The PBR could be the best Tory PPB ever

Cameron must NOT attack the detail

of this corrupt and deceitful so called PBR – instead he must set a precedent and attack Labour over their determination to act, not in the nation’s interest, but in their own.

Never has politics sunk so low. I certainly don’t remember a time when a failed government would use any mechanism, bar Marshall law, to cling on to power.

Not only should Cameron resist attacking the ’substance’ of Gordistair’s deceitful PBR – but he must abandon any plans he had about participating in a TV ‘debate’ with Gordon.
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Phil- Cameron can do what he likes- he will still get the finger from the electorate.

Who can believe anything cast iron Dave says. The heir to Blair is just that.

Some people will vote labour because they always do- ditto for the conservatives.

But look at the groups both have pissed off- you can forget the Lib dems- everyone else has-

So what happens to the large mass of votes that are left?

Let us hope for the hung parliament- this should get rid of dave and his mates at any rate.

EU-AGW-NHS-

I don’t know about you lot, but I am prepared to wait and see what is actually in the PBR!

wow sent itself before I could finish- you get the picture though.

phil kean: “but he must abandon any plans he had about participating in a TV ‘debate’ with Gordon”

Were you not aware that as soon as Cameron found out that it was not to be a ’soundbite’ debate but one over a few meetings discussing policies in detail, he withdrew !!!

phil kean: “but he must abandon any plans he had about participating in a TV ‘debate’ with Gordon”

Were you not aware that as soon as Cameron found out that it was not to be a ’soundbite’ debate but one over a few meetings discussing policies in detail, he withdrew !!!

unsuRprised: “wow sent itself before I could finish”

And I thought that it was only my comments that got ‘pulled’from m,e before I had completed them.
However amends have now been made and my comments get pulled from me at least twice prior to my completing !!

“the Tories should hope that the PBR could turn out to be their best PPB ever, a galvanising moment of epiphany when wavering voters tip decisively towards ‘time for change’.”

But, unfortunately for the Tories, fronted by the seemingly sneering face of Boy George !!!

Welcome to the dave Dee show!

I mean you’re welcome to the Dave Dee show……he’s very wearing.

David Dee,

Do you get paid for writing all these silly comments ?

And, if not, why do you keep on piissing into the wind ?

Brown is all over the show with this action plan and that action plan and spending here there and every where but nary a word as to how he is tackling the crisis.

No, he is ducking the issue and committing the ultimate of sins, doing nothing (of anything closely resembling action) to reduce the problem but merely to borrow more.

Thankfully he has thrown his weight behind Copenhagen, the kiss of death. There is nothing in the Copenhagen yakking that addresses the fundamental problem, the ever increasing number of people adding to the greenhouse gasses. Our contribution is but a small percentage but it is adding to what is obviously a warming cycle.

He is dissembling again to give him more time to dither and not take a decision. Darling will only tinker on the outer margins, achieving nothing, but adding to the class war strategy.

Brown’s (and Bliar’s) spending was haphazard and wasteful and he has no idea where to begin to make savings. He doesn’t want to, it will alienate his voters so he goes for class wars, tax rises on the bankers (only it would not be limited to bankers, it will fall on the middle (lower to higher) and upper echelons, but never his lords, ladies and MPs) but to anyone with a few pieces of brass to rub together.

The tax on bankers will only raise a few hundred million, whereas he needs hundreds of billions so he and Cameron need to raise a lot, with swingeing tax rises, and Brown will be ruthless, he needs to cripple the money earning capacity of the UK before he leaves bunker 10, but he has no proposal to emulate Hitler. He wants to be around to gloat over what he has achieved.

He has a lot more damage to do in the months left to him.

James, you surely mean ‘How much Do you get paid for writing all these silly comments ?’

David Dee

“Policies in detail”?

I suppose only you could have come up with that. Now, I must try to work out why you said it.

Was it…….

* Sarcasm?
* Irony?
* Humour?
* Ignorance?
* Stupidity?
* Bloody mindedness?
* Naivety?

David, how about you debate Brown’s ‘policies’ with me, and see how far you get?
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Dopey Davey,
why don’t you sit down somewhere quiet and try very very hard to think of something (?) that you can say that you disagree with, regarding our National embarrassment, AKA the “prime minister” and his egregious “government”?
It could take a while for you to overcome that innate problem that you have, recognising and accepting the truth.

unsurprised

The only way you’ll find out the absolute importance of this election is if Labour win it, or there’s a ‘hung Parliament’ – which amounts to the same thing.

