www.fgks.org   »   [go: up one dir, main page]

The Great Debate: Do Millennials Really Want Cars, or Not?

Why are young people less likely to purchase cars, or even have driver’s licenses nowadays? One theory has it that the generation that came of age with the Internet and smartphones thinks cars are pretty lame. Automakers prefer to see the situation differently — that young people today love cars just as much as any other group, but just can’t afford them right now.

The auto industry has been in recovery mode over the past few years. Automakers sold 14.5 million new cars and trucks in 2012, a 13% increase over the prior year, and the highest total since 2007. Projected auto-sales totals for 2013 should easily beat last year too, topping 15 million. Even so, the comeback has been called a “subpar recovery,” and a prime reason why sales haven’t truly taken off is that younger consumers today aren’t buying cars like younger consumers traditionally have in the car-crazed U.S.

Gen Y has been dubbed Gen N, as in Generation Neutral — which is the way some describe how millennials feel about car ownership. Studies have shown that fewer young adults have driver’s licenses, that this group hates the traditional car-buying process more than other demographics, and that they prefer urban living and socializing online and therefore have less need for cars.

The latest data from the University of Michigan’s Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI) bolsters the idea that younger Americans are much less interested in car ownership than their older siblings, parents and grandparents. Bloomberg highlighted data from the study showing that while consumers in the 35-to-44-age demographic were the most likely to be purchasing new cars four years ago, today it’s the 55-to-65-age Baby Boomers buying new cars with the most frequency. In 2011, boomers were 15 times more likely to purchase new vehicles than young millennials (ages 18 to 24), and even consumers ages 75 and up have been buying cars at higher rates than groups ages 18 to 24 and 25 to 34.

(MORE: Will Millennials Change How Cars Are Bought and Sold?)

The Detroit Free Press focused on UMTRI’s findings regarding young adults who don’t have driver’s licenses. A survey of 600 Americans ages 18 to 39 who don’t drive inquired after the reasons that they don’t have driver’s licenses, and the most popular response (checked by 37%) was that they’re just too busy. Another 32% cited the cost of car ownership as a reason, and 31% said they haven’t bothered to get a driver’s license because of what might be called the “mooch factor”: when necessary, it’s easy for them to catch a ride with someone else. What’s more, 21% of those surveyed said they would never get a driver’s license.

Overall, the impression one gets is that millennials just don’t have the passion for driving and owning a set of wheels that previous generations have had — at least not to the extent that they’ll devote a significant portion of their income to owning a car. “I have a son who lives in San Francisco; when I get a new car and I tell him what I got, he couldn’t care less,” Michael Sivak, author of the UMTRI study, told Bloomberg. “To him, it’s a means of getting from A to B. He goes into great lengths about taking a BART or bus, even though it takes him an hour longer.”

So younger consumers just don’t particularly care for car ownership, right? Wrong, say automakers. “I don’t see any evidence that the young people are losing interest in cars,” Mustafa Mohatarem, GM’s longtime chief economist, said to Automotive News. “It’s really the economics doing what we’re seeing, and not a change in preferences.”

Instead of accepting the premise that millennials see car ownership as “not cool,” automakers are insisting that low rates of driver’s licenses and vehicle purchasing by young people come mainly as a result of car ownership being out of reach financially for this group right now. As the economy improves, and as millennials get a little older and have more need for cars due to work and family responsibilities, auto experts assume that this generation will have to embrace car ownership to a much larger degree. They see the car-ownership alternatives — public transportation, as well as services like ride sharing and car sharing — as having only a negligible impact on the auto-sales business in the future.

(MORE: Big Data Is My Co-Pilot: Auto Insurers Push Devices That Track Driving Habits)

That’s why automakers keep spending millions to market to young consumers at a time when, in the short term at least, the money might be better spent trying to woo customers ages 50 and up. In a Bloomberg story about how automakers aren’t giving up on the millennial market, Ed Kim, an AutoPacific analyst, explained, “It may be a long-term endeavor to appeal to younger drivers because a lot can’t afford new vehicles now, but they will a few years down the road.”

124 comments
Cascade
Cascade

Strangely enough most of this countries wealth is also in those older demographics.  In my own opinion I feel the reason younger folks aren't buying new cars is because companies aren't paying them enough to own them.  Heck, for many one college degree isn't enough to find a decent job these days.  How do you expect people to buy things with no buying power?   

88bgt88
88bgt88

I am a thirty something who LOVES not owning a car.  I moved my family to Europe a few years back for many reasons, but one of the big reasons was to NOT own a car and my family member's lives are so much better for it.  We walk, scooter, bike, and use the amazingly efficient public transportation options.  We just got back this morning from a 4 day bus trip to France and we walked everywhere and took several bus trips into the Lorraine countryside.  We don't miss our car and have almost forgotten what life was like with one.  

