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Beaten England set to take referee to IRB

By DUNCAN JOHNSTONE in London - Fairfax Media | Tuesday, 02 December 2008

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Thats the opposite team for you. Always have to complain about something.

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#1 Posted by Matt — 06:26 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
We have a lot of poor losers in sport today don't we. Once apon a time what the ref said was gospal now we need close sercuit TV's to catch him out. This is why I do not watch sport anymore

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#2 Posted by Lucy — 07:14 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
How can you tell when a plane load of english arrives at the airport?
Because when the pilot turns of the engines the whining doesn't stop.

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#3 Posted by Steve — 07:15 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
I cant understand why the english team thought McCaw should have been sin binned. He made the tackle got to his feet and picked up the ball no ruck was formed, there was only one other player over the tackle, that was another all black also on his feet. Do they not know the rules ?
Perhaps four men being sent off answers this question for me.

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#4 Posted by henry — 07:33 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
So I'm assuming that complaining about the ref is only allowed if you're an All Black. If the English take the "Sore Loser" tag, they'll only be taking it from the World Cup chokers who blamed their exit last year on the ref!! Pot - Kettle?

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#5 Posted by Murphy — 07:42 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Martin Johnson needs to stand in front of a mirror ! Rolland had the credibility to challenge some of the rubbish tactics that are Johnson trademarks. You will never see any other rugby team that works so hard to kill the ball in a ruck. When Johnson played he was the world's worst and hardly ever got reprimanded. No surprise it is now such a part of the English "game". Get rid of Johnson and England might well rise again !

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#6 Posted by Ian Barron — 07:43 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Cry baby Poms.

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#7 Posted by johnb — 07:57 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
It's Ironic All Blacks get a very bad display from a ref which knocks them out of a world cup and do we lodge a formal complaint with the IRB no England loose a test and they lodge a complaint. Finally a ref that has the guts to try a put an end to the slowing down of the game tactics cause they can't keep up with the pace of the game.

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#8 Posted by Neo — 09:00 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
It's funny how in defeat all we can do is blame the ref ourselves, and in victory bemoan the opposition for having a dig of their own. Isn't it about time we became a litte more gracious in both defeat AND victory ourselves, before being critical of others?

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#9 Posted by Darren — 09:11 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
just what i like the to see, England having a cry!

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#10 Posted by Callum — 09:15 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Paddy is doing the right thing but as usual he is going about it the wrong way. Before the scotland test he said that kind of infringing would be dealt to harshly, and we saw it within 10 minutes with Wayne Barnes, and i agree with him it is killing the game and if it takes 4 yellow cards to stop a team from playing negatively then so be it.
However it was part of there game before as much as the professional fouls are in basketball, there should have been a more direct instruction given in the off season to give them a chance to adapt.
I also don't accept that there should have been warnings these guys have known the rules since they were 5.

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#11 Posted by Jonathan — 09:25 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
zzz...

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#12 Posted by jawn — 09:28 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Well once again the engines have stopped but the whining continues will the poms every actual admit they are crap, and they need to stop importing and buying players into their game as all they are doing is importing a temporary style but other than the odd player (Riki why did you bother) wanting to play for them, they pretty much SUCK.

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#13 Posted by mark — 09:31 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Well it only gets worse for the English. To add to the descriptives - pathetic, miserable, awful, horrible, terrible, disturbing, grievous, sad, sorrowful, woeful, deplorable, lamentable, regrettable, miserable, piteous, pitiable, pitiful, poor, rueful, sorry, wretched.... they are now official cheats and sore losers. Good on the Ref, bad on the English for their boring cheating style of rugby.

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#14 Posted by nicky Research — 10:01 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Alain Rolland had a decent game, so I have no idea what England are moaning about??!! They deserved their 4 yellow cards and like the article states they were lucky not to have a few more. Referees who card cynical play no matter how many minutes are gone, are to be congratulated. Too often teams (including ABs) just get penalised for blatant illegal play. Rolland gave the English numerous chances to stay on the field (he talked to the captain about 5 times-one time stating "I'm dangerous in this area"!). Now just a few days before the match, I read an article about how the English assistant coach had stated they needed to 'border' on illegal play to beat NZ!! Hmmm...with that confession to the really have a case to question the referee?