Outside of war, the last time the British people experienced really bad times was during Labour’s 1970s bout of maladministration – so they have no concept of what we’re in for if EU/Labour win again.

I can’t stress just how bad things would be if we don’t elect a Tory government in 2010. Even if we only look at it as a stopping measure – to halt EU/Labour’s march towards economic and social catastrophe.

VOTE TORY!
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We know that this PBR will be more about playing cheap party politics than resolving the country’s financial mess brought about by Brown, one of the worst chancellors and prime ministers in our history.

My worry is that the PBR, by delaying the ineviteable public spending cuts that must take place, will accelerate the next fiscal crisis. Brown will then deliberately hide and distort the facts, and call an early GE just before the s**t hits the fan.

I’m beginning to think Clown winning in May 2006 may not be too bad. After all, the IMF will have to step in to run Britain within 18 months, giving Labour their own ‘Black Wednesday’.

If ‘call me Dave’ Dave wins, he risks a single term government as the Tories become unpopular trying to sort out Labour’s ’scorched earth’. Remember Mrs T was onto a loser until the ‘Falklands Factor’!

I’m beginning to think Clown winning in May 2006 may not be too bad. After all, the IMF will have to step in to run Britain within 18 months, giving Labour their own ‘Black Wednesday’.

If ‘call me Dave’ Dave wins, he risks a single term government as the Tories become unpopular trying to sort out Labour’s ’scorched earth’. Remember Mrs T was onto a loser until the ‘Falklands Factor’!

Doh, Clown winning on May 6th, I meant.

@ Phil

I think you mean martial law.

Marshall aid was what Atlee’s labour government pissed away in the late 1940s.

Thanks, Crusty

I do it all the time – a sort of word confusion when I’m typing fast.
My most common error is getting ‘President’ and ‘precedent’ mixed up.
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Labour will never learn from their past mistakes, tax the wealthy to excess and the wealthy will either find ways to avoid the tax, or become domiciled in another country. Class war and the politics of envy have not worked in Labour’s past, nor will the work now. Much as I abhor this present government I will not vote for any party led by Cast-iron Dave.

The government are gambling that those to be taxed at 50% will stay in the country. Why should they give more hard earned cash to the exchequer to waste on projects that don’t produce any results? If the government curbed their reckless, spendthrift ways they would find that there is sufficient income without the need to raise taxes at all.

If the government were really keen to make a difference to the low paid they would reinstate the 10% tax rate.

IT HAS GONE VERY QUIET on the Dopey Davey front, I thought perhaps it would. He has a great problem finding anything at all to disagree with when it comes to the consumer of nasal detritus who is our current “prime minister”. His usual course of action is to ignore the problem and go away for a while. He might reappear later, like when the local throws out.

I know the countrys in a mess I know that Labour have brought this on us.But I cannot forgive Cameron for his double dealing on the EU.so its still UKIP for me.

Toboo, much as I sympathise with your views on Cameron and co, if you do not vote for him you are effectively voting labour back in. Vote against Labour by all means, but make that vote against them, or its five more years of the fascist Brown.

So, the people who had NOTHING to do with bankrupting the country have to pay to bail the fools out?
I hope THEY ALL LEAVE so the numpties will be forced to look elsewhere for help.
Why should people who work hard (there are some left after all) give over everything to the BROWNSLIME to waste.
I suggest that all labour MPS be required to give back 50% of their salaries, for doing nothing,to help old slimeball out!
I can not stand any more of this nonsense.

I think Benedict has caught the mood of people who live beyond politics.
I don’t blame our Darling for this horrible situation. His task is thankless, and he has embarked on mission impossible.
Stalinist Brown wrecked Britain’s public finances, knowingly and with malice aforethought as he indulged his teenage fantasies, a bit like allowing an adult to treat British Rail like a toy train set.
Whoever wins the general election faces mission impossible. The Treasury’s growth and revenue figures are hopelessly theoretical. They exclude the off balance sheet horror show that is unfunded state sector pensions equal to 65-85% of GDP, depending on whose figure you believe. They exclude PFI, another off balance sheet fortune that lumbers future taxpayers with today’s state building projects.

