Save Government from silly departments, David Cameron

Cameron reshape anything ??
Cameron will do the same as he has done all his natural life.

Get someone else to make the decision for him !

He will ask Sammy, Sammy’s Mammy, Daddy, or some member of his extended family who have, so far, removed all the grease from the pole so as not to leave little David floundering at the bottom where he would be if left to his own devices !!

“The Detr, or Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. Basically a ministry created to give John Prescott something to do.”

Well to be fair to Bliar, which is more than he deserves (but then so are his nouveaux riches), what would you do with PiesRUs Prescott?

I think a competition would be instructive – “101 Uses For A Prescott”, answers on a Ginsters order form.

Oh I say, waiter!!…WAITER!!!! WAAITTTERRR !!!!!!

David Dee
You sad little man. I am confident that one day you will post something enlightening on this messageboard

deejay830 – I am afraid your confidence would be sadly misplaced then.

Dee-Dumb – class hatred is such an unattractive, self-defeating, corrosive, and outmoded concept, you must get through Rennies at a rate.

Sad little man indeed.

Deejay830: ‘You sad little man’

It’s nice to see people improve. One out of three is not toooo bad for you.

Now what exactly is your gripe about Cameron’s Nepotistic existence ??

Bulimia must be catching.

Every timed someone mentions that rude thug I feel like throwing up………

Sorry folks but– DEFRA needs a shake up- back to MAFF perhaps- Natural England is far too large and unwieldy–
PROSAC is another one – Communities sounds like a once a week visit into the bush to see if they have stopped eating each other!

They all want to be chiefs!

I fear Cameron will not be willing to rock the boat because, just like Brown, he believes government is a good thing, in and of itself. The only change we will see under a Cameron government would be the letterhead.

Thatcher aspired to rolling back the frontiers of the state but, despite all the rhetoric from the left about “swingeing cuts” the state was bigger in 1989 than it was in ‘79. All she managed to achieve was to slow the rate of expansion (for which some credit is due). Cameron doesn’t even aspire to reduce the size of the state, and he is ambivalent about whether he really wants to slow its rate of growth. I would be disappointed but not shocked to see it accelerate!

DD: I come from a working class background but escaped, thanks to a grammar school education. Having mixed with people from all walks of life and many countries I have come to the conclusion that the English “working” class are the most unpleasantly snobbish group of people on earth. There are a million things for which David Cameron may be legitimately criticised. The fact he had wealthy parents is not one of them. Did you inherit your chip or did you grow it yourself?

A universal solution will be at our doorsteps in the near future, so don’t fret. By this time next year you won’t have to worry about much of anything thanks to our friends at the Transform Drug Policy Foundation (TDPF) as our NuLabour government with the help of the Socialists and some freaks from the fringes will make available for public consumption massive quantities of Valium and other benzodiazepines, oxycodone, hydrocodone, MDMA and other drugs (including synthetic opiates) for personal use at low prices with little if any meddlesome supervision.

So when anyone in your home or office opens their mouths to possibly complain, you can grab a handful of pills from a bowl and have them down the potion right there in front of you. Life will be better with chemicals. Here is a page from the NuLabour/TDPF catalogue for the upcoming 2009 Drug Collection: http://www.drugabuse.gov/DrugPag...

MarkE: ‘The fact he had wealthy parents is not one of them’

I have nothing against people being born into wealthy families. In fact some of my best friends are……..

My complaint is when people from a wealthy family use this in order to either advance themselves or be advanced because of it, to the detriment of other from less wealthy backgrounds.
This is true of Cameron. He has got to where is simply by virtue of having a wealthy family.

This man has been gifted jobs in every organisation he has ever ventured into either on the say so of Sammy’s Mammy, Daddy or some of his other friends in high places.
He is a wastrel. Always has and always will be !

Pull the other one – it’s got bells on.

“I have nothing against people being born into wealthy families. In fact some of my best friends are…….”.

What hogwash:-

“My complaint is when people from a wealthy family use this in order to either advance themselves or be advanced because of it, to the detriment of other from less wealthy backgrounds.”

WHAT ON EARTH USE IS WEALTH IF IT IS NOT BE USED TO ADVANCE YOURSELF OR YOUR CHILDREN??? How many meals can a rich man eat, must he stay in the council house he grew up in? According to ZNL he musn’t even use his wealth to secure a better education for his children, unless of course your name is Blair, Benn, Harpic, Woodward, Abbott….
Should one accumulate wealth simply for the pleasure of giving it to HMRC to waste?

Really your arguments are beyond puerile, and this bit is hilarious:-

“This is true of Cameron. He has got to where is simply by virtue of having a wealthy family….This man has been gifted jobs in every organisation he has ever ventured into”.

Really – then he is doing pretty well at this one, and he has had more exposure to the real world than all the party hacks who owe their exalted status to preferment rather than ability.

Bean
Milipede
Strawman
Gorbals,
Harpic
Dromey
Cooper/Balls
Blears
Smith
Jowells
Hewitt
Flint
Prescott
Alexanders x2

Why go on – you know perfectlty well that you are standing inside you own glasshouse throwing stones. Idiot.

Now calm down cyclicrate, you’re beginning to sound like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss and you’re making me laugh when I’m supposed to be doing something else.

Could someone please tell me how to change text colours, not that I have anything against black…

Sheumais, good afternoon – apologies! Mrs Trellis is the resident techno-whizz, ask her nicely and she will show you. I am so hamfisted at this there’s no way I could do it.

MarkE, there appears to be something wrong with the blog. I have just responded to your comments and got an answer from a Gido Faux escapee. From the looks of it there has already been a fair amount of Cobra consumed.

Hallo Dee Dee,

Hear me now, sweatheart. Gone are the days when you could buy in so to speak. Years ago it was who you knew, but everything is done on merit now, you know that really don’t you?

We all try to give our children the best education and worthwile parenting and our values- now whether they adhere to them is a different matter.

I think the driver for politics or medicine or research or what ever you do in life, is the urge to put something back in to society and to enable those not so fortunate to recieve an education and to make them understand that only by hard work and by adhering to the protestant work ethic that they will be able to hold their head up high and count their blessings.

I may be wrong.

Actually, I suppose it should be SHEUMAIS !!

we’ve already found something to do with adolphlufus of course, as the fule no (his preferred sps)

. . . but no doubt action as the Prezza stool is a sensible alternative . . .

I think you’re being a little unfair Dee. Half the people in life working in say journalism have got their jobs, not specifically because they were better than other people, but because of who they know. Journalism is a case in point. It is not unusual for people to get into companies or whatever other industry through friends. How well they perform after that though is another matter.

In fairness i’m not an expert on Cameron’s educational or employment record, and i’d hazzard a guess that neither are you.

The guy achieved a 1st from Oxford in PPE, which is not exactly unimpressive and so be say that he always was and always will be a waster is really just purile sniping.

As I enjoy big brains? — I would be more impressed by the fact that DC had had a double 1st from Oxford, but he hasn’t– (No scientic background), not a talk talk out of your behind degree. Different calibre all together, the country is littered with them, so much so you do not know which party they support, because they morph once they are in Westminster!
I am sorry to sound rude, but his disciplines don’t impress me much.

NmCAV: ‘In fairness i’m not an expert on Cameron’s educational or employment record, and i’d hazzard a guess that neither are you’

I probably know more than most are willing to say.
I can say that Cameron has NEVER had to apply (in the real sense of the Word) for jobs in ANY of the organisations that he has graced with his presence. He got them all by some intervention (some slighty unsavouy) from his immediate and extended family.

Regarding his education. At an age when Gordon was being accepted for Uni Cameron was being reprimanded for partaking of illegal substances. That, in itself is fairly common, what is not common is that he escaped expulsion which was the normal penalty for such an offence.
Cameron was also caught out ‘exaggerating his qualifications to gain entry to Oxford. Again that is not uncommon but what is, is that the normal reaction to this would be to reject the applicant. Cameron, possibly because of his good looks !!) avoided this.

The man has had a very charmed life indeed.

Very saDDoe

As someone asked Boreon earlier, “were you born with those chips on your shoulders, or did you have to grow them?”

Who cares, Cameron’ll be a million times better than any of the money-grubbing dross in ZNL, and that fact has been PROVEN.

David Dee, you really do sound like a child in a playground who cannot get the ball to play with. Enough with the “Sammy’s Mammy” rubbish! David Cameron is still quite young and will mature very well into his role. But from what I have seen so far, his ideas and determination are worthwhile. And, thank God, he isn’t spouting socialist tripe!

Dear Dee Dee, not showing off.

You have a very good point though, and have seen that first hand in a very important interview that I was lucky enough to sit and witness, and the huge ramifications that emerged 2/3 years later– I said , I told you so!

Sandi, I suppose that you think that Cameron also is from ‘a Hard working family’

True belle, thank you. Sometimes I despair but then I remember that I am on a DT blog where most ‘are out for what they can get regardless of how they get it’ (I had better stop I have just quoted one of Phil kean’s ‘Principles’.

Is Cameron practicing his George Bush face or what?

Stall your prejudices for a minute, there is plenty in common with Cameron and Blair other than neither are fit to govern me and everyone else in this favored land. Blair we know by experience but with Cameron, Mr David Dee has a point. Cameron’s career CV is not very impressive for a guy already in his 40s. Let’s start the weekend with fairness in our minds and the hope that Cameron will be set aside for some real political talent that the Bory Party has in reserve before too long.

ZNL tried this class war, rich toffs c**p in the Dunwoody horror’s bye-elction. That the Tory candidate’s family had made their money by hard work, and the ZNL candidate was standing on a nepotism ticket cut no ice with these luddite redistributionists. Luckily the electorate there, and in Glasgow, were a bit brighter than ZNL strategists gave them credit for.

The appallingly chip-on-the-shoulder Dee and his ideas are way past their sell by date.

‘c’ – I’ve just seen that bulimic outpouring of venom from the sad one over on the Gordon Brown / Silence blog earlier today. It’s astonishing – he truly lost it big-time. But I’m not going to reply on that blog now, because his rant deserves to be left in all its glory for others to see.

However, it has revealed very clearly two things about him (her?). Firstly s/he predominantly posts comments which are simply nasty about people, usually rooted in jealousy. So, for example, Cameron is bad-mouthed (above) because he was born into a wealthy family and has been successful in life, some of it down to good fortune it seems; then Guido – arguably one of the most successful political bloggers in the UK at present – is attacked because, it seems, he has an alcoholism illness and has been caught OPL on four occasions. I’m not defending drink-drive, but to embark on a character assassination because of it is totally out of proportion. This also fits with the pattern of character assassinations of Phil Kean as an ‘unprincipled’ man, and these abusive posts by saDDo are becoming more and more hostile by the day.

Secondly, s/he has such poor judgement and little self-control. S/he is unable to make independent rational judgements – hence the need for the constant re-assurance and encouragement from Q – and is unable to respond appropriately to other people’s comments. In fact, s/he doesn’t seem able to read emotions or understand the context of relationships or groups. Isn’t this one of the symptoms of Aspergers?

Do you think it was the word ‘smug‘ or ‘commentraitor‘ that finally tipped saDDo over the edge?

Mrs T

‘…is unable to respond appropriately to other people’s comments. In fact, s/he doesn’t seem able to read emotions or understand the context of relationships or groups.’

A classic lack of ‘emotional intelligence’. Michael Portillo did a piece on the subject with reference to Gordon Brown round about Christmas time. He obviously had the advantage of having seen Brown up close failing to read social cues and clues.

It is funny that the individuals that you are speaking of forget a) who they have insulted carelessly in the past, and b) what particular individuals have actually said.

This all makes for a hilarious stew. They are like drunken muggers. Unprovoked attackers who aren’t quite up to the job. Hilarious.

Mrs T – well done. I think it was a combination of your mots juste, and the fact that the tables have altogether been turned on the ZNL crew; with the able assistance of Phil Kean, pondy, David in Rome, David Morrison and others, they are no longer able to get away with their reckless bulldozering of their opponents off the field. I found this very telling:-

” I, for one,will be glad when….we can have our forum back.” D. Dee 1/8/2008

Well, those days are over, and differing points of view WILL be heard here, and will NOT be suppressed by he and his assistants’ relentless personal attacks.

Pondy puts it perfectly:- “Unprovoked attackers who aren’t quite up to the job. Hilarious.” Indeed.

pondy & ‘c’ & David in Rome & Phil & TB & all other friends: slowly but surely there seem to be more and more intelligent postings returning to these blogs and fewer spoilers.

It is a real joy to read what others genuinely think and believe – a different perspective or slant on an issue sometimes – or a personal experience, perhaps, that has revealed something new.

More power to all your keyboards!

Mrs. Trellis, you do say the funniest things.

Gido – arguably one of the most successful political bloggers in the UK at present – but not between the curfewed hours of 9pm – 6am

Cameron – Cameron is bad-mouthed (above) because he
was born into a wealthy family and has been successful in life, – all of it down to his wealthy family

character assassinations of Phil Kean as an ‘unprincipled’ man, – You cannot assassinate what is not there !!!