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#15 Posted by Jarrod — 10:01 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #2

So you don't watch sport anymore, and yet you troll the internet for stories about sport so that you can point out that you don't watch sport anymore. Do you also comment on these games that you don't watch anymore? How is the radio coverage in La-La Land? Do the sport fairies still give minute by updates for people who don't watch sport anymore? Do you have a seeing eye dog that watches sport and barks score updates because you don't watch sport anymore? Sorry about the rant, I'm off to make comments about something I don't watch anymore on a website I don't visit anymore.

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#16 Posted by Paul — 10:12 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Hey Murphy, the AB camp were man enough to keep their mouth shut about the ref in their world cup exit, it was the rest of the country that were complaining. now you have the head of English rugby throwing his toys... typical... lol! dont hate... appreciate... lol

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#17 Posted by David Hopoi — 10:19 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
We copped up there a couple of years back and nearly lost the test with having three guys binned, and we didn't complain to the IRB.

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#18 Posted by Dan — 10:19 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #4

"Pot - Kettle"?? What a stupid thing to say, never did I hear an all-black complain about Wayne Barnes, sure he was villified by the NZ public (rightly so) but never (outwardly anyway) by our players or coach. What we do know however is that the French President was asked to stop talking so Graham Henry could congratulate the French players in the changing room afterwards.
Back to the English Rugby players, there has been quite some distance between the AB's and any Northern Hemisphere team for some time now. It has not become a matter of win or lose, its more like "can we do it whilst not letting them score a try?". This is a terrible indictment on the development of northern rugby. Its natural to complain when you constantly get your a** kicked. If England wish to stay competitive then put more effort/investment in resources & get stuck in, if not, then they should avoid complaining & bow out of the international scene.

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#19 Posted by Rangi — 10:45 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

here are the diffenrences (i'm assuming by your comments you didn't watch the game).
1. The Ref was right here
2. In cardif the main complaint was referees inaction on blatent fouls (which he saw because he warned the french)
3. The AB coaches didn't complain to the media
4. The poms are complaining that they were hard done by even though it is within the rules and paddy said refs will be tougher on cynical play
5. From the skill level shown in the game no one could say it cost them the game (let alone a big game)
Is that enough if you need more just watch a replay of the game

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#20 Posted by Jonathan — 11:10 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
#5 Murphy, um, I don't think so - Henry didn't as much as make a single comment on Wayne Barne's ref'ing in the world cup semi. Sure the rugby masses in this country had a whinge or three. But it's one thing for the general populus to complain, it's another thing entirely for top brass to be heard moaning and complaining.
Instead of looking at the ref the Brits need to look at their style of play. I'd suggest it would be much more productive in the long run.
The irony is all the pathetic nonsense that came out of the Isles, as this tour got underway, about how crap the ABs were.
One thing about the All Blacks, the have and always will be judged upon their performance on the paddock only. End of story. They haven't won the world cup (since the first) because they simply haven't been good enough on the day - every single All Black that has worn the jersey will admit to that.
You can blame the ref all you like - it won't change a thing. We learnt that last year. Grow up England.

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#21 Posted by Tyrrell — 11:10 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

here are the diffenrences (i'm assuming by your comments you didn't watch the game).
1. The Ref was right here
2. In cardif the main complaint was referees inaction on blatent fouls (which he saw because he warned the french)
3. The AB coaches didn't complain to the media
4. The poms are complaining that they were hard done by even though it is within the rules and paddy said refs will be tougher on cynical play
5. From the skill level shown in the game no one could say it cost them the game (let alone a big game)
Is that enough if you need more just watch a replay of the game

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#22 Posted by Jonathan — 11:12 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Oh dear me...The English are unhappy. It's is pretty obvious by the mystified looks on their faces that they don't understand the rules.What they get away with all season in the Heineken Cup and their domestic game, makes for a stodgy, set piece dominated game.If they are to improve, they need to get some more athleticism and skill into their game.They don't seem to learn do they?

