Background for the hearing: Neri: No turning back: But wary his testimony could lead to another EDSA. At the same time Neri to invoke executive privilege in ZTE deal inquiry, while the Inquirer editorial warns of a Bodyguard of lies.
See Inquirer.net’s NBN Deal for background on the controversy.
9:28 am Romulo Neri and Benjamin Abalos (accompanied by his son, Rep. Benhur Abalos) have arrived at the Senate. Sec. Leandro Mendoza also there (other cabinet members expected to arrive), columnist Jarius Bondoc.
9:34 Like a dinosaur from the mists of time, former Sen. Maceda lumbers over to talk to the media and rumbles about how people will find it odd if Neri backtracks on the stories circulating. Says if still a senator, he’d ask one fundamental question: what was Abalos doing acting as intermediary for an executive contract?
9:37 Ricky Carandang says gallery’s filling up, “it’s rarely been this full.” Camera shot of Neri looking very quiet and extremely tense. Many Ateneans reportedly in gallery to lend Neri moral support.
9:46 Meeting called to order. Opening remarks of chairmen. Cayetano rattles on with bible quote again, points out conflicting testimony of witnesses present, and for conclusions to be reached re: process and whether anomalies in ZTE deal. Acknowledges Abalos and Neri. At 11:55 last question will be asked, then lunchbreak, then resumption at 12:30. Over lunch, senators to discuss administrative matters. Villar, Lacson, Pimentel, Estrada, Santiago, Pangilinanan, Legarda, Arroyo, Escudero, Enrile, Madrigal, then chairmen will ask.
Roxas: There was a compliance with information request pertaining to annexes of ZTE contract. Some requests for confidentiality and/or restricted access made, will be taken up by committee in caucus. Welcome, welcome, this a joining of the issue, he-said she-said situation, we look forward to resolving it.
Cayetano: Mendoza, Formoso, Ramon Sales, Abalos, Neri, Suplico, Bondoc, Joey de Venecia, regrest from Teves and Favila on official trip; Soneja present. Second letter of regret from Jimmy Paz, one more invitation to be sent to him. Opening statements will be allowed, please stick to ZTE issue.
9:51 Pangilinan: Appeal to chairs and audience, this issue has been well, intense, and uh, emotional, may we appeal to keep it down and to exercise restraint, we don’t want it to turn into an emotional and difficult situation for the senators and the guests.
Cayetano: Yes, no clapping and jeeering, please. Reminds that Executive Secretary promised records by Monday but not yet delivered. Lacson asks for more documents.
9:53 Oath administered to Abalos and Neri.
Abalos: Honorable ladies and gentlemen. Recent developments have hurt me and my family. A son of a friend through innuendos and falsehoods have implicated when all the papers submitted will show it was he who lost out. Joey dee Veeneecia has launched a well funded personal attack on me for first, lobbying for ZTE, second for bribery, third, bagging it… fifth, bugging his phone. Sen-aytors know I have no capacity to eavesdrop, and neither power or authority to award broadband contract to any party. As early as 2nd of December, when JDV# alleged that I pursued him, the government had already designated ZTE as prime contractor. ZTE contract is not own doing. JDV3 says I bribed him Dec. 15? Per letter of Chinese government to Philippine government they’d already designated a contractor. Why would I approach him to bribe him out? Let’s be honest JDV3, this is a concessional or tied loan, it’s the lender that designates their contractor. That is what we have to look into, that’s the whole trouble, when you are borrowing, you have to accept conditions of the lender. This is what’s painful. Well thought out and well funded piece of propaganda. Not impelled by honest motive or desire to expose irregularity, it’s meant to humiliate me, the government, and its officials, to reverse award of contract to give it to him. Appears he’s won, he’s brought government to its knees. Against advice of my counsel and friends, I’ve decided to appear to defend myself and our country and officials including the President. I have nothing to hide, by God’s grace I will defend myself against the fall and perjurious claims of JDV3. I hope they will see their errors. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? What does it gain JDV3 if he gains contract and loses his soul by means of lies. Why would we go to China times and Shenzen, why has he not produced plane or train tickets? You do not cry rape six times! If I invited him is it not strange I didn’t pay for tickets? I never paid for his tickets. He said he’s seen me several times either at Wack-Wack or Comelec. He never said I saw him in his house or office is, because I never did that. Truth is I don’t know where his house. Human nature for person seeking favor to seek out his benefactor? So why is he going to see me? Why did he have to come and see me if he says he doesn’t do business that way? Why did he go to Shenzen with me? SC says statements by witness have to be credible and made by credible witness. He does not deserve to be believed. I am at your disposal.
10:01 Neri: I am respectfully submitting memorandum for clarifying matters. (explains memorandum’s contents: how NEDA evaluates projects; project milestones, etc. Explains members who sit on cabinet committee (ICC); how they work with NEDA secretariat, how it provides evaluations; NEDA board then review feasibility: technical, cabinet, boards levels and then NEDA board chaired by President. Milestones: NBN was process for ICC review as submitted as DOTC and CICT; conceptualized as per cybercorridor SONA scheme; NBN officially endorsed by CICT on 20th October 2006, as government and not BOT project;; 23 March 2007 endorsed by DOTC based on awards committee endorsement as per president’s instructions, including March 1 2007, network must be owned by government; 29 March 2007 approved per merits.)
10:06 Neri: NBN project’s merits then described: technical description…(jives with Yugatech description, without mentioning specific contractor). It was found to be economic viable. I would like to add that when Joey de Venecia presented to me his project also he promised to bring down costs of telecom in this country by 1/2. I found it interesting. If we could share benefits, that would be great. I wrote to encourage him but that don’t mean NEDA approval. I went along with the project if I can reduce profits of existing players by 1/2 and share it with Filipino people, I would recover costs of NBN project in one year. That was my hidden agenda. It went through all the techincal steps. Let me make it clear: NEDA does not choose suppliers. We shop around for best means, for example, in this case, a country-to-country agreement. Some benefits, China can provide loans which effectively gives us a big discount.
10:10 Villar: Thanks to all for being here. Sec. Neri, I’m just asking, was there a message from the President to you coming here or did you talk?
N: We haven’t talked for several weeks already.
V: From Malacanang?
N: I get to talk to some Palace officials.
V: About this hearing?