Forget old-style class warfare. It means nothing to most people beyond Westminster. There’s only one venal class, one enemy of the people: the political class in its current form. None of them had the wit or the will to challenge Brown’s fantasy finance when he was Chancellor. They lauded him or sought to excel at his ’sharing the proceeds of growth’.
What growth? It was expansion built on low inflation (due to Asian exports), low interest rates (due to Greenspan’s misjudgment), and unprecedented levels of risky loans available to anyone (due to the previous points).

Wednesday’s set piece is likely to be the final nail in the coffin, I think, and confirm the worst fears and warnings of the IMF, EU, BIS, OECD et cetera.
Iceland-on-Thames draws nearer. It’s going to be a very torrid time on the FX markets.

Anyhoooo. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. Ice-skating by moonlight at Somerset House in London is a happy diversion from the frozen debt markets to come in Britain. Brown was warned, repeatedly. He bullied his own party, the Treasury, the civil service, and others.

FX markets will say FU to the Prime Mentalist, imo.

According to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation (full information here: http://tiny.cc/JD792):

Based on views of members of the public, a single person in Britain needs to earn at least £13,900 a year before tax in 2009, in order to afford a basic but acceptable standard of living. A couple with two children need to earn £27,600.

So if you can dodge by on that 4 times as much or more than 4 times as much is a lot of dosh.

According to results quoted here by the BBC:

http://tiny.cc/JD914

The average income, before taxes, is around £25,000 per year. Or 25% of the amount where the new tax level is to be introduced. Getting into that kind of income bracket is such a leap it is not aspiration that is needed but family connections, school connections, an expensive university education in a high skill and high requirement area, in fact lots of things that are usually provided by better off parents and have little to do with the drive of the individual.

Not only should the better off at the level mentioned be taxed more; the less well off on 25% of the earnings of the rich, who are just as likely to have aspirational children, should be paying less so they can give their off-spring chances that the rich can dish out with ease.

Aspiration? Depends on whether the high pay is for real endeavour or for being in the right little clique.

The BBC article again:
Recruitment firm Reed’s salary report for 2009 suggested the average salary for finance directors of financial services firms was £94,000, for pharmaceuticals firms £89,000 and for manufacturing firms £78,000.

I don’t think it takes aspiration and unique knowledge to do that kind of a job. Connections maybe.

John Duckham
http://johnduckham.tk

Phil Kean on Dec 6th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

Thanks, Crusty

I do it all the time – a sort of word confusion when I’m typing fast.
My most common error is getting ‘President’ and ‘precedent’ mixed up.

Try not to get too excited; it is only a game and there are no winners.
John Duckham
http://johnduckham.tk

The only surprising thing about ‘unsurprised’ is he gives away his motive – to keep Brown in power.

The fact is Mr Unsurprised that it was Cameron who kept his promise and Brown and the LibDems who broke theirs.
THEY have passed the legislation which gave us Lisbon and THEY who refused a referendum.
The law and the treaty has been passed and a referendum after that would be risible.

But your vicious hatred of conservatives is clear. As is your ignorance.

The PBR? Dressed up as taxing the rich it will be a hammer to the middle classes and will be cheered on by the LibDems.

It will pretend that the way to reduce the deficit is by taxation and not cutting spending.
If still in power after the election (which is what will happen if ‘Unsurprised’ has his way) it will be very different.

Ladies and Gentlemen, professor Watson of East Anglia University has a word for Dave Dee.

Duckham,
I don’t think the average salary you mention is applicable in the real world. Britain’s finances and figures such as you quote relied on the mighty rich man’s world of banking which is highly unlikely to contribute as much again to public revenue via tax as it did before 2008 for reasons that are global, not just Brown’s fantasy finance.

If you excluded the income and tax from the housing bubble and the finance sector, then the average UK salary among ordinary people would be nearer to £18,000 p.a. It’s shamefully low, considering the cost of living in this country. It’s the result of a spoilt brat political class that enriched itself rather than building a better educated, better skilled economy. The people were willing, and able. The political class were narcissists.

Also Duckham,
Re: Reeds data.
Just one real world example for you: my father the talented engineer who ran a major portion of a multinational pharmaceutical company started school in a one-room school house, taken there in a horse drawn carriage with other farm children. Yes, he did go on to a boys’ private school, funded by his grandfather, and University, funded by himself through his own efforts.
That’s aspiration. That’s real endeavour. That’s within the capability of the many, not just the few, although it is snuffed out by statist bureaucrats who want to treat adults like dependent children…so the statists feel superior…whilst enriching themselves at the expense of the masses.