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#23 Posted by Gary — 11:46 AM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Sinbinning has got out of hand, you get sent for just about anything now. However, I think the issue here is not that players are sin binned but the impact it has on the game. Playing 40 minutes one man down lessens the game as a contest and a spectacle. Better to use a Ice Hockey type scenario where the team can be down a player but if the oppostion scores you get the player back. Or send the player and let him be replaced, one is the team penalty and one is the player penalty. We could make player penalties higher with suspensions like soccer, four yellow cards gets you a match ban. Fans don't want to have their team take hollow victories and players would surely want to play against full teams. If the rugby is in the entertainment business it can't be one sided.

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#24 Posted by John - Kiwi — 12:52 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Was it somewhat ironic that the man that greeted each England player as they left teh field was Wayne Barnes?

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#25 Posted by John - Kiwi — 12:55 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Yet again, the Kiwi media put more spin on a story than a Shane Warne googly. England are seeking clarifications from the IRB, they are NOT complaining to the IRB. Maybe they'll use these clarifications to help eradicate the needless penalties they gave away at the weekend!
In response to the poster above who states that England should stop 'importing and buying' players. Have a look at the latest All Blacks squad sunshine, you'll count at least 6 of them weren't born in NZ....I wonder how good you'd be without them!
I must say being a Pom, I do find the 'one sided' sports journalism in this country very amusing, it obviously rubs off on the population as you seem to believe your rugby team can walk on water. Get over yourselves, you're a good team but you'll never be regarding as one of the great teams unless you stop choking every 4 years!

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#26 Posted by Matt — 12:55 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

When Ted kept his job they presented to the NZRU no less than 19 infringements recorded on the game video that were not penalised (most of them offside). This was in the 2nd half alone of the Cardiff game.
I still maintain the bookmakers and Barnes had something going. How do you make that many mistakes in a row? It's actually statistically virtually impossible. Yeh I know rant rant...
The England game had absolutely no resemblance to the 1/4 final which the AB's should have won in spite of the worst refereeing in history.
The England game put simply was a thrashing. The France vs Ab's quarterfinal was a nail biter the All Blacks should have won if they had used the right tactics.
But that said let's string Barnes up at the opening ceremony of the 2011 RWC :-}

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#27 Posted by colin — 12:56 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

murphy, just to correct you on who complained about the ref following the world cup choke fest...it was the fans & the press first and foremost, and then the AB's...and only after carefully scrolling through footage clearly highlighting a certain Mr Barnes short comings. i agree that the ab's have a habit of choking at world cup time, which takes place over 6 weeks every 4 years. the great thing however is the ab's kick everyones butt in between cups and i know what i would prefer...4 years of ecstasy! as for england...well i've never seen a bigger bunch of whinging poofs who in my book are not even worthy of having been world champions given they've practically lost every game since 2003...pot, kettle, slammed (on a grand scale)

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#28 Posted by chris — 13:01 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

I am a New Zealander and a huge AB's fan, but I am going to have to agree with Murphy on this one...... cant complain.
Duncan should have stayed quiet one this one.

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#29 Posted by Gary — 13:02 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Actually Murphy, neither the All Blacks nor the coaching team ever complained about the 1/4 final referee. The media did... and so did lots of upset Kiwis. Most of us however except that however poor the AB display last year in that game... WE BLEW IT
We certainly never went to the IRB and laid a complaint.
Complaining to the IRB wont hide the fact that England are shite, and were lucky Carter left his kicking boots at home, otherwise the All Blacks would have cracked 50 points.
England were thumped by an All Black side that played only half average to be fair.

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#30 Posted by Chris — 13:13 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Alain Rolland did an outstanding job under trying circumstances - he was clear, he was measured, and he was discriminating. Players weren't sin-binned for the infringements of others - most of those binned had clear first and final warnings. Importantly, Rolland gave the impression that he didn't like having to penalize England warning them that they were "killing themselves." What a refreshing contrast with that amateur Wayne Barnes who is heavy-handed, aloof, and very fallible. I don't know that Rolland is the best ref in the world, but he's certainly the best I've seen in these Northern Hemisphere tours. I just wish Paddy could fined a few more like him.