THE COWARDLY DEE CRAWLS BACK OUT OF THE WOODWORK LIKE THE COCKROACH HE IS:-

“Cameron – Cameron is bad-mouthed (above) because he
was born into a wealthy family and has been successful in life, – all of it down to his wealthy family”

Well, why don’t we have him shot? – it IS the Stasi way after all.

What a crock, you pathetic, jaundiced, sad little creep.

Pondy; ‘Mrs T…is unable to respond appropriately to other people’s comments. In fact, s/he doesn’t seem able to read emotions or understand the context of relationships or groups.’

I get that feeling every now and then but do not blame Mrs. T entirely. She has been seduced by the Purvryor of filth, you know. She is now even frequenting Gido’s but only in the daylight hours when it is open !!

Get a life DumDumb

David Dee August 02, 2008 12:30 AM GMT

Can’t you see that you are just proving Mrs Trellis’ point?

Mrs. Trellis: ‘he has an alcoholism illness’

Just for neatness, as I recall I did not say anybody was an alcoholic. I believe you actually made that connection.

I merely posted the court report as follows:

“A political blogger must wear an electronic tag for three months after admitting drink-driving. Paul Staines, AKA Guido Fawkes of Westminster blog Order-Order, narrowly escaped jail. The 41-year-old must instead stay indoors between 9pm and 6am until August. Staines admitted drink-driving and driving without insurance in his wife’s VW Golf last month. Tower Bridge Magistrates’ Court heard Staines was stopped in Vauxhall, South London, in the early hours of April 17 after police saw he “seemed to be have difficulty staying in a straight line.” The prosecutor said when stopped officers saw his “eyes were bloodshot, he strongly smelt of alcohol and his pupils appeared to be dilated.” His breath had 58 microgrammes of alcohol in it and he told police he had been drinking Cobra beer in an Indian restaurant. It is his fourth alcohol-related offence and second drink-driving reprimand – he was banned for 12 months in 2002. Staines, dressed in a cream suit and City trader-type shirt, told the court he worked in advertising. After reading Staines’ probation report District Judge Timothy Stone told him: “You can’t help yourself can you? You drink four bottles of wine a week for a start. You lack the insight to realise when you are a danger to other people. Do you realise what a danger you are to the public?” “I do realise” Staines replied. Judge Stone added: “I take the view that you do have an alcohol problem.. You are fortunate not to be going to prison today.”

Now as far as your feigned indignation and falsified anger go there follows some comment, just from today either made by you or ones you agreed with (if not I will be happy for you to point out the ones you don’t agree with !!):

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so one wonders whether Testes had a childhood accident like the Bean. I like your reference to her HIPs, but have you noticed, she seems to be built back to front?

Well I think he was probably not included because he is a skin-headed alcoholic Glaswegian thug*, who is not only unpopular in the country as a whole, but even more hated in his party – and has failed dismally at every job he has had, though that would not normally be bar to advancement in ZNL.

He is a destroyer, who has never had a proper job in the real world and his only educational qualifications are in the history of his self-serving party.

in the land of the blind the one-eyed Gorgon is party leader……

Now lets have it again: What should people who live in glasshouses not do ???

David in Rome; ‘Can’t you see that you are just proving Mrs Trellis’ point?’

I think that it is becoming evident that you should get out a bit more. Have you tried getting a life, you might actually enjoy …….. oh, forget it !

David – all joking aside, I am worried that you have lost touch with reality, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. You must get out more, and enjoy life.
Here it is, Friday night, and this is the best you can manage. Follow the Bean’s example, take a holiday, call your little friend, get your buckets and spades, and head for Southwold – you know it makes sense.
Then you will be nice and fresh when you come back for your next demolition at the hands of Mrs Trellis.

LOL.

Great Posting Dave!

You seem to be up to hard work, I guess you are used to it?

Makes relaxation & etc so much more fun.

poor old adolphluffus doesn’t understand, and how tedious his boringest abuse is, he really doesn’t get it.

Something tells me that Gordon Brown & co will be saving the UK from a surfeit of Departments of Silly Old Etonian Wonks . . .

David Dee August 02, 2008 01:20 AM GMT

David, how about a reasoned argument on this point rather than assertions that I should get a life – when I already have – away from Blair-Brown and New (old) Labour spin. I live in a country with a right wing government undoing the mess of just 3 years of socialism – and that’s bad enough.

Baron Laurence de Qu… August 02, 2008 08:03 AM GMT

“Something tells me that Gordon Brown & co will be saving the UK from a surfeit of Departments of Silly Old Etonian Wonks . . .”

Those voices you hear?

BTW the words ‘Saving’ and ‘Gordon Brown’ don’t go together – what you need is ‘Spending’ or ‘Wasting’

David in Rome , what peeves me about people like you is that you become extremely self-righteous about comments, all fully supported, that I may make about members of the Tory Party, but you normally seem to lose you voice when the criticism, totally unfounded, is coming the other way.
May be I am wrong, so I would ask your opinion on the following:
Recently I have seen it implied, on this forum, by Tory supporters:
that Gordon Brown is a closet homosexual
That Gordon Brown is mentally ill
That his wife is a ‘beard’
and one contributor whose political views are supported by many Tory supporters actually implied that Gordon Brown was a paedophile.
Another commentor rued the fact that Gordon Brown had lost then sight in only one eye and treated us to the following:
I would like to boot Brown’s head repeatedly until his glass eye pops out. Then I would like to saw of his head and take a dump down his neck

——————————————

Now your opinion, so far completely stunted on this sort of attack, would be greatly appreciated, if only to see how open-minded you might be !!

David in Rome, things must be bad if Berlusconi’s the solution.

I have many problems with David Cameron, not least that he’s never changed my first impression. As with Blair and Obama, I merely see someone who fancies the job, rather than someone who believes they can improve the lives of others. It’s not the lack of substantial policies, as we can see what happens every time they announce one, but the lack of substance in the man. I would happily tell Cameron exactly where he can stick his green issues, as they are of little import in themselves to a country suddenly wakening-up to the reality of simple supply and demand economics. In this regard, even Brown leaves Cameron in the dust, as I genuinely believe Brown has good intentions and the belief that he has something to offer, even if he’s proved himself entirely wrong and utterly incapable.

For those who claim Brown’s record in the chancellor’s office is one to be celebrated, you should consider the future as well as the past, because Brown never did. For those unconvinced either way, ask yourself why it is Brown’s supporters have to keep telling everyone how intelligent he is. One possible explanation is that it is not evident from the man’s public performance or record.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the country has decided it’s time to change the government and it’s nothing to do with mid-term blues. There is also no doubt that Cameron’s relative popularity is wholly attributable to the country’s shunning the government. Any policy announcement from Cameron’s team (before a pale imitation is proposed by the government) must be explained by a third party, as the point is lost through either a confused delivery or a lack of conviction in the deliverer. It is not convincing and neither is it convincing to start pointing-out faults in your opponents after they’ve become apparent to everyone else. If Cameron and his party were worthy of support, the government under Blair would have been in trouble a long, long time ago. They aren’t, it wasn’t and Cameron is unworthy of the office of Prime Minister.

David Dee, Gordon Brown does display symptoms of Aspergers Syndrome. That is not a criticism, merely an observation.

Sheumais:’That is not a criticism, merely an observation’

had you prefaced your ‘observation’ with some condemnation of the other totally disgusting remarks abour Gordon and his wife I might have been more open to your ‘observation’!!

Sheumais, are those symptoms not also symptoms of other conditions, including just being himself?

You have claimed to be 20st or thereabouts, what is that a symptom of?

Adolphluffus did reach a new record yesterday . .

“differing points of view WILL be heard here” ROFLMAO

from someone who has worn out so many keyboards (or is he employed by someone else to write? and they get sacked from time to time? There do seem to be too many inconsistencies . . . ) that takes a bucket of broken biscuits . . .

He has driven away more newbies he didn’t like the first comment of than his master could shake a stick at . . .

And threatened to get more people banned, than anyone else. He even plays at setting deadlines in forlorn attempts to obtain apologies.

He is a cream puff.

David Dee, I have no interest in commenting upon the other remarks and strongly advise you to grow up.

“You have claimed to be 20st or thereabouts”

I have done no such thing, so what does that make your remark?

Quietzapple and David Dee, what exactly do you think you’re achieving by posting your remarks? You’re not providing any reason to support Brown. You’re not making any positive contributions to any discussion, even though you have proved able to do so in the past. You’re not making anyone’s life any more pleasant, including, I suspect, your own, so why do you do it?

Sheumais, you said you were 20st or so a fair while back, when you said that you had no reason to carry a gun, remember?

I’ve never been 20 stone Q. 16.5’s my couch weight and that’s because this globally warmed summer’s so rubbish my bike’s not turning a wheel..

I have 20 – 18 st in my mind, as 20st came first I posted that.

My apologies if I have overinflated you.

However the point is relevant, your weight could be taken to be a symptom of diabetes perhaps?

This stuff you were repeating is old hat, and my point is sound.

It is known that Gordon Brown is often charming and sociable, principally in private. He is consulted by foreign leaders, because the UK’s economic record is admired in many places.

My bicycle has got lazy too. A friend in France who just turned 60 just won a bronze in a mountain climb . . .

David Dee August 02, 2008 08:36 AM GMT

Am I getting to you? “People like me”? Unpeeve yourself. I’m infuriating tolerant and understanding, even perhaps self-righteous, sorry that’s me.

It would be fruitless for me to say who had initiated the flame wars: you say your comments are fully supported, I’m sure the others would genuinely think otherwise. It does seem to me as if they can’t be bothered to argue with you anymore (IHT an example of an argument done to death) – which is a pity – it takes two to tango but you seem to be doing a pogo in the corner.

“May be I am wrong, so I would ask your opinion on the following:…
..Now your opinion, so far completely stunted on this sort of attack, would be greatly appreciated, if only to see how open-minded you might be !!”

Simple: The opinions as you report them are odious and I hope even in a moment of rage they would not pass my lips.

On another front, these OTT posts seem to have reduced, but you continually refer back to them as if you were stamp collecting all the put downs you have received. It ain’t necessary, they are just words, words of fury sure, perhaps designed to rile you – but, I repeat, why take the bait?

“My apologies if I have overinflated you.”

My overinflation is entirely self-inflicted, even if not quite to the extent you remember. If this weather keeps up, I might get there yet.

It’s a family inheritance reflex to seek the negative, but, even when fighting against that inclination occasionally, I do suspect anyone (politicians) telling me I must believe something that is patently untrue. Without rambling-on at length, again, I do not doubt Brown’s academic ability, but that is far from the same as the intelligence required to lead a country. He is a complex character, there’s no doubting that, but I don’t think he’s got any qualities suitable for the role of Prime Minister and those around him, with their own interests in mind, are not convincing when they try to portray him as something he isn’t.

Sheumais: ‘I have no interest in commenting upon the other remarks and strongly advise you to grow up’

Thank you for your ‘adult’ response. I think that I would be right in my assessment that that is something that you wanted to get off your chest !! Well, well done you !!

However, your advice as to my height will be treated with the same distain as your remark about Gordon.

The fact that you wish to give tacit support to the disgusting comments made about Gordon and his family leaves me in no doubt as to which of us has actually grown-up !!

“A friend in France who just turned 60 just won a bronze in a mountain climb . . .”

I watched the ever-excellent Tour de France coverage on ITV and still harbour the ambition to cover some of the mountain passes. I’ll weight until I’ve got my motorcycle licence though…

Oh David, David, a tantrum doesn’t improve things.

Qz: ‘Great Posting Dave!’

Thank you for that. However I am a little worried. The purveyor of filth now wants to be ’serious’.

That POF could spell the word is utterly amazing and has me wondering how he/she would cope with a word like decency.
Still it is nice to know that they surely don’t like it up them, as they say.

Must dash. Popping over to Drunk-Disorder.com before curfew !!

Sheumais makes a pretty valid point.

There is a pattern here, which after a very short time is easy to pick up. There are some posters who see it as a ‘duty’ to shoot down anyone who has an opinion that diverges in any way from the Labour HQ line. Hazel Tree had the same remit. Funny that.

The problem of course is that this type of ‘flaming’ tends to make instant enemies and only encourages a kind of united front by the rest of the more…what I can only call, civilised.

Sheumais, as you may or may not have observed, has shown a healthy scepticism towards all Political Parties – he has steered a middle road, discussing things with an open mind. He is, you might imagine, someone who they should try to persuade. But no.

This is the kind of own goal that seems typical of New Labour: not listening to people, patronising them, telling them what to think, insulting them with bogus stats…and finally just getting their backs up with cheap and lazy one-liners.

I never thought I’d see the day when Tories and Scots Nats would have common cause but these bozos have managed it. What was it about ‘emotional intelligence’ again? Ah, yes: they don’t have any.

If any New Labour strategists are looking on in horror at their car crash postings then it is time to say so. This only fans the flames of discontent and rallies the opposition.

“The purveyor of filth now wants to be ’serious’.”

Well, why not indulge them?

Efficient Tory Government
——————————–

For that is Tory philosophy.

Government to govern, not to control, as we’ve sadly been subject to under eleven years of dictatorial Labour.

Like Cameron’s policy of working towards a low tax Britain, re-organisation of government departments will be a priority in the Conservative’s quest to reduce the overall the size & cost of government.