My father’s ‘connections’ were synapses, a function of his brain power, not his political allegiance, something you seem to advocate. The State is the enemy of the people when it deems to be more knowing and powerful than the individuals and communities who live for themselves, and see the state as a mere tool, not a master.
It’s time for the State to be downsized, back to the level of its brain size: a mere tool.

cyndi: I agree with much of what you say. I did quite well too, despite my middle class upbringing and the disadvantages that gave me in the real world. I did not need the connections and in fact they would have worked against me. I don’t think the answer is to take examples like me or your Dad and assume everyone will react to challenges in the same way.

You are right about the self-enriching elite and the damage they have done to the chances of the less rich and I think they should be taxed more and poor farmers (not today maybe in Britain!) should be taxed less. The answer is not a tiny state but the balance has to be made by someone and I don’t see the market doing it and never have seen that, even before the recent increase in the power to enrich themselves fell disproportionately to a tiny group.

And how anyone can live on £18,000 a year I don’t know. When last in Britain I lived frugally and do not drink or socialise at all (there or here in Indonesia) but £18,000 would not have been a liveable wage in Britain, and I imagine many will be topped up by Working Tax Credit and be claiming Housing and Council Tax Benefits at least. Reduce the state from that situation and tell them to get by on their synapses and I think you would be wrong.
John Duckham
http://johnduckham.tk

Cyndi:
And you assume I have a political allegiance. I don’t. I am not inclined to be a Tory on much and therefore dislike New Labour, but on some things I am conservative and on others socialist. Overall I see a role for the state and how and from whom it gets its income is important. I find it wrong that effectively some very rich people pay tax at a rate similar to that at which their office cleaners are being taxed.
John Duckham
http://johnduckham.tk

duckham,
People like us could be good friends, and enjoy debate, however, the condition of Britain now is perilous. It is about to become Iceland-on-Thames.

You write about the ‘rich’ who should be taxed more. One point: the rich of today are only one or two generations removed from the poor of the past, and they probably relate to their forbears, deeply.

It’s not about the tax. It’s about fairness. Aspiration. Personal endeavour. The State is a tool, not a master.

Stalinist Brown has bankrupted Britain. The Royal Bank of Scotland will become known as the bank that broke Britain.

Derivatives are often a tax dodge, and RBS did that; Brown bailed them out; Britain is bankrupt.

It’s only a matter of a few months before the poor, the vulnerable, the least protected in Britain will be desperate for food, shelter, and heat because of Brown’s Stalinist political economy.

BTW, my father paid 90% + tax in the UK, and never complained because he thought it was the price of living in a community, but I think otherwise. If the state wants money, then it had better be competent in delivering services to the poor or…f*off.
I’m not poor, but I am not going to see my children live in a gilded cage, surrounded by the penury of children forsaken by complacent, dimwit adults, and statists.

Also Duckham,
British farmers have been in a depression for nearly a decade; the rural economy with all the community and life it gives to the unskilled is dying.
Yet smart ass city folk think a depression only matters when it affects their wallet, and their politics.

Hypocrisy profits for a short time. When Britain is on rations again due to the economic incompetence of its political class, then maybe British farmers might be understood.

I see Britain has been frozen out of France’s upcoming summit on the Common Agricultural Policy which profits France and impoverishes the UK that pays 30% more on its food bills because of CAP, and dumped its Commonwealth ally farmers because Heath the Horrible wanted to look big on the world stage, and so do his successors in the Westminster village of idiots.

I am a self-employed person doing reasonably well, working hard and managing to stay afloat. I also work online, so I have complete, global freedom of where to live and work.

I have no intention of handing over any more of my own time and money to pay the Labour Party to throw at the massive holes it has deliberately blown in the economy of this country over the past twelve years with its stupid, hubristic “abolition of boom and bust”, its constant betting against the future, its failure to provide for the unforeseeable. The unelected Brown and the ex-Trotskyite Darling can boom and spit about the “toffs” and the “rich” all they want: my grandparents were working class Labour voters who worked hard to better themselves and to give me the opportunity to make the most of my life. I am disgusted by the childish class warfare STILL being engaged in by these people. They would be ridiculous if they were not so disastrously harmful.