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#31 Posted by Jekyll — 13:14 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Er... sore losers, complaining about the referee. I think there are some people in NZ with very short memories!
The rules are bust and need fixing. Breakdown is and always has been a joke.
Rediculous one eyed journalism.

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#32 Posted by Paul — 13:16 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
I have a sore stomach, i cant stop laughing.... somebody tell me how the whole of NZ can STILL be moaning about the World Cup exit at the hands of the ref (oh no, not their fault)but when England (who have been in the last 2 finals by the way) have a moan they are branded sore losers...
On another note, the IRB should amend the rules, players should not be allowed to represent the national team unless they were born there, lets see how the AB's get on then...

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#33 Posted by Brad — 13:34 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Response to #5
I think there is a subtle difference. Rolland proactively dished out penalties. Wayne Barnes, in a spectacular case of selective blindness, did not penalise the French once in a second half where they spent most of their time desperately defending and infringing.

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#34 Posted by Andrew — 13:40 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Lol exactly.
And johnathon, whilst the differences may or may not be as you say they are - the point is that we as the losing team complained about the ref's decisions, the English are doing no worse than that. We're both sore losers.
Most people are.

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#35 Posted by Steve W — 13:46 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Agreed with #19 - nobody from the All Blacks complained, but the English "Elite Director of Rugby" is.
Do you want a stick to keep flogging that dead horse? Because what you're on about happened over a year ago. Get over it.

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#36 Posted by Jase — 13:49 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Couldn't agree more, Murphy. The worst thing about NZ sport is the fact that we are so quick to blame everyone else for a poor performance, yet will quite happily give any other team a serve for doing the same thing. Complete hypocrites.

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#37 Posted by Kieran — 13:58 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Even if the ref was giving the poms a hard time, surely by the 2nd yellow card they should have realised they had to adapt!!
It took them 2 more cards and they still hadn't clicked. Ha!

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#38 Posted by gunner — 14:02 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Yet another example of Kiwi journalism putting more spin on a story than a Shane Warne leg break!
England are seeking clarifications from the IRB, this DOES NOT mean they are sore losers as many clubs/countries do this to gain vital information regarding descisions made throughout the game. In England's case, I hope they use the information they gain to eradicate the needless penalties they gave away at the weekend.
And as for England 'buying and importing' players, maybe you look at your own game before passing judgement as at least 6 of the current NZ sqaud were born in the Pacific Islands....I wonder how good you'd be without them.
Anyway, keep the blinkered views of the Kiwi public coming...they sure do put a smile on my face. Especially when England are the best 2nd best team in the world when it matters.....The World Cup! Don't choke on your lunch!

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#39 Posted by Matt — 14:03 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
A lot of countries have blamed the ref in the past, NZ included. Other than the elbow sin bin, i believe the ref did a good job. Englands only game plan was to spoil the ABs flow of the game. Fair play to a team that has little talent and imagination. Proffesional fouls on the other hand is blatant cheating and should not go unpunished!

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#40 Posted by andrea — 14:11 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Even though Henry wanted to complain about the ref, he never officially did so, and kept his criticism private. NZ'ers did enough complaining about it - but then he should have been sacked anyway and put dingo deans in there

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#41 Posted by John Fitzgerald K — 14:19 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
First reporting Henry having a pop about foreigners in the English game and now this.
I didn't realise the Dom Post had such ironic comic geniuses - you are using irony here aren't you ?!?

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#42 Posted by Joe — 14:22 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
fair enough the ref was horrible 30 penalties in the first half, thats just stupid. he ruined the first hour of the game. im a loyal kiwi but even i thought the ref was bad, not intentionally biased or favouring one team, just bad. flood shouldnt have been sent off. and i think its funny that every1 here is going on about it wen if we had that many ppl sent off, they themselves would be bitching about the ref. and dont say u wouldnt, we all know u would. think like a rugby fan not an ab fan, the ref was horrible.

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#43 Posted by tokes — 14:26 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
I figured the English would complain about the referee but it all boils down to the fact that they were cheating flagrantly at the breakdown!
Well done Rolland! It wouldn't have happened if the poms didn't consistently and intentionally play the ball while off their feet.
real losers they are.