There almost seems to be buzz of expectation as we approach a new dawn of Conservative administration.
I just hope people realise that the incoming Tory administration will not be able to deliver all that is hoped for straight away.

Much damage has been done during Labour’s disastrous tenure, undoing it will take much effort, expense and commitment.
.

Sheumais, Adolphus’ slanders, lies and usually unamusing abuse have been wearisome for a long time.

I think a prolonged period of silence, or well laid out truthful statements might be very overdue. But so extremely unlikely . . .

buzz of expectation?

hearing aid or electric fence malfunction I suppose . . .

did you get the link to check out “persiflage” Phil?

dictionary.reference.com/…

As you may have noticed Q, I dion’t visit as often as I used to. Is Adolphus cyclicrate, who used to be 45govt and Mt T’s Hazel Tree?

Sorry, Mr T, not Mt T.

Yes, “c” as Trellis sometimes calls him (irony?) has claimed that both his ids disappeared when the Dully Tele brought in the new systems.

Hazel used the Mr Trellis id before the change of course, and some amusing ones which didn’t dissemble at all. eg Doddy.

The cause for my id changes are explained in my “About Me,” you seem to have fathomed that I have not changed.

Sheumais-

Rt on!
Listen now, stop rolling around- you do not have to justify anything- your crumble factor is showing.

Keeping off the yummies is difficult, especially when you are agitated. Don’t cavil or be tearful either okay?

I appreciate that TB, but life’s miserable enough sometimes without trying to shout at people on the internet. In saying that, despite the forecast thunderstorm, I’m going quad biking (yes, a reinforced one Q), so have a fantastic weekend everyone.

David Dee August 02, 2008 08:36 AM GMT

This silly system puts posts in order of when you started writing them and not when you actually posted them, so if you go for a cup of Q’s excellent Lavazza in the middle, your posts end up about two pages back, as has indeed happened to my detailed reply to your being peeved with people like me.

Q, thanks for the link

Referring to the blog subject only, I wanted to remind people about the Tory principle of less government, but done more efficiently.

Money needs to be saved, as we all know.
I’m sure that it will be attractive to people to know that Conservative philosphy is to govern, not to control.

I said in Rosa’s blog, (I think) I believe Labour’s dictatorial style was the final straw for the electorate.
I think people might have given Labour another chance on the economy, from what I hear.

However, the dictatorial style of imposing unpopular laws and taxes, plus the constitution lie of course, all of it against voter will, has turned the electorate against them in a big way, and they now intend to remove Labour at any cost.
.

Sheumais August 02, 2008 08:44 AM GMT

“… things must be bad if Berlusconi’s the solution.”

Things are bad but getting better. All the extreme left and extreme right parties are out of parliament and for the first time there is a pretty coherent opposition with shadow roles (something never happened before).

Berlusconi is to say the least not ideal (dear Lord!), but he’s the best we’ve got and infinitely better than the catfighting left mis-led by Prodi.

We, the electorate, do not like the economic downturn.

That is it.

Q, it isn’t as simple as that

I invited you to contest any of the facts which I stated yesterday, it seems you were unable to do so.

That would indicate a tacit acknowledgement that Labour bear responsiblity for the mess we’re in.
So, to describe our problems as the byproduct of an economic downturn would be disingenuous & fanciful.

As I said, people are hurting in their wallets.
But for the government of the day to impose extra stealth taxes with total disregard to people’s dire economic circumstances is completely cold hearted.

When people feel they’ve lost control of their government, the only way to regain control is to change the government.
.

Looking at this blog

it only confirms to me that a lot of bloggers derive more pleasure from conflict than from debating the problems which affect our country.
.

BOREON’S LAUGH OF THE DAY !!

“It is known that Gordon Brown is often charming and sociable, principally in private. He is consulted by foreign leaders, because the UK’s economic record is admired in many places.”

1) Known by who, and why only in private? Is it the same as fairies (no pun intended) who can’t be seen if you look for them?

2) Which ones?

Quite a little orgy of self-justification from the girls this morning, and some excellent, thoughtful and on point posts from Sheumais and pondy.

I stand by everything I have ever said (as opposed to have been alleged to have said) about Gordon Brown, the main architect of Britain’s difficulties.
Now, Mr Dee I am going to word this very carefully for you to avoid any misinterpretation. I have never SAID that Brown was/is a paedophile, even if I might privately believe it. What I did refer to was the unpleasant and unconvincing grimace that he affects, as being described by Richard Littlejohn as his “kiddie-fiddler’s grin”. I DID NOT say he was a child-molester, and for months you have chosen to put your own slant on it – so off to your archives, and prove me wrong.

David in Rome – the blog comment system here is the worst I have ever encountered, and the timing nonsense is only one aspect, I can see no reason for all the pages, when anywhere else they can manage with run-on, and I cannot see why they don’t adopt a comment numbering sytem that will not only make it easier to refer to comment No…, but will indicate where one has been deleted.
The easiest way to time your comment from posting is to copy it from the preview, cancel it, and paste into new box, and post, like I am going to do now at 12.55.

Cyclic-G’mornin

What on earth made you grumpy before you came onto the blogs?

Mornin’ Belle – injustice is my biggest hate, and this filthy war-mongering, mendacious 11 year long maladministration by self-serving, thieving incompetent misfits has perpetrated more injustices than have been seen in centuries of other bad governments.
No matter how badly they screw up, how many lives they ruin, how many they reduce to supplicant penury, it is always onward and upward for the rotten crew of ZNL miscreants.

Margaret “Enver” Hodge – paedophile’s apologist – promoted to Minister For Children, FFS
Margaret Beckett, Defra, FO – need I say more?
Jowells of the Jowells-Mill Mortgage Advisory Service
Flint – hah!
Hewitt, NHS destruction to order
Prescott DPM, FFS – Waiter!!
Frau Schmidt – cookery teacher and HO joke
Harpic- clean round the bend
Kelly – allowed to dodge cabinet decisions that don’t suit her
Cooper-Bollox twofer the price of 4
Kinnocks x 4 or 5
Gorbals
Sir Ian Blair STILL in office

Injustice – Blair swopping Maggie’s rebate for the promise of first crack at the EUSSR presidency when our promised referendum was denied us. McBean sneaking off to sign the ConstiTreaty when he thought no-one was looking. Council taxes, BBC licence fees, motorists’ persecution. The poor get poorer, the rich get richer, and the ZNL insiders walk off into the sunset with their ill-gotten gains, while we (you) STILL pay their Sky subs, council taxes, bar bills, taxi fares, restaurant bills, petrol bills, junkets.

Aaarggghhhh!!! And your friend Boreonandon wants, indeed PROMISED, another 10 years of this self-serving bunch of treacherous crooks- he is of course completely mad. I think if I tried to put it in a nutshell, all the money, power, kudos, rewards of society are going to the wrong people, not drs, nurses, the selfless, but to the drones, the parasites, the wreckers in other words ZNL and it’s faithful. Oh hell, that’s why I left, and won’t be back until they’re consigned to the dusbin.

Enough to make anyone grumpy isn’t it?

Cyclic

I will try to soothe you – calm down, gently does it. Bad for the bloodpressure- we are all lobbying like hell. Messages may get back, corrective actions may , just may be in the pipeline. Goodness, I hope so, Idealism does get out of hand.

Hope lessons will be learnt, but do our politions ever learn.?

Rebecca riots!!!Look that one up.

Davi in Rome, I thank you for your considerate response and will respond in kind

‘Am I getting to you? “People like me”? Unpeeve yourself. I’m infuriating tolerant and understanding, even perhaps self-righteous, sorry that’s me.’

No, I do not let people ‘get at me’

‘You seem to have a thing about abusive language, libel and lies, why not put it aside, it doesn’t do any good to rise to the bait.’

I cannot understand the level of the mentality of somebody who comes on the forum of a family newspaper and then uses language fit only for toilet paper. I will react vigourously to it everytime !!

‘It would be fruitless for me to say who had initiated the flame wars: you say your comments are fully supported, I’m sure the others would genuinely think otherwise. It does seem to me as if they can’t be bothered to argue with you anymore (IHT an example of an argument done to death) – which is a pity – it takes two to tango but you seem to be doing a pogo in the corner.’

What I meant by that is that I do not say anything that I feel I cannot support. I have been called a liar on more occasions that I would care to imagine but when evidence is requested the silence is golden to behold !
I do not agree with you on IHT. It is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with the Tory party , it give a true indication of the sentimet and intent (as their only unretractable financial proposal)and will not go away !

“May be I am wrong, so I would ask your opinion on the following:… ..Now your opinion, so far completely stunted on this sort of attack, would be greatly appreciated, if only to see how open-minded you might be !!”

‘Simple: The opinions as you report them are odious and I hope even in a moment of rage they would not pass my lips. ‘

I am, of course highly delighted with this response. For far to long many people have refused to speak out , or even worse gave tacit support, to the filth-pedlars and as a result their comments have got worse and worse. I would also welcome your speaking out in a more timely manner.

‘Understand mind you that there is huge rage as to what Labour, particularly Brown has done to the country. The more robust amongst us may thus express their rage with robust language. Although I try the sweetness and light approach, I too feel the same burning and deep fury – the institutional murder of poor Jean Charles de Menezes: how could this have happened? How can Sir Ian Blair still be in office? Iraq – Blair & Campbell sexed up the reports, the cabinet kept quiet except the honourable Robin Cook. The rest said nothing, they stayed on just for their own interests’

Again, I am of the opinion that the sort of foul language that I have encountered from one or two individuals has got little to do with Gordon Brown and more to do with the make-up of these persons. Everybody is capable of resorting to filth, very few do !!

‘How can these things have happened? Answer: only under a disgusting, immoral and corrupt Labour regime. If you support them and don’t work for their immediate removal then you are supporting this corrupt tribe of self interested money grabbing b…..ds. There, the first and last time I swear. Is my fury evident?’

I disagree with what you say, I agree with your right to say it. I am, indeed fortunate that I have, without any welfare or benefits prospered under this Government. I also feel that the self-serving Cameron, who has abused his priveleged up-bringing, in my mind, is more than worthy of your description of the Labour regime

‘On another front, these OTT posts seem to have reduced, but you continually refer back to them as if you were stamp collecting all the put downs you have received. It ain’t necessary, they are just words, words of fury sure, perhaps designed to rile you – but, I repeat, why take the bait?’

I repeat they do not rile me, but in the interest of a family newspaper I think that the moderators would do well to remove the worse of the purveyors of filth.

Here’s to the next 10 years of Labour Government.

…and Belle, sorry, but I forgot the most egregious injustice of all perpetrated personally by the foul nostril excavator posing as PM – the selling out of our Forces by his diverting vital funds to the benefit claimants in ZNL heartlands to keep them voting Liebour, while our troops die for lack of vital equipment.
Not working now is it – Dunwoody and Glasgow to the bunch of ‘em, and Geoff Hoon for the piano wire and lamp-post!!

BTW – there is talk they might bring back the orange one, Hain if as expected the CPS (motto: if it’s ZNL approved it must be OK) decide to do the usual and say “it’s not in the public interest…” I have always wondered who this public is, I’ve never met him, have you?

David in Rome, the evidence is here for all to see.
Need I say any more !!
Early closing again on Gido’s (curfew you know)!!

David in Rome, I might add that nothing is sacred to some people. On another blog ‘Is David Milliband more popular….’ there was some disgusting usage of the term ‘War veterans’.
However I am happy to report that the moderators, too, found such references to be beneath one’s dignity and duly removed the offensive passage.

Well done mods !!

David

If you’re saying that the term ‘war veterans’ was deleted, then that’s going too far.

Tell me the difference between that and calling someone ‘purveyor of filth’?

I think these deletions can only be due to the over-reactions of those who are doing the complaining.
What’s the point of being so petty, you surely can’t be that over-sensitive?
.

THE HYSTERICAL AND EVER SADDER DEE:-

” there was some disgusting usage of the term ‘War veterans’*. However I am happy to report that the moderators, too, found such references to be beneath one’s dignity and duly removed the offensive passage”

You forgot to mention saDDo that amongst the innumerable deletions of you two ZNL stooges’ offerings was the one in which you insinuated that Mrs Trellis was a drunk driver, you little charmer you.
Dee’s a “pretty straight kind of guy” folks, and we all know what that means.

* Mrs Trellis likened the efforts of you and Boreon to those of Mugabe’s war veterans, going round the place mob-handed stifling opposition. I really don’t see why the DT, with it’s professed commitment to free speech should find that accurate comparison offensive, but perhaps they were worn down by your hysterical crying. Are you going to have this deleted in the approved Stasi manner too Deedums?

Phil – quite – Dee wants “his” forum returned to him, and frantically insists that the moderators, who sadly don’t appear to concern themselves with reading the whole give in to get him off their backs. The DT is on a slippery slope.

PhilKean: ‘Tell me the difference between that and calling someone ‘purveyor of filth’?’

Well Phil a War veteran is ………..wait a minute surely you know ??

I must say I really appreciate Dave and myself being called war heroes, but I can honestly say that it all has felt like a walk in the park.

Obviously some have been rather engaged in their internal . . well battles shall we say, and no doubt they will need further attention.