N: I can’t avoid talking to them…
(Joker can’t hear)
V: Regarding your transfer from NEDA, I know you like economics a lot, then suddenly you’re moved to CHED. Was there a connection?
N: When I was asked to transfer, Ermita and President told me she needed me there. I had unique talents and capabilities. Out of the box solutions.
V: Did you expect to be there permanently?
N: One year, maybe six months?
V: You preferred to stay at NEDA?
N: Even at DBM I didn’t want to go, but after 5-6 months I went back to NEDA.
V: And you didnt suspect ZTE connection?
N: It didnt occur to me.
V: You’ve been hearing statements. Do you think someone is lying?
N: I’d rather you ask me direct questions as to the facts. My opinions arent as important as statement of facts.
V: Is Joey de Venecia lying for example?
N: Cannot say for sure. Didn’t go to meetings.
V: Abalos?
V: We met several times.
V: Is he lying?
N: Let me give you facts. Chairman Abalos came to visit me at Neda, I forgot the dates, looked at calendar. Sometime last last year, early this year… I cannot recall what we discussed, frankly, I have poor memory… But I believe we had lunch meeting arranged by Chinese embassy, one or two Chinese officials of embassy and of ZTE, Abalos there with us. I left meeting before dessert because ZTE officials were heavy smokers, couldnt stand smoke, dont know what transpired. Then a golf game at Wack-Wack.
V: Long game?
N: Nice game, Chairman was charming. Something he said surprised me. He said, Sec. may 200 ka dito. Since he was host, I chose to ignore it.
V: What did you say?
N: Too shocked to say anything. Told my staff to be careful assessing project and with the costings, told my NEDA staff what was told me.
V: Did you think what the 200 was for?
N: I guess- you know how it is in golf, you hit the ball, walk, discuss things a little…
V: That’s all ?
N: Uh, for the moment that’s all I have to say.
V: In the discrete investigation of the executive were you invited to shed light on this deal?
N: I was not asked.
V: Never asked?
N: Never.
Cayetano: 200? million? thousand?
N: No amount.
C: Abalos, will you confirm or deny that?
A: What’s the 200? He himself doesn’t know! (crowd laughs)
10:19 Lacson: Neri, you stated in any national project the role of NEDA is to evaluate and submit recommendations. So what was role of NEDA?
N: Asses project viability and consistency with long-term development goals.
L: Rely in-house or engage outside help?
N: In house staff found it economically viable, economic rate of return of 29%…
L: Including concept and scheme?
N: I don’t understand…
L: You were arguing about scheme as presented by Telof officials, they were for inclusion of loan agreement, in fact you asked that justification being given was same used for pushing through for past projects like Telepono sa Barangay a white elephant of sorts.
N: Normal during ICC to debate merits of a project. Knowing DOTC had failed in the past, I asked Formoso how sure are we this wont be a white elephant.
L: What was your own evaluation?
N: Well as I said-
L: Were you all for it?
N: I was more for it not because of evaluation of NEDA staff, garbage in garbage out, no capability to verify costs and savings…
L: I will rephrase, are you for government owning project like that or rather government rely on private sector?
N: Given the fact we have one of the highest telecoms costs in the whole world, despite private sector doing it and regulator, this is one case where I thought it would do a lot of good for public sector. That’s why I encouraged Joey de Venecia because it would add to competition. Advantage of loans is government can source them very cheaply. PLDT and Globe: American complained on costs, $1 mbs, 22c in Japan, US 11c mbs, RP $20 mbs. We could bring our costs for cellphone down by half, if we could bring broadband down to that of Japan and US it would be great.
L: When did you play golf with chairman? Around time you signed off project?
N: Much earlier than March 26…
L: March 26 to April 20?
N: Much earlier, January, February….
L: Discussing golf balls?
N: No…
L: How did 200 enter the conversation? In vernacular or English?
N: Sec, may 200 ka rito.
L: Where did that come from?
N: I guess we were discussing NBN.
L: What did you think when he said that?
N: Surprised… shocked, I guess.
L: Why?
N: I’m not used to being offered.
L: Bribe?
N: Yes.
Rather big.
(audience titters; Lacson clarifies that Neri assumed 200 referred to a figure at least in the million)
L: Did you tell the President?
N: Yes.
L: What did she do?
N: She told me to ignore it, we then discussed other things.
L: How did you report it?
N: Over the phone. Chairman Abalos offered me 200 million pesos.
L: What did she tell you to do?
N: Not to take it.
L: News of a Palace investigation.
What did she do?
N: I was not privy to any investigations.
L: Was she shocked?
N: It was over the phone, I didn’t see her facial expression.
L: As early as Nov. 21 you were in agreement with President it should be pay as you use, BOT, etc. You were both in agreement. Then all of a sudden, all the proposals violate the President’s past guidelines.
N: Well, we differed to implementing agencies choice.
L: DOTC?
N: Yes.
L: NEDA performed ministerial job?
N: No, we evaluate viability.
L: It didn’t occur to you you violated past policies?
But you endorsed? When did you approve?
N: March 29, 2007
L: Endorsed April 20, 2007?
N: It’s on supply contract endorsement…
I have a letter to Minister Bo Xi Lai and China Eximbank endorsing the financing….
L: But you were arguing against proposal of Formoso?
N: Part of healthy debate, in the end, collegiate decision, I’m just one member of ICC.
L: After arguing against proposal, nevertheless you endorsed-
N: For financing, one of several projects… We endorse it to them for their consideration.
L: Abalos, you said in a radio interview, you didn’t invite J3 to go to China in December 2006.
Abalos: It was not I who-
L: Why did he invite you?
A: Well, I didn’t know as early as December 5, he must have discovered as early as December 2, ZTE was already designated as supplier by Chinese government… knowing i’m very close to these people which I do not deny, he then pursued me, and it seems he had strained relations with them as one of his companies, I think broadband, had business with ZTE but they defaulted on payment…. He said because of strained relations he wanted me to be a bridge so he could dip into the project.
L: But ZTE had already bagged the contract?
A: I do not know but they were designated-
L: But poject not approved yet. Neri, Dec. 2, was it already approved?
A: I only have October 20, I’m not aware of any Dec. 2
L: So Dec. 2, still under evaluation? How would J3 request Abalos to provide a bridge when there was no project approved yet by NEDA? To either of you.
