Ipswich: A Tory-Lib Dem pact in action

One of the best videos yet in this series. Shows not only the reality of Tory ?Lib coalitions but the muddled weakness of the Lib Dems. Again we see the contrast between national LD policy and their opportunistic local parties. Left wing party? You must be joking.

Thanks John
I've really enjoyed all of these - wish you were on TV showing people how things are. Some good questions and you made sure that you didn't just accept glib, spun answers.

@alex75

The sooner that people realise that national and local Government are different things and stop equating the two the better.

Excellent film. Really great to allow the space for in depth discussion about political ideology. And very interesting to look at the sad gap between the ideals that drive people to become politicians and the decisions they make in day to day politics.

I wouldn't personally judge the possible dynamics of a lib/ con pact with one particular council - but it does highlight how the realities of governing can knock the idealism out of anyone. Is the argument being made in this film that the free market ideology of the Lib Dems can too easily slide into the laissez faire approach of slash and burn tories?

The state of that housing estate with its loss of staff was really sad - I'm sure you could find those examples in councils of all political persuasions across the country. We need to really consider when these cuts come in, just how much we lose when we cut small wage jobs like these - the same problem arises with wardens in sheltered housing.

But - it would be an interesting project ot look across the country at how different councils make cuts depending on their political colours.

Indeed, thanks John for these videos. I suspect the Lib Dems are the minority party in the local area and therefore find it hard to influence the Tory claque. However, even JH admits that they've had some influence.

Lib Dem Tory pact - utter disgrace

@canaldweller I agree it's hard to judge on one council's record, but similar things - cuts etc - do seem to be happening in other Lib-Con councils (Leeds, for example). And at the moment, it's the only arena we have to judge how these two parties work together. I too would like to read a thorough investigation of their record across the country - plus comparisons with Lib-Lab coalitions, maybe.

We're going to Southampton Itchen next - if you know the constituency, do post suggestions for people we should interview/places we should visit/issues we should explore.

@d3vl1n

Yes there are differences but equally you cannot put on one side the discrepancy between a party's national policies and local actions. What the Ipswich report reinforcesis the idea that the LDs pursue a more apolitical very lite green agenda whilst turning a blind eye to issue that impact on the poorest. That contrasts with and undermines national claims about dealing with poverty (as does the IFS report a day or two ago). So Ipswich may be slightly greened but at the expense of cutting services to council tenants. I'm struck by how seamlessly the LDs blend in with the supposedly old parties in local Govt. I would contrast that with the effectiveness of Green councillors (I'm not a Green Party voter but happy to credit for them for doing something different when they get elected).

@NatalieHanman
I would suggest that there is a story waiting to be written about the LDs in local government. I suspect it will not include anything much about new politics.

John,

These videos have been great, I've really been enjoying them and also think you're a natural - do some TV stuff! I must say I think you reflect a lot of doubts that I have about the liberals, both in terms of ideology and practicality. Most of the people I've spoken to about the election have been the epitome of what I'd regard as the 'Guardian reading liberal set'. Largely educated, self-reliant, moderately affluent, socially liberal. In short, a very decent set of people. But I think there's a real naive streak to their economic outlook, generally, and too often I think their localism can manifest itself as inaction. What moves into the vacated space when the state moves out? I'm just a little concerned that setting people free can very quickly become cutting people loose. This may be co-opted by Tories, who can't wait to stiff the poor to keep more of their own money.

Not a fashionable view at the moment, but I think some of the pro Libdem posters should bear in mind that some of us have some honest doubts about the brave new world.

Good film. Your closing line about being 'really rather troubled' strikes a chord. Unfair it may be, but I'm reminded of the old definition of a Liberal as a Tory who's been arrested by the police. Shallow ideological roots and a broad disparity of views suggests there are no principles big enough not to be jettisoned for a seat at the big table. The first sign of that has already occurred with Clegg keeping the door open to the conservatives, despite the huge gulf between them on essential issues. I have to hope that it will come home to them that a deal with the right will send them back into the wilderness as quickly as they came out.