They will just have to keep trying to become respectable members of society, but they do tend to keep pretty scandalous company . . .

Phil kean: ‘I think these deletions can only be due to the over-reactions of those who are doing the complaining’

What an extraordinarily strange view !! If there is a foul-mouthed response that is deleted then it is not the fault of the foul-mouthed sender but the fault of the person who ‘provoked’ the poor foul-mouthed sender.
If a passage is deleted for transgressing T&Cs then it is the fault of the person complaining rather than the person who disregarded T&Cs in the first place.

Do you have any views on rape. No don’t tell me; let me guess: if they didn’t wear all that perfume…..
.

Are these yet another example of the Principles of Phil, Have you got a book of them ???

It is very difficult to keep up with all the deletions that saDDo and, possibly, Quietzapple request. I think they flag every single one of mine and ‘c’ ’s posts in the hope that some will get knocked down. It is deeply regrettable that the DT is complicit in this technique.

However, this tactic is very much in keeping with their philsophy: deny free speech to anyone not keeping to the (Labour) party line. For all the time I have been posting on here, saDDo and Q have harried, bullied and abused conservative posters.

This is how Mugabe’s war veterans sought to intimidate the electorate (and much, much worse of course) in order to ensure that democratic change was denied in Zimbabwe and the oppressive regime of the communist Mugabe was prolonged.

Bean’s ‘war veterans’ are employing startlingly similar tactics, albeit without the violence yet, over here. The Daily Telegraph MUST stand firm to deny them ability to silence the ordinary person.

Several Dilly and Dully Tele bloggers have remarked on Gordon Brown’s social skills, wit & etc, Mick Fealty may as well be hung for that particular lamb.

I won’t go beyond Waugh as being one who has complained that Cameron can be stiff and arrogant.

Most people regard journos as reptiles, but most would add old POF Cyclecarte to that category of repulsion.

Mrs. Trellis: ‘It is very difficult to keep up with all the deletions’

You have caught me in an extremely goooood moood, at the moment. Have just spend a couple of hours in my games room this morning playing table tennis so I might not report all of your submissions. Is that all right with you. I wouldn’t want to drive you over to Gido’s now would I ? Anyway it is probably closed on Saturdays (curfew you know !!).

Phil – you don’t post facts, you give wild opinions and inaccurate observations and assert they are facts.

That is why hardly anyone ever debates with you.

Life is too short.

Cyclic-
Expats the world over want Britain to be how it used to be, as soon as you come through Heathrow, you feel the need to turn around! Dad used to do that, fought for our country,served as expat overseas for Queen and country, improving- civil engineering etc. Only to find big changes here thanks to the so called generosity of Great Britain towards others less fortunate and bone idle!

You cannot go shouting your head off and making a huge fuss any more- it is not acceptable.

I suspect now you are getting older you may actually fell more needful of the UK than you think, rather than suffering where you are!

And your dogs, where are they? You have a restless soul, Cyclic- if we had a change of government , would things be any different for you? No , because there would always be some idiot who crosses your path who is at odds with your ideal Y/N??

After clearing Heathrow, Dad used to make for the Army and Navy club- agood few hours later, he was happier to be back in the UK!!

You didn’t twig onto me talking about Suez- civilians were incarcerated(taken prisoner) for 3 months or longer-Dad was one of them. My mother sister and I were one of many evacuated 24hrs notice. Lost everything including the dogs that the army had given us when they were pulled out in haste before the troubles got going again.

Hence my issues with Tory governments- idiots all of them. I am not a socialist- or lib/damned. The Tories are full of bigots and self interested clots.

In particular they are secular , and think woman should deliver leaflets and make tea- most of them despised Maggie Thatcher- Like on Guido , they scheme and plot.

Some politics overlap- my agenda here is to lobby away in a subtle fashion- I have lobbied forever, about everything, even for the services getting a payrise in the seventies to bring them in line with their civilian counterparts!

I may be very unusual for a Tory woman, I am pretty damned comfortable speaking out, and I do manage a rapport with most.

Time for a breather- but does your dearly beloved feel the same way as you also? It is the same everywhere, one cannot help but feel overwhelmed either.

Mrs. Trellis: ‘I have today written to the editor of the DT’

Is that the best that the Networkers could produce. Well I am disappointed, I really am.

Now let me explain in the nicest possible way.
When you join the DT blog you agreed to be bound by their T & Cs, which is ‘policed’ by the DT moderators.

If you stay withing these boundaries the chances of your post being deleted are extremely slim.

I try, in the main, to remain within these boundaries wheras some other, foul-mouthed creatures, are an affront to decency and will, I would hazard a guess, be shown the door long before me.

My file of the deleted comments is available for all to see, including the DT.

Must dash again, my researcher has noticed something on Drunk-Disorder.com which needs my attention.

Toodle pip for now !

Perhaps you would all feel calmer if you listened to the cricket!

David Dee August 02, 2008 02:04 PM GMT

“No, I do not let people ‘get at me’”
I don’t believe this is true otherwise you woulnd’t hve to go crying to Mummy Telegraph all the time.

…
I asked you about: “the institutional murder of poor Jean Charles de Menezes: how could this have happened? How can Sir Ian Blair still be in office? “

and
Finally: ‘How can these things have happened? Answer: only under a disgusting, immoral and corrupt Labour regime. If you support them and don’t work for their immediate removal then you are supporting this corrupt tribe…”

You: “I disagree with what you say, I agree with your right to say it. I am, indeed fortunate that I have, without any welfare or benefits prospered under this Government…”

So, you do support Sir Ian Blair and the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes. You do support the Iraq war and how Blair got Britain into it, but its OK as you are “indeed fortunate that” you “have, without any welfare or benefits prospered under this Government…”

i.e. You’re all right Jack… shame about Jean Charles, the hundreds of British soldiers, the countless Iraqis.

“.. but in the interest of a family newspaper”

So you are doing it for a higher purpose – what rot.

and to tail it off, the final delusional and provocative line:

“Here’s to the next 10 years of Labour Government.”

Well done Mrs Trellis – FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS UNDER THREAT

Please post the e-mail address for the Editor, as klutz that I am, I cannot find it. Freedom of speech is precious, and it is not just here it is under attack by left-wingers. I have just copied this from the blog Theo Spark, who is highlighting a problem some US conservative blogs are coming up against:-

Theo says – “from the Neocon Express. They are pulling the same stunt with my old blog. It is time for us to pull togther and stand up to these idiots. Obama and his commie minions are trying to stifle all opposition.”

“My apologies to NE readers; Apparently a wave of Obama supporters has “flagged” the Neocon Express as a “spam” sight and have successfully shut us down until Google’s Blogger programmers can confirm that we are not a spam site. The process apparently takes about 48 hours.
Apparently, this is a glitch in the ‘Blogger’ system which allows anyone on the net to “flag” any Blogger site as a spam site. With enough “flags” they can shut down a site until Google manually inspects the site to confirm it’s a legitimate blog and not automated spam. Unfortunately, Obama supporters have been abusing this method which was designed to filter out real net spammers, and have been systematically flagging high profile “anti-Obama” blogs on the vast ‘Blogger’ system as “spam” in order to shut down debate.
I trust that Google will have us up and running in 48 hours as their e-mail to me stated. Again, My apologies; apparently it’s just part of the election “war” that is going on, especially on the internet, so I won’t take it personally. I do think it’s a bad reflection on Obama supporters.”

…just as I think that Dee and his crew’s actions are a bad reflection on Labour, and on the DT for capitulating to them.

David in Rome – well said, the stench of hypocrisy is hard to get out isn’t it?

Phil Kean August 02, 2008 12:38 PM GMT

“Looking at this blog

it only confirms to me that a lot of bloggers derive more pleasure from conflict than from debating the problems which affect our country.”

Q accused me of being naive. I think he may have been right. It is clear to me that he & DD are not interesting in debating, arriving at the truth or reaching a common agreement or even disagreement. They are only interested in “winning” the argument, which will be when we all give up and go away. The means to achieve this are irrelevant, its just the end that counts.

They have variously been called goons, stooges, I think you are being too kind – as I have been.

I presume David In Rome has never read the “sexed up” and “pre sexed up” material?

The differences are minimal, and Campbell was exaggerating his influence, bit of a boast imho.

His main influence was to use the phrase “sexed up” which was an exaggeration which caught the imagination especially of the anti HMG jouros at the BBC

Anyway back to the blog:

Cameron’s judgement has always been suspect. In 1992 he almost lost the general election for John Major.
The episode was referred to as Jennifer’s ear

Labour had claimed in a party political broadcast that a deaf girl, later named as Jennifer, had to wait six months for an operation to restore her hearing. Labour blamed Tory NHS cuts for this.
However there was some confusion over the reason for the delay and finally the girl’s GP whose original letter to her father had been the basis of the Labour’s claim, recanted and said he should not have blamed lack of resources for the waiting time. The Doctor wrote a letter, containing quotes from the Girl’s mother to Tory Central office to this effect. However Cameron tried to edit quotes given by Jennifer’s mother and GP to make them more ‘helpful’ to the Tories. But the document was an agreed text and had Cameron’s rejigged version been issued as a Press release, it might well have been disowned by the GP, handing Labour victory in the row.

Fortunately for Cameron, John Wakeham, then Energy Secretary , noticed the ‘rejigging’ and gave Cameron a severe telling-off in front of all his collegues. Cameron’s stock within Central Office fell away after this .
He had hoped John Major would choose him to be one of two political secretaries in this period. To Cameron’s annoyance, Major decided to have just one political secretary. It wasn’t Cameron.

To this day Major’s attitude to Cameron is puzzling for despite the fact that Cameron briefed him twice a week for around a year before Prime Minister’s Questions and almost every morning throughout the 1992 Election campaign, Major has let it be known he has no clear memories of him. The general view is that Major is being somewhat diplomatic with no wish to highlight Cameron’s obvious shortcomings !!

David in Rome, another one smoked out. It is not terribly difficult is it ?

However I do welcome your earlier comdemnation of POF’s offensive language.

Funnily enough I do not rile easily. I am remarkable patience and if you care to check back you will see that I have let the most vile and obnoxious comments pass without complaint, but why spoil a good rant with some truths, eh!

Regarding John De Menzes if I were you I would not shout tooo loud. At the time I was possibly the only person on this forum who could see anything wrong with this. I got some extremely insulting replies. In the main the opposition was from those that you are now supporting and I have asked a researcher to produce the comments. The outcome, I can assure you, will be most embarrassing for them. Comments relating to his lapsed visa were being put forward as justification for his killing. There were other comments, incorrectly, relating to his having bulky clothes and jumping the barriers. Why did he jump the barrier if he was innocent ? Why was he wearing heavy clothes if not to concealed bombs ? Which part of ‘Stop’ did he not understand ? Was he expecting them to shout in Brazilian ?
This was the cry from the rabids some with unmistakable racist undertones. Suffice to say that I was not in the majority with my calls for Ian Blair to resign.
You appear to be falling into an old fault of the rabids which is that you take something I say, or in this case something I do not say, exaggerate it to grotesque limits and then start to criticise the resulting exaggeration. I am sure that my friend Fealty will have a word for this sort of distortion.

However I am truly surprised that my omission should have launched your brain into overdrive in the wrong direction completely. I suppose that an apology is out of the question ??

Nice research Dave.

Poor Robin Cook was a bit naive in the middle of all that, wasn’t that the case where one of the little girls’ guardians was a tory, and was unlikely to support the original decision to go public on the matter?

I read that cochlea implants are now £15,000 each, it is amazing what can be done.

cyclicrate August 02, 2008 03:46 PM GMT

We see it as hypocrisy, they see it as legitimate debating tactics.

David in Rome
—————–

I think you’re right in your observations. Goons aptly sums them up.

You indicated to me that you were an observer long before you joined the ‘debate’.
Is it as frustrating to try to contribute as it was to watch?
.

As Ken Livingstone among many others pointed out Sir Ian Blair had not been in post for long when the London tube bombings occurred. De Meneses accidental killing was carried out at a time hen further bombing were expected.

Sir Ian Blair has made changes in procedures etc sufficient to ensure that this sort of mistake is extremely unlikely to occur again. He was brought in to change things for the better, and he has. The crime figures are a testament to that fact.

I think it easier to criticise than to find and bring about the best way forward; that is why we have an expert policeman i/c London’s police and we are writing about it.

David R – when your arguments are gainsaid, largely because you don’t know some critical facts, you whinge about the terms of debate, I am off, suggest you find some red and a lady.

David in Rome

“We see it as hypocrisy, they see it as legitimate debating tactics.”

A metaphor for ZaNuLabour, and their “war veterans” tactics.

David D
———

I think I’d rather ask you whether you know the definition of ‘war veterans’, as posted in this context.

‘War veterans’? as in, those Africans who fought against apartheid, but now refuse to concede to the democratic will of the poeple, and seek to intimidate the people on behalf of & to perpetuate the governing regime.

Ironically apt, when applied to those who seek to intimidate those of differing views and opinion.

Who was clever enough to realise that there was a parallel?
.

David Dee August 02, 2008 04:19 PM GMT

“However I do welcome your earlier comdemnation of POF’s offensive language.”

no I did not condemn POFs (who or what is POF) offensive language, I condemned what you had reported the language to be.