A: I have here copy of letter, my counsel secured….Addressed to Mike Defensor stated it may interest to know that ZTE a reputable firm in China, responded to this undertaking and consequently, Chinese government designated it as NBN “frime” contractor.
L: Mr de Venecia?
J3: This is 1st or 2nd time I’ve heard this in 3 days. Why is Abalos involved in NBN? To rebut him, I divested my shares in multimedia telephony, in 2003, bought by Anscor, Ricky Razon… I have documents that show in 2004 supply contract between my former company and ZTE with regards to vendor contract. I don’t need Abalos to lobby for me because I already know ZTE.
Lacson: I have letter from Soneja. Why would send this letter from Soneja to JV3 if the deal had been approved? (reads letter: March 1: we ask you to submit your final proposal…) If deal was finished why would they ask other proponents?
A: I have letter from Chinese ambassador…
L: Why would they ask for final proposals if, as you say, everything was finalized in Dec. 2? But these letters are after, and so why would Joey ask you? Was DOTC just pulling the leg of other proponents?
A: Well, here’s letter, it’s because of the letter that probably, J3 learned of designation…
10:40 Enrile: Fairness suggests if a witness presents document we consider it and look at it and not brush it aside.
[Lacson and Enrile with Cayetano refereeing, wrangle; Lacson says he read the letter; Enrile surprised; Escudero points out letter Enrile mentioned is Annex “G”; Enrile insists it be read into the record; Cayetano says let’s not derail; Enrile insists on motion]
10:43 Read’ Chinese ambassador’s letter: We agree to support NBN and provide financing through China EximBank… It may interest your honor that ZTE corporation responded to this worthwhile undertaking… consequently, the PRC designated it as the the NBN project’s “frime” contractor, signed, Ambassador, PRC.
B: Addressed to whom?
A: Michael Defensor, Presidential Chief of Staff.
10:45 Lacson: Do you categorically deny statement by Neri?
Abalos: I cannot recall. What is that 200?
L: You do not deny it?
A: Even he himself says it was his assumption it was 200 million… What could be my reason?
L: What you’re saying is Neri is lying under oath?
A: He is, as far as he is concerned.
L: To DOTC. Does Chinese government own an NBN?
Formoso: Yes, well, basically through three companies… All government-owned.
L: de Venecia?
J3: Sorry, was reading my prayer for courage.
A: Thanks to Formoso for saying ZTE is government owned corporation. See, in that case, would I bribe the Filipino people?
10:48 Cayetano: A. you said, this is a tied loan so how could you bribe J3?
A: No, as far as J3 was pursuing me, why he was in Wack-Wack several times…
C: But everyone defending the contract said it’s a tied loan, we have no choice. But isn’t it true if de Venecia was chosen this would be BOT?
A: I don’t understand the work of this, if it’s a tied loan, no choice.
10:49 Lacson quotes Twain to de Venecia and Neri: courage is mastery not absence of fear.
10:50 Estrada: Neri., Abalos just said you were lying under oath. Is he also lying under oath when he forgot or cannot recall bribe offer?
N: I have a very clear recollection of that incident. Perhaps Chairman forgot about it.
Abalos: I said he’s lying when he said I offered him 200 million pesos.
E: Aside from Mrs. Arroyo, did you tell anyone of this 200 pesos, 200 thousand or 200 million?
N: My lawyers.
E: Would you confirm Mrs. Arroyo told you not to accept bribe?
N: Yes.
E: But she instructed you to approve the ZTE.
N: Well, I let the process push through, much as I told my staff…
E: Were you not pressured to approve?
N: NEDA and boards collegial bodies.
E: You expressed reluctance?
N: NEDA ICC minutes shows usual debate… healthy debate.
E: At first you expressed reluctance?
N: No I like the project.
E: BOT basis?
N: We live it up to the agency as to how its structured.
E: Abalos’s involvement?
N: I cannot say, we had several meetings, there was the meeting upon invitation of Chinese embassy. I told ZTE of President’s preference that it be BOT, probably BOT. Take or pay. I made it clear those were wishes of President.
E: Do you know J3?
A: I met him only last December 2006.
E: In J3 affidavit, upon your initiative, you had breakfast with him at Speaker’s house in December.
A: I don’t know what he means by upon my initiative, I remember I was invited by the father then, when I arrived, Joey was there.
J3: I got a call from my father, sent a text a message… I got voicemail from Abalos saying he wanted to meet. Then my dad called saying Abalos really wants to meet you, so I will have you to breakfast. So we all met at my father’s house upon the request of Chairman Abalos. In fact I’ve asked my dad and he said he did not know, in fact he just did Abalos a favor.
E: After meeting at Speaker’s house, you met J3 again at Wack-Wack… Can you confirm this?
A: It was not once twice or even five times, he has been pursing me! Even going to my office!
E: Going to meetings?
A: No meetings! Each time I see him as son of Speaker of course I have to entertain him!
N: Did you offer him 10 million dollars to drop NBN?
A: He was pursuing me!
E: Did you offer 10 million bribe to J3?
A: Definitely not!
E: J3 did he?
J3: Yes he did, December, roughly 8:45.
E: Who was there?
J3: In his big office, gentlemen you mentioned, plus my technical person then went to his smaller office…
E: Abalos, J3 testified numerous trips to China, does Comelec have any business in China?
A: Presupposes you believe him!
I vehemently deny I made many trips, only three trips to China!
E: October 30 2006.
A: Yes, a long holiday.
E: Nov. 25, for HK. Dec. 23 for HK. Feb. 22 with Mrs. Arroyo, a presidential flight…. March, Honolulu… April, HK. July, 2007, Singapore… August 10, HK… Do you deny this?
A; I do not deny, except that presidential trip in February?
E: But this was given by BI…
A: I am qualifying, except that February presidential flight, I cannot recall…
E: HK?
A: Yes, I admit.
E: Why are so much involved with ZTE? What does ZTE have to do with your official function as Comelec Chair.
A: Nothing, they became friends, I have close relations.
E: So you brokered the deal?
A: Definitely not, it’s a state-owned corporation, nothing to broker.
E: Never brokered?
A: Under oath, never brokered as far as NBN is concerned.
E: Uh, well, thank you.
