sensor, so quite a bit of resolution increase. You took the square root of 50, that is the wrong way to calculate the doubling of resolution. Better to divide by 4.

It is lower rez on a per square MM basis than the Nikon D7100, so I don't get the hoopla about too many pixels. I don't see it causing lens issues either.

0 upvotes

Hasselblad Glas - what is this ? You mean Zeiss

0 upvotes

What I meant was more expensive lens on your typical medium format camera plus lens. Not to mention typically slower

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Like the industry is waiting for a camera to define it! "THE" most popular image was, is, and always will be a semi-nude female so let's keep it real. If your camera is not superb for this subject, then it is a piece of trash!

2 upvotes

Spot on best comment ever on this subject ;-)

0 upvotes

Don't dare to let this industry giant start manufacturing specialty cameras! The photographer is the Master. He decides which tool he will utilize. You manufacturers better damned well build a tool for his every purpose. I seriously don't get the nerve of Canon, removing functional parts of Legacy Equipment. With Legacy, should come Loyalty. Put a better internal flash on my camera! Put better video on my camera! Give me higher ISO! Give me less noise! Yes, I want higher MP! Yes, I want greater DR! Yes, EVFs are here to stay, so give me two dimensional levelers like Sony, only make them better! Get rid of that stupid Mirror and join the 21st Century! Can we improve on 1/8000 Shutter - Thank you! No, I do not want or need GPS or WiFi on my camera, I have a cell phone! No I do not need or want a touch screen, hotsauce, or pickles! How about a spot light meter in my EVF? Can we have a direct trigger?

2 upvotes

There is nothing wrong with 12 FPS either!

0 upvotes

If you put the damned IS on the camera where it belongs, I wouldn't have to buy it on every lens that I use, but you know this, so I ask you, Who's team are you on?

0 upvotes

Actually En Trance, the most popular and well known photographs seem to be photojournalism shots that define a major event or portray famous people.
And the list of 20 most expensive photographs ever sold is not full of shots of half naked women.
While research from 2014 of British trends showed that the most shared photos online where those of cats, which more than doubled selfies.
I'll have to assume the rest of your posts are heavy sarcasm...

0 upvotes

Well said fmian. It is great to show the extent of ones knowledge. I am so sure that you discovered all of that wisdom while pressing keys on your iPhone. Try taking a walk through the Paris Louvre or the Metropolitan or the Field Museum in Chicago and see if your half baked research project holds up. So I guess we just flip the page on Pablo and Leonardo in favor of some Chinese kids wonderful selfie with cat. You are definitely not a Fake Azz Idiot!

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

But I have been known to be a lil sarcastic at times...

0 upvotes

Let's see, PARIS, FOUNTAIN, CAT or is it PARIS, FOUNTAIN, NUDITY, I always get things confused! Anyway let the French know to get rid of the fountains and replace them with litter boxes, per fmian!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

You can't troll a former troll En Trance ;)

A. I don't have an iphone.
B. Using (predominately) painters as an example might further your limited argument but we are actually talking about photographs.
C. What's the heating like in your mothers basement?

1 upvote

I don't agree with the comments that it will be outdated by the time the 5D4 comes out and other Mfrs will exceeed the MP count and its no good without better Dr etc

All these things will be true eventually but Surely the point is at the moment IF you need a 50mp camera, IF that suits your printing needs then it is available to buy ( or will be soon) Just because Canon had the FF market to themselves for a while once doesn't mean its now a race to regain that situation.

DR: if the DR is the same but the noise is better, that'll do me, just being able to edit the deep shadows would be a big improvement. If the colour is better that'll be a boon.

If people want a 4K Vid camera then get teh 5d4 (when it comes out). If people want a high fps or high iSO get the caeras that has it, don't whine about one that doesn't.

Al I care about is whether it will produce a better looking print at the sizes I print than my 5d2. If not I'll pass it by, if it does , I'll get it. Simple really

1 upvote

Interview with a Canon executive recalling product management meetings that they held regarding video:
http://youtu.be/sJBq0z2Vmu4?t=53s

3 upvotes

thanks for the link and laugh.

0 upvotes

Good laughs here too!

A Canon user.

1 upvote

"but at least it isn't a step backwards. And hey - 50MP!"

LMAO thanks dpr you made my day.

0 upvotes

Canon is not fighting the sensor war. If u can't take a good picture then, u can't now, Sony sensor is not going to help u get better pictures either.

0 upvotes

More dynamic range opens up more potential shots though.

8 upvotes

Zoron is talking about talking good picture. DR is not the only remedy. E.g. if you can frame and nail your shots properly focused, having >DR is not going to help you. isn't it?

2 upvotes

His point seemed to be that who should care, which is a specious point.