I am glad you called for Ian Blair to resign, yet it is this government that has a) put him there, b) kept him there. Why do you not now call for the resignation of the Home Secretary who is supporting him?

Now how about the Iraqi war and the justification used to start it? Why did all the cabinet support Blair when it was evident that the 45 minute claim was stretching it? Why did they not all resign if it was wrong? Did Blair lie to them (surely not), why when Robin Cook took a moral stance did the others not smell a rat and also take a moral stance?

How can you support these charlatans, oh sorry its because you’re all right Jack.

I don’t want your apology, I want you to agree that Labour are responsible for a) what has happened over Iraq, b) the continuance of Sir Ian Blair and this should not have been so.

BOREONANDON AGAIN POSTS THE SAME NONSENSE, AND ON ANOTHER POST QUESTIONED MY RIGHT, TO COMMENT!! – so I reproduce his comments and my reply here:-

B- “Sir Ian Blair hadn’t been in post for a year when the de Menezes shooting occurred….”

c- What has that to do with anything – he’d been deputy long enough and he lied, and covered up for the murderous incompetence of his men (and woman). Cause for dismissal if he weren’t a ZNL plant.

B- “It ill behoves the resident of a country whose contributions to the war on terrorism have been so scant, and who therefore doesn’t face the terrorist threat as London does, to write on the matter imho.”

c- Your opinion is never humble, reasonable or sensible. Do you mean to say that my ex-patriate status should disbar me from comment on matters affecting my mother country? Silly question – if they conflict with the ZNL line you’d like to disbar everyone.

cyclicrate
August 02, 2008
04:00 PM GMT

They really do NOT like dissent do they?

Q,

“Phil – you don’t post facts, you give wild opinions and inaccurate observations and assert they are facts”.

There are plenty who debate with me.
However, the debate normally concludes in total agreement, as most contributors on here are of logical and sound mind.

I was rather humbled yesterday when quite a few people spoke on my behalf to reinforce my belief in the sanctity of my principles.
So, the constant jibes from you and DD to the contrary are lost among the observations of other honourable independent bloggers.

Ok, I’ll try another angle to make things easy for you.
If you can’t dispute the facts that I post, then please point out what you regard as ‘wild opinions and inaccurate observations’.

I don’t think you’ll even be able to do that!
.

Phil Kean August 02, 2008 04:29 PM GMT

“You indicated to me that you were an observer long before you joined the ‘debate’.
Is it as frustrating to try to contribute as it was to watch?”

The frustrations are outward not inward – that people can be so obtuse and such blind supporters of a failed regime.

As an observer I thought that I might make contributions that would help stem the tide of goonery. I see now however that we are dealing with a real and persistent infestation. dd-difficile and q-difficile.

Still we lost Hazel when dear Ken was defenestrated, I imagine we will loose one or both of the remain Flying Pickets when Brown is booted out either in September or next year.

David in Rome.

‘Flying pickets’, I like that one, though if DD gets upset over it, you just might find it being clipped.

‘When Brown goes’? On past form DD will vanish for a while, less fortitude than Q.

However, when Labour are deservedly eradicated, their reason for being disolves instantly.
I’m firmly of the belief that corrupt Labour socialism will cease to exist after the next election, that leaves them without an ideology, and without a political home.

Still, I suppose someone might try to resurrect the SWP, I’m sure they’d feel right at home there!
.
.

I REST MY CASE – LOL

dumDDdum – “Anyway must go and wash my hands. Just returned from Drunk-Disorder.Com a most unpleasant place.”

Hope you weren’t offended by all that lovely, sorry, simply dreadful pornography!!

Phil Kean August 02, 2008 05:14 PM GMT

“‘When Brown goes’? On past form DD will vanish for a while, less fortitude than Q.” I thought that might be so, DD seems to be showing signs of stress.

“However, when Labour are deservedly eradicated, their reason for being disolves instantly…”

I agree, we’ve waited 11 years for this, a bit more time is probably not a problem. You used to say you wanted Brown to go full term so that the true horror of Labour became apparent to the electorate, do you still believe this or do you hold my view that the electorate have finally woken up?

“Still, I suppose someone might try to resurrect the SWP, I’m sure they’d feel right at home there!”

No doubt from the ashes splinter groupings will be created, Real Labour, SWP (indeed), Labour & European Party, basically clubs for the old lags to frequent to speak of the glory days when Gordon Brown taxed the country till it bled round the ears and sold the people on the altar of European integration.

Phil kean: ‘to reinforce my belief in the sanctity of my principles’

?????????????????

David Dee – 03:25PM:
“My file of the deleted comments is available for all to see, including the DT.”

Please advise how ‘all’ may see them.

David in Rome
—————–

Well, it’s all about balance.

I calculated that Brown should stay the course so the electorate would give Labour the full 6 laceholes worth.

Now? Well there’s the liklihood that Incapability Brown will pull the plug as soon as someone (Mili) sticks his head over the wall.

However, Labour have created an awful mess for a Conservative government to inherit.
Don’t forget about my joke about the SWP.

Tories traditionally not only have to face the task of pulling the country out of economic catastrophe’s of Labour’s making, but have to contend with the full phalanx of Labour’s left wing, unions and other socialist subversives trying to bring the country to a halt in order to re-instate a corrupt Labour government.

So, at this time of recession, do we really want to place the Tories at such an economic disadvantage for the lefties to exploit to their own advantage?

Then, if we leave an incompetent and corrupt Labour in power for another two years, there’s no telling how much more damage they’ll do to our country.

A real headache?
.

David in Rome:-

“Still we lost Hazel when dear Ken was defenestrated, I imagine we will lose one or both of the remain Flying Pickets when Brown is booted out either in September or next year.”

I think you are too sanguine David – these are hobnalled ZNL fanatics (unpaid they assure us!) who would support, as another poster succinctly put it “an empty can of Red Stripe, if it wore a Labour rosette”.
No matter what species of monkey leads the Bandalog, the stooges will be there cheering he/she/it on, and claiming that this particular simian was their first choice all along.

Phil and cyclicrate

To resolve the problem of election now or in two years time, perhaps the reason for having the election now would be to pull the mat from under Mugabe Bean’s War Veterans. As a result they could no longer pollute the ether with fiction about ZNL winning in 2010, frightening little children and generally getting a bad name for themselves. It would even be in their own interest.

David in Rome & cyclicrate
———————————

I hear Q talking about Brown being a ‘nice’ man.
I don’t believe any person prepared to put their own ambition before party and country could ever be described as nice.

Bean loves the power and status that goes along with the job, even though he must be suffering daily for it.
Miliband is a natural in front of the camera, and also seems popular with the ordinary Labour voter, who seem desperate to get rid of Brown.

It may come to a time when the pressure for Brown to stand aside becomes overwhelming, that’s when I’ll be fascinated to see whether he accepts his fate, or becomes nasty and brings the house down.

Either way, it’s going to be entertaining viewing.
.

By the way
————-

Does anyone know why Q changed his posting name to Baron?
.

To correct some of the lies:

Hazel got fed up with the abuse, some people just cannot take it endlessly, esp when they have a heavy burden, she has 4 young children to look after. She is back, on her terms after her bans.

Dave Dee was peed off with his reasoned posts being clipped, while the tirades of obscenities & etc were left effectively unmoderated.

My guess is that I object to more posts on various grounds than any other individual, my privilege & pleasure.

I suppose it is a sign of the times that you people truly have no shame.

Thatcher deserves some sort of “State funeral” – for various reasons – including the fact that she will leave such a disgraceful legacy as the current rag bag of illegitimate neo nasties and their horrible manners.

Mrs Trellis – it seems as if the fame of the BWV are spreading! This from GF (wash your hands DeeDum) from someone with an excellent sense of humour (and a good grasp of ZNL reality) calling themselves “polly and the fascist war party criminals”.

“Due to a lack of forward planning, prisons in England have been filled to overflowing. What is not generally known, is that for a number of years now, the House of Commons has been used as an Open Prison.

It has been occupied by offenders whose crimes range from paedophilia, sodomy, fraud, tax evasion, drug-taking, murder and treason.

Because it is an open prison, these criminals are allowed to come and go as they please, inflicting further misery and damage in the constituencies in which they live.

They do not wear a uniform, but are distinguished by two features, one being they all jump in unison on the cry “Expenses”, the other, they have a yellow streak running down their backs.

The public are warned that if they are approached by any of these individuals, they are strongly advised to keep their hands firmly in their pockets, never reveal their identity and never engage them in conversation; they are adept at picking your pocket, they are skilled in obfuscation and, above all, bent on stealing your identity, especially if you are English.”

I wonder if supporters of the PLP will comment, or will this be a POF?!?

Barren: “abuse, some people just cannot take it endlessly”

Simple answer – don’t ask for it by coming on here abusing others.

Amusing, Mrs Trellis, (for a change) to use a wholly inappropriate word to abuse me. as you suggest others are guilty of abuse of which you have been a key instigator.

You always encouraged your lil ol’ submissive loon to abuse Hazel cos you lost every argument with her.

Vewy Sad, tewwibly, tewwibly . .

Q, re: – 10.44
——————-

I don’t know whether to laugh, or, laugh actually.

I’ve never heard anything so completely ridiculous, and it seems that others agree with me.

Have you got any valium or anti-depressants in the house?
Fialing that, lie down in a dark room and try to relax.
.

A serious matter, your response last time made clear your guilt, the people in the local shop remember Simon, who is very individual looking.

Phil and Mrs T – he gone over the edge now, crying into his beer, and we’ll get even less sense out of the old sot than normal. It’ll be like a pissed Stanley Unwin.

“The DT think I’m trouble” – Boreon. LOL

Go on Boreon ask them to delete it, because only you can be rude, and you don’t like it up you, do you.

Phil, he has been banned all over the place, I have been once only – so far, but I am sure he is doing his best along with his boss to increase that – they are not fans of freedom of speech!!

You would collapse under cross examination from the CPS newest recruit too.

Why has poor old cyclecrate been banned twice here for abuse?

Gido is his kind of guy, he advertises gido’s alcoholic comments on the Dully Tele, I wonder if he has put that in his email?

Lol, I doubt it.

I guess his dad had a merry dance with him, in the days when they were inspecting Idi Amin.

Gorn 45Uguv, tell us about those training days . . .

Barren:

Time for bed, old boy. You’re just going to make yourself a laughing stock – oh, I see you already have…

Well we all know you are keen on Mugabe, trelliar, and “C” and his pa were early muckers of Idi Amin’s, he has said so.

Don’t you think you should find something else to do before Osborne has to disown you? Are there any pictures?

(and Niel, and Christine, and Doddy . . ?)

Bare faced Liar Barren Trelliar;

I have three lovely, clever, good children, pls reserve that insult for yourself.

Funny (with rising inflection)

But those who use this phrase so veery often, presumably do:

“They don’t like it up them, do they?”

I wonder who that might be?

He is completely drunk – wonder what the “three lovely children” make of their unlovely Pa, and why no mention of the lovely wife, or did she hit the road long ago?

Baron – drunk or not, you open a can of worms when you make the mistake of referencing to other posters’ families, who are unable to defend themselves – you are ALWAYS the first to do it, as you have zero self-control, drunk or sober. Go and sleep it off you silly old fool.

Funny (with rising inflection) . .

The bermudan loon has finally owned up to being banned. before he told us it was a technical error . .

(it is TWO bans if you count BOTH ids, but then he lied about not having more than one, didn’t he?)

They Cannot STOP Themselves . . .

Qz, whatever happened to Stanley Unwin aka Rob U. Has he gone to Drunk-disorder.com completely ?

I hope he disinfects if he ever returns !!

I didn’t mention his Pa inspecting Idi Amin in 1948 ish, he did.

He has come clean on his “family,’ how fed up he was with being educated away from home etc.

Perhaps he was drunk when he told us, I don’t know. Quite possible . .

But it is important to try and understand him if we are to help, and help prevent the disaster he is heading for . . .

Dave: I suspect RobU went when I told him why I was referring to him as Sor Wabbit O’Nan.

His boss may have realised he was blown, repeatedly if he had his way, as they say in military “intelligence”

(Schome mishtake?)

Oh Boreonnnnn (with rising inflexion) – it’s time for your beddy-byes.

Isn’t it nasty when someone purporting to be an englishman calls people “buddies” or “guys”?

I don’t mind when americans do it, or people who don’t know better . . . But . .

It just makes them look rather Mr Bean trying too hard.

Qz, even Belle noticed that the Purveyor was off-colour:
Cyclic-G’mornin

What on earth made you grumpy before you came onto the blogs?

Possibly on the Cobras over at Gidoshsh.

Qz: ‘Isn’t it nasty when someone purporting to be an englishman calls people “buddies” or “guys”?’

Very lower class, don’t you think ?

Do they take it with chillies? Lime? Or Simon Heffer articles?

Ineffably, Dave.

Qz: ‘He has come clean on his “family,’ how fed up he was with being educated away from home etc.’

It would explain the inferiority complex !

Are you all still at it?

Just arrived back from a lovely party, no sore head either, stuck to wine. About to bed down, turn off machine etc and the same old song is there– still talking chillies and squealy Simon H– am going to take a look see, pouring out side now! hmmmmm

Al Hamilton – yes he is isn’t he!!!