11:02 Santiago: 2 minutes for observations. A Trial becomes a question of credibility. From experience a judge knows its not battle of telling the truth or who telling lies, but rather, people telling part of the truth to benefit their side. Also possible, all parties could be telling lies. Just because one person pro-ven to be telling a lie it doesn’t mean other person telling the truth. Difficulty is detecting not only lies, but half-truths. Parties agree contract involved 300 million Us dollars. 10% usual commission or kickback is 30 million dollars, 1.5 billion as in Belgium pesos. No wonder these people are at each other’s throats! I my experience as BI commissioner is they won’t kill an official doing their job. They’ll simply take leave of absence for head of office to go away. This is not a normal case of a disgruntled party only, but a double-cross syndrome. A double-cross is this: when official promises something, accepts bribe, then exposes transaction because maybe rival syndicate has higher offer. Now our job is to find out who double crossed whom!
(crowd titters)
Santiago: Neri, I respect you (praise, praise) you say, when you heard Abalos offer you 200 period, you were surprised and told President. She said don’t accept it. You understood it in context of bribe and assumed 200 million pesos.
N: Yes.
S: But you are generally in favor of an NBN whatever implementing agency.
N: Yes, to bring down telecoms costs.
S: From the paper, your statement: 10 October 2006 was when J3 first submitted proposal; so this means proposal was not submitted by Bandila Holdings, Inc. not Amsterdam?
N: We do not entertain from the private sector, only from line agencies. Said proposal was sent to CITC for appropriate action.
S: My point is J3 was communicating with government agencies as Bandila and not Amsterdam?
N: I am not familiar with corporate structures. These may be based on letterheads.
S: So he didn’t have capital, he partnered with Chinese.
N: Yes.
S: So he’s not Filipino proponent! Chinoy proponent!
N: I cannot make that judgment.
S: Mr. de Venecia only had 312,000 pesos as paid up capital in Amsterdam. He seems to have been acting as a broker to get commission, There’s trouble because others wanted in, with 1.5 billion at stake others asked why only him! That’s my conclusion. Neri, you didn’t even consider de Venecia offer because it should be DOTC?
Yes, we only entertain from line agencies.
S: Mr. Abalos, you said J3 contacted you because you’re close to ZTE. Why are you close?
A: Started Jan-Feb 2006 when I met them through common acquiantance, they met me at Wack-Wack, and showed me beautiful project proposal for Mindanao, Davao Special Economic Zone…
S: I am not interested in that project. For record China invented civilization in the East, but they also invented corruption that’s why these Chinese like inviting people to golf, etc. As officials we know we’re being invited not for our good looks… On record, let me put it on record: I resent being made party to this squabble! You’re just fighting over kickbacks! You’re wasting Senate time! (Santiago leaves Senate)
11:13 Cayetano: Noted.
Pangilinan: Feeling better?
N: Taking antibiotics.
P: You mentioned talking to Abalos.
N: 3 occassions. He went to Neda. Lunch, golf. Meeting ZTE officials.
P: Phone calls?
N: I don’t have his phone on my-
P: What is your response to claim he has nothing to do with NBN? Agree?
N: I cannot, I only saw him
P: Your own view, not expert
N: I remember in conversation with Chinese he seemed to have played-
P: Was he trying to convince you?
N: I don’t think so, it was his technical people who made the presentation-
Whose technical people?
N: I cannot recall-
At Wack-Wack?
N: Yes.
P: Any government people at golf game?
N: No.
P: Returning to “may 200 ka dito” who else was in golf cart?
N: Only us.
P: You said to your staff, be careful, after offer, who?
N: I met with technical staff, and I relayed it…
Asec. Benie Reynoso is here…Ronnie Corpuz….
P: Who paid for golf game?
N: Ah, I’m sure I didn’t pay. When I go there members who invite me…
P: Meals? Meetings?
N: Chairman’s office I believe, or one of my offices.
P: Did you read about bribe to de Venecia?
N: Yes.
P: Your reaction? Surprised?
N: Since I wasn’t privy, I let it pass.
P: You didnt accept 200 million?
N: No.
P: Did any government official other than Abalos follow up?
N: Not that I know of.
P: Mendoza?
N: No, the one who presented this to ICC was Formoso.
P: Did FG ever raise issue this with you?
N: No.
P: Anyone claiming to represent FG?
N: No.
P: Meeting with Abalos on NBN?
N: On three occassions.
P: Ever wondered why?
N: Yes.
P: Wondered at clout or his jurisdiction?
N: I guess it entered my mind. When people ask me for meetings, I accept, in this case he wanted to come to my office, I had no reason to refuse. In the case of Chinese embassy, they invite us whenever major corporations come over.
P: Did you ever discuss it again with the President, the bribe?
N: No.
P The deal, did the President follow it up?
N: May I claim executive privilege, because this involves conversations between me and the President.
P: Executive privilege can be claimed only by the President and Executive Secretary.
N: Conversations, too.
P: We will see if we will accept it. So you are invoking executive privilege with regards to additional discussions concerning ZTE-NBN with the president. So there were additional conversations…
N: As I said, executive privilege.
P: Abalos, you said you had nothing to do with NBN-ZTE. Confirm you met Sec. Teves in his home?
Abalos: Clarify: it was with reference to Davao Special Economic Zone. Second time, was because ZTE asked if they could have dinner in Wack-Wack with Sec. Mendoza, they asked me to sponsor. So I obliged because they have been nice to me. Whenever they come here I host them. It just so happens I played golf, so I sat down with them for a while, then Sec. Teves came along then I left.
P: So you didnt discuss deal with Mendoza et. al?
A: Pleasantries… I recall Teves was the person being talked to by Chinese.
P: Recall meeting where you and FG there?
A: Part of my morning routine to pass by Wack-Wack, I see a lot of people there. Coffee… After shower… I greet every table… I remember I saw Sec. Mendoza then FG arrived, we were chatting, I left, when I returned, I saw J3 whispering with Mendoza, I said, I have to go… FG was on other side, you know people come up to you, so he was talking to someone so I bidded goodbye.
P: So you didn’t see the finger-pointing?
A: No, it would have been big news in Wack-Wack if true.
P: Did you and FG ever discuss ZTE?
A: Never.
P: Phone, anywhere?