Very few hard facts in the piece. A quick look on the Ipswich Council web-site shows 21 Labour, 19 Tories, 7 Lib Dems and 1 vacancy.

Film opens with interview about bus services. We're not told how much the Concessionary Bus scheme is costing the council. The opening shot indicated that most of the bus users were probably enjoying a free bus ride. Were the cuts in bus services trying to balance the costs of free bus passes? We weren't told.

What national policy is on Trident, income tax etc has no bearing on local government. The public often vote one way at a local election and another at a General.

I've no idea whether the Lib Dem / Con coalition is working well in Ipswich. Whether it is or isn't has no bearing on the post General Election discussions in the event of a hung Parliament.

"thats not what most people voted LibDem for" says the Labour candidate David Ellsmere, about a Tory LibDem coalition

People don't vote for them in order for them to coalition with Labour either.

But unless one party achieves a majority of the total population, then councillors have to work together.

Labour presume that they should have a monopoly of working with the LibDems. They don't.

I don't like the Tories either - but a significant proportion of people vote for them. That's a reality we all have to live with.

Cameron would rather work with the fringe Nationalists parties, just like he does in Europe.

A vote for the Tories is a vote for the Nationalists.

We have a Libdem-Conservative coalition running Leeds CC as well.

Imagine my surprise to discover - via a rebuttal of the bin men's trade union - that my council is privatising my refuse collection!!!!!

I cannot see the Clegg-phenomenon as a good thing, just a yellow wrapping on (old) Tory dogma!!

Ha ha - the opening shot, with the v.o. being "a typical English scene" is that of my neighbour walking down the road we live on - Yugoslavian, (Serbian) and a grasp of English second to many...still, that *is* England nowadays, and a good thing too.

Ipswich has featured in many an issue of Private Eye recently due to the pay given to our Chief Executive, and how she is spending the money. We have a lovely (not) new set of Council buildings, whilst the old one is still lying empty and unloved in the heart of the town. So there is money around...just fascinating to see what the priorities for spending it are.

And doesn't Gummer Junior look...well...under-developed is the kindest way of putting it...

I can remember arguing abuot whether a bus should be called a "bus" or a "bUs". Not in Ipswitch though.

What is cheap these days? You say cheap date.

Politics could be broken down in to which mobile phone company/handset the constituent representitive likes/uses. I'd be depressed if this was reality though. Perhaps I am depressed. Who knows.

How about a look at some of the Lab Con coalitions on local councils.

"Whether Nick Clegg would get into bed with David Cameron" - is this really the level of debate the Guardian has fallen to?

What has Labour nationally done to local Government funding ? What had they done in Ipswich ?

"We did a vox pop" - is that a good basis on which to run anything ?

Still clinging on to those old cliches about the Lib Dems John; the same cliches that up until recently cemented their perennial third-party status.
Pay attention to your independent thought.
Early on you list a firm set of bullet points placing the Lib Dems where you obviously want them to be - to the left of Labour, but then you sum up with uncertainty. Perhaps this is because rather than visit any of the positives that this coalition has brought to its area, you chose to cherry pick to confirm your existing bias.

Still clinging on to those old cliches about the Lib Dems John; the same cliches that up until recently cemented their perennial third-party status.
Pay attention to your independent thought.
Early on you list a firm set of bullet points placing the Lib Dems where you obviously want them to be - to the left of Labour, but then you sum up with uncertainty. Perhaps this is because rather than visit any of the positives that this coalition has brought to its area, you chose to cherry pick to confirm your existing bias.

the lib dems have all ways taken sides with new labour,and nothing as changed,the lib dems will support brown and new labour if their is a hung parliament,and we will face another five years of brown,and britain will be in complete financial ruin.

frank field new labour mp for birkenhead,says browns economic policies are like something out of alice in wonderland.

Sirles
A vote for the Tories is a vote for the Nationalists

So the Conservative and Unionist Party would shack up with the Nats would they?
Not likely (apart from anything else the public sector in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is much larger than in England so they will bear a slightly larger share fo any public sector cuts so the nats will run a mile rather than be associated with them!)

