Comments
Of Benn and Bono
2009-04-02 08:21:16
Tony Benn said yesterday that almost all progress starts on the streets, and that the people at the top are usually the last to get the message.
Tony and I disagree about a few things, not least on the neccessity of changes that had to be made to the Labour Party, to escape the futility of opposition. But I like and respect him, even if I continue to believe if the Bennite left had taken over the Labour Party, we would have been finished as a serious political force.
So as I zipped around Paris doing interviews to promote my novel, and tried to keep abreast of events in London since I kept being asked about them, I thought about what he said. There can be few better places than Paris to do so. Come the Revolution and all that ...
There were certainly thousands of people out on the streets of London, and plenty of causes for which support and anger were being expressed - anti-banks, anti-poverty, anti-globalisation, anti-capitalism, anti-global warming, anti-war general, anti-war specific, anti-the UK government, anti-other governments, anti-all governments.
Put more positively, pro-fairness, pro-social justice, pro-jobs, pro-a radical reordering of the finances and power structures of the world. And of course, whatever the certainty with which Tony expresses his view, none of us know for sure what difference the protests make. That goes both for the peaceful protests and those which involved violence and damage to buildings and so took most of the media coverage throughout the day.
First question - would the leaders be aware of the scale and nature of the protests? Yes. They will all be aware both via briefings from their own political and security teams and from occasional snatches of TV they might catch between meetings.
Second question - will it have any impact in the short term i.e. for the decisions they are due to take as part of the formal G20 deliberations? Almost certainy not. The leaders are already well aware of the anger felt globally at what has happened in the economy, and know a lot of that anger has crystallised around the banks.
But whilst the leaders have considerable room for manoeuvre in negotiation, beyond the positions scoped out by their sherpas, I am not persuaded by the idea that demos outside the discussions - peaceful or violent - will be among the factors swaying them.
It is when you focus on the longer-term that you have to wonder whether Tony may have a point. Again, I am not as sure as he is. But I do believe that sometimes change can come through what may seem a strange coalition - because it will include leaders, among them some of those around the Summit table today.
I can remember once a meeting the other TB (Tony Blair) had with musicians Bono and Bob Geldof at the time of a G7 summit when the British government was trying to persuade other governments to take a greater interest in Africa and in particular the issue of debt relief. Tony - and he did the same around the time of the Jubilee 2000 campaign - was effectively saying the British welcomed pressure, because it strengthened our hands in negotiations with others. That was a specific cause and a specific campaign that had considerable success.
The problem strategically with the current protests is the lack of clarity about objectives, other than the right to express anger, while the violence allows those who don't want to hear to dismiss any arguments against a pre-fixed point of view. When all is said and done, all but hardcore anarchists understand that countries require governments, that democracy is the best system yet invented and that while no democratic system is perfect, governments duly elected have to be able to make difficult decisions.
How many of yesterday's peaceful protesters, whilst angry at one or all of the issues being addressed, were nonetheless joyous when Barack Obama became President? A lot, I imagine. Why? Because they felt they could invest hope in him to take the right decisions for the future. Well today he is one of twenty leaders who have to address a genuine global crisis. He did not pick the team he is working with - the other leaders - but an important team is what they now are. Making sure that leaders are aware of public feeling is an important part of the process.
Having recognised voices outside of political leadership - and in the media age that tends to mean celebrities as well as churches, charities, think tanks and pressure groups - is also important. But whether people like it or not ultimately the big decisions leading to major change have to be taken and then implemented by politicians.
Tony Benn spoke of the movement for women's votes, peace in Northern Ireland and the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa. He is right that protest played a part in all of them. But it is way too romantic to put it all down to that. And I'm not sure yesterday's protests will go down in history in quite the same way. The decisions taken today might, or they might at least lead to processes that will.
Ps, talking of Bono, later on I'll be putting up on the vlog an interview I did with him a few years back.