A: No.
(Pangilinan repeats instances of Abalos meetings, review, review)
11:29 Cayetnao: You said you sponsored Wack-Wack dinner. You called Mendoza for meeting for ZTE?
A: No, Mendoza not member of Wack-Wack, he cannot invite guests.
C: Clarify?
Teves said Mendoza called him, he said he was called by you. So let me ask Mendoza, you aid, you didn’t organize dinner.
Mendoza: Abalos is right. ZTE invited me. They also invited Teves since he would do loan agreement.
C: You could have met ZTE anywhere.
M: Yes, they go to my office, they arrange meetings, this is implementation meetings.
C: We’re trying to figure out why Abalos keeps popping up. At start of this fiasco, you were telling media, only your daughter was close to ZTE. But now, are you changing your…
A: My daughter came to know ZTE because of me….
C: Your first interview on ABS-CBN, you said you didn’t know ZTE only your daughter…
A: I don’t recall. I said my daughter came to know ZTE because of me.. My daughter imports merchandize from China, they said let’s help your daughter…
11:33 Pangilinan: Mr. Chairman, On record: I do not agree with invocation of executive privilege, we should discuss this at 12:30, we should settle it.
Biazon: Well, uh, [long-winded repetition of points] Sen. Santiago says three reasons to invoke: when eliciting diplomatic, military, national securityy…answers on official secrets so which is it?
Neri: I refer to EO 464, it refers to conversations by the President with cabinet officials, it was held valid by SC…
B: What had been explained is the only three things that may be cause for invoking is if discussion discovering diplomatic, military secrets or national security…
11:36 Enrile: Witness invoked a privilege. Up to committee to dispose of it. Either we say we compel him, or we decide what to do, instead of arguing with a witness. We cannot compel him to open his mouth.
Cayetano: Pangilinan and Biazon have asked we discuss this at lunch…. [returns to Abalos first saying his daugher dealt with ZTE.. suggests Abalos broked for ZTE, Abalos denies it]
11:39 Legarda: In your letter to J3 you(meaning NEDA) expressed support for Amsterdam broadband project. I presume there was a study?
N: My impression of that letter is that it was just to encourage him to proceed with his project. When he presented, it promised to reduce costs of telecoms by 1/2. I thought it was a great deal for consumer welfare, no costs to government. But I cannot commit government, just encourage him.
L: Does this mean exclusion of other proponents?
N: Not at all.
L: Letter of Ramon Sales of CITC he categorically stated that he cannot opine on cability of proponent, namely AHI to undertake project, financially or technically as AHI has not identified strategic partners. Did you get this?
N: I believe so.
L: Your reaction?
N: I believe my encouragement came before CITC letter.
L: How did CITC letter affect your views?
N: At this point we left it to line agencies to decide.
L: Did you endorse any proponents of NBN?
N: No, in terms of choosing one over the other, no.
L: Broadband is important to you?
N: Yes. Because $20 mpbs here.
L: Did NEDA ever study local, domestic providers to supply?
N: We don’t dictate manner in which it will be implemented. CITC first, then transferred to DOTC.
L: Originally you preferred BOT. Was there voting, were you outvoted?
N: Because we defer to line agency for implementation.
L: Any official higher than you who dictated -did anyone dictate that you set aside AHI?
N: As I said I would like to invoke Sec. 2a of EO 464.
L: Are you saying there was any government official who instructed you to favor ZTE? Was this conveyed by your invoking executive privilege-
N: No official higher than me other than the President your honor.
We don’t vote on manner of implementation. We vote on whether viable or not.
L: Were you overruled?
N: As I said collegial, my own personal preference doesn’t matter anymore.
L: Did you discourage president from pursuing this project?
N: As I said this is covered by executive privilege, conversations with the President.
L: Did you have any involvement in this?
Abalos: I cannot comprehend why anyone thinks I would have a personality to be involved.
L: Were you ever asked to broker and authorized to offer remunerations?
A: I have not.
L: Any speciality in this field to be embroiled in this?
A: I don’t even know what is this broadband.
L: Were you authorized, officially, or unofficially, or asked to provide any amount for compensation or bribe to any private citizen or official?
A: Never authorized by anybody or contacted by anybody much less China to do what has been charged of me.
11:50 Cayetano: J3 are you a member of Wack-Wack?
J3: Not a member, only way is by invitation.
(discussion: should they break for lunch?)
11:53 Arroyo: This is hearing where we cannot really establish truth. So how do we decide this? Brief background. I will not interpollate Abalos because I have publicly stated I have innate prejudice against him. I didn’t attend proclamation because I didn’t want him to raise my hands. So I won’t interpollate not because he’s innocent but innate prejudice. Case here is word of one against word of another. Let me state by referring to Amsterdam Holdings Inc. from SEC records, company was incorporated…. primarily for investing purchasing, holding own… use… etc. real and personal property of every kind and description… Financial statement of August 8, 2007 states company is not owned by de Venecia but a Mr. Saus (?) who owes 99.9%. With this basis, I will now ask. Chairman Neri, you talk about viability, have you ever wondered how viable considering capital?
Neri: Endorsement does not make judgement of viability. Just concept. It has to pass through three layers.
A: You have to give us sensible answer, I wrote the law.
N: When J3 gave us concept, it was to bring telecoms cost 1/2, government would be one of the clients, so I said proceed, go ahead with idea. I said I liked concept. It did not mean NEDA approval.
A: I don’t think you’re doing your job, especially after you said you don’t entertain proper proponents. What did you approve? So here’s a concept. So, what did you recommend?
N: What we approved at NEDA board was NBN project. As to manner of procuring contract, we leave it to line agencies.
A: What are doing here? Chairman is President, only two agencies chaired by President, NEDA and National Security Council. You’re saying you’re doing ministerial job of clerks.
N: Normally private sector goes to bond market, around 9%, a concessionary loan from china at 3%. We do not impose on line agency manner of procurement.
A: You’re being evasive. Give us some light.
N: If you were to choose manner of contracting, we’d be deluged with proposals from suppliers.
A: Here’s Republic of China through EximBank offering loan. Any other party involved? In concept? Concept! You don’t even want to call it a project?
N: What was submitted to us was NBN…
A: Two different things! So what are we doing here?
N: I don’t know, your honor.
