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Help: I’m caught in wife swapping hell.

Kate de Brito

, Friday, August, 17, 2007, (10:28am)

 

Dear Bossy: My husband and I have been “wife swapping” with our best friends for around 15 years now. At first it was just purely sex but in the last 4 years it has blossomed into love all round. It’s a very confusing situation to be in. I personally have felt jealous of my lover’s wife and it has caused a few issues for me. I believe that if your marriage is a strong one then you wouldn’t be looking elsewhere for love - my lover doesn’t agree with me and insists that his marriage is still as strong as ever. Is he kidding himself, or am I? We all know that this kind of relationship is fraught with problems and is socially unacceptable but what do you do when you fall in love with someone else and need to be with them???  Regards “Confused”.

Bossy says: You think you’re confused? What about me? I can’t work out who’s in love with who. I know you are in love with your lover. And I know he doesn’t want to leave his wife. Still, I’m assuming he’s in love with you too. But you give no information about your husband and your lover’s wife. I assume they’re still swapping. And loving it. But are they in love too? Or have they been able to separate feelings from sex?

The way I see it, Confused, you’re a sanctioned mistress in this foursome. You get to sleep with your lover with his wife’s, and your husband’s, consent. But having permission doesn’t make the role of mistress any easier. And being a long-term mistress can be especially harrowing. You get the man of course, but only part-time. You have to live with the fact he’s going home to his wife after sex with you and that in the end she is his principal partner.

Unfortunately, Confused, I think it is you who is kidding herself, although I can understand the desire to do so. You’re not the first woman to discover that a man can love you but refuse to leave his wife. And it is possible to love more than one person at the same time. People in successful polyamorous relationships will attest to that.

Your lover is telling you he is committed to his wife. I’m guessing part of the reason you don’t want to accept this is because your own marriage has not held up as well. So now you are in this situation, jealous of your lover’s wife and wanting him all to yourself. The fact you are friends with these people - and I assume see them socially - must make the situation excruciatingly hard. I assume, for example, it is not ok to cuddle up to your lover in a café when you’re all having bacon and eggs on a Sunday morning.

You give no information about how this situation began so I don’t know if you set a bunch of ground rules that have been scuffed away over time, or whether this whole song and dance just evolved from a horny night in front of the DVD.

But what to do? You can continue seeing your lover, knowing he will not leave his wife. Unfortunately this is already eating away at you so you need to ask yourself whether the potential damage to your emotional wellbeing and your marriage is worth it.

The other option is to make a clean break. I wonder whether you are able to discuss any of this with your husband. Despite your strong feelings for your lover, it might be time to come clean with your husband and consider breaking up with these friends for good. I imagine there would be trauma and hurt all around if this happens. But it should not deter you if you feeling this trapped and unhappy.

You can’t force your lover to leave his wife.  And the longer you go on believing you can, the harder you’ll fall. Judging by the tone of your letter you are becoming increasingly desperate. Consider seeing a counselor for some support. Situations like these can overshadow all else in your life. And clearly there’s a lot at stake here - as there is for the couple in the other post.

What do you think? Have you ever been the other woman/man in a relationship? What do you do when you want someone but they’ll only let you have them part time?

Have Your Say

Show Oldest | Newest first    Page 1 of 2      1 2 >

Wow, what a question.
I feel sorry for you, but its hard to give my opinion when half the story is missing. I agree with Bossy, You cant make him leave his wife, and If he doesnt want to then obviously the love you share is weighted more heavily from your side.
I would love to know what the ground rules were when you started this little “thing”.
It is interesting to read about however.

I think that perhaps you need to talk to your husband, he may be feeling the same way about the other guys wife, Or speak to your lovers wife, she might be in love with your husband..

Oh it just gets jucier doesnt it… What a complicated situation. Do you think you would still be happy with your husband if this arrangement had never occured? Might be worth thinking about.

Best of Luck

beeza of tas (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (10:52am)

You are committing adultery, and for the past 15 years you have all degraded and put your marriages last for your own selfish pleasures. I know people say its ‘okay’ if noone gets hurt, but in the end someone always gets hurt because you are doing the wrong thing.