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Breaking news - one frenzy at a timePublish date: 2009-05-18 10:34:30
Getting a good look at Vince CablePublish date: 2009-05-17 09:36:55
How do you solve a problem like Silvio?Publish date: 2009-05-16 09:32:21
It was the internet wot won itPublish date: 2009-05-15 10:04:57
There now follows ... a good whack at CameronPublish date: 2009-05-14 17:21:28
They got their kit off - so you get your cash outPublish date: 2009-05-14 07:41:11
Expenses row must not obscure Tory intentions on minimum wagePublish date: 2009-05-13 16:12:08
We love you Burnley, we do ... what a nightPublish date: 2009-05-13 02:37:17
A tweet cannot express the wonders of TGVPublish date: 2009-05-12 08:48:31
It's Mind week - Get it off your Chest with me and Stephen FryPublish date: 2009-05-11 06:29:15
Hate the Mail, love ObamaPublish date: 2009-05-10 10:04:00
Burnley 1 Reading 0 - a biased reportPublish date: 2009-05-09 21:26:32
MPs expenses - time for party leaders to meet againPublish date: 2009-05-09 09:50:19
Should happiness replace prosperity as national goal?Publish date: 2009-05-08 08:43:23
Musings from a sleepless nightPublish date: 2009-05-07 07:33:49
Darren Fletcher - an injustice that has to be rightedPublish date: 2009-05-06 09:52:29
Maggie's legacy not as great as she thinksPublish date: 2009-05-05 08:33:02
Here's hoping Cardiff is metaphor for CameronPublish date: 2009-05-04 09:38:30
More Mr Benn and Co pleasePublish date: 2009-05-03 10:03:00
Going Fourth with JPPublish date: 2009-05-02 18:25:41
Journalism - print first, think laterPublish date: 2009-05-02 09:10:01
In praise of two poetsPublish date: 2009-05-01 10:26:36
JP hits the road againPublish date: 2009-04-29 18:52:11
My night with Eddie IzzardPublish date: 2009-04-29 10:53:25
Explaining the 50p top tax ratePublish date: 2009-04-28 09:22:53
George Best and Martin McGuinnessPublish date: 2009-04-27 09:02:35
Cameron confused over indepdendence and impartialityPublish date: 2009-04-26 12:20:56
Guide ro Marathon running part 2Publish date: 2009-04-25 11:01:34
Good signals on coal and the OlympicsPublish date: 2009-04-24 10:45:28
Tips for the London MarathonPublish date: 2009-04-23 17:29:27
Missed the Budget, saw why it matteredPublish date: 2009-04-22 23:09:31
Football good, politics bad. AllegedlyPublish date: 2009-04-22 00:00:24
The Great Wall gets greaterPublish date: 2009-04-21 09:55:22
Two sides to police storyPublish date: 2009-04-20 11:39:54
Budgets, Balls, billionaires and Susan BoylePublish date: 2009-04-19 12:31:45
Do muscles have memories?Publish date: 2009-04-18 09:44:44
Bring back standing at footballPublish date: 2009-04-17 14:50:22
When Facebook friends fall outPublish date: 2009-04-16 12:29:16
Guardian sightings and the email and bath plug agendaPublish date: 2009-04-15 11:32:16
The spin is all in the prismPublish date: 2009-04-14 09:22:41
A setback, not a crisisPublish date: 2009-04-13 12:55:19
The real lessons from Damian McBridePublish date: 2009-04-12 10:49:47
Will English always be the dominant language?Publish date: 2009-04-11 10:02:02
On the pipes and what makes a ScotPublish date: 2009-04-10 11:06:20
John Prescott lazy? NO WAYPublish date: 2009-04-09 09:11:31
David Frost is seventyPublish date: 2009-04-08 08:48:38
The Speaker, BBC2, tonight and tomorrow 8pmPublish date: 2009-04-07 14:25:31
Obama, colds and being woken by Korean missilesPublish date: 2009-04-06 11:59:24
When a call matters more than protocolPublish date: 2009-04-05 11:33:42
Green Cities Champions LeaguePublish date: 2009-04-04 10:19:53
Could Cameron have delivered the G20 deal?Publish date: 2009-04-03 10:11:59
Memo to Sarko - allez vite a LondresPublish date: 2009-04-01 08:46:17
Happy April Fool's DayPublish date: 2009-04-01 01:44:05
Eurostar, Le Monde and a thought for the G20 sherpasPublish date: 2009-03-31 09:17:22
Why Kevin Rudd made an impactPublish date: 2009-03-30 10:24:41
Pre-G20 hype matters less than post-G20 processPublish date: 2009-03-29 13:17:28