A: We don’t want be to be caught in these charges and counter-charges involving bribery. We want information. NEDA is composed of board and secretariat, and board is also composed of cabinet members…
N: Yes.
A: You head head secretariat as Director-General of NEDA. Which discussed this board, or secretariat?
N: First, level of directors, nitty-gritty. Then secretariat, chaired by Finance Sec., then board chaired by President.
[Neri explains advantages of government to government loans, because governments can secure lower interest]
A: I thought we are trying to privatize, why reversing policy?
N: I’m just pointing out advantages of government securing lower interest.
A: While you’re saying the one DOTC wants this, here comes J3 inserting himself, with a low capitalization, why didn’t you just say, J3 you can’t come in here, you never said that he was out bounds, why didn’t you?
N: I didn’t think he was out of bounds.
A: Why is it?
N: If they really want a project assessed, we course them through ICT. Let me read you letter. As far as it’s consistent with government policy, let me express support for ideas.
A: You commend him for presenting good project. Yet you do not know he could not-
N: I did not know that, we do not conduct financial audits.
A: Uh, so what is your position. You’re alter ego of President when it comes to this.
N: My position is we liked broadband project, we want to bring down costs.
A: So you like concept of DOTC?
N: We approved project proposal of DOTC.
A: How about that of Joey?
N: As I said we support objectives of his project.
A: What do you mean?
N: Big difference. We approved his intentions.
A: Otherwise, he’s disqualified?
N: That’s up to DOTC.
We encouraged the objectives.
A: You encourage objective, don’t encourage proponents, that’s splitting hairs.
N: Let me reiterate, we express support to objectives.
A: My observation is the problem is we thought you’re the hero, your indecision precisely caused problems. When we created NEDA we enacted this, Winnie Monsod insisted on this, this is a constitutional body…
N: It’s under office of the president.
A: No, it’s under constitution…
N: Not an independent body…
A: When we created, idea was for NEDA to direct development of the country, but you don’t want to assert it, in fact Winnie Monsod said she wanted it as a counterfoil to the Banko Sentral…
12:10 Cayetano: You say broadband costs are high, this would bring them down.
N: Yes.
C: But DOTC said only government would use it.
N: That’s why I had my hidden agenda as I said, if general public was given access, it would lower costs
[Neri and Cayetano basically say that as project emerged, strictly government network, while Neri was hoping policy could be reversed to allow general public]
12:12 Pimentel makes a rant about not focusing on low capitalization, as many companies increase capital once projects are bagged.
J3: To clarify to Arroyo- (explains his capital is higher than reported, at 25 million today versus 300k as mentioned by Arroyo; said capital is OK for business proposal purposes)
Pangilinan: Neri, Are you invoking executive privilege on authority of the President?
N: Yes
P: Proof?
N: I can secure it, I was told-
P: Who instructed you?
N: Executive Secretary told me to invoke it.
[Pangilinan reads SC decision, saying President cannot authorize her subordinates to exercise the privilege…]
12:15 pm lunch break
(12:48 pm News that Neri’s been whisked away to Presidential Legislative Liaison Office, 4th floor of Senate)
12:53: Solita Monsod, called on ANC, says Neri seems perfectly credible as far as she’s concerned. Regarding Abalos: he’s telling a lie. When Abalos was MMDA, and she was radio commentator, he said with absolute confidence and sincerity, garbage was being solved. Gov. Roman of Bataan called and privately told her Abalos was lying through his teeth. So Monsod called up Roman in public, so not unusual to have two officials saying opposite things; she called up Abalos and confronted him with Roman’s statement, Abalos said of course not… She objects to Santiago’s slur on the motives, that it’s just a squabble over bribes. Monsod believes it’s a very important issue, strikes at heart of corruption government, and whether it’s aided and abetted by China, should interest Filipinos and Chinese. After all, Chinese government executes corrupt officials.
Suggests three questions:
1. Project needed?
2. Private or public sector should do it?
3. If government should do it, is it done at extremely high cost? This is where corruption comes in…
She criticizes senators for not doing homework, criticizes government for dragging feet on providing technical data and hard numbers that independent body of professionals could then verify; criticizes disorganized questioning and wonders why some are zeroing on on comparing de Venecia’s proposal when de Venecia has already said he won’t pursue it. Says by invoking executive privilege, obviously Neri doesn’t want to implicate president, but it’s kind of late to do, because he said he told the President about the bribe, he can’t be selective in executive privilege. Some cackling re: President’s husband, “back off,” and how Joey was careful not to imply anything beyond the finger-pointing; Monsod says Abalos was being sly because he said it ould be all over Wack-Wack if true, but Monsod: “it’s not like it was in the verandah, good grief!” Says something’s wrong with timeline, why were they stringing de Venecia along? Strongly suggests what happened is an ex post facto nationalization.
1:20 pm Cayetano on ANC, on senatorial caucus re: senatorial privilege: We will decide whether to compel witness. Free to invoke privilege on a case by case basis. But step after that is contempt, which will delay matters. For now, we will note manifestations for the record while Senators have not asked all their questions.
1:30 Enrile insists meeting starts : Enrile asking questions concerning incorporation details. Ernesto C. Garcia your managing director Dec. 8, 2006 sent letter to NEDA? Then letter sent to CIDC? Original project named Orion Network?
J3: Yes.
E: Dec. 4, 2006, letter from Garcia to Leandro Mendoza. (reads it into record): Sec. Mendoza, My name is Sonny Garcia, and I work closely with Joey de Venecia, particularly on proposed NBN communication infrastruction (Orion Network) the Speaker’s office had instructed me to forward the attached material to your office, ASAP. Call me for any questions. This was received by Mendoza’s office on Dec. 5. Then attached is a draft letter to Romulo Neri from Mendoza (reads it into record) Dece. 4, 2006 Dear Neri, we are pleased to endorse the proposed project (Orion Network) a 100% pure private sector investment in the Philippines, which confirmed it will not seek financing from DOTC or loan or guarantees from government, the proponent, Amsterdam its partners from PRC and NGO “Liga ng mga Baranggay” have committed to develop network. The proponent only asked that government designate DOTC inasmuch as it would allow ease of integration of services with e-learning e-government, we are pleased to endorse as it meets government’s policy of interconnection to afford universal access, and supportive of government’s priority of developing infrastructure with no cost or risk to government… DOTC accepts opportunity to be lead agency and submits full endorsement for your evaluation. Do you confirm your managing director wrote this letter to DOTC?