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#44 Posted by Gav — 14:27 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
The ref was shockin they didnt need 4 players bined they needed extra 4 players on come on ref be fair LOL

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#45 Posted by DASH — 14:34 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Im sorry but the AB's had multiple chances for drop goal attempts and were to slow to take them against France! You would think Captain Fantastic McCaw, legend coach Henry or anyone else would have suggested an attempt! And then to embarass yourselves even further you launch a money sucking formal investigation into why you didnt win!! To this day Barnes is still to blame, give me a break!
Pot/Kettle indeed....

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#46 Posted by Steven — 14:39 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Murphy, sounds like you'e just another All Blacks hater, drinking your fill of HATERADE!
The All Blacks were robbed, hence why the ref copped it. In this case however the Poms just got out skilled and out played and subsequently tried to cheat again and again. As with the report, they're lucky they didn't get more sent off or red cards.
The poms got beaten and lost. Now their crying foul - SORE LOSERS.

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#47 Posted by Nick — 14:49 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Actually Murphy Graham Henry won the fair play award this year becasue he did not make any comment at all about the english ref in the world cup. He and his team maintained thier silence and their dignity by taking it on the chin. Everyone else in new zealand especially the media had an opinion but not the team or the coaches. that's the difference i guess

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#48 Posted by Chris — 15:08 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Actually Murphy Graham Henry won the fair play award this year becasue he did not make any comment at all about the english ref in the world cup. He and his team maintained thier silence and their dignity by taking it on the chin. Everyone else in new zealand especially the media had an opinion but not the team or the coaches. that's the difference i guess

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#49 Posted by Chris — 15:08 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Lets stick to facts. The England rugby management are whinging. The NZ rugby management & team did not whinge at the World cup loss - it was the NZ press & public. There is a difference

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#50 Posted by Alan — 15:09 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #33

I think that if you do some research a good number of the all blacks were born in new zealand - however, if we took all the kiwi's australians and pacific islanders out of the home nation teams, it would be even more dismal for them!

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#51 Posted by chris — 15:11 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Good call Murphy!
About time someone shut these smug "bad winners" up.
"But the pass was forward, McAllister shouldn't have been sin binned" pffft get over yourselves New Zealand.
I wouldn't be too stoked if i were you that we'll get France in the group stages at 2011 either....I'd be pretty worried.
Support the boys but don't get smug. We still haven't won a world cup (which is ALL that matters by the way) in 21 years....

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#52 Posted by JIMMY — 15:20 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Good call Murphy!
About time someone shut these smug "bad winners" up.
"But the pass was forward, McAllister shouldn't have been sin binned" pffft get over yourselves New Zealand.
I wouldn't be too stoked if i were you that we'll get France in the group stages at 2011 either....I'd be pretty worried.
Support the boys but don't get smug. We still haven't won a world cup (which is ALL that matters by the way) in 21 years....

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#53 Posted by JIMMY — 15:20 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #26

Get your facts straight matt, whilst we may have some pacific islanders who "weren't born in NZ" they must hold some form of residency to play for our national side, we're not like all the european nations who have wads of euros and pounds who bribe players to play for them and you wouldn't catch the NZRU going to Fiji, Tonga, Samoa ECT offering players cash to play for our NZ side.
And lastly those players who "weren't born in NZ" probably grew up here so they are as NZ as the people who were born here.
To be honest we'd be just fine without them, because they were probably taught the sport in NZ they use NZ style which come in ALL nationalities within our country not just the pacific Islanders.
Why should we get ourselves a great rugby team when we already have one? Thats why regardless of whether we hold the world cup we'll always be number 1 in the world untill a better team with better consistancy beats us out right and no offence but I highly doubt that will be england anytime in the next 100 years.

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#54 Posted by get your facts straight — 15:20 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

I think you will find it was a certain area of the New Zealand public and New Zealand media who "complained" about the standard of the referee at the last world cup, not the All Blacks. In fact Graham Henry just received a 'Fair Play' award for doing just that....not complaining.