I say almost because I DO remember the endless frustration of sitting in the same traffic jam every day, paying huge gas and repair bills and the feelings of cultural and societal isolation whenever we were driving somewhere and our scenery was the endless drudgery of roads, gas stations and angry heads from other car windows.  We have said good riddance to car ownership. My kids are growing up with a dream that doesn't match what the countless car commercials will tell you is the American dream of owning the newest most feature laden car. 

blakeNaustin
blakeNaustin

This doesn't play out in my home or in that of others I know.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley like.author.displayName 1 Like

@blakeNaustin 

Of course it doesn't.

People are individuals.  We all have different circumstances, and different priorities.

Some Millenials have just decided that they don't need or want a car.  Others do need or want a car, and that's okay.

I really don't get why some people on this forum think that someone who chooses not to own a car is automatically judging them...it's a personal choice.

ahandout
ahandout

@RekkaRiley @blakeNaustin  I don't really care if you own a car or not.  It won't make a bit of difference to the universe.

Just don't call me at 2 am to give you a ride.  I am responsible, and can take care of myself.  You will be dependent on others.  

Maybe you can do without a car.  I think that you will find that you cannot. 

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

How is owning a car automatically a sign of responsibility?

I'm honestly curious.

I have not said that I will never own a car. I might at some point, but not right now. It's just not necessary for me right now. I can walk, ride a bicycle, or take the bus most places that I need to go. On the occasion that I do need a ride from someone, I pay at least half of the cost of gas for that trip.

I don't understand the attitude that depend ending on others is always inherently wrong. Humans are social creatures; depending on others is how societies are supposed to function. It's not about being lazy or making others do all the work. It's about the principle of "I scratch your back, you scratch mine."

The whole point of the article is that there is a trend that Millenials do not see cars as "cool." That does not mean they hate cars or actively avoid them. Speaking from experience, it simply means that many of my peers see cars as a useful tool rather than a status symbol. We'd rather have a compact vehicle with good gas mileage, that prioritizes function over looks.

There are exceptions to every rule, but most of the Millenials I've met who own cars do so out of the need to get from Point A to Point B, not because they think it will enhance their social standing. That's what the article was about, though it appears that many of the readers either didn't read the whole thing or for whatever reason took it mean some kind of judgement against them them on a personal level and had a knee-jerk response of decrying people without cars as everything from stupid to actively malicious.

I don't see how me not owning a car marks me as irresponsible in any way. As I've said before, several times, at this point in my life I have weighed the pros and cons of owning a vehicle under my current circumstances and come to the conclusion that the expense outweighs the benefits. It's not a judgment on anyone else, so the insults, name-calling, and hate is completely unnecessary. When circumstances change, I may revisit this decision and perhaps change my mind.

But for now, I don't need a car, and I would rather use the money saved by not owning one to pay other expenses, such as tuition, student loans (before the interest begins to build), saving for a home or retirement (the earlier one starts, the better), perhaps a nicer apartment or a new desktop PC, etc.

Is it really so surprising that young adults are sometimes capable of rationally considering the full consequences of their choices before parting with their money? I know some that spend frivolously, but I know just as many members of Gen X and the Boomers that do the same thing. Clearly, bad budgeting is not exclusive to any single generation.

boyziggy
boyziggy

I love not owning a car!  I walk, bike, or bus to work, and I use zipcar or citycarshare when I need a car. I have access to a fleet of vehicles where my home and work are, which I can access anytime I want with my smartphone.  My car-sharing bills are a fraction of what it would cost me to own a car.  I have a much higher standard of living by not buying and maintaining my own personal car.   

LilianaVess
LilianaVess

I'm saving up for a car now. I'm not worried about the cost of the car, I'm worried about car insurance and upkeep. Those things are expensive, and contribute to what makes owning a car so unrealistic for so many young people.

MCWest
MCWest

@LilianaVess I say cost effective because what take 15 minutes in a car takes 2 hours on the bus. Add $20 for lost wage plus $5 fare, the cab costs $15, decision made..

MCWest
MCWest

@LilianaVess But not being able to afford it and not owning one are two different scenarios. I don't plan on allowing the Asian corporate slaveholders to try and take my inheritance (land) to build any boondoggle. I live in walking distance from work in a sublet room so I can save for a car, and my mom drives me when I need it since the bus is not time efficient and if I minus the $10 per hour to take a bus for a 15 minute ride its cost effective to call a cab instead since I work. Public trans is for people in severe poverty, or the hours they are losing per wage would make it obsolete.

kinolurtz
kinolurtz

@MCWest @LilianaVess I America public transport is for those in poverty maybe. Not here in Europe. Is your public transport really that terrible? 