Q: Guess who I saw over at Gido’s ?
A: No one. It was closed. Curfew you know !

Ho,Ho,Ho,Ho,Heh,Heh

I invite anyone who may be under the illusion that ZaNuLabour are in the business of winning hearts and minds (as if it were not too late for that) to read the foregoing combination of filth, insults, downright lies and rubbish by the fanatical apologists for their failing party, dumDDdum, and Boreon the insignificant.

I ask you, what a sink of mediocrity, what a paucity of argument, what a disregard for truth, what a hunger for power, could justify such travesties of truth?

They can dream on – they are done, and they know it.

Happappy days are here again… dum-DD-dum-dum..

“I ask you, what a sink of mediocrity, what a paucity of argument, what a disregard for truth, what a hunger for power, could justify such travesties of truth”

Nice turn of phrase for once, might be talking about himself and the tory party . . . (Lifted is it?)

Oh, he is . . .

Phil Kean August 02, 2008 10:34 PM GMT

“Either way, it’s going to be entertaining viewing.”

Entertaining? – Yes, but only in a tragic way, like watching one of those old B&W American movies where the train comes off the bridge and crashes into a gorge: Gordon at the controls grinning, looking ahead but not seeing the oncoming disaster, fireman Miliband shoveling coal into the engine to make it go faster to its doom, Q & DD clinging onto the rails around the engine, legs dangling behind in the slipstream, Labour MPs in the carriages screaming out for change as death becomes more apparent. Trouble is they are on the bridge already and doing 100.

It is “Fascism” Phil, not “facism”

Have you lost the link to that dictionary I gave you?

David in Rome: ‘So, you do support Sir Ian Blair and the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes. You do support the Iraq war and how Blair got Britain into it, but its OK as you are “indeed fortunate that” you “have, without any welfare or benefits prospered under this Government…”

i.e. You’re all right Jack… shame about Jean Charles, the hundreds of British soldiers, the countless Iraqis’

I don’t suppose that there is any chance of an apology for your sojourn into fantasy land ?

Have you been hit over the head recently or do you normally indulge in ficticious outbursts of this nature and attempt to wrap them up as serious debate ?

David in Rome

“legs dangling behind in the slipstream”, best one of the day I bet!

As for chief plod Blair, if you are supporting Boris’s efforts to get him out of it, then I fully agree with you, to me the bloke’s a disaster.

It’s been intimated that you may have done OK over the past ten years.
If this was the case, I would suggest that you probably took good advantage of the economic legacy left by 18 years of Tory government, and the ten years of extremely favourable world conditions which lasted until the fruits of Labour’s incompetent policies ruined it.
.

Qz: ‘He may be another lying toerag . . . ?’

No, no It is debate don’t you see !!

This is how it works. You dislike a person because they do not share your views but you cannot fault their argument so …. you invent something and you can then happily, and to your hearts content continue, the fanatsy ‘debate’.

If you are found out ? Well then you do the decent thing and apologise or alternatively you can show what you are really made of, how much character you really have and take the cowardly way out !!!

Dunroman is yellow methinks !!

More bad news for Incapability
————————————–

It seems that polls have been confirming that NO change of leader will prevent Labour from being removed.
Of course, to all but the most myopic of Labour bootlickers and goons, this comes as no surprise.

As I’ve been saying, Labour cocking up the economy is bad enough.
BUT, when you take the trouble to ASK ordinary people for their opinions, as I frequently do, you’ll realise that people want Labour OUT, mainly because they feel they’ve lost control over them.

It’s not rocket science. We elect governments to act in our best interests, not their OWN corrupt self-interest, & definitely NOT to ruin our economy through incompetence.

It is against our wishes for Labour to impoverish us, then kick us when we are down in order to raise large amounts of taxation revenue to help them out of the economic mess of their own making.

IE: Penalising motorist taxation, HIPs tax, Congestion/road pricing, Bin taxes etc.

Also, it is against the vast majority wish of the British people to sell our democracy to the EU.
Labour LIED about the referendum, this won’t be forgiven.

So, unless Incapability Brown starts taking lessons in regime longevity from Mugabe, I’d suggest that Labour’s time of light headed excess will soon be coming to an end.
.

Trelliar that is, Kean rraely has his imagination engaged, just random nonsense . . . .

But he is trying.

I am interested in the polling methods employed to ascertain the opinions of the UK public in 2010, conjecture might be the most polite word, lies an alternative.

I think the old buffer needs support, pls witter at him Trellis, you know the usual . . .

Oh, and while it is kind to address myself and Dave Dee as “War Heroes” it may upset some, so please desist.

You still intent on dragging these blog pages into the gutter, Barren (war vet snr)?

Nothing of interest to say for the last two days?

Have you noticed that you and saDDo are pretty well the only people left on here talking riddles to each other?

A pair of saDDos with not a functioning brain cell between them!

Come on Q
————–

I thought we’d come to an understanding that Mrs Trellis is a truthful person.

I ask for examples of her lying, nothing is forthcoming.

Speaks for itself.
.

An opinion poll in 2010?

That would probably fall into the realms of fantasy politics, as the smart money suggests Labour are out within months.

BUT, if it did last until 2010, “dread”, in the words of that famous ditty, ‘Things can only get worse, get worse, can only get, only get’.
.

David Dee August 03, 2008 08:46 AM GMT

You stated you were one of the first to call for Sir Ian Blair to go, even in opposition to many on this board. I said that was good. I agree profoundly. The Met should be protecting the innocent not gunning them down.

1. Has that opinion changed, should he stay?
2. If Yes, why?
3. If No, why have not the various Home secretaries invited him to go?
4. Do you support those home secretaries and their actions with respect to Sir Ian Blair?

The issue is the most serious one – should institutional killing be allowed.

The logic of my statement was that a) this killing and Iraq could only have happened under Labour, b) if you support Labour, you are supporting a regime that has been responsible for these events, what happened before and what happened afterwards.

A small condemnation of Labour Home secretaries (various) would go some way to reassure me that you are a humane human.

David in Rome: The logic of my statement was that…

The logic of your statement was that it was totally illogical. Because I did not express a view, originally on Menezes, and Iraq you formed your own, and totally incorrect, answer.

I still await an apology !

Phil Kean:’I thought we’d come to an understanding that Mrs Trellis is a truthful person’

I have the same view of Mrs. Trellis being honest as I have of you being principled.

Oh, no not another riddle to tax (OOops) Mrs. Trellis’s brain !!

Mrs. Trellis, is it any wonder that Qz and I speak to each other. We both enjoy grown-up conversation.

Do yourself a favour. Print off your last 10-20 posts, take them and you into a quiet room and read them, really read them.
They are full of vitriol, bile and spite.

How old are you !!

Phil Kean: ‘I ask for examples of her lying, nothing is forthcoming’

I have provided ample evidence of this before.

However one example.
Cameron’s IHT proposals, if implemented, would give massive tax cuts of up to £560,000 to millionaires.

Mrs. Trellis said that this was untrue but failed to point out where !

Note for the confused:

There appears to be breakdowns in continuity of these blog comments. That is because significant numbers of posts from David Dee and Baron Laurence de Qu are getting deleted by the moderators.

Normal service is unlikely to be resumed anytime soon………(unless Bean & Co do get kicked out before the Autumn)

David Dee
————-

“However one example.
Cameron’s IHT proposals, if implemented, would give massive tax cuts of up to £560,000 to millionaires”.

QUESTION: even if there was any substance to this suggestion, – IF, a Tory Britain was being run competently, with a sound economy, less government, less waste, low tax, less government control, more prosperity, repatriated powers from the EU, (ie: restoration of democracy), why on earth would it matter if a few millionaires paid a little less tax, by their standards?

Is it the politics of envy, or penalising socialism for socialisms sake, or jelousy, awkwardness?

To me, this type of outdated bias against class or wealth is exactly the type of ‘thinking’ which has relegated us to our present third world status, (among so called developed nations).

Millionaires, business people, (ie: Mrs Trellis, myself etc) investors, risk takers, are the very people who keep the finances of the country afloat, and allow corrupt Labour administration’s to waste that revenue on disincentivisation, welfare and laziness.

Soon to be the thinking from the past.
.

Mrs Trellis

Thanks for telling me that.

I didn’t complain as it happens, re: post 10:44pm.

However, someone obviously has realised that Q can’t keep trotting out lies about me with impunity.

Trying to be tolerant and patient has its limits.
.

David Dee August 03, 2008 10:26 AM GMT

David, I believe you may have missed a post of mine as the inference was most clear.

Ok just in case, lets try an assertion followed by a simple question:

You stated you were one of the first to call for Sir Ian Blair to go, even in opposition to many on this board.

I applaud this principled stand. It is my belief that the Met should be protecting the innocent not gunning them down.

Now do you still believe this?

Phil – there is obviously a bit of a game going on – the war vets are flagging all our posts for deletion and I think the same is now happening to them.

If I had nothing to do in life, I would keep copies of all the posts I flagged for deletion so that I could then selectively use quotes from them against other posters. But that is surely not in the spirit of blogging or commenting.

David Dee has admitted to doing that, however.

Mrs Trellis August 03, 2008 12:07 PM GMT
“David in Rome -

You flagged that one as well?”

Actually I didn’t, but have now. Lets see if the question mark at the end of it saves it.

I can’t stand this mindless trolling.

Mrs Trellis August 03, 2008 12:07 PM GMT

See its gone now. Obviously phrasing the abuse as a question is insufficient.

I just thought I would test the water with this little lot- Tried it out else where, what fun to add to Mrs Ts brilliant html–!

Oh Dear me! It’s Sunday!

href=”http://planetsmilies.net” title=”music smiley”>

‘c’ – You may have missed it because it didn’t stay up for long, but saDDo posted the most disgusting quip about people fouling underpants (I think he thought it was funny after Q had told Lord Elvis to take a change of underwear to work with him).

He is truly the Purveyor of Filth on these blogs.

When I picked him up on it, he made some puerile comment about being only 14 years of age (true, mentally) and then went off on some further personal offensiveness.

I think you are right elsewhere about the challenge to these blogs. The war vets seem to have entered a terminal phase and are doing anything they can to limit free speech and disrupt the dialogue.

And they thought that shutting pubs down by banning smoking would stop ordinary people discussing politics. How wrong they were!

Mrs. Trellis: ‘DD posted the most disgusting quip about people fouling underpants’

Actually it was about Elvis’s ability or inability to digest words and ended with a request (again) for an apology for his accusing me of lying when I stated that I had purchased petrol for 109.9p per litre.

Thank you very much for reminding me. I had forgotten about the request for an apology.

Having just skimmed through this rather amazing 194 comment weblog, I feel as though I have just watched the movie “Russian Ark”:

Reviews: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/...

Other: http://www.sensesofcinema.com/co...

Philkean: ‘why on earth would it matter if a few millionaires paid a little less tax, by their standards?’

Nice try Phil, but I was awake early this morning and I can recognise evasion when I see it. I cannot recall asking for an essay on it !!
Now lets try again.

Mrs. Trellis said that this statement was untrue, please let me know which part !
Further evasion will be taken as your inability to do this and that the statement is true.

Cameron’s IHT proposals, if implemented, would give massive tax cuts of up to £560,000 to millionaires.

I already know where your principles stand on this but surely the question is simple enough even for you !!

Mrs. Trellis; ‘But that is surely not in the spirit of blogging or commenting’

I find it extremely useful when researching things.
For example if someone says: ‘I never lie’, I just ask one of my researcher to search that name (it is indexed) under lie (it is categorised as well) and hey presto: there it is in glorious black and white.
I can then ask that person to apologise (2 currently outstanding).

Mrs. Trellis; ‘David Dee has admitted to doing that, however’

I think I said that it is maintained in my Zanu-Lab(oratory) by one of my researchers !!

Phil

I strongly urge you not to enter into any further dialogue with David Dee after his truly disgusting post about people fouling underpants. Needless to say it was removed. We certainly don’t want purveyors of filth like him on these blogs.

I see he has also posted that code inviting the ‘kiddie-fiddlers grin’ phrase in reply. Happy to oblige if it makes him/her happy!

Mrs. Trellis; ‘where is the ‘vitriol, bile and spite’?’

It may have escaped your notice but you do begin many, many of your commenst with name-calling which I have not, as yet, done anything about. I do not like to break up the continuity of the blog unless absolutely necessary !

Mrs Trellis
————-

I didn’t see that post. However, did you see Q’s ranting post last night at 10:44?

I didn’t complain, but it was still removed. As you know, I’ve always tried hard to conduct sensible debate, it does rather look from DD’s replies that he has no intention of engagement, except for bating and insults.

BTW, I didn’t know Q had been previously banned. After his recent antics, and becuase we’ve not heard from him for a while, I’m wondering if he’s been banned again.

As Katie once said about Tree, careful or you may end up posting as Treeee.
I suppose Q’s next incarnation might be as ‘Lord Laurence de !!!’.
.

Mrs. Trellis;’I strongly urge you not to enter into any further dialogue’

Well you would say that wouldn’t considering the question that I was asking him, eh ?