If the Labour Party wins the next election, I will simply leave and go and live somewhere else. I hope many others will do the same. Brown would no doubt counter that I am being “unpatriotic” – patriotism being a card he plays when it suits him, like capitalism, like Christianity, like Scottishness. On patriotism, I refer him to Johnson. Samuel, not Alan.

Cyndi: My comment on farmers in Britain was the typical townies one and I apologise for that. I don’t know enough about the British rural economy to argue the point but am sure the it is much more complicated than I made it appear.

And I agree that Britain is in a much more perilous state than is admitted by anyone. The economy is entirely out of balance and, I think, this has been caused by policies that started in the Thatcher era and were a reaction to the disasters of the wrecking of the industrial base caused in large part by the idiocy of unionised labour.

I have been arguing for a while, especially since the start of the ‘Climategate’ farce that Britain needs to regenerate an industrial base and support manufacturing because the financial sector is gone and its credibility with it; and banks without credibility are nothing.

The state should be kept under control by good democratic checks but it must set the parameters of tax and the priorities of expenditure on infrastructure and the economic development of the country. For instance we spend, in my opinion, far too much on aggression and could cut our so called ‘defence’ budget massively. This money and the firms and the people involved in the military complex affected could be re-directed effectively and quickly into research, development and installation of alternative energy methods that will assist in reducing the need for dependence on an oil supply that is becoming uneconomic to extract.

Nothing however will stop the further recession and halt the problems that Britain alone will face because of the idiocy of the policies of all governments since the 1980’s that have consistently narrowed the growth creating potential of the economy to its present parlous state. Britain is in deep trouble and anything done now is an Elastoplast to get through to the spring and the election. The second half of next year could, perhaps easily, see Britain back at the IMF for a loan. A big one.
John Duckham
http://johnpitcher.tk

Its time to start threatening Labour’s establishment that if they don’t run the government in the national interest then things like criminal investigations into the cabinet in office during the Iraq war will be put in the Conservative manifesto.

This attempt to destroy our country just out of spite needs to be very clearly punished.

I said it months ago and said it above, that the higher tax would not be limited to the bankers, but include what Zanuliebour consider the rich.

It has now been so reported that Darling is going to soak the higher levels of pay, but note the level, not to hit MPs and some ministers.

Now there is going to be more bad news in the budget, will will reflect on nearly all taxpayers.

Wait for the eco taxes, based on the fraud of Jones of east of England.

The Gulf in living standards in this country is approaching third world standards, and is far greater than in the States.
With this gulf in income comes increasingly centralised political power.
All things have a season, and the era of acceptance of huge remuneration for some and poverty for the many as their jopbs are exported to China is coming to an end.
Doctor’s salaries have been multiplied in the last few years.
Has their work output similarly increased?
How about the managers in the NHS?
This is a time to move towards narrowing differentials, and to hunt down the scams and evasions that mean that the effective tax rate on many of the richest is very low, as they move profits abroad, declare it to be capital gains, and so on ad nauseum.
I think Cameron gets it – increasing poverty for the many whilst some live the high life regardless will not be tolerated.
Even ‘The Telegraph’ should get with the program.
Widening differentials were only ever acceptable under the theory that wealth would ‘trickle down’.
What has trickled down is not wealth.

A rentier class relying on asset bubbles and soclialising it’s losses is not the same as entrepreneurship.

NOTHING
from Dopey Davey then?
–
Surprise Surprise.

Flightpath:”The fact is Mr Unsurprised that it was Cameron who kept his promise and Brown and the LibDems who broke theirs.”

If you believe that then I have a word for you but unfortunately the last time I used it it upset poor, sensitive JamesStruckoff so I will have to leave it to your vivid imagination !!!!

FOR SOMEONE
Who has sooooooo many opinions and soooooooo much to say about soooooooo many things, one would think that our Julian Clary soundalike could come up with just one criticism of this scummy “government” and its excruciating “leader”. But apparently not!

Does Benedict have any idea how rich people earning over £100,000 a year are considered by the majority of the public? £26k is the average wage in the UK. The AVERAGE wage. Therefore for everyone earning over £100k there are many, many more earning less than the average. Frankly 50% tax isn’t high enough – we should be talking about pay ceilings. How about revealing your salary Benedict – got a vested interest in the issue? I bet my wage against yours you do

Duckam

“Try not to get too excited; it is only a game and there are no winners.”

Maybe no winners here but several loosers, funny most of them have names with D in them.