The Damned UnitedPublish date: 2009-03-28 10:37:04
A hobby horse, a plug and a bit of sportPublish date: 2009-03-27 10:22:23
Cloughie - he had a lot to be big-headed aboutPublish date: 2009-03-26 09:38:36
A sad sight of the old fearing the youngPublish date: 2009-03-25 17:03:07
Post-modern, post-structural, or bullshit?Publish date: 2009-03-25 08:18:02
Learning the right lessons from ObamaPublish date: 2009-03-24 08:53:15
Lazy Dave needs to keep an eye on lazy KenPublish date: 2009-03-23 11:16:14
Farewell favourite restaurant, hello hometownPublish date: 2009-03-22 08:18:09
Dave, Danny and have the Tories really changed?Publish date: 2009-03-21 08:55:13
Life beyond Dover ...Publish date: 2009-03-20 10:11:21
My friends in The New Statesman - Fergie, Fiona, Tony, Sarah, Kevin, 'Dacre,' and a great GB idea for the G20Publish date: 2009-03-18 10:38:22
Iraq, Iran, GB, Obama and diplomatic chessPublish date: 2009-03-17 10:07:13
The Age of StupidPublish date: 2009-03-16 08:27:13
Is all change good?Publish date: 2009-03-15 10:00:06
The pressure of being a post-modern sex godPublish date: 2009-03-14 10:00:55
Cameron still hasn't sealed the deal with businessPublish date: 2009-03-13 09:21:49
Stand up for social workersPublish date: 2009-03-12 08:31:17
Surely Malcolm Tucker could have told Armando Ianucci ... You can't spin a spinnerPublish date: 2009-03-11 10:58:25
Start of a new approach from Labour?Publish date: 2009-03-10 09:54:12
A peace process still strongPublish date: 2009-03-09 08:21:05
Day of destiny for the real footballer of the yearPublish date: 2009-03-08 09:21:06
Private advice to Peggy Mitchell - the leaked note in fullPublish date: 2009-03-07 08:17:21
Boris, the Tories and the tummy-tickling poodle pressPublish date: 2009-03-06 09:49:37
A day in the life of the self-obsessed TV reporterPublish date: 2009-03-05 07:55:47
GB - good speech, well deliveredPublish date: 2009-03-04 19:31:05
Notes on the environment, a role in EastEndersPublish date: 2009-03-04 10:58:56
She may be my 'wife' but it is time to rebut!Publish date: 2009-03-03 10:52:59
Some speeches matter more than othersPublish date: 2009-03-02 12:04:45
Mental health and the Carling Cup FinalPublish date: 2009-03-01 09:08:17
Inside the chocolate factoryPublish date: 2009-02-28 10:23:59
GB on the G20, JP on Jeremy KylePublish date: 2009-02-27 09:14:36
Charity and the credit crunch, please give generously!Publish date: 2009-02-26 08:55:12
Why oh why are the Tories not home and dry?Publish date: 2009-02-24 09:44:59
Me, Dermot and ten top songsPublish date: 2009-02-23 10:02:19
Names round-upPublish date: 2009-02-22 08:43:39
What's in a name?Publish date: 2009-02-21 09:58:14
Editing the New StatesmanPublish date: 2009-02-20 11:42:36
Salute Peter M’s proper use of the F wordPublish date: 2009-02-19 09:58:58
Labour's communications challenge for the NHSPublish date: 2009-02-18 10:34:39
In praise of KeighleyPublish date: 2009-02-17 14:33:57
A night at the EmiratesPublish date: 2009-02-17 00:06:51
When marriage is testedPublish date: 2009-02-16 13:36:35
Spare me the myths and the whiningPublish date: 2009-02-15 13:29:50
Dave Cameron - is that all there is?Publish date: 2009-02-14 11:11:55
Boris Johnson: F is for ...Publish date: 2009-02-13 07:55:10
The Cameron vacuumPublish date: 2009-02-12 14:48:33
Lincoln, Obama, Blair and the 24 hour media culturePublish date: 2009-02-11 10:28:47
Eighteen interviews later ...Publish date: 2009-02-10 19:24:45
Time to talk about Time to Change on NewsnightPublish date: 2009-02-09 22:47:49
So that’s what they mean by online community?Publish date: 2009-02-08 12:12:51
First blogPublish date: 2009-02-05 15:23:57
Felicity