Phil kean: ‘As Katie once said about Tree, careful or you may end up posting as Treeee.’

I think that you will find that someone closer to home tried to adopt the ‘Hazel Tree’ name but without the usual substance. In fact without any substance which is the hallmark of that particular person.

Have you given up on the question on IHT. I said that you would. I take it that the statement is true and that Mrs. Trellis was incorrect to say otherwise. Handy for future purposes !!

Phil – Dee’s filthy post was absolutely deplorable and was swiftly removed.

Quietzapple was banned over at The Guardian blogs and, by his own admission, was banned here as well.

I think we should just leave them to chat amongst themselves. They hve only ever been here to disrupt the blog, bait people, harry and abuse honest, principled comment-posters. But when the boot’s on the other foot – like when I called him a smug commentraitor the other day, he went apoplectic.

Have you noticed that only a tiny minority of Dee’s posts are related to the blog topic? The majority start off with quoting a line from someone else’s post and then picking a fight with them on some irrelevance.

Best policy is to ignore; they will lose interest eventually.

RE:- THE ZANULABOUR PURVEYOR OF FILTH

Phil – forget dumDDdum – he keeps asking you to answer his questions, but refuses point blank to answer any himself. Fruitless, and time wasting – the creep is an empty vessel, has no answers, and is simply here to “regain his forum” so he can continue his fanatical efforts to drive others away with his pointless inanities. Ignore the little insect.

Mrs Trellis and cyclicrate
——————————-

Yes, as usual you’re both speaking the truth.

Truthfully, maybe I should take my usual principled stand and engage honourably with those bloggers who, not only ask questions, but are also prepared to provide honest answers.
.

I see things deteriorated again. Any chance we could have a political debate without a slagging match? I’m the first to admit I’ve slung some of it in the past, but I’m fairly confident I didn’t start any and, whilst some of it is funny, it usually gets out of hand. I know you’re not going to agree to disagree, but losing the rag over a political blog isn’t really worth it, is it?

Labour to a tee?
——————–

I’ve just seen the TV news. They quote a statement from Blair, ‘By ditching spin, Brown has dissed Labour’s record’.

An indictment of corrupt mal-administration from the horses mouth!
.

Hi Sheumais
—————

I’ve heard myself take that attitude many times.

I suppose there must come a point when we realise that debate isn’t what some are here for.
You yourself have come in for some pretty nasty treatment over the past few days.

I remember your response to having your comment of some months ago repeated to you, as is done to me.

I’m not sure how to proceed in the future.
If I’m honest, I tend to lose my patience quicker than I used to and end up showing anger.

We’ll have to see.
.

No doubt I’ll come on here looking for a fight myself sometime Phil, so I’m certainly not going to lecture others. It’s just when you read the story of the honeymooning couple who were shot by robbers and that he’s now died too, all this heat over politics seems a bit silly.

I do understand the frustration with the repeated dishonesty of politics, but remain convinced a considerable portion of the blame for that lies with the media. A good example of that is the repeated statement that Brown does not employ spin. To me, that is patently ridiculous. Blair’s time in office depended heavily upon spin, not least on financial commitments in Budgets from Brown, as he recommitted the same funds over and over again. That is spin, certainly of the ripping yarn variety, and it has continued after Blair departed. It is my opinion that Blair was such an unapologetic liar that he even convinced himself black was white and his elevation to seniority owed more to the lack of competition and apathy of his party post Kinnock than it did to his talents. Sadly, I feel Cameron’s motives are exactly the same, the quest for power and, though I know we disagree on this, it seems likely the same lack of competition and apathy will see his ambition realised.

“I remember your response to having your comment of some months ago repeated to you, as is done to me.”

I’m afraid I find the recording of other people’s comments on here a bit sinister, or creepy as I have described it before. I don’t lend off the cuff remarks any great significance, hence I don’t recall what I may have said, and I most certainly don’t lend sufficient weight to postings on Telegraph blogs to consider it influential in any meaningful way. I respect most contributors views and, where appropriate, try to make allowance for a natural lack of erudition, both mine and others, but very few of the extended comment threads tend to stick to the proposed topic. I suppose it’s a descent into the “with us or against us” style of politics that kept George W in office and it’s a pity we have to choose between the hapless and the hopeless all the time.

Of course

I’d forgot how opposed you are to the use of spin.
Though, when I’m on topic, I sometimes quote you as being one of the originators of the campaign against spin and media misrepresentation.

Today’s news about Labour’s blatent acknowledgement of their unashamed use of spin must seem quite ironic, in that they feel Brown’s demise has partly been because he tried to distance himself from those tactics.

I personally think they are using spin to cover for the ditching of spin.
Blair was lucky to get out at the right time. It was always going to go wrong, Brown just happenned to be PM when it did.

I still maintain that Labour rode on a wave of Tory economic inheritance, favourable world conditions and luck. None of it’s left now, and Labour have been found wanting.
.

I wonder what your thoughts are on Brown’s first few months in the job Phil. They were spun in my view, as every “crisis” that occurred was supposedly dealt with adeptly. I have still seen no evidence to support that assessment, but, if Brown himself is distancing himself from spin, who is doing the spinning?

By criticising anyone for abandoning spin, Blair merely confirms himself as the worm he is, as he is admitting he could not survive without distortion of the truth. I wonder if he’s bright enough to realise that? I suspect not.

Well, like you, I was amazed that all the media were building him into something he clearly wasn’t.

The power of all that media glorification even managed to gloss over Brown’s own culpability.
Floods for example, ie: he was begged for funds to re-inforce and augment flood defences, without success.

However, after a few visits to the areas affected by flooding, media build-up and some disingenuous photo opportunites, he somehow turned the situation round to gain credit for it.

I find Brwon an embarrassment of international proportions.
11 years as chancellor and PM, and the country now has to go begging for foreign nuclear expertise and investment.

This is no way to run a country.
Buying votes with such corrupt mechanisms as ‘baby bonds’ may keep Labour in power for a while, but long term we suffer as our country is forced to rely increasingly on imports of everything from food, expertise, investment, minerals, fuels, right through to our inability to defend ourselves as an independent entity.

Disgraceful!
.

But Phil, and I’m afraid it’s one of Vanessa Feltz proportions, why was Her Majesty’s Opposition none the wiser? There have been many reasons to criticise the government over the years and they haven’t been effective at any of them, bar the one-sided Hague v Blair PMQs, that nobody paid any attention to. That is part of the reason I remain concerned for our political future, even if New Labour finally stops kicking.

Sheumais – I think in the early Bliar years, while anyone with half a brain recognised him for the vacuous little twerp he is, the honeymoon with the meedja was such, and the Tory party was so demoralised and riven that there there was no hope for anyone, even as talented a debationg bruiser as Hague to make any headway. Plus – he is bald, and I am sad to say, these things matter to a soundbite TV audience with the attention span of a newt.

I think the fourth estate looking to their junkets, cosy expenses, strangers bar, getting heady on the scent of power, and being mesmerised by a supreme snake oil salesman, completely lost sight of their duty to the public. It was a love-in. This of course was their last chance, because I don’t know about you, but I NEVER buy the dead tree press now, my news comes online, even when in the UK – and I won’t have the BBC on in any form, except fotr Steve Wright in the afternoon!. The MSM have screwed themselves with the help of technology, and they will increasingly become simply reactive anachronisms IMHO.

BTW, Sheumais, are you for Scots independence, and do you foresee it?

Sheumais and cyclicrate

We mustn’t forget the fact that a large part of the media world have been covertly supporting Labour, going easy on them, building them up, and not fully exposing Labour’s culpability over policy failure.

The Tories upset a certain media magnet during the 90s, and he made it his mission in life to assist Labour in their removal, something I’ll never forgive him, or his media productions for.

Together with the usual low grade bootlicking Labour media, the balance had been tilted favourably towards Labour.
.

Am I for independence? Yes and no.

Yes the idea of divorcing ourselves from Westminster is attractive, but, having seen the absolute scum who infest Holyrood, the attraction is merely idealistic. I hover with uncertainty between which I think is the lesser of two evils, but the decision is made much easier by a quick dose of First Minister’s questions from Holyrood. You really wouldn’t believe how dreadful that is.

Do I foresee it? Well that depends upon your definition of independence. Scotland, as an individual economic entity, is not viable. Alex Salmond, bloated, devious, self-serving little **** that he is, has accepted that and has already spoken of his ambitions as a statesman within the EU. This was in the context of preventing Blair becoming President, as, of course, Salmond will be all-powerful in the EU. As Scotland would be economically dependent upon the EU, subject to EU legislation and a very, very small fish in an increasingly septic pond, it will not be independent in any way. Salmond might be able to claim it is, one day, but I suspect, if a straight answer can be given to a straight question, he will not receive a mandate.

So right, Phil.

But you saw how the media took its revenge last Autumn after Bean misled them on the election. They immediately turned on him. There’s an unwritten bargain between politicians and journos – a symbiotic relationship.

To what extent is there lingering resentment in the BBC over the Dr Kelly / Gilligan affair? Bliar and Campbell set about the Beeb when, for once, the Beeb had done a good job in unearthing the total dishonesty at the heart of Bliar’s government.

Maybe that was the seminal point when it turned against Labour?

“The Tories upset a certain media magnet during the 90s”

Wasn’t it the Tories who changed the law about multimedia ownership? That was not in the public interest, though I appreciate the commercial advantages.

Mrs T – “Maybe that was the seminal point when it turned against Labour?”
I think probably that and the realisation that these clowns were going to implode sooner or later and the media would seem culpable too. Only the Beeb seems not to have got that message, and is bent on suicide. Were I Cameron, I would oblige them forthwith.

Sheumais, thanks, that is similar to my own thinking, the Tribalist Party under Salmond, who is indeed just as you describe couldn’t organise a drinks party in a distillery, but then the whole political edifice in Scotland is inherently corrupt, and unbelievably incompetent. The trouble is they, like the benefit classes, and holders of govt non-jobs have never had to pay for their own excesses.

I confess to a sneaking anticipation of schadenfreude if and when the secessionists get their way. All the talk of Scottish oil – well if that’s what they want, they can have it in exchange for being treated just like any other EUSSR member. If the happy day were to come that England escaped the EU, it would be even more amusing.
Pity though that it should come to it, but I feel it is now probably the only way.

“unbelievably incompetent”

Did you hear about the SNP’s pledge on primary school sizes? They promised to reduce class sizes by providing more teachers. They didn’t give any though to the consequences of that,as they didn’t plan to cull the children, so there would be a requirement to provide more classrooms too. Funny, their budget provision is more than 900% short. Calling them merely incompetent is paying them a considerable compliment.

If Scotland gains Salmond’s Independence, I predict things will become extremely nasty, very quickly. Do you think Salmond has realised that the quality of his opponents would rise considerably (all things being realtive)?

‘c’ & sheumais

If you ever travelled by train across Europe before the borders were dismantled, it was always entertaining when the train stopped and the (armed) border guards came on to inspect passports. I did this several times travelling between Germany & Poland. Inevitably someone got handcuffed and escorted off the train!

Imagine that happening every day at Berwick!!! “Sorry, Mr Brown, there’s a warrant out for your arrest in England, come with us please……”

Has anyone noticed that for once, this evening, there’s been an uninterrupted intelligent blog discussion on DT Blogs?

“Just rejoice”, as the great lady once said.

“uninterrupted intelligent blog”

Where?

Sheumais – I saw this on the other blog -
” …if Scotland no longer sends MPs to Westminster, there will be a lot of very experienced and reasonably able politicians to make life a great deal tougher for him in Holyrood.” – and was about to take issue with it but see that you have qualified it above with a relativity quotient!

No I don’t think Salmond can think that far, but he will also be able to point out the taint of catastrophic failure and incompetence that will attach to these rejects, and having escaped the quality control microscope himself so far, will probably weather it, at least for some time.

BTW What of, or whither the delightful Tommy Sheridan and his sticky-fingered wife (allegedly!!)?

Yes Mrs T, isn’t it peaceful and pleasant!

Strange that they both disappeared at the same time. Shame I was looking forward to DD’s answer to my question (ha!).

Wonder if they were instructed to cease by Labour central command? Or perhaps there was some kind of shot across the bows from the DT. Maybe the deletions finally got to them…

I personally highlighted about five abusive or defamatory posts, I wonder how many were highlighted by others. Would be useful to know so that if another assault is suffered the necessary countermeasures are understood.

I’m not quite sure where the perjury charges lie with the delightful Sheridans, but, when last I heard, she’s been cleared of the theft charges and returned to work and I think he might be reading law, perhaps because he defended himself so effectively. Did I say scum before…?

i had to qualify my comment re the “kwality” of the respective representatives, but you must remember Labour have had limited resources for a while and some of those with Westminster seats are considerably more able than their Holyrood counterparts. If you remove Salmond from the equation (I don’t care how), SNP have nothing. Salmond will be vilified by the media too, just as Blair and Brown were, eventually.

David in Rome

Yep – I flagged several too, and I also complained about the blogs being destroyed by them. With posts getting deleted left, right & centre it was impossible to engage in any dialogue at all.

Who knows, could all just be coincidence. But a marked improvement this evening; we obviously are better off without them. Lovely thread from Iain Martin that has evolved into a discussion on gas generation for internal combustion engines!