0 upvotes

you should use your google skills then and look for two pro photographers having at it at a ski resort fps match
A6000 vs 7dII ...after seeing the canon fail over and over again come back here and tell us how there are areas where cannon comes out better ..i must add a LOL now :P

2 upvotes

Wow. I just watched that. Embarrassing for Canon.

1 upvote

In the near future a lot of us will need therapy because we are approaching our eyes resolution with each step forward in sensor quality. That day will come (if we just wait awhile) and then we can choose between what we can see with our eyes, stereoscopically and in real time motion (no tears for us, think love and wear a smile) and a static 2D approximation we need thousands of pounds worth of equipment to be able to see properly.

We shall then have to cope with the crushing reality of the folly of attempting to reproduce anything at all, and will need therapy to help us realize that we never needed all this in the first place

3 upvotes

For those of you talking about Megapixels wars, let me tell you that this is not a war, but an occurrence predicted by Moore's Law and to a certain extent it is inevitable so far. Camera technology is only catching up, thanks to Sony BTW.

Additionally, sensor-pixel technology is already capable of the following:

If in a m43 sensor Pana is capable of jamming 16MP in 225mm2 then a FF sensor with 864 mm2 can jam 61 MP of the same quality. Now when was the first 16MP m43 that came about?

if in a 1" Sensor Sony is capable of 20MP then FF could have 149 MP of the same quality pixels

If Samsung is capable of 28MP APSC sensor then FF could have 65 MP of the same quality pixels.

So, actually FF 50 MP is well behind because mechanical and cost considerations but technology will catch up on those front too as Moore predicted.

So NO Megapixel wars at all. Be prepared to see the 150MP FF camera with a DR equal of the RX 100 III in perhaps 5-10 years?

BTW I'm not saying that 150MP is great

6 upvotes

thanks to Sony BTW... Sony is not responsible for all camera/optical associated technology. Majority of these technology are outsourced or built on some other companies first principle development.

0 upvotes

But you have to recognize the role of the challenger...

1 upvote

the fact remains the same.
About challenger:
What's to point of challenging by throwing so much money and still not lead the overall ILC market. They tried the A/M mounts, E, now the FE mounts.I guess they'll focus less on E mount and probably focus more on FE. They'll probably get in to MF if they can't rock the boat with FE mount. You know jumping between formats/mounts is not a cost effective way plus it's going to upset many whom have invested on a particular format/mount.

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

You just defined what a challenger is and also explained why challenging is so expensive. Thanks Sony for being the industry challenger. One has to have deep pockets to face Canikon in their own turf.

2 upvotes

Sony has always said if Nikon asked for ta sensor with any number of pixels they could make it.
Personally I have a D800 with 36MP and I dont use it as much as my D600. So if I had a Canon setup I would see no reason to buy this camera.
For someone who shoots landscapes all the time this camera may be a boon or a studio 'advertising pack' photographer but I think that this is technology looking for a problem to solve!

1 upvote

Moore's law is not really a law but observation ..also related to computers and also is very wrong at times ( chinese cpu tripled in processing power between 2012 to 2013 for instance ) .

as for MP ..when it comes together with other improvements no one will complain .
but when the other aspects as DR remains in 2008 !!! ..and when a person taking shots like that will 99% of the time use a PP software for them that badly needs that DR and color richness . then yea ..people are upset..that Moore's law or not . there has not been any real advancement in that aspect from Cannon for over 5 years.

0 upvotes

Rinkos I believe you missed entirely my point.

0 upvotes

Anyone moaning here would go out and buy one if they could afford both a 5DsR and the necessary new fast sharp lenses. Anyone.

The problem is that outside of advertizing/ fashion and Hello Magazine nobody can. The investment is double the same old versions with a Nikon D810 body.

It is a huge investment as zoom lens prices have doubled in the past few years.
In the year of the Advent of the 5D MkII the Canon 24-70mm USM L f2.8 zoom was LESS than £800 and believe it or not, so were both the 70-200mm L and the 100-400 f4.5-5.6L lenses, and video was still 1080p

Rack up the cost of new MkII versions of those lenses with a 5DsR body now.
The cost of pro Canon gear has doubled in 5 years.

DOUBLED!!!

6 upvotes

its about ruddy time as well but what about the price point? or have I missed it?.

0 upvotes

It's about $2200 for the whole thing, it might be a bit cheaper in 6 months.

0 upvotes

I'm ambivalent about the whole resolution thing, because as far as I'm concerned, my old 5d produces all the image quality I personally need, and I print to B2 and use a 27" 1440p monitor. Yes, I could use cleaner high ISO, but really, I feel image quality has never been better. It's no longer something worth agonizing over, because most modern cameras are capable of producing stunningly beautiful imagery.

4 upvotes

You are right and I certainly wouldn't need this either but for those who needs it, now there is an option. it's about having options to choose that matters.

2 upvotes

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2549658574/cp-2015-canon-shows-off-prototype-120mp-cmos-sensor

See? Canon is aiming ahead. Of course the main goal to development in photography is to be able to capture what the eye can capture... and possibly exceed it.