I dont think continuing the friendship or having anything to do with this couple is an option. Save your marriage. Go to counselling and remember and rekindle the first love you had with your husband, the man you married and promised to love, honour and cherish and be faithful to. You CAN have a wonderful, fulfilling and amazing marriage. It could be so amazing that you will wonder what you were thinking for the 15 years you were fooling around with this other couple. Your marriage could be the most special bond you have ever created with another human being. And heres the BUT - its going to take a heck of a lot of work. You will need lots of counselling with your husband and you both will need endless patience, good will and love to get you through.

Dont throw away your marriage. Just dont. Call a counsellor right away and get on the track to creating a fulfilling relationship with your husband.

Sarah R of Brisbane (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (11:28am)
Anj replied to Sarah R
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:20pm)

No happy Sarah that others might just might be in a situation where they could be totally happy with more than one person are you?  You are so not comfortable with that idea… I wonder where your judgements come from.  You need to accept the idea that what works for others, just works for them, not you or not me.  And personally if that’s what makes them happy go for it.

That said… It’s personally not my cup of tea (I couldn’t do it, I’m too jelaous to share!)but i do have a friend who’s married and they certainly are very happy and have ‘invited’ people to their bed and continue to do so on a regular basis; so it seems to work for them.

On anther note, so sorry Confused that things haven’t worked out as you’d planned they would.  First thing I would do is accept that your lover doesn’t love you the way you want him to.  It seems to me that you can no longer accept being the second woman in his life but that’s all you are to him, he kind of loves you but this is no longer enough for you.

Secondly do you want to be with your husband anymore? If you do seek counselling immediately and with a lot of hard work things could work out for you. 

Thirdly you need to get away from your friends and make your own decisions without sex or anything else to muddle the waters. 

Good luck no matter which way you jump you are going to go thru a lot of pain.  But just remember to be true to yourself and see someone to talk things thru with; I think it will be your saving grace throughout a difficult situation.

Sarah R replied to Sarah R
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:28pm)

OF course I’m not comfortable with the idea, thats what having values is about. You go so far and then no more. What if the husband and wife were having sex with animals or told you that they thought that killing themselves would make them happy? Would you stand idly by and say “Hey, whatever makes *you* happy”? I reject the patronising tone of your response and in reply say that I dont respond in a nasty, jeering or mocking manner to those that writein to Bossy but give them the best I have because I care about the choice they have to make at this crossroad in their life. Part of this involves my opinion and personal values, regardless of whether or not they are acceptable to the majority of others.

Anj replied to Sarah R
Fri 17 Aug 07 (02:20pm)

Actually I do think you come across as you have accused me of being and yes you believe that you are giving the best you can give just as I believe I have done but based on your ideas and your values just as mine is based on mine. 

And no I dont think getting it on with animals or killing yourself to make yourself happy are valid… but thats not what we are talking about here. And how on Earth did we get from threesomes to animals and killing yourself I have no idea!

You are right of course to have your opionion but so am I and as with everything on blogs, people have a right of of reply.  And right or wrong I exercised my mine.

So the first thing I have to admit is that there was an immediate judgemental response - bad Jane.  Look out for the rest of the reponses, because people will judge.

I think the first thing to do is stop the sex.  No matter what people say, I don’t think they can have regular sex without becoming emotionally connected - not women anyways.  And I think still being physically connected to these people will cloud your judgement.

You need to honest - and if you can’t be honest with the other three then be honest with yourself and see a counsellor.  I fully advocate time with a counsellor - helps acheive a clarity that you sometimes just don’t get on your own.

It’s going to be hard to sort your own head and heart and it will take time.  I hope you all do ok.

Teflon Jane (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (11:28am)

I’m not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.

Someone of Somewhere (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:04pm)
Random Thoughts replied to Someone
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:33pm)

I agree whole-heartedly with Someone… this is too twiste dfor me to even try. Well done Bossy! big surprise

Monkey Bee replied to Someone
Fri 17 Aug 07 (10:23pm)

Make that 3.

Seek professional advice, and good luck.

You need to think very carefully about what you need and what you feel. Are you unhappy with your husband? Are there fundamental problems in your marriage? You need to have a good think about why you ‘need’ to be with your lover.