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @LilianaVess 

I'm not in severe poverty, and I don't want a car if I can help it.

There is nothing wrong with public transportation, provided it is built correctly.

Seriously, what's the point in getting a car when I can either carpool, walk, or take the bus to wherever I need to go?

I can count on one hand the number of occasions or situations in which I would actually "need" a car...and even then, I can usually just carpool with someone and split the cost of the gas.

I get a bus pass either through my school (about $100 per quarter) or through Metro (about $80 a month), and it gets me completely free, unlimited rides as long as it's valid.

If the bus or carpooling can't get me where I need to go, there's the train system, which uses the same pass.

There are plenty of things I'd rather spend money on then a car.  Like building a new desktop PC.  That desktop PC is a lot more useful than a car where I live.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @LilianaVess 

What makes you think I live with my parents?

I haven't lived with either of them in years.  They don't support me in any financial way.

I wasn't a latchkey kid either.  

I just wasn't overburdened with after school activities that hinder mental development.

My parents taught me to be a productive, INDEPENDENT adult, capable of taking care of myself.

Clearly, I can't say the same of you.

Seriously, you are posturing and making assumptions about some random, anonymous person on the Internet.

You expect me to take someone like you seriously?

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @LilianaVess Why do I get the feeling that 'you' not being in poverty but you tout the bus as something fun, when it is not fun at all or convenient, that your parents whom you live with have plenty of money and you have no idea what you're talking about? I think that maybe they are at work and you're a latchkey kid who managed to circumvent the firewall your mom keeps trying to put parental controls on!!!!

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @LilianaVess 

So, really this is about your own personal fear of a personal fantasy about "evil, dirty poor people" who are all out to destroy you and everything you hold dear.

I've never had a problem with the public schedule, or the people on the bus.

Hell, half the folks I've ridden the bus with in my city are lawyers, doctors, students, young professionals.  None of them fit your bigoted stereotype of "people who ride public transportation."

My city is built in the center of an hourglass, where driving just isn't feasible no matter how much money you have.  It's far cheaper and faster to park at a park-and-ride and take the bus or the express train in.

You clearly feel threatened by people in general, given your attitude towards the idea of sharing air with anyone, and I pity you for it.

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @LilianaVess There's people in tribal Africa in huts and with filthy water who circumcise women so the infant doesn't kill the mother upon exit of the canal, who don't want a house or running water or a toilet or hospital sterility.. Ignorance is bliss. Have you ever owned a car and had the funds at your disposal to enjoy it without looking at your bank account? If you have not the means you are probably in poverty but are not aware of it. I have trouble believing you enjoy the elements, being crammed like a sardine in standing room only, adjusting your outings to a public schedule, waiting at a bus stop while homeless men with no teeth leer and picking through unsavory sticky wet spots on the sidewalk while you walk where the bus does not go and that you don't wish that time was spent on more constructive pursuits..

MCWest
MCWest

Oh yes and if anyone is wondering why no 'millenials' are venting their own opinion on here, just go for a walk and see that the youth unemployment IE Homeless rate unless their parents decide to support them (unlikely!) Now ask yourself how they plan to post on here when they are busy walking around looking for their next meal. The birth rate for non immigrants is plummeting, all the old retirees or old owners are chucking their money on overseas travel instead of supporting the local economy, and the cops are making sure every kid spends their money on lawyers, psych docs, court fees, or all three all while the 'baby boomer' and 55ers enjoy spending their earnings in places that wont even hire their own kids because they need everify and to stop employing immigrants! Go FIGURE! Now all these miscreant senile jerks are gonna act like we don't WANT cars? Do YOU WANT A CAR? if the answer is yes, maybe you should assume that is 'YES WE WANT CARS' for us too, but that we see it as an unlikely and unattainable goal when the lot of us are either shacked up into 1 bedroom or studio or sublets together working our butts off to eat, nevermind cars and marriage when you don't know what you are going to eat. It is a planned purchase, but Its hard!

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest 

Why are you so afraid of everything?

You seem to think the entire world is somehow stacked against you on a personal level.

Are you Gen Y yourself?  Your earlier comments heavily implied that you were not, so I'm not sure where you are getting this "we" bit from.

tdpwa1
tdpwa1

When I was that age I spent a lot of time on public transportation in San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. While using public transportation in Switzerland may be a pleasant experience, in the Bay Area, not so much...It was however a learning experience!

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@tdpwa1 

Public transportation depends a lot on peoples' stereotypes about it.

The current American attitude towards transportation infrastructure is the result of nearly a century of marketing aimed at selling cars.

However, more and more areas of the US are discovering that a system built entirely around cars just isn't feasible anymore.