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#55 Posted by Shane — 15:23 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Ahh it sure is lovely to be an armchair critic. How many of yoy faced the panel and bitched at the selectors when you had a chance. The teams may not always be the best there is, but I am damned sure I could not handle their pressure 24/7 like they do. Always open to ctitcism by one eyed armchair critics. If the lot of you can do better then face up to the selctors and put your name forward.

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#56 Posted by Dudz — 15:23 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Ahh it sure is lovely to be an armchair critic. How many of yoy faced the panel and bitched at the selectors when you had a chance. The teams may not always be the best there is, but I am damned sure I could not handle their pressure 24/7 like they do. Always open to ctitcism by one eyed armchair critics. If the lot of you can do better then face up to the selectors and put your name forward.

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#57 Posted by Dudz — 15:23 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
12 mths later the ABs are still going on about Wayne Barnes!!!!! Its great how one eyed some fans are

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#58 Posted by jl — 15:24 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #3

here's a couple for you mate
1.Whats the difference between a Tea-bag and the All Blacks?
a tea bag stays in the cup longer.
2.What do you call 15 men standing around a television watching the rugby world cup final?
The all blacks
p.s. i have more - i await your rebuttal haha

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#59 Posted by jimmy — 15:24 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Murphy are you sure your not mixed up about the two situations there!
For starters there is no pot calling the kettle black, It has been proven that in the world cup we were robbed by Mr Barnes and his lack of even one penalty to the AB's in the second half which was compounded by a shocker of a forward pass that should have been called back but wasnt. Then in this situation with the Poms they tried there butts off to kill our fast ball at the breakdown and it worked for all of a few minutes at the start before the ref got sick of their rubbish cheating tactics and gave them the appropriate justice hence the yellow cards( all four of them,should hve been about 4 more in my opinion)The only reason it wasn't 60-6 is because of the English forwards sleeping on our ball in the rucks.
A smart rugby team would have realised after that many Yellows that what they were doing wasn't working and tried to adjust,but not the English, they just kept trying to ruin the game for 80 mins and now they are crying to the IRB about the ref controlling the game properly and not letting that rubbish happen at the break down as it did.Good on the ref and Sharpen up you sore loser Poms hahahaha.

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#60 Posted by Trav — 15:50 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Actually Mr Murphy #5, it was the Fans that blamed the Ref instead of our own team and managementwhich wasn't good enough to beat France on the Day, we lost by 2 points, we shoulda won by 20, we didn't take the ref to the IRB like England is.

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#61 Posted by BarX — 15:54 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5: Bitching about the ref is fair enough if its legitimate. Barnes had no idea in the World Cup. It wasn't the reason the All Blacks lost, but it was a factor.

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#62 Posted by Gina — 16:11 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
To answer your question Murphy I don't think it's a case of pot-kettle at all. In fact I think it's a case of the best referee vs. the worst (Wayne Barnes)

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#63 Posted by Dominic Brown — 16:12 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #26: Our sports journalism is one-sided? Go read some of the dribble coming out of the UK in the last week about the Haka and then we can talk.

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#64 Posted by Gina — 16:13 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
@ #33/39
Riki Flutey, Lesley Vainikolo, Henry Paul... 3 off the top of my head played for the English international team, after moving there in adulthood - can you say the same about any of the All Blacks (besides Brad Thorn, who was born in NZ)? #33, I think you'll find every international team in the world has players that weren't born there.
What does place of birth have to do with it, when (besides Sivivatu) they were all brought up in NZ? Rokocoko moved here at 5, Muliaina at 2, Sivivatu spent his highschool years here, Brad Thorn was born and raised to teens in NZ, Toeava moved here at a very young age (unable to confirm exactly what age) - so are these the players you are talking about? That have come through the rugby system in NZ and learnt the game here? Nonu was born here, Carter, McCaw, Mealamu, Williams, Smith, Woodcock... I can keep going, but as you can see that is the core of our team, all Kiwi through and through - do you really think the All Blacks would be that much worse without the players that weren't born here?
You wonder how good we'd be without the above players though? How about losing 15 All Blacks players to overseas clubs/retirements last year, and still holding a 13W 2L record for this year? Does that stop you wondering?
Chokers, in one tournament every four years... maybe so, but I think the public in NZ have finally come to terms with the fact we're the best team for 3.9 year cycles playing an exciting brand of rugby, and are putting less weight on the World Cup - simply because we can't seem to win it (again)! If it means the All Blacks don't resort to the boring "English" style of play to win a world cup then I'm all for that loss every four years. People also still conveniently forget we have won one.
The All Blacks still easily have the best record of any team in Rugby's history, so how can you dispute them being labelled the greatest? Out of interest, who do you label a great team if the All Blacks aren't? I don't think we pretend this years "version" of the All Blacks is one of the greatest teams to have played the game, we aren't that naive despite what you may think.
Also, what 'the poster above' is no doubt referring to, is the fact that the European club competition(s) is/are putting buying foreign "stars" (at times toward the end of their careers) for their club teams ahead of developing their own domestic talent, and therefore, preventing growth in their national game. You rarely see that in NZ (as well as Australia/South Africa, although the two have started to relax their rules).