Don’t leave the marriage on the expectation that you will be with your lover, that’s not fair to any of you and is an unrealistic expectation. I firmly believe that one shouldn’t leave a relationship because of a perception that another one is better, one should leave because the failings in the existing relationship means one would prefer to be alone.

I suggest that you take a step back, and stop the physical external relationship for a start. Then talk to your husband as openly as you can and work out a way to keep your marriage strong.

You need to work out what you want - to continue swapping, to stay with your husband, or to be on your own - and find ways of achieving that.

My 2 cents, or maybe only a ha’penny.

Billie (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:20pm)
Lolitta replied to Billie
Fri 17 Aug 07 (02:25pm)

Billie, good idea, but don’t you think since this started as a group thing. They should keep their clothes on and all sit down and pop all their feeling cards on the table as a group. The dynamics of that conversation would be one to witness, as I think they are all there now for their own reasons and none of them are the same…

I just hope there aren’t any kids involved - and if there are, who do they belong to??? big surprise

jenhen (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:22pm)
Teflon Jane replied to jenhen
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:45pm)

jenhen - children do NOT “belong” to anyone. Ever.

beeza replied to jenhen
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:58pm)

um jane i think jenhen was refering to who their parents are, not “belonging” as such…
Take a chill pill luv

jenhen replied to jenhen
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:06pm)

whoa - you may think that is the case - but in the “REAL” world that is not so true. If there are kids involved you can’t tell me that their paternity wouldn’t be dragged through the mud. Get real teflon.

Jeepers! I’ve read today’s articles...and my mind boggles....My question is - do the people in these situations have anything else in their lives to think about apart from pleasures of the flesh? I would be loathe to embark on such journeys for the worry of all the complications they would bring! Things are complicated enough without adding to the tangled web.....

I too, would be very interested to understand the how’s and why’s of this scenario - and whether it was entered into with any of these ramifications in mind.

Kit of Sydney (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:25pm)
Nobody replied to Kit
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:05pm)

I guess they enter these wacky relationships with the view that despite all the evidence to the contrary they are smart enough to avoid any emotional complications. Never turns out this way though!

jenhen replied to Kit
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:16pm)

I’d like to see *confused* make comment on the another confused persons’ queston - “will three in the bed crowd our marriage” That would be very insightful me thinks.
Bossy, do you think I’m odd that I like reading about other people’s problems? I personally think that they make my life seem more normal. smile But then again, oneday I may have a question for you that would knock your socks off. Who knows!

Aussie Locust replied to Kit
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:28pm)

have anything else in their lives to think about apart from pleasures of the flesh?

That’s all I think about.........

Each to their own and yes the whole swinging thing may be wrong, it has better than having a spouse or partner cheating behind your back.  At least you know what you are in for.

You need to sit down with your husband and see if this situation is one that you would like to still be in.  You also need to see how your relationship is holding up.  After 15 years, situations changes, people change, and emotions change.  So, sit down, think it through and then work it through.

Lena of Sydney (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:26pm)

Oh dear, 1st it was, how many partners are to many, now its how many bodies in the same bed, and should I feel guilt, leave him, meet her, I am just glad its not happening to the poor guy who still lives at home with mum and dad, now that would either be a psychologists dream or nightmare…
Maybe I should think long and hard about my shoe buying habits and drop bossy a line - I think have replaced men with shoes!

Lolitta of Melb CBD (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:29pm)
Teflon Jane replied to Lolitta
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:49pm)

Lolitta, do not let anyone shoe-shame you.  It is a girl’s right to shoes.

I am so glad that I am from another planet. If you have been doing this for 15 years I have to ask - are there any children involved? Not very helpful, but this sort of thing doesnt happen on my planet.

Alien of Another Planet (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (12:35pm)
lolitta replied to Alien
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:00pm)

Alien, do they have any good shoe shops or choc shops like Haigs there, I think I want to vist..

Alien replied to Alien
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:32pm)

Just think of shoe heaven...with Orlando fitting them… wink

This happened to me 8 years ago and it all ended in tears....

Been there done that replied to Been there done that
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:40pm)

My wife was sleeping with my best mate and I was sleeping with his wife for 4 years.