*
* like.author.displayName 1 Like

Who wants to use public transportation and sit next to all of the dirty poor people? Filthy. I guess millenials have much lower standards. I am part of gen-Y but I will always own a car. However I do like to save money ...get a good deal, good gas mileage, etc. I prefer to drive it for 10 years also...so stick with honda's or other reliable vehicles.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@* Damn those dirty poor people and their evil, slatternous ways!

How dare they breath your air?

Can't they see they are tainting your car's coolness factor with their vile presence?

/end sarcasm.

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @* I think you live with your parents and must be like, a teen or a youth, since you use the terms 'cool and kids' in conjunction with cars, the only means for adults to go about the business they must if they intend to make the same young persons into successful, self supporting adults who can help them in their old age... No offense, maybe you should study and get into a good college so you don't end up doing it at my age when its a lot harder. And if you decide to be smarter than when I was a teen online acting like an adult and do better than me and graduate college with honors with a BA degree and own 10 cars and be a CEO when you ARE older, then I am doing something constructive right now, right?

MCWest
MCWest

@nix.nightbird @RekkaRiley @MCWest @*

Awesome. Go Ask My Little Pony to file your taxes this season, and don't forget to call me when you get audited or desire an amendment to your return since s/he might fail to report your car purchase, and told you to take the bus instead to save on your total expense report because he 'supports his MTA stock' over providing the maximum tax write offs for his 'seasonal job'..

But that's only if you own a business with actual income receipts, and I guess you wouldn't have any if you had to ride a bus!!!!!

I guess that person can do pretty well as an IRS rep with that mentality! Hidey-Hoe!

Did I mention I'm in Accounting, I work with NUMBERS and not an ESL teacher?

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* Actually I am a college student. BTW. Not only that, if you're being honest you are a hell of a lot better off than I and I'm sure you made better decisions than myself which is 'why' you have it so good. That aside, I can't get to my classes and job unless I do invest in a vehicle. My city does not have good public transportation, and I have to pay for my own schooling and the education I do possess I gained through scholarship, and I don't live in an on-campus dorm but near my work. I do not have the time to work a full time job and take college courses while 'bussing it', and the transportation in my town doesn't allow for that anyhow. No I don't want it made better either because I need my own vehicle for other reasons, like having to travel frequently.

Not only that I never said I was a low skilled worker. But I sure never had the luxury of being a full time student without a 40 hour workweek either, and cars are not cool to me but a necessity.

I guess you feel justified for insulting me since you're obviously, in your opinion, one of my betters...... And as for constructive, I do not have a television set or gaming console in my house, my laptop is my sole means of entertainment, this is my day off, and believe it or not, I am making a difference in my own world by speaking out about what I believe in so to me this is more constructive than plopping on a couch to watch the tube. If you don't like it too bad, the first amendment still stands. This is not a competition BTW.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* 

I already am in a good college.  One of the best business schools in the country, as a matter of fact.  I'm well on my way to a Master's in Accounting, and I live independently and support myself financially as well.  

I had to earn everything through my own hard work, and none of it involved demanding a car.

You might want to consider going back to school yourself, seeing as how you can't spell, use basic punctuation, or understand basic literary skills.

The premise of the article is that young adults no longer see cars as inherently "cool."  Scroll up and read the article, that is the exact term used.

No, you're still not doing anything constructive.  This is the Internet, you have no way to prove that you aren't lying your ass off about everything.

In fact, you probably are, because you certainly don't sound like a sane, rational, intelligent adult. 

Most intelligent adults know better than to write run-on sentences, for starters.

Most adults don't feel the constant, pressing need to prove themselves by holding pissing matches against random anonymous people on an Internet forum.

Which all leads me to the most likely scenario where you, in fact, are the teenager.  Does your mother know you're on the Internet right now?


MCWest
MCWest like.author.displayName 1 Like

@* If the millenials have an unemployment rate of over 25%, what the hell makes you think they don't WANT a car? Wow who can have a car without a JOB?????? OF COURSE WE WANT CARS. No one wants to hoof it and plunk down their tips on a stinky bus or a train with rules and cops frisking everybody! I think everyone posting on here must be over 50 or have shares in public trans and pharma corps!

fiveseven15
fiveseven15

@MCWest @* really? im 32 and i have quite a few friends who dont own and dont WANT to own a car.  i personally could never do without it.  its too convenient.  but there are plenty of people who don't need one or just dont want one. 


the other thing is the standards.  kids now don't want to be seen in a bucket.  when i was 18 i was buying $500 cars off of a farm, fixing them up and driving them, then disposing of it when maintenance got too much.  there are plenty of cars out there that could be had for a few hundred dollars running, but you gotta be vigilant in looking for deals

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@fiveseven15 @MCWest @* 

The other aspect is the fact that a lot of Millenials have other things they would rather spend money on then a car.

