George Takei, Moderator:

Hello and welcome. I am George Takei. You’re watching Fox Movie Channel.

I’m here with a group of prominent Asian-Americans talking about racial issues raised by Charlie Chan films. Murder Over New York is one of forty odd movies made in the 1930s and 40s about the intrepid Chinese police detective from Honolulu.

In the film, the police chief says, “I want every Hindu in town rounded up,” when the suspected killer is of Indian descent. He goes on to call the suspect, “Ali Baba.”

Historically, what do these films tell us about Hollywood and Society a half a century ago?

Let’s open this discussion with Stephen Gong.


Stephen Gong, Associate Director, Berkeley Art Museum:

Well, one of the things to keep in mind about this film is that it was made in 1940, just before the U. S. entered the war and yet the war is just on the horizon, so you can see that the whole murder plot revolves around the sabotaging of U. S. bombers that are bound for England.

It is a reminder that so many of the Charlie Chan films were tied to a specific place in their history and were very topical for the audiences of the day.

Frank Wu, Professor, Howard University:
http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/fwu/
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8681

What makes it hard to talk about these issues often, though, and this hasn’t changed very much, is if you’re Asian, there’s a perception that you can’t be Asian-American. You can’t be a real, one hundred percent, red-blooded citizen of the United States.

So that when we raise these issues sometimes, people say, “well, what are you complaining about? You’re doing better than you would be in your homeland.”

Or, “if you don’t like it here, just go-back-to-where-you-came-from.”

Well, y’know, I’m from Cleveland (laughs), so things aren’t that much different there.

And that’s what hard about talking about these issues, that often, people look, and because we talk about racist/races, black and white, they look and they see - “well, it’s about Asians; that’s not about race, that’s just about them foreigners.”

And it’s trying to explain, “No, you _can_ be both Asian and live here; intend to stay here - not be a tourist or a guest - but be someone indeed who was born here and who very much wants to belong - and when we watch these movies, it’s just a reminder that we don’t quite belong, no matter how hard we try.


Ken Narasaki, APA Media Coalition:
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0621238/
http://www.naatanet.org/forumarchive/charliechan.html

I wanted to talk about that scene in which the policeman says,” I want every Hindu in town rounded up.”

I’ve had people tell me, “Well, y’know, actually the Chinese in these Charlie Chan films are treated quite well. And it’s really the other people who get it badly, so what are you complaining about?”

But I think that sort of speaks to one peculiar position of Asian-Americans in this society, that we’re often used as the example of that this society really isn’t racist, because “look at you people, you’re going just great. Y’know, maybe if those other guys followed your example,” uh, and I think this is sort of like a small example of that in this film, where they distinguish between the South Asians and Charlie Chan and his family.

I think African-Americans often times were in these same films treated very terribly, and I do think that just because we are treated _better_ in these films doesn’t make it any reason to ignore the fact that these films contain a lot of racist images.


Dr. Peter X. Feng, Professor, University of Delaware
http://www.udel.edu/PR/NewsReleases/2004/sep/9-11-03/expert.html

Well, if we’re talking about Hollywood films, I think changes happen very, very slowly.

Right now in Hollywood, we have an interesting phenomenon where there have been several attempts to create opportunities for certain stars formerly of Hong Kong cinema.

In particular, I’m thinking of Chow Yun Fat and Jet Li and Jackie Chan. I think that the visibility for those actors who are clearly always marked as foreign, clearly still speaking with foreign accents, the characters are also never described as American, they are always described as being from overseas; I don’t think it’s created more opportunities for Asian-American actors.


Parry Shen, Actor, Better Luck Tomorrow: http://www.parryshen.com/

The film that Roger and I just did, we were basically in every single major magazine, newspaper, television show. Critically acclaimed, and we figured, “Okay! This is it. This is what’s going to send us off, and maybe help, help send in a new era”.

But after the film, after all that, it sort of - there was still a ceiling. That just shows this sort of limited thinking, that there - that comes from a bygone era. That we still are up against. Despite all the great work that people - not just actors that, just us - other people who have come before us, still find that there _is_ a ceiling, because the people are so limited to the views that they have cemented in their heads


Roger Fan, Actor, Better Luck Tomorrow:

I think what held us back was, “Okay, you’re reached a certain level in your profession. And where do you put that person next?”

And it came down to the conversations that Parry and I were having was, “Okay, we love you guys, we think you’re talented. But we’re here to make money. We’re not here to change and... or accelerate the evolution of time.” And I think that was one of those things where I went like, “Ohhhh, okay. So, basically there just isn’t a market that has been created, where people want to see you, and hence they will put box office dollars down to see you.


Frank Wu:

When Bruce Lee became big, he was a hero. Y’know, no one had seen an Asian lead actor like that in a role. And so - before that, it’s hard for us to think of an era before Asians were martial arts experts, kung fu, black belt, but what this shows is how powerful these images are.

Here you have a role that we can all applaud. We can look at Bruce Lee and say, “That’s terrific, that’s wonderful.” That he’s broken through like that. He’s a mainstream success, until his tragic death.

And yet, even _that_ quickly degenerates into a stereotype.

Y’know, “Ching Chong, Ching Chong.”

Kids come up to me on the street _to this day_ - - not every day, but at least once a year some kid comes up and starts doing these kung fu moves.

So that’s what these images _do_ - - they just seep into our culture, they rattle around in our heads, they tell us “that’s what you’re supposed to be.”


Helen Zia, Author and Journalist:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-08-14-zia-usat_x.htm
http://www.geocities.com/riverlotus/apa/apa5-17.html

It’s interesting that you talk about the Kung Fu movies and the martial arts, because of course one of the early Kung Fu movies was Kung Fu. And here we have the lead star, where Bruce Lee was really slated and expected to play that lead role, was not cast as that. And instead, a white actor, David Carradine - in yellowface, again - played that role.

And, in fact, we can only imagine how much more improved that character would have been had it been a real Asian who really was a martial arts hero.


Frank Wu:

And in some ways I think they went with Carradine because of a lingering kind of influence of Charlie Chan.

I mean, think about Bruce Lee, and think about that character. Bruce Lee, swaggering through the West. No. They had in mind - they wanted to get across - this peace, love, mysticism philosophy, and they found in David Carradine somebody who’s much more elegant and soft spoken that they could get it across.

This great line, my favorite line, from David Henry Hwang’s Tony award-wining play, M Butterfly, which involves a character who cross dresses, and somebody says, “Do you know why it is that men play all the female roles in the Peking Opera?” And the answer is, “because only a man knows how a woman is _supposed_ to behave.”

And I feel that’s the same thing with the casting of David Carradine. “Bruce Lee, you don’t know how you’re _supposed_ to behave. That’s not how Chinese people are supposed to behave. David Carradine, he knows how Chinese people are supposed to behave.”


Yvonne Lee, Ex- U. S. Civil Rights Commissioner:

We have to remember that Bruce Lee was a struggling Asian-American actor, trying to find any role. And it only got, it took him to Asia, to Hong Kong, to make it big, and then return back here. So, that’s the irony - that he started out here, could not have the opportunity, had to go overseas, make it big, and then return as an action hero.

Transcribed by Jan Willis