Then after a particularly heavy night of drinking, I ended up in bed with my mate and his wife after my wife had passed out.

I had developed feelings for my mate and we started to find excuses to exclude the women. I ended up sleeping with my mate for a further 2 years and in the end it was at a stage where we didn’t know what to do. He wanted to leave his wife and I wanted to leave mine - however he couldn’t face or handle it. He ended up taking his own life.

Seriously people who get into these things must surely see it coming! Two person relationships can be complicated enough.

Nobody of Melbourne (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:11pm)

I’ve done all sorts of things in my life, some good, some bad, and some utter tragedies.  I’ve starved and lived on park benches.  I’ve done more things than most people.

But I’ve never been in the situation you find yourself in.  I have to ask, why did you think this would be a good idea?  Did you not know about the green eyed monster?  Did you not learn about respecting yourself?  Did you not think of asking if your Mum would think it’s a good idea?

You’re in this one up to your ears, and guess what?  You’re going to have to get yourself out of it.  And for being so bloody stupid in the first place, you deserve to cop it.

Shane of Sydney (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:15pm)

Polyamory - go research this concept.  It can work.

Hegemon of Melbourne (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:23pm)

this whole topic must be understood to be accepted.Swinging is not for everyone.
My partner and i are very much in love and we have been swinging for about 4 years. We have a lot of fun. My partner is very bi and the enjoyment and pleasure we share is amazing. its all about fun and hours of it !!!!!

Makka of Sydney (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:51pm)

Unless you’ve been there i don’t think you have the right to judge. i have had a great threesome relationship with my best friends for more than 12 months. we set the ground rules first, we are all consenting adults and it is fun. if i hadn’t enetered into this arrangement i would never have taken my lesbian fantasies to the next level. all you need to be able to do is seperate the sex from emotion and enjoy it. animals do it all the time.

littlemisnosey of geelong (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (01:56pm)
Junia replied to littlemisnosey
Sat 18 Aug 07 (07:01pm)

“All you need to be able to do is separate the sex from the emotion and enjoy it.”

Why would I want to deaden myself?

What you’re saying is this: So in order to be able to enjoy certain physical sensations you need to deaden your emotions.

Ergh. You think that sounds healthy? I don’t.

This went on for 15 years and only came to a head now!!!  Unbelievable.

I am going to assume that both couples have no kids?  Can you imagine if there are kids involved after 15 years of wife swapping!!!  You’ll be wondering who’s the father.

I agree with the comments.  Stop seeing the other couple.  Be honest and tell your husband about your feeling for the other man.  Then either save your marriage or get a divorce.  It is clear to me that you were never committed to your marriage or your husband if you were ok with wife swapping ... and for 15 years.

It ain’t the pre marital sex that one should worry about.

It’s the extra marital sex that causes all the problems.

Shane of Sydney (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (03:07pm)
Aussie Locust replied to Shane
Fri 17 Aug 07 (05:11pm)

Although, technically, this isn’t extra marital sex, becaue it’s still happening within the confines of the marriage, with the knowlege and consent of all parties.

Maybe we need a new term: co-marital sex.

Mary replied to Shane
Fri 17 Aug 07 (06:44pm)

lol

good call!

this isn’t some movie where he’s gonna come around. the longer u stay with this other bloke, the more it’s gonna hurt in the long run.

get out cause ur under he’s spell

hip (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (04:27pm)

Thank you everyone for you comments re my predicament! I knew there would be considerable distaste for what we have been doing. We have been friends with these people since we were all teenagers, the husbands since they were at primary school. There is no way that we would ever end our friendship, we have too much history between us just to throw it all away. We are god parents to each others kids. All our kids belong to their respective parents. We have had many discussions and set ground rules on how to manage things but there are always variables to consider. I think I will heed the advice of some and get myself some conselling. Thanks.

Confused of 5109 (Reply)
Fri 17 Aug 07 (04:55pm)
Junia replied to Confused
Sat 18 Aug 07 (07:19pm)

I wish you good luck getting counselling. It sounds really messy and painful.

I have to ask though - do your kids know about their parents behaviours?

What do you tell your kids about sexual behaviour? Would you mind if your kids behaved the same way even though it’s causing you hurt and pain?

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Kate de Brito

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