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#65 Posted by Mark — 16:21 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
If "whinging" was a sport the English would be undisputed world champions.

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#66 Posted by Mike — 16:24 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #26

Dear chap,
Haven't you realised yet? The AB's can (and do) choke every four years but are STILL (and always will be) regarded as one of THE best on the planet.
And that opinion is held by the global rugby fraternity, which obviously exclude soccer fans like yourself.
Also, what ultimate team comes to mind (all over the glober) when rugby is mentioned? Clue #1 - NOT England. Clue #2 - Their jerseys are black and so are their shorts and socks. No? Still struggling?
OK. Clue #3 - What team do Mick Jagger and Keith Richards lock themselves away to watch and have signed jerseys by?
Ask a Munster or Llanelli man who they love to play the most.
Ask any Springbok "Who is your greatest foe you take the greatest enjoyment in beating?". The answer will DEFINITELY NOT be England.

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#67 Posted by Bernie — 16:24 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #39

Matt,
Can you name the six players born in the Pacific Islands?
I think you'll also find that they grew up here, as in, they weren't imported, as in, they're kiwi boys. Just ask them.
So, we don't 'buy and import' any of our top players. Never have. Naff off home if you're going to whinge. Nothing worse than a freaking Pom gobbing off about a game that we are just so much more gooder at.

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#68 Posted by Bernie — 16:33 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #58

JL the AB's never complained about Barnes...not ever.
Matt it's not the National team that has bought players - it is their clubs - they are stacked full of foreign players and as a result "native" English talent is not getting the exposure and practice that it needs.
Take 6 AB's out and there's another 6 pretty good players ready to step up - take 6 England players out and you've got a mess.
however that said there were 5 non-English born in the "current" England team too.......and not all of them were child imports into the country as the AB "foreigners" were - eg Flutey & Harley moved there in 2004 and 2002 respectively, and Shaw was 16 when he moved.

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#69 Posted by Mike — 16:38 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #39

Ha ha, I guess that must be personal opinion as to when "it matters". I'd rather be the best team in the world 97% of a four year cycle, than be 'the best in the world' for 3% of it. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd happily trade never winning a world cup again to consistently keep winning outside of it as the All Blacks do :)

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#70 Posted by Marty — 16:41 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

But the difference is that the All Blacks had a legitimate grievance. England doesn't.

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#71 Posted by Paddy — 16:43 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
that number of yellow cards is certainly unusual, but then so was the ammount of cynical infringing by the 15 sacks of flour Johnson send out to play

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#72 Posted by andrew — 17:11 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
I'm with Murphy - practice what you preach New Zealand!

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#73 Posted by Darren — 17:18 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Yep.. Hook, Line and Whinger.

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#74 Posted by zizan — 17:24 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Let's get this in perspective. It's only a little while ago, when All Blacks were outplayed in 2nd half and torpedoed by the French, a large contingent of the nation went in to whinging overdrive in falsely blaming the referee. Take a reality check guys. At least Graham Henry didn't join the chorus and was magnanamous in defeat.

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#75 Posted by steve — 17:27 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Murphy you touched a raw nerve mate! LOL Good on ya!