2009-04-04 12:14:41I didn't hear you on France Culture, but I agree with John about your excellent accent - pity Fred Taddei gave you such a poor reception on Ce Soir ou Jamais on Wednesday night. At least you weren't ridiculed like Susan George and her bananas. The Benin banker and the economist seemed quite reasonable chaps but the poisonous "essayist" was unbelievably rude, and Taddei "the tie" (he always looks as if he's just been dragged out of the pub) let him get away with it. I couldn't believe my ears when Taddei patronised you with his comment about you speaking "the least good French of all of us". You acquitted yourself very well when they finally shut up and let you speak. Not sure anyone gathered you were there to promote your book, though. Bon courage!
AC
2009-04-03 16:24:04To respond to a few points made while I was away.
Paul - I can only go on what I saw on the TV, and from what I saw I felt the police made real efforts to police the protests without having to exercise to force or harsh tactics. I agree with Seth that the media are more likely to focus on scenes of confrontation but I saw plenty of police being provoked and put under threat. I think our police in general do a good job at policing large crowds.
Phil - keep watching, it is almost always like that. And have you noticed how the bulletins focus as much on their own reporters' questions as on the answers. When I was editing the New Statesman I loved Rachel Cooke's TV review and her observations on 'Peston in China - like he was the American President or something.'
Tom - now sign up your mates.
Sharon- sorry to hear about your situation. There is very little I can say on such limited knowledge and I can't take up that many cases, but I think you have done the right thing engaging your union and wish you well.
Liane- write speeches and sections and send them to politicians, business leaders or anyone else who might have an interest in making them. Give them ideas and suggestions. They may ignore you. They may not.
Emmiliana - not totally opposed, just sceptical and not keen on mob rule.
John - thanks for the compliments re the French. I has a great time. Did you hear the reviewer speaking of me in the same breath as Disraeli, Churchill and Hugo --- even I blushed.
Tony
2009-04-03 02:13:32I think that AC's (and others) distinction about the usefulness of protests with a specific message and those without is a valuable one.
Politicians operate within a fairly narrow band of policy that public finds acceptable, and it’s a rare politician or Party that can take the first step to leading the public’s hearts and minds in a new direction on their own. Good, effective public campaigning provides the social/political space for Governments to take action and change to occur.
An angry mob with a range of grievances doesn’t really add anything useful to the sphere of public discussion. If there’s no clear demand, there’s no clear resolution.
A good example of effective public protest is the ‘Your Rights at Work’ campaign run by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU) against the industrial relations legislation of former Conservative Government in Australia. They had a very clear demand, a demonstrated public following.
They created a space for the then Opposition to fill, and consequently forced the Government of the day to significantly modify some of the worst elements of the legislation. In the end, the campaign meant the issue was the most significant policy element at the next election, and was a major contributor to the change of Government.
As someone who works in politics, nothing annoys me more than public campaigners who think that stirring up indignation is somehow going to bring about change. If you want change, you need to show a sustained demand for a specific change, not just anger at the way things are.
Like Arrested Development told us:
"Does shouting bring about change? I doubt it
All shouting does is make you lose your voice."
paulcanning
2009-04-03 00:49:55Something about you referencing Benn makes me ... nostalgic :] loving being heretical.
Enough of me ...
Yes you are right about unfocused protesters but the climate change ones were, weren't they?