Remember all the Nationalists want is two things
(i) more money from westminster
(ii) independence from Westminster
(no I don't understand it either!)

Although politically the best thing for them would be independence for Scotland and Wales - thats at least 70 Labour seats off the agenda.

Aftre this election Clegg will prop up a Johnson-led Labour government - the two of them will phuq up big-time iand in the election of late 2011 the Tories (maybe still under Cameron - but possibly Hague!) will storm in to power but with even more shit to clear up!

A good film. Thank you. As someone who has lived in Ipswich for 25 years, I wonder if I might make a couple of observations.

For decades, Labour owned Ipswich. The Party was made up of ordinary Ipswich people who you knew as your friends and workmates. Ordinary people felt they had a say in how their town was run. A succession of fairly idiosyncratic, if not eccentric, Labour MPs were sent to Westminster, the most notable perhaps being Ken Weetch, and also Jamie Cann, who was the father of Andrew Cann, the LibDem councillor interviewed in the film.

Ipswich had one of the highest proportions of council tenancy in the country, and was that rare beast in the southern half of England, a town with a large proportion of its workforce employed in heavy engineering.

The change came in the 1990s. The factories closed. The local Labour party, which had always been broadly centre-left, got into bed enthusiastically with the Blairite project. The council began to feel increasingly distant from the town it served - no statistical evidence here, but this is my perception, and that of others I have spoken to about it.

When Jamie Cann died in 2001, the seat was taken in a by-election by Chris Mole, who to us appears to be an identikit Blairite MP, certainly not someone in the Ipswich tradition.

I began to get increasingly uncomfortable with some of the decisions the Borough Council was taking, and even before the current Tory/LibDem administration the LibDems voted consistently with the Tories against Labour policies. I think the final straw was when the council tried to close down the council-owned film theatre. Labour are still the largest group in terms of councillors, but the Tory/LibDem pact was solidified as a way of resisting policies which seemed, in large part, to be handed down from Central Office.

As far as the constituency goes, Ipswich is indeed a two-horse race, and so what is happening on the council may not have anything to teach us about what may happen nationally - except, except. Last year, the strategic health authority tried to close down the heart unit at Ipswich hospital, transferring services to Norwich and Papworth. This was deeply unpopular, and the local paper the Evening Star began a campaign against it. This was supported by Ben Gummer for the Tories and Andrew Cann for the LibDems, but, crucially, not by Chris Mole, by then a Roads minister in far-off London. He said that the closure decision was best for the people of Suffolk.

Ipswich people tend to vote on local issues, and we grumble a lot. We're fairly good at bearing a grudge against those in authority over us, and Chris Mole's failure to support the campaign against the closure of Ipswich Hospital heart unit may not be forgotten easily. A strong turn-out for the LibDems may just be enough to reduce the Labour vote and let Ben Gummer in as the Tory MP for Ipswich. Mind you, a Tory MP has very rarely held on to Ipswich for a second term. But I think a vote for the LibDems by disgruntled Labour voters nationally may just have the same effect.

It is about time to ditch Trident - there are cheaper nuclear incentives that could be considered. Obviously our sense of national pride is important, and we must make huge investments to stay on the list of potential targets for superpowers, rogue states and terrorists worldwide. Otherwise we would be in danger of becoming, like most countries, somewhat ignorable. We can see the attention that North Korea and Iran is generating already, and some predict their efforts will see them attacked sooner rather than later due to this new-found elevated status.

Good film but previous labour councils have run Ipswich to ruin, while continuing to spend. Jamie Cann, the previous Labour MP had the wonderful record of being the least active MP in parliament and Chris Mole was a awful as the labour leader in Ipswich and is awful as an MP. The LibDem/Tory pact certainly has its faults but is it a worse option than Labour?