Like a nice apartment, saving up for a house, food, building a better computer...it varies for each person.

It's a shift in priorities.  A car might be necessary for some people, that's okay, but some people have realized they can do just fine without one.

MCWest
MCWest

@fiveseven15 @MCWest @* Maybe they don't want one because they have their bills paid already by section 8 and GR payments. Which means i'm supporting them. I do not know anyone who does not want a car unless they are lazy and neither work or leave their video game console. I guess Rot in Peace should be on their stone one day.

TommyO
TommyO

Makes sense to me.  If you live in a city and don't need a car to commute a car is just a money pit.  With easy access to car shares it's simple to rent a car for a road trip or weekend.  The automakers are very nervous.  With less interest in cars comes a voting population which won't support as much Federal and State dollars used to build and repair roads, but instead will support that money being spent on passenger rail.  We are starting to reach a level where it's no longer wise to build wider roads, but instead put that money into passenger rail, which apparently the younger generations will welcome since they prefer not to own cars.  

*
* like.author.displayName 1 Like

@TommyO  You can stick with your passenger rail cars. I will take my clean, reliable, inexpensive 4-door sedan anyday over filthy public transportation! I am young but i do not welcome that movement you describe.

MCWest
MCWest

@* @TommyO 

Worry not, these hotshot MBAs supporting the insane bus system already basically admitted that they have stock in MTA and other public transit means.. They are merely trying to keep their stock from plummeting so they can pay off huge student loans they incurred from giving out horrible financial advice, and also want to become your tax professional while trading on the inside while they finish their Ivy league doctoral educations with TAXPAYER money!

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@* @TommyO 

Since when have cars ever been "clean," "reliable," or "inexpensive?"

fiveseven15
fiveseven15

@* @TommyO i do.  less new drivers on the road in long term will hopefully mean lower insurance premiums, not to mention less traffic.  less people wanting to drive=more open roads for you and i

MCWest
MCWest

@fiveseven15 @* @TommyO I do not agree since supply and demand are relative to price. If cars are a luxury then they become more costly as does gas since less people are buying them, which is the current condundrum. Also when saving for a bit to buy cash offsets outrageous interest rates and makes collision coverage null, then those things get bypassed and the price actually goes up. Way up. Just  like the minimum wage - if it stays the same, inflation must adjust down. If it went up and it will not because of this exact issue, all costs rise relative and that increases my total expenses making me poorer and the people who cried for the minimum hikes no better off. Thus, its not going to be increased.

Remember that when mobile phones were a luxury and for the few the cost was exorbitant. Now people who don't even have a toilet, a roof over their heads, or running water have them because the supply and demand made them affordable to anyone and everyone. Cars can and should be the same, as from the beginning of time people were meant to move, not stay stagnant or in one place as evidenced by horses and carriages. People need to move, so we need to increase supply and demand of autos plus it produces jobs. Electric cars and hybrid makes the emissions/greenhouse gas argument a moot point. The less spent on public garbage for the masses and the more available resources are used for individual efficiency and need, the less the cost for the newer greener tech will be.

MatthewW.Hall
MatthewW.Hall

There is another alternative, living in a place where a car is less important or even unimportant. THIS is what threatens the highway, real estate, mortgage interest deduction industrial complex.

*
* like.author.displayName 1 Like

@MatthewW.Hall  I don't think they feel threatened at all...because just wait until you decide to get married and have kids. All of the sudden your inner city school filled under-performing minorities will make you reconsider living in the suburbs at which point you will buy a car.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@* @MatthewW.Hall 

Fail Troll.

I smell a "cool kid" who feels threatened by younger people changing their minds about what counts as "cool."

But hey, if throwing out bigoted drivel at strangers on the Internet bolsters your self-esteem, go for it.  You clearly have nothing more constructive to do with your time.

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @nix.nightbird @* @MatthewW.Hall

Because whether you realize it or not, you are supporting an article and publishing your opinion, like I am. Believe it or not, News editors are largely freelancers like yourself, and they do read these posts. They have power to publish opinions they see on these forums, and those articles lead to legislation and sometimes go to Washington as a vote that will affect EVERYONE'S lives. The reason I am arguing -

Is not about you at all. It is simply weight to the side of the scale I support, because for people with families and jobs the funneling of public funding into transit systems would be a true tragedy, a waste of public resources, at least for those of us not living in an area which caters to a student economy.

I agree with the poster who says that your world is actually 'rigged' to satisfy the colleges student enrollment rolls and geared to enrich exactly the lifestyle you lead. However, if due your opinions some lawmaker got jazzed to invest in MTA stock and introduced legislation that translated to the rest of us, you might regret your opinions when you join society in terms of a wage paying job, possibly not receiving financial aid or government grants or loans to pay your bills, marriage, and family and laugh at your current assertion in favor of public transit....