Didn't you find their policing disturbing? Seriously. It would count for something if someone like you commented on the policing of *peaceful protest like what happened to the climate camp in Broadgate yesterday.
Phil Woolley
2009-04-03 00:41:32Would like to comment on the BBC coverage of the G20, particularly the press conferences with Obama. Have to say that I was always slightly perplexed at your (AC's) clear lack of regard for Nick Robinson, but thought the question he put at the Brown Obama press conference was a joke and frankly embarrassing, not focused on the challenges ahead but seeking to get up division and provoke negative comment. Same with Justin Webb this evening, after the agreement of an historic deal "if you had to highlight one thing you didn't get, what would it be?" - followed by the comment it took him a long time to answer. No wonder.
Tom
2009-04-02 23:09:24Hey Alastair, you asked if there were any 16-18 teenagers that supported any of the 3 main parties due to the growing consensus that the youth are becoming disillusioned with politics. Well, I am 16 and i support the Labour party and although i am not too politically active, i do take a great deal of interest in politics. And i think your right in that a lot of my friends are also interested by politics. So the idea that teenagers aren't concerned with politics is not exactly the case as you quite rightly say.
Sharon Fisher
2009-04-02 19:57:23I had an acute reaction to stress on 05/03/07 which was caused by the enormous workload I had and even although I asked for help at work this did not happen. I eventually collapsed at work and was hospitalised for 5 days. I had a high pressure job but since my collapse I am now unemployed. I have been seeking to take out a civil action against my employer with the help of my Union but have found this very very difficult. I would welcome any help Alistair Campbell could give me. I am not the same person I was and lead a very simple life now and cannot cope with any pressures in life.
Alina Palimaru
2009-04-02 17:33:56I just picked up one the comment below regarding women's votes movement. Hmmm, let's see, most women, especially in the US, were granted the right to vote (through a constitutional amendment) in 1918. Actually, lawmakers were favourably disposed to granting them this right in the lead-up to the war, but it only materialized in 1918 because of the lengthy legislative process. The reason they changed their mind around 1914 was because they realized they'd need women to take part in the war effort and shore up domestic production, and what better way to reward (or entice) them than the right to vote. So again, protests may have stirred something, but it's all political in the end.
Emilianna
2009-04-02 17:10:48Non sequitur:
I've sent them a message but I'd like to post this here as well...The ethics of a government website requiring its users to install proprietary software is dubious enough to begin with, Number10.gov.uk should at least pick software that's compatible for Linux and Mac users.
Liane Hartley
2009-04-02 15:00:00Hello Alastair, welcome back to British soil! When waiting for a lift on the top floor of our building my colleague kept pressing the button manically as if it was going to make the lift go any faster; of course it didn't. When informed by another colleague that pressing the button wasn't going to make any difference he replied "maybe not but I feel like I am participating!" I loved that, it's true too, you feel better for just doing something even if it may not make a direct difference. This is powerful and tangible. If we feel positive about an action we are more likely to expect a positive outcome or, indeed, demand one? The G20 protests may not lead to a direct casusal change but surely being in a democracy is not just about how leaders lead but also about the populace behave and seek leadership too? I'd be more upset and worried if people had not taken to the streets -why has it taken so long? - it is healthy affirmation that we are not dead from the neck down and we aren't abdicating responsibility for our conuntry to our politicians alone? Being in a democracy means we have a right, but more imoportantly, a responsibility - to participate. If we don't we have no right to moan about it! On another matter - I'd really like to become a speechwriter and thought you would have some useful advice or pointers....point me! Thanks, Liane
Alina Palimaru
2009-04-02 14:32:05I agree that street demonstrations are integral to the democratic process, insofar as they allow people to aggregate and articulate their views, but AC is right to point to the "lack of clarity about objectives," which renders these demonstrations useless in the grand scheme of things (or in policy-making). That is tantamount to trying to find a solution without knowing exactly what the problem is.