J3: Yes.
E: I asked you before, whether your father the Speaker had any interest. Now this letter mentions Speaker’s office. You sent draft to be signed by DOTC secretary. What is this?
Mendoza: I immediately forwarded it to Telof for comments and I never signed endorsement.
E: Was this referred to your office?
N: We don’t remember that letter it’s not in our files.
E: You said improper for BOO to go directly to your office. Why, in this particular he had temerity to write directly to NEDA?
N: They probably don’t know procedures. We do get different proposals from different companies. We endorse it immediately.
E: Did you have any hand in North Rail?
N: NEDA ICC.
E: Project of Speaker, wasn’t it?
N: I can’t say for certain.
E: I was the one who exposed it in the Senate.
In other words this was no other than project of Speaker.
N: I cannot say one way or another.
1:42 Zubiri: I manifest on record,TV showing those absent. I haven’t been absent! I was attending hearings! I cede my time to Sen. Arroyo. (Cayetano: noted, Pangilinan asks for order of questioning; meeting to be extended to 4:30)
1:46 Arroyo: Joey can you provide committee with statement from SEC to this effect, in Amsterdam, your name doesn’t appear at all, you’ve been using Amsterdam as front company but your name doesn’t appear at all. Your name doesn’t appear as stockholder or owner, it’s under name of Saus. So give us evidence you have interest in this company. You’re principal proponent but your name doesn’t appear.
J3: I will. I addressed that with Enrile, I will provide documents.
1:47 Escudero: Where we are now, legally and administratively. Abalos has been citing a Dec. 2 but root of it all is a MOU between RP represented by Favila, and ZTE. The MOU cites cooperative agreement of two parties, RP and ZTE, to work together in development and implementation of projects, including NBN, and includes RP through DOTC…NEDA…. shall provide necessary assistance for implementation… And, announcements, unless otherwise provided by law, neither party shall release contents of this agreement to any other party without permission… As early as July 12, 2006 ZTE has practically been awarded this and other contracts by national government, and bound by secrecy not to reveal it. Neri says he has nothing to do with awarding, but under law, EO 423 and Procurement Law, NEDA sec-gen is alternate chair for clearance, he needs to give clearance for contracting. As DOTC submitted documents say, this is ODA… under the law, ODA law and procurement law must be followed.
Es: Neri, you mentioned it’s in the interest of government and people for government to own NBN. Under executive, aren’t you bound by policies mandated by Congress? Doesn’t law state policy is to privatize telecoms? Not for NEDA to change that policy.
N: I’m not too clear on that policy. There are cases when government’s entry is desirable. A good case is MRT-3. Cost of financing too high. Government could get cheaper financing.
Es: Without arguing, you’re bound by Congressional policy. If you disagree, go to Congress. Telecoms policy specified by law.
N: I defer to DOTC on what they’ve done on this.
Es: You mentioned you’re unfamiliar with awarding contracts. You’re alternative chair of board?
N: Policy making body. In this case, I have a letter we were requested by Mendoza to seek permission to sign-
Es: A direct contracting contract-
N: Yes. We advised it’s not NEDA who makes this decision, we referred it to GPBB(?)
Es: Re: Letter of Mendoza to Neri, it cites MOU. Your action, when was it?
N: Our letter April 19.
Es: Essentially not giving your consent and permission.
N: Because we cannot give consent, NEDA not proper approving body for contracts.
Under EO 423 sec. 4 approval of NEDA director-general necessary to engage in procurement other than public bidding-
N: As GPBB not NEDA-
Es: (reads EO again)
N: It has been amended. Now exclusive prerogative of DBM Secretary. Amendment to EO 423.
Cayetano: When was amendment made?
N: I’ll check.
Es: Why did Mendoza write you if amended?
N: We were puzzled. That’s why we referred to other agency for proper processing.
1:58 Escudero: May we ask Sec. Andaya to help. Was EO 423 amended or not?
Abalos: Yes, amended, head of GPBB is Sec. of DMB, not NEDA co-chair.
Es: With reference to what I quoted, was that amended?
A: Yes, by EO 465, it’s now Sec. DBM.
Es: Did you approve?
A: We said DOJ opinion needed.
Es: Mendoza, why did you enter contract on April 21, without NEDA, DBM, GPBB, or DOJ opinion…
Mendoza: Well, there was NEDA approval of the project, so what we did was we inserted provision that there would have to be DOJ approval.
Es: Law says these opinions required, why didn’t you wait for DOJ opinion before signing contract?
M: We believed it was an executive agreement, so we asked DOJ, so in signing we put it as a condition.
Es: This is covered by procurement law?
Andaya: Covered in that provisions are there but if under government-to-government….
Es: But requires announcement provision?
A: Upon actual procurement…
Es: Procurement of goods or infrastructure.
A: Both.
Es: Rules differ for both but more infrastructure…
A: But infrastructure doesn’t allow direct contracting-
Es: But agreement says-
A: We never gave permission for direct contracting. Government of China picked ZTC. Not DOTC.
Es: But we approved the Chinese choice. We could have said no-
A: How could we say no, that was government-to-government agreement.
Es: But this is a debt, we have a right to accept debt proviso or not, we acceded to Chinese choice of contractor. Which is why Mendoza asked your permssion and Neri’s.
A: Let me answer bluntly. Two provisions quoted by Mendoza, direct contracting, and second opinion whether this was executive agreement or not, granting an exception. We didn’t bother answering first. No directing contracting. We answered second, whether government-to-government. GPBB not in a position to answer, so we said refer it to DOJ. That is the gist of letter and our response.
Es: Was EO amended saying if ODA, it falls under GPBB will issue guidelines under ODA? So these contracts fall under GPBB? So you have a say?
A: We can issue guidelines for a particular body, we’re only policy making body.
Es: So was DOTC right to sign contract even after you told them to seek DOJ opinion?
A:If they are in the belief it’s an executive agreement and they believe, they’re correct.
Pangilinan: In other words your recommendation does not matter.
A; It would matter to them. GPBB not in the position to determine if its an executive agreement. We understand the EO grants an exemption to the law.