Here in Camden we know exactly how a Lib Dem/ Tory partnership works. They have cut funding to CAB by 40%, that during a recession when it is mostly needed. They have reduced funding to youth programmes and community programmes in gerenal by 60%. They have been selling off council houses and council property in general for the past three years. Cutting back on library services and making library staff redundant. The are the only borough in the UK who are refusing ''under the freedom of imformation act'' to divulge their top management salaries and bonuses. The LibDems/ Tory alliance is made up off about 27 lib dems and 7 or 8 tories. The Lib Dems we are seeing and hearing in the press right now bear no resemblance to the gang of selfserving hypocritical snakes in the grass who controll Camden Council .

Considering that Liberals were prominent in creating what we came to know as Thatcherism, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

They are a market-first party, just like the Tories and New Labour.

Britain doesn't want this nonsense anymore.

Considering that Liberals were prominent in creating what we came to know as Thatcherism, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

They are a market-first party, just like the Tories and New Labour.

Britain doesn't want this nonsense anymore.

The Lib Dems got 20% (+5) in Ipswich last time, with Labour on 43% (-8%). and Tories on 31% (=)
Withe the 10% poll surge the Lib Dems have experienced, this one is looking increasingly like a 3 way marginal next time, this video notwithstanding.

I have to say, I live in the London Borough of Camden which is also a LibDem-Tory coalition.

Where I live this has means the local high street is so badly maintained that it keeps leaking, there are so many potholes that I don't drive my car down there any more, there have been more and there have been virtually non-stop roadworks for the last three years. The pavements are a nightmare and I trip over the sticking-up slabs even I'm not wearing heels. We have even had two power cuts which I suspect are linked to this constant road working.

And don't get me started on the rubbish collection...

Really great series John. I like the way that, like Hunter S Thompson's Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 it's increasingly becoming a personal search for your own politics as the weeks go by. I, for one, hope that you can take a similar format to a wider TV audience during the next GE campaign, whenever that may be.

TAGILBERT: The Lib Dems got 20% (+5) in Ipswich last time, with Labour on 43% (-8%). and Tories on 31% (=)
Withe the 10% poll surge the Lib Dems have experienced, this one is looking increasingly like a 3 way marginal next time, this video notwithstanding.

Unfortunately, this is Ipswich. We do things differently. People are very traditionalist in Suffolk, and no constituency in the county has ever been represented by the LibDems. The LibDems have no high local profile in the town, and most of the few LibDems on Ipswich Borough Council represent wards in the safe Tory constituency of Central Suffolk and North Ipswich. It may well be that the LibDem turnout in 2005 was a protest vote against the Labour council of the time.

The plan to sell off Ipswich Buses (one of the last Bus services in England to be owned by the people it serves, folks) has not made the LibDems any more popular here.

Three Way marginal? No, this is a solidly working class town. Ipswich is by nature a Labour stronghold, with an enthusiastic and rather eccentric local Tory party who have done a good job in bucking national trends over the last 20 years. But the LibDems would do best concentrating their efforts up the road in middle class Colchester, Cambridge and Norwich South.

Thanks John for that nice video again,and i must say that you are the most unbiased reporter i have ever seen.
Looking forward to watching your next video until then have a safe travel around the Country for your reporting.

Lib Dems - Tories in sheeps' clothing.

Excellent film. Being an Ipswich lad, this was of great interest.

I love that winning Britain's Cleanest Town is Andrew Cann's idea of curbing the Tories' right-wing influence. Ben Gummer's a really repulsive character - so unrepresentative of the town.

aneil: Ben Gummer's a really repulsive character - so unrepresentative of the town.

I'm no Tory, and I certainly won't vote for him, but at least he's a bit of an eccentric. Chris Mole seems like he was constructed out of a kit sent up from Central Office.

But if Ipswich voters want a real eccentric, perhaps they should vote for the Save Broomhill Pool Party.

englishhermit: Lib Dems - Tories in sheeps' clothing.

Hmmm. I'm afraid that I think that we've had 13 years of government by a party who were rarely more than 'Tories in sheeps' clothing'.