It’s a shame there is no reasonable defence to be made for Labour. I know David and Q were becoming increasingly obnoxious, which I did try to persuade them wasn’t the way, but neither approached the arrogant ignorance of the unlamented Hazel Tree. He/she/it typified the New Labour style of accusing others of what he/she/it was guilty of and produced the most amazing information accompanied by a plainly obvious lack of understanding.

Scum sounds about right to me Sheumais. Was she cleared? I thought BA just declined to press charges?

David in Rome – they liaise, and work a shift pattern, hence my charge, always denied, that they are professional trolls. I think it would be difficult for thre DT to miss the amont of flags, but you never know. I was flagging half a dozen a day of the more egregious ones.

“Was she cleared?”

I think so. She was reported to be back at work anyway. You’ll understand that I prefer not to dwell upon the Sheridans’ any longer than I have to.

Good night all

Mrs Trellis

Yes, just caught up on the comments.

I’ve a feeling that Q’s most recent ID may have been pulled, hence the air of civility.

As Sheumais was intimating earlier, it’s a shame we can’t calm things down and exchange comments without the animosity and name calling.

Though I’m to the political right, I do believe that it’s good to exchange ideas with those of opposing views.
.

Phil – no they are still extant. Their usual habit when convalescing is to wait until lights out, and then come back and have a one-on-one whispering session swopping secrets and giggling together.

Night Sheumais.

Phil – I was reasonably happy to engage with them, but the recent tactic of flagging posts all over the place and getting them deleted was the end as far as I was concerned. It destroyed everything. Even harmless, amusing posts got deleted – lots of the war veterans stuff, for example, that most people were OK with.

Tonight has been a joy – lots of good dialogue – happy to sit and read what others have had to say, too.

Anyway, away to bed now – so goodnight all.

45Govt

Well, I’ve not seen them posting for a while, and Q not since this morning.

I’ll make a move off myself now, I’ve a busy day tomorrow.

Goodnight!

Beans on toast soon, but not too soon.
.

Sleep well everybody.

David in rome: ‘So, you do support Sir Ian Blair and the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes. You do support the Iraq war and how Blair got Britain into it’

You had no justification to make this comment.
It was completely untrue (but that doesn’t stop you and your ilk attempting, and failing to call me a liar)

Now I suggest that you come up with a better explanation other than what amounts to ‘you support Labour so I assumed that you would support Ian Blair and the War in Iraq’. I do not believe that even you are that dumb.
Now how about that apology !!

Phil kean: ‘45Govt
Well, I’ve not seen them posting for a while’

Phil you won’t. I believe that 45Govt was banned for over-aggressive postings !

However if you go to Drunk-disorder.com you might catch 45Govt there. Funnily enough 45Govt’s postings do not appear out of place there !!

THE PARABLE OF LITTLE MISS HORNER AND THE SPIDER

Well lookee here, what did I predict – everybody’s gone home so plucky Miss dumDDdum comes out of hiding, stamps her feet, shakes her little fist and throws insults and challenges into the ether.
What a sad, craven, malevolent little brownie you are. LOL.

David Dee August 04, 2008 01:12 AM GMT

I did not and have never called you a liar.

You took the quote out of context.

The issue of Institutional Murder and Iraq on Labour’s watch is so important anyone who supports Labour as unequivocally as you do is supporting the regime that is responsible for these events and should condemn them (Labour). You do not condemn them. Your moral inconsistency is clear.

David in Rome: ‘So, you do support Sir Ian Blair and the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes’

You made the above statement which is clearly untrue.
To suggest that because somebody supports a particular party they support every issue that that party espouses is sooo ridiculous that even an idiot, never mind aseemingly fairly well educated man like yourself,
would not use it to support an argument.
Stop digging and apologise. You were wrong and you were caught out !

David Dee August 04, 2008 08:51 AM GMT

You asked me to condemn awful language in blogs. I did so.

I think I would have less difficulty with your statement if you were prepared to condemn a succession of Labour Home secretaries that have guided the policing regime in the country, put in role the current commissioner of the Met, and then failed to remove him when he so evidently failed. By this failure to act they are supporting him and giving a clear message that institutional murder (is OK) – we’ll protect you.

You have clearly stated that you did not support Sir Ian Blair. I asked you if you still do.

I now ask you if you will condemn those Home Secretaries that have and continue to support Sir Ian Blair.

All

I don’t suppose I am going to get the tip of the iceberg exposed in this, it is just too much to hope for…

Sorry folks this one is obviously going to play on. Hopefully you can enjoy some tranquility on other blogs in the meantime.

David in Rome: ‘I think I would have less difficulty with your statement’

if you accepted the fact that you jumped into judgement as to what my answer would be prior to actually knowing it. Now that you do know it, with regards to Menezes, and it differs from your ‘assumption’ you try to gloss around it with evasions. You are allowing Phil Kean to seduce you with his principles.
My consistent view on the death of Menezes, an innocent person, is that somebody is responsible. From the people who shot him, through Dicks and up to Ian Blair and I would be happy for any or all of them to be held accountable.
However if I am to understand your ‘logic’ Gordon Brown is responsible for Menezes death.
So does it follow that Brown is responsible for the death of Baha Mousa, or does that responsibility rest with the animals who inflicted over 90 injuries before killing, with Mendonca, or the then Chief of staff General Jackson.
Again with ‘Bloody sunday’ was the Tory administration respopnsible for the 14 innocent lives lost as a result or does the responsibility rest with the soldiers on the ground, or with their then second-in command General Jackson (what him again !).

The general expansion of your logic would be most helpful !

David Dee August 04, 2008 10:26 AM GMT

“The general expansion of your logic would be most helpful !”

No, you miss the point, I know you never stated that you agreed with the killing of De Menezes, quite the contrary, and I applaud this moral stance particularly when there were so many disgusting things being said, like “if he hadn’t been here it wouldn’t have happened to him”.

You continue however to repeat my words but refuse to accept the overall context, which is culpability on the part of the Labour administration.

Obviously the buck has to stop somewhere. It is arguable that prior home secretaries such as Charles Clark did not know that Sir Ian and his organisation would make such gross mistakes and so cannot be held responsible.

Subsequently however there can be no excuse, despite calls for his resignation Charles Clark and following Home Secretaries have supported Sir Ian and amazingly, the commander directly responsible for the disastrous operation has even been promoted. This gives a clear message to the Met and other police forces, a message I am severely uncomfortable with, and I imagine that you are too.

“However if I am to understand your ‘logic’ Gordon Brown is responsible for Menezes death.”.

Only in the sense of collective cabinet responsibility, clearly he was not in the line of command when the event occurred, However he could do something to right the subsequent wrongs by insisting his Home Secretary invites Sir Ian to step down.

You use a number of interesting parallels such as Bloody Sunday. To give you an idea of where I stand let’s discuss the Falklands. Margaret Thatcher deserves praise for showing the determination to and winning the war, I would argue however that she deserves even greater condemnation that it occurred in the first place. The policy of her government was a big factor in hostilities occurring. Should she have resigned as Peter Carrington did, maybe. Is there an element of doubt that her governments policy was the total cause? Yes. Have they done enough reasonably to ensure it doesn’t happen again, Yes I think so.

With events we are always talking with hindsight, however judgments after the event cannot claim that defence. Labour continue to support Sir Ian. They should not.

David
when I wrote ‘total cause’ I should have written ‘major cause’.
D.

David in Rome, interesting logic again.

I ask about ‘institutional’ killings in respect of Baha Mousa and Bloody Sunday. You respond with an explanation relating to the Falklands war.

Was my question a bit toooo hard then.
Or are you going to respond together with your apology ???

Or are you as requested, going to give your views on Bloody Sunday and Baha Mousa ?

Since this now seems to have concentrated on Ian Blair and his continued support from the government, can anyone shed any light upon the story that Ian Blair provided a police car with “Labour” emblazoned upon it at the last general election?

Unfortunately UK police and other government personnel have shot people to death by mistake on and off for many years now.

Thank you Sir Ian Blair for reducing the chances of such recurrences in London by the work you have done over the past few years.

Sheumais – they did, and did not deny it.

David in Rome – you will NOT get a straight answer to an exceedingly straight question from Dee.

“Labour continue to support Sir Ian. They should not.”

It is blindingly simple as you say. The administration under which this PC PC chump was appointed have had more than ample opportunity to accept that he is, like Gordon Brown, totally unsuited and inadequate for the job to which he has been over-promoted. Dee feels this in his bones, but simply cannot bring himself to enunciate it, and thus shed unwelcome light on the machinations of his beloved project. It is Nu-Labour policy to promote failure – Margaret Beckett and Enver Hodge are two from the political scene, and the hapless Cmdr Dick was promoted in the same way as the two officers who shot dead an unarmed man on the say so of a phone call from a drunk in a pub.

So Dee’s answer is to try and divert the discussion to ancient history in Londonderry and one of his pet peeves (and mine as it happens) Gen Jackson.

The increasingly fatuous and brain-dead Boreon the Insignificant offers the standard blanket “if we did it, it’s got to be good, innit?”

“Thank you Sir Ian Blair for reducing the chances of such recurrences in London by the work you have done over the past few years.”

This fool would be perfect as one of those back bench sheep at PMQs who say “would the Rt Hon PM agree with me that he is doing the best of all possible jobs, and showing the world..blah blah”

David Dee August 04, 2008 11:40 AM GMT

David, do you always have to reply with such an obnoxious tone?

You asked me to explain my logic, I did just that.

If you are interested in the answer to your specific questions: “Baha Mousa” – I don’t know the details and so am unable to pass judgement. “Bloody Sunday” again was a long time ago, and I have little knowledge of it, and have not followed the enquiry. However it seems to me that the troops on the ground were ill-disciplined and reacted hugely excessively to an event causing a tragic loss of life.

Was their firing justified – I very much doubt it, though there have I understand been claims that they were fired on beforehand – I don’t know. Did the authorities know beforehand that they would react in this fashion? I doubt it. Could they have given clear guidelines to prevent it from happening – rules of engagement – they should have, did they, I don’t know. After the event did they do anything to stop it happening again, I presume so as nothing similar has happened subsequently – to my knowledge.

Subsequently did they cover up the guilty (if they were guilty), I just don’t know, but if they did (it being after the event) I would absolutely condemn it and again as it involved the loss of innocent lives those responsible for the cover up or for those who did the cover up should go.

Now how about you responding to my earlier simple questions.

Baron Laurence de Qu… August 04, 2008 11:44 AM GMT

“Unfortunately UK police and other government personnel have shot people to death by mistake on and off for many years now.”

So thats alright then???????

cyclicrate August 04, 2008 12:22 PM GMT

“c” – thanks for the support. I welcome it.

“David in Rome – you will NOT get a straight answer to an exceedingly straight question from Dee.

“Labour continue to support Sir Ian. They should not.”

It is blindingly simple as you say. The administration under which this PC PC chump was appointed have had more than ample opportunity to accept that he is, like Gordon Brown, totally unsuited and inadequate for the job…”

Couldn’t agree more.

… answers on a blindingly small postage stamp.

Silence

David in Rome – not surprised are you? They throw the stones and run away. They’ll be back when you’ve all gone to bed, saying “if only that David in Rome, pondy, and Sheumais were here, we’d show ‘em” !!!

cyclicrate

Not in the least bit surprised. I see the skirmishers have gone elsewhere now, but still employing the one remaining armament – a rather dilapidated pea-shooter called IHT, funny how often it is unholstered and funny how everyone quakes in fear.

Like you I was convinced that HT was paid to blog (perhaps from London mayoral funds given the timing of her demise). She displayed a certain breadth and doggedness that these two just don’t approach. They however both seem to have an overdeveloped desire to be despised and scorned, perhaps a result of a battered childhood, one they seek to relive, where failure and the curses that come with it is a comfort blanket?

Wish there was the equivalent of the Usenet Killfile, I don’t have the discipline of Pondy in particular to just skip over them.

D in R – I was right, but they have appeared in tandem on a newer blog the one on Cameron – don’t rush, they have nothing to say, but it may amuse you to watch the girls at play!

cyclicrate August 05, 2008 01:06 AM GMT

Must say, I’m coming around to your viewpoint that reasoned argument is completely wasted, they just come back with abuse and evasion (when they don’t run off).

Still I think they enjoy abuse, stunted childhoods and all that.

David Dee August 03, 2008 09:26 AM GMT

Dunroman is yellow methinks !!
——————————————————
I think it might be concluded that hypocrisy reigns among Gord’s little helpers.

The question was quite simple, do you or do you not support those Home secretaries who continue to support Sir Ian Blair – who you so rightly said should have resigned.

D in R – the deafening sound of silence as McCavity Dee makes his usual response to a taxing question. He is very like his hero the monocular loser isn’t he?

May I suggest you do a Paxo on him a la the Michael Howard grilling? Every time you spot the flash of yellow as he turns and flees, repost that very question. It is after all a simple enough one, well within even dumdum’s abilities to comprehend. In fact I may do it myself too!!

Cyclicrate, excellent idea, and please be my guest – off to Bologna tomorrow to get some pasta so won’t be posting for a while.
D.