If you don't believe its possible for public opinion on this type of publishing media leaks to Washington, think again. That is why I get so heated. What you see as your opinion and nothing comes from it, I see as future suggestions and I know from experience, what you see here also affects the future. For all of us, not just you. It affects my life with a lot more gravity than you realize, and I actually am a member of a political campaign to stop funding for high speed rail so yes I will argue my point, and I will also win because your livelihood and quality of life depends on it whether you realize it now or not.

Also internet media contains a lot of abbreviations, etc. and I think you bashing people for things as trivial as typos, unless they work for Time is actually immature and irrelevant, as getting my post published is far more important that someone who goes through my opinions with a fine tooth comb in order to have more to blast me with if you will. As for why I brought up your typos and work choices? Just returning the 'favor'.


 

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @nix.nightbird @* @MatthewW.Hall 

The fact that you trying to keep the argument going indicates that yes, you are still being unproductive.

You are the very person who took offense to someone having a different opinion about something, and started a flame war.

I never once said that people SHOULDN'T own cars.  That's not for me to decide.  Some people need them, and that's okay.

I don't need one right now, so I'm not going to get one.

I might need one someday, and I might get one someday, but not right now.

I really don't understand why you assumed that this meant I was somehow judging you for needing a car.

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@nix.nightbird @RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall 

What makes you think I don't value the opinion of people of different ages?

I understand that someone else, in different circumstances, might need a car.

I don't need one, so I choose not to own one.

I really do not understand why it is so difficult for you and MCWest to understand that I am not judging anyone for owning a car.  It's none of my business!

Again, this whole argument started because MCWest and * became offended by the notion that someone might choose to not purchase a car, and both began hurling insults about.

I may get a car at some point in my life...but not right now.

Right now, I don't need a car.  So I'm not going to get one.

I do find the stereotype of public transportation being "disgusting" or "dirty" a tad bit offensive.  I was raised on mass transit; my family couldn't afford a car until I started elementary school.  I've ridden all sorts of mass transit, in many different places, and I've only been nervous once.  I say this all as a scrawny young woman:  I do not see anything to fear from mass transit.  

It is no more dangerous than walking through a crowded mall.

And yes, I have taken my nieces on the bus to the zoo with me, and their parents were with us too.  It was too expensive to drive and find parking down there; we would've had to drag two toddlers several miles to get from the parking area to the zoo, whereas there was a stop for the express bus right in front of the entrance.  It was fun, and the only issue we had was teaching my older niece that just because she isn't wearing a seatbelt does not mean it's safe to wander about.

I really don't understand why one individual's personal choice is taken as an automatic judgment against everyone else?

nix.nightbird
nix.nightbird like.author.displayName 1 Like

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall 

And again, I'll point out that you have misspelled plenty of things, and you use childish Internet slang like "fail" instead of typing proper words like "failure" -- And I'll remind you that you're standing in this glass house with a handful of rocks, and honestly coming off like a bit of an elitist snot.

But hey, I get it. You're all grown-up now! `Early-mid 20s, I'm guessing (oh, yes... ~24, it looks like?) and you've got it all figured out. You're at that "People over 30 can't be trusted and don't know what they're talking about" phase. We were all there. It's okay.

I'm certain you're not underage, though. You have that 20-something snide haughtiness that seems to be common among Gen-Y kids. Again, I'm sure you'll grow out of it once you get into the real world (no, you're not there yet. You said yourself you're still in college, and that is FAR from the real world). Once the universe beats you up a bit your attitude will change, and you may possibly even realize that having a family and responsibilities beyond classes, hanging with friends, and a non-career job means you'll need a car if you want to reclaim all the hours of your day and get all your tasks done. 

Public transportation is fine when you're alone and in a college town that has a nice public transportation system that supports the school. Try doing it in a more rural area, away from the hub of your college life, with offspring who need to be to school, to daycare, to activities, and to bed by certain times. You'll warm up to the idea of having a car available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week when you realize the rural public transportation schedule outside of college towns and major metropolitan areas starts at 8 AM and stops at 10 PM, and doesn't go anywhere you need to be when you need to be there. You'll run screaming from public transportation when you realize that taking your children on the bus when it's full of some seriously crazy, dangerous, sick, drunk, unfriendly people is a bad idea-- Not just because of the possible threat to your kids, but because it's hell getting them to sit down, be patient, and accept that it takes an hour longer to get anywhere and that you'll have to stand outside for a while before the next bus comes.