To those of you who might think me a fan boy... being impressed by their ambitions will still not get me to buy this camera.

1 upvote

Perhaps we should all stop the hating and take a step back.

Sure the 5DS (and 5DS R) doesn't have the DR of a D750. But it has the higher MP count.

If you think about it what canon is trying to do is not so easy. There is a lot more at play than most realise. I have read articles that point out that software companies often make changes and releases in order for their consumers to have a sense of progress (cough cough look at itunes). Releasing this camera is a step forward for canon. The DR issue requires a lot of changes and tech implementation that they probably don't have set up (yet lets hope). They are a proud company that doesn't want to simply by sony chips. That move from nikon could be perceived as desperate. It would be the same if canon did the same.

Sony is a company to be watchful for. They have the established tech and fabs to go full steam ahead with regards to the development of their chips. It is the corner stone to their products after all.

2 upvotes

You kind of have a point. But I think the camera would have been a magnitude more interesting, if it had APS-C sensor and was 50% cheaper.

50MP on APS-C, at $2000, would have been a grand news, even with all the high ISO and DR limitations. Because nobody did it before.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting

1 upvote

It's time now to move on to SONY or NIKON.
I've been using Canon DSLR for several years.
I have now 5D Mark III. which I use for video and still.
I just couldn't find any rational reason that make canon decreasing the video capabilities of this new 5DS

1 upvote

I have already moved. :-) To Sony A6000.

0 upvotes

Out of interest how many megapixels did my old Canon A1 have when using a roll of Kodachrome?

1 upvote

Depends on the film.

1 upvote

Grain does affect detail, however not directly comparable to pixels of course. Grain was a balance between necessity and a desired look. In the old days before decent digital cameras we drum scanned film for high res purposes. (Then put the files into photoshop.) I used the best commercial scanning services available at the time and they often told me with 645 medium format film that they couldn't get anything more out of the scanners once they got around to 60mb RGB TIFF files... ( note* mega byte not pixel).. so for 35mm I expect that would have been about 20ish mb which is not much. Alot more detail in say a 5D3 RAW file than the finest grain 35mm film drum scanned. So the 5Ds/r will be better than the best drum scanned large format 10x8 film I would think. It's going to be a good camera for me to buy... not very exciting but definitely very useful!!

2 upvotes

6 to 8 MP equivelant

0 upvotes

What BS... announcing it in February when availability is 4 months away! That's desperation for you - trying to keep customers onside when they are leaving in droves!

Given the impending release of the Sony sensors with superior DR and how the mirrorless A7 is changing the pro landscape...

& look at the pricing!

6 upvotes

I agree about the A7 changing the game for a lot of things but its safe to say for now. This camera is the only camera of its type so I guess they can charge anything thing they want. There will be some people that will purchase it and under the right conditions it will produce stunning pictures along side with their expensive wide zoom. Its obvious its not for the average joe. I for one rather go the more practical mirrorless route.
Thats business

1 upvote

What's desperate? Canon is still the worlds largest camera maker, and unlike many others it consistently makes a profit from its imaging division. Mirrorless is still a fraction of DSLR sales, the landscape is actually changing very little other than an overall shrinking market. Mirrorless sales in 2014 were down by 17% compared to 2012 according to CIPA, the revolution has stalled.

1 upvote

Should I wait for the promised pro mirrorless Canon? at this resolution and 10 fps for 60 RAW frames ( because after a decade they have fitted a big enough buffer), it might be worth it from the noise and vibration angle, especially since I've been told it will look pretty much identical to a 1D MkIV because they are not thinning down the body, thanks heavens. Will fit all EOS EF lenses then.

I do not want to have to upgrade from what's coming in June to what's following pretty soon afterwards, but keep my Nikon until Canon make the switch to mirrorless full-frame. I just cannot afford any more upgrades at these prices.

The new 11-24 f4 is £2800 today, more than double the Nikkor 14-24 f2.8 which is twice as fast-which at these noisy high resolutions means quite a lot on occasion

1 upvote

depends on your needs.

Comment edited 17 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Wow, 2020 comments, now this looks like a posting record on DPR. This is comment 2021:1-2-3-4, oh Lord, gimme more MP, gimme more DR, and more FPS - and don't forget 40K video, 'cause I can't get no, I can't get no satisfaction ;-).

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

hahahaha!
True, lots of comments!

0 upvotes

I' m curious if Canon generates with their new 5DS series finally 1 comment per pixel here... unless DPR closes this thread before their servers collapse.

There is so much nonsense her, including 6/8 cranks "owning" already 5DS/ SR according this poll (by this moment). This thread is an electronic waste dump. I am sorry for the DPR people who have to host and moderate all of this. Hope they still have enough time for doing reviews.

0 upvotes

Total comments: 2258

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