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#76 Posted by Darren — 17:33 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #47
The AB's were "robbed" ?
So why didn't the AB's kick a drop goal from 20 meters on the many occasions they had? Did the ref also stop that from happening? I don't think so!
They lost matey because they were beaten fair and square, and arguably the leader of your illustrious team couldn't think under pressure.

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#77 Posted by Darren — 17:38 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
One thing is certain. Cometh the next world cup, arriveth (as per usual) the Kiwi chokers! (World champions in this at least)
For all the carping, England have been in last 2 rugby finals. They will recover and once again, give a good show......when it really matters.
Enjoy your champagne rugby whilst it matters not a bloody jot fellas.......and be the best in between.
And another factual thing. The great Kiwi win over Oz in League World Cup was supported at the match by MORE poms than kiwis. Show some respect for this chaps, and we will to you also!

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#78 Posted by steve the pom — 17:42 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
Glad we're not hearing about the Haka!

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#79 Posted by MaT — 18:01 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
What a laugh...a Kiwi calling england poor losers, at least they are going through the correct channels....once England release a report blaming the ref for their loss Then they can compare with the whingeing from NZ......England are not on the kiwis level at rugby and also well behind the masters of the whinge from NZ

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#80 Posted by paul — 19:27 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #16

Funniest post on Stuff this year... laughing my ass off!

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#81 Posted by Shayne — 20:13 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #5

Hey Murf, the ABs didn't complain. It was the public. Sort you facts out ... or keep quiet.

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#82 Posted by TW — 22:11 PM | Tuesday , 02 December 2008
In response to #3

Hey Steve-you've got a short and selective memory don't you? After the New Zealand team lost to France in the 2006 World Cup,
"in an online poll by New Zealand's TV3 network, 55% of respondents blamed referee Barnes for the loss; 19% blamed the All Blacks and 7% blamed coach Graham Henry."
I think NZ have the tag of sore losers stitched into their shirts already.
As for my opinion, even if the ref was harsh, we were totally outplayed as England were weak and NZ was strong. But we've all seen that in between World Cups haven't we? You can have your Grand Slam if it helps you to get over not winning World Cups. Oh yes, but that was the ref's fault wasn't it? Oh, and food poisoning against SA whinge whine moan

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#83 Posted by ted — 00:03 AM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008
Who cares, everyone stop bitching. There's only one way to settle it:
Read the scoreboard!

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#84 Posted by chris — 01:13 AM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008
as half English/NZ when it come to the game I'm on my mums side a kiwi, was at the game and had the ref link and it did seam to me that like always the ref warned NZ and punished the other team (only exception being when we play Australia)
but what more can you expect the IRB is made up of Australians and kiwis.
please don't get me wrong the all blacks were and are miles better then anyone else, but why do we feel it nessasery to cheat (McCaw and co. need to realize that onside is the back foot of your own team not the opposition and so come though the gate not round the side every time. and stop killing the ball all the time). can't understand it i love running rugby and big hits that why i love the all blacks but we just have got to stop braking every rule and at least let the other nations start on a level playing field and then smash them to bits.

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#85 Posted by luke — 01:49 AM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008
In response to #5

Couldn't have put it better myself Murphy.
Oh well probably best that the AB fans have a short memory otherwise they couldn't carry on playing from one worls cup to the next.
Haha

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#86 Posted by Clair — 02:25 AM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008
In response to #33

Brad, no matter what the IRB do regarding eligibility and only being allowed to play for the country of your birth the fact will always remain that England and of course the English will lose! your domestic competition is in danger of becoming our feeder comp.
I draw your attention to England's almost victorious Dubai Sevens tournament team with typical Anglo names including: Isoa Damudamu? Uche Oduoza? Josua Drauniniu?

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#87 Posted by chris — 12:46 PM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008
New Zealand (Wayne Barnes) have, of course, never (Wayne Barnes) complained about a referee (Wayne Barnes).
Enjoyed the game at the Millennium Stadiu - and actually got to see the Haka this time...

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#88 Posted by WelshPenguin — 21:49 PM | Wednesday, 03 December 2008