And this is also assuming you live in a nice, sunny state. Come further north and try living an adult (Out of college, far away from your chums) life when it's freezing winter weather for 4 months out of the year. Try doing it once you have a family of your own... Try looking down at your frowning 2-year-old as her little nose turns red from the chill wind, and tell me again how your "straight" your priorities are.

Good luck, kiddo. I'm sure you'll do alright once you get a few more miles on you and lose that enormous chip on your shoulder. 

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

You said yourself that you didn't want a competition.  So why are you still hurling insults about?

All it does it make you sound stupid and spoiled.

Again, you keep missing the point.

All I did was state a different opinion than you.  Both you and * responded by hurling insults and hyperbole.

What is it about me deciding that I don't really need a car that makes you feel so threatened?

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall 

Rad, smarty-pants I'm getting ready for deadlines filing a zillion October Extensions AND pass my Accounting class with an A+

Beeyatch! Spelling error INTENDED!

I'll be sure to target my marketing to SEATTLE since I plan to expand the biz soon and tell them that our firm is skilled at preparing returns ALL YEAR ROUND!!!!!! Your clientele are probably BEGGING for an Amended Return thanks to your brilliance!

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

Where are you getting all of this?

Where did I mention writing off shoes as a business expense?

That's illegal and stupid.  Shoes are not a business expense unless they are part of a required uniform and can't be worn as part of any non-business outfit.

So you focused on the word "freelance," and totally missed the bit about "I work full-time preparing tax returns during tax season?"

Wow, I don't even have to try anymore!  Your Insane Troll Logic and total idiocy is doing all my work for me!  This is fantastic!

This whole argument started because I stated a personal opinion about a personal choice (not owning a car), and you felt threatened enough by it to start a flame war.

Now that you are losing said flame way, you're throwing a tantrum.

Need I say more?

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall 

I know that when I file the 1040 S I won't be advising anyone writing off a pair of shoes and tell them that a car purchase is not as good as a box filled with bus fare proof of purchase!

I think you put your foot in your mouth. Freelance says it all. You aren't going to be comprehending much with the IRS telling people to take a bus and be an owner.

I suppose you go either go dump your MTA stock and cause a sell off, expose your insider trading secrets and put writing off the subway or bus fares in PRACTICE to make some $$$ and stop telling me how to do a bad accounting job.

Need I say more?

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

You have the nerve to lecture me about tolerance, when every post you have made thus far has been filled with nothing but loathing and vileness towards anyone who chooses not to own a car?

Then there's your vitriol against people who you deem to be "dirty and poor."

Where has your tolerance been?

Yes, I made a typo.

You, however, have posted paragraphs that were so ridden with inexcusable mistakes that no native English speaker has an excuse to be making, that they were barely even legible.

Yet again, you contradict yourself at every turn.

One moment you are claiming that you don't want a competition, then you immediately pipe back up with "I bet my tax firm has better A/R billing than yours!"

How is that not calling for a competition?  One that I don't accept, because as you can't seem to comprehend, this is an anonymous forum and neither of us has any way of proving any of our claims about ourselves.

Also, "tax firm" should not be capitalized unless it is a specific name.

You should also not be using more than one exclamation point.

CEO and CPA are abbreviations that should be capatilized.  One stands for Chief Executive Officer, the other stands for Certified Public Accountant.

I never said I was a CEO, or a CPA, or an English professor.  I'm not sure if you are attempting to be insulting, which is most likely the case, or if your comprehension skills really are that terrible.

Of course you are seeking my approval!  I expressed a different opinion than you, AND I pointed out that you were behaving like a spoiled bigot!  Obviously, you felt threatened by my audacity, and felt the need to respond with several paragraphs of insults and further idiocy.

Who do you think you are fooling? 

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall I think tolerance may be a valuable lesson for you, but they don't teach that in college. That's a life lesson. I am not going to elaborate on my choices to you, or my circumstance. I do not want your 'sympathy' merely stated facts. Not only that, you are condescending and rude, and you lack insight as to any situation but your own. Just because 'YOU' do not need a vehicle does not mean that you should be dictating for the rest of us, and using your ideals to determine the lives of others.

The fact that you think I was seeking any approval from you or anyone else just shows that you possess conceit, that you think in your ego that I want anything from you.


Oh and here's a few grammatical errors of your own:

"Especially since the closed down 90% of the DMV offices, and there's only one that actually offers testing."