Some historians go as far as to assert that Machiavelli's Prince has now been substituted by the mob, which manifests in their a formidable power that channels the crowd's multiplicity of wishes into something concrete. That is an overstatement in my judgment. Of course there is historical precedent for crowds effecting change (i.e. revolutions, and I owe my life to one such crowd). But in democratic structures, mob movements rarely resulted in solid, long-term arrangements that benefited a majority of people. Angry crowds oscillate between extremes, switching from "long live..." to "down with..." in the blink of an eye, and almost never take a more reasonable, middle-ground approach. Again, Obama was very wise to caution against making decisions and governing "out of anger".
Emilianna
2009-04-02 14:23:11With respect, I wish you'd just come out and say outright that you are against street protests. I can't imagine it's something people in government ever feel comfortable with.
Clarity-wise, any single issue protest would be counter-intuitive as all progressive issues are linked, i. e. the environment is linked to growth and poverty and genocide. Protesters would do their causes a disservice by dumbing down their message for the sake of providing media-friendly sound bites.
I agree with the little effect protests have on politicians but it's one, if pathetic, of the only powers mere mortals have in the face of the political and business classes. Let's not overstate the power of a voter in a democracy. People are angry because they are paying dearly for an economic collapse created by unparalleled greed and deregulation.
And yes, Labour needed to change to win elections; that doesn't mean Tony Benn is less of a god. I love that man!
john akroyd
2009-04-02 13:39:58Good afternoon Mr Campbell,
Driving in Western France this morning I heard a pundit on France Culture (French radio station) speaking about Tony Blair. He had the most beautiful (and enviable) French accent... I nearly crashed the car when I discovered it was you!
From what I could discern, I still didn't agree with a word you were saying, but loved how you were saying it!
Alan Quinn
2009-04-02 11:27:16Most of those loons involved in the violent protests will probably end up being bankers and financiers when they grow up and return to being middle class.
Neil Scott
2009-04-02 09:41:51interesting. First time someone who was in Govt has admitted the whole Bono/Geldoff/Blair thing was planned. Of course, beyond the managing of protest by the Blair/musos "to strengthen the British hand" - this ensured the right wing media were able to play the "protest didn't make any difference the last time, so why bother?" card. Having walked the route in Edinburgh hemmed in by huge barricades and with police snipers glaring down on us, some of us feel managed protest is not the way. Well done to T Benn et al at yesterdays demo... and well done those who have shown that the police MANAGED the bank "attack" by hemming protestors in AT the bank for hours before the frustrations bubbled over.
Seth Jacobson
2009-04-02 09:37:04Would be interested to know if you feel whether protesters suffer in the same way as politicians from the same preoccupations of the modern media for an 'angle', usually one that has been decided long in advance in an editorial discussion often in W8. The story that the Standard decided would be the one of yesterday's protests was confrontation and violence. Lo and behold, they got what they wanted.
Duncan
2009-04-02 09:25:57I take your point Alistair, but I think Tony makes his not through romanticism but realism: that despite 50 years in Parliament, he couldn't make the changes he wanted to make without popular and public protest. Not because he didn't have power - he was a Cabinet Minister for many years - but because politicians are very hamstrung by other aspects of the system, and can do nothing alone. So it wasn't either TB who got rid of the poll tax, it was people rioting on the streets. The Strangeways riots brought prison reforms. I'm not advocating rioting - it is hugely unfortunate that governments - historically - respond much more to violent protest than to peaceful.
Votes for women were won by protest. Of course there were political leaders who supported those protests, but they were few and far between and would have achieved nothing without the protests. The anti-apartheid movement too. Another of Tony's favourite sayings is that when you first suggest a radical idea you're called 'mad', then 'dangerous' and then everybody claims to have come up with the idea before you did. And when the likes of Ken Livingstone were saying that the only way to bring peace to Northern Ireland was to include Sinn Fein in political talks back in the 80s, there were plenty who called him mad and dangerous. Of course, by the time it is clear that a change will happen, almost every political leader you can find is fully on board. I'm not sure you could say the same earlier in these processes.
But I won't say too much about Northern Ireland because - alongside comprehensive education - it's probably about the only thing I'm likely to mostly agree with you on (being one of those 'unreconstructed' Bennites who you think would have destroyed our party...
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