"Or by compaigning.... mass transit'

So now that you have been shown incapable of judging my English skills, I will also inform you that I also am already employed in the same field as yourself and that if you really want to go head to head, I wonder if the Tax Firm I work at has better A/R billing receipts than you. I guess you're a hotshot CPA and you hate on lowly EA's, but EA's require more continuing education than you do. Maybe I will be seeing you at a Tax Seminar since we live in the same regional conference zone and you and I will never know we once went head to head. Here's to you making partner or gaining CEO, I don't need to graduate to make partner at my firm and I actually upon graduation will be more educated than any of my colleagues/co-workers. BTW, did you pass the CPA or EA exam yet? I hear its tough! Go have fun at your next audit, are you a conservative or a democrat btw? I would like your opinion on the IRS targeting of conservatives and their insistence on reporting cash earnings fellow ACCOUNTANT!

Go make your reported income translate to English 101 in Lacerte, then convert it to a WORD doc since your specialty is English ok professor?

Oh yes and let me KNOW if you would rather Write off public transit as a Business Expense, since you are so intelligent!!!!! Oh, darn, I forgot! You cannot write that off! LOL. Ceo my foot.



 

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

You didn't drop out of college.  You got kicked out for failing English 101.

Every paragraph you have posted thus far has been a pile of illegible drivel.

My parents bought me my FIRST pass, over seven years ago, when I was in high school.  I graduated in 2007, got a job, and started buying my own pass.  

You dropped out of college to get married?  Just shy of getting a degree?  What, your ex-husband wouldn't let you finish that last quarter, and you let him dictate your life like that?

Assuming all this is true (which I doubt), you're fishing for sympathy points that you will never get.

You screwed up your own life, so now you assume that everyone who makes better choices than you is a teenager mooching of their parents? Seriously?

I take the bus because cars are expensive and not that useful.  "Cool toy" was there words used in the ARTICLE, which you clearly did not read.  It's a well-established literary device called simplification: "Expensive, fancy luxury item"="Cool toy."

A "cool toy" which I really don't need.  Unlike you, I have my priorities straight.

Hiding behind a screen of "Internet safety" really means that you know you can't prove anything, so you're trying to pretend that you're backing off out of concern for my "safety," rather than the fact that you are wrong and you know it.

You have yet to provide any proof that I am underage.  In fact, judging by your inability to type legible English, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you may actually be the underage one here.

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall No, actually I did the things you are doing now in my teens and I dropped out of college just shy of gaining my degree to get married. My ex husband left and took my kids for no reason and lost custody of both my children and I've screwed up enough to know what i'd tell any youth. That i'm now going back to school this fall to finish the degree I didn't finish when I left home to get married at 19, and thought that I knew it all but I sure don't and you could be Bill Gates for all I know with 20 screen names. Maybe you make more money than I do and are an eccentric millionaire ivy league grad with a MBA and on Forbes with more income than I can fathom and you tout the bus because you invest in MTA stock and if you are, great true story!

But when I see someone call a car a cool toy and say they use the bus and that their parents bought them a pass it makes me think you may be underage. So i'm done talking to you, its called internet safety and I would rather you not get into trouble if by chance you are not over 18...

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

"I know exactly what you are."

No, you don't.

This is the Internet.

It is impossible for you to "know" anything about me.

I feel sorry for your teenager!  Are you raising him/her to be just as terrified of the world as you?

I've never used my parents' credit cards.  I avoid them like the plague, because I've seen  how much trouble other people have gotten into with them.  Just like a car, I don't need that crap in my life.

I didn't have my own cell phone until AFTER I moved out, and I pay my own portion of the bill every month.

You think you know anything about me?  Prove it.  What's my home address?  What are my parents' names?  Where do I go to school?  How old am I?  Can you prove how old I am?  Got a birth certificate handy?

I can ask all the same of you.  You're some random idiot on the Internet.  You could be lying through your teeth about your whole life situation there.  

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @MCWest @* @MatthewW.Hall I'm guessing you don't know I have a teenager myself and I know exactly what you are, and that you should have a few rules laid down as per mommy and daddy before you figure out how to buy cellular phones or use their credit cards online kiddo!

Not to mention, I really don't like the idea of my teenager on a bus at all and that if you were my kid, I would have you come on in to the family business to gain some viable work experience or make sure you were earning college credit in HS instead of online pretending to be grown..

RekkaRiley
RekkaRiley

@MCWest @RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall 

My parents are the ones who gave me my first bus pass in high school.

As long as I either got home by dark or called to explain where I was and what was taking so long, they were confident in my ability to take care of my own safety.

It taught me independence.  It taught me not to act like a spoiled brat and demand that my parents drive me everywhere when I was perfectly capable of getting there myself.

I'm guessing you are one of those spoiled, terrified children whose parents sheltered you from the Big Bad World and taught you to fear anyone who was in any way "different."

That's really sad.

MCWest
MCWest

@RekkaRiley @* @MatthewW.Hall I think I smell the need for your parents supervision and a parental control setting on your underage opinion. Of course you support more ways to get around when your mom says 'no'.