Roxas: This seems to be current refrain, from Neri, from Andaya. That we’re not in charge, we have no say, we’re processing. It’s somebody else who makes decision. My question is how did we get this far? 330 million dollars is seemingly going to be borrowed… Neri and Andaya passing the buck…
A: We’re not avoiding. If you read RA 9184 no agency, really, will say if something is an executive agreement exempted by law or not, it’s the executive agency which will determine whether covered or not, so we suggested to DOTC seeking legal comfort from DOJ but it’s not required. If executive agreement, it’s not covered, so we don’t have to say anything…
R: Maybe technically law doesn’t say GPBB will do it, but as DBM, no one will move unless it’s clearly under procurement law. For NEDA, they could be more zealous in scrutinizing projects…
2:13 Cayetano: We asked DOTC for clarification on series of events, no one mentioned EOs had been amended, processes enumerated to us lists NEDA approval, but NEDA then says they don’t, it seems what’s on paper, what’s been submitted by DOTC is different from what they’re doing. So why didn’t DOTC write you saying theyre withdrawing their letter, after all we can only follow official documents because the paper trail and testimony are different.
2:16 Escudero: You were capable not to mention ZTE. Does NEDA have any other basis for establishing benchmark other than what was submitted by DOTC, which is essentially ZTE proposal?
N: Yes, ever since I entered NEDA, I insist on price comparisons. Put comparators.
Es: Are there?
N: Difficult. They tried. Checked everywhere, very complex, hard to make price comparisons. Best is if we bid it out, say Arescom makes better bid, if DOTC was right, and others did apples-to-apples comparisons, same scope, best to bid it out.
Es: That’s what law says. So you don’t have data to say this is cheaper and should be entered.
N: No.
Es: So you wouldn’t know.
N: NEDA tried its best. Only basis is rate of return, if benefits exceed the costs, based at NEDA staff assessments, 29% rate of return is high.
Es: And overpricing?
N: We would have no basis for determining, best would be to bid it out.
Es: So we’re entering blindly into deal with ZTE.
Sales: Yes, we said so in our letter.
Es: And if basis comes solely from ZTE, we have no basis for comparison-
Sales: When AHI was disqualified, it became a one horse rase.
Es: So NEDA and CITC had no basis for establishing benchmark.
Neri: Yes, even CITC had difficulty making price comparison.
Es: Even if you’re impeachable officer, you were invited to give your side. You said de Venecia is lying because he wanted in?
N: Yes.
Es: Neri says, you said have 200 for him, in apparent attempt to bribe him. If de Venecia’s objective was to damage you, what would Neri’s motive to say this be?
Abalos: First, it’s not clear what that 200 Neri says is, and Neri says it’s only his estimation. What’s emerging is Neri says he does not entertain private proposals but he entertained de Venecia. What did he do? He answered, and said we support it. And yet Joey’s capital is small. When you hold a paper like this, you can already peddle it and make money out of it! If there’s any brokering it was done by Neri.
(crowd laughs)
Neri: The letter we sent to de Venecia was we support objectives. NEDA is careful with such drafts, I cleared it with staff to make sure what we say is precise.
Es: Neri was clear, in golf cart, he said you said there was 200-
Neri: Let me clarify, only Abalos at NEDA, not clear to me why; second was playing golf, which is when this happened; third time was at Makati Shangri-La at invitation of Chinese embassy with ZTE officials.
Es: To be precise-
N: “Sec, may 200 ka dito”
Es: Abalos, what do you say?
A: How to scrap this? Mix it with shady allegations like bribery. What 200? He does not even know himself, whether 200 pesos, 200,000 pesos or 200 million, only his assumption it’s 200 million! It’s clear, what is he saying? We do not entertain private proponents, but what did he do, he responded by means of a comfort letter. Show this letter I tell you his capitalization would reach to hundreds of millions of pesos?
Es: According to testimony, there were up to 15 meetings re: ZTE broadband. You admitted meetings with Asec. Formoso, with Teves, Mendoza, Neri… Is your position all 15 meetings were coincidental in that you happened to be there?
N: I don’t recall 15 minutes, I only recall meeting with Formoso and Sales, Joey de Venecia has been hounding him, he has been pursuing me!
Es: Neri says three meetings you were there and ZTE officials.
Abalos: First, it was just me, he says only once with me and ZTE…
Neri: Correction, in golf just me and he and some friends, two flights…
[Escudero clarifies meetings]
A: It was I who sponsored dinner for ZTE upon request of ZTE because they had dinner with Mendoza…
[more clarifications, Escudero says I stand corrected, about 11 meetings]
Es: And China?
A: I finally gave in, that’s why I accompanied him to Zenhen.
Es: Confirm Kempinski Hotel meeting?
A: Yes.
A: Read affidavit?
A: Yes
Es: Correct?
A: Only so far as being there, but as far banging my fist, how ridiculous would it be, you’re in a Communist country you’re banging your fists, they may not let you leave…
Es: One of you here is lying.
2:31 Cayetano: Abalos says he only bumped into Joey in China. You said you didn’t go there…
Abalos: Not everything reported in the papers is true. Like those sexcapades. Too much!
Roxas: Joker woke up when they mentioned sexcapades!
(giggle giggle)
Abalos: What did Arroyo say? With this, (letter of Neri) you can easily generate funds! What he asked is for me to bridge him with ZTE!
C: Your testimony is, he (de Venecia} pestered you to accompany him to China…
2:33 Pimentel: Neri, before hearing this morning, you were reported in papers as flipflopping over whether to attend, then supposed to go with President. Did you get order from President?
Neri: DFA informed me Friday evening, that Pres. needed me in NYC on meeting on millenium challenge account. My visa to USA was expiring Sep. 29 so I had to go to DFA to help with visa being validated, so we made arrangement. I announced also to committee in the House… That evening, I guess because of.. texts going around, partly because of that, maybe too much public objection, I was instructed to stay behind.
P: By whom?
N: Secretary Ermita.
P: Visa cancelled?
N: Never cancelled, expires Sep. 29.
P: Not cancelled?
N: I don’t think so.
P: not sure?
N; I don’t know, not informed either way, not gotten my passport yet.
P: An aide named Willie?
N: I don’t know- last name?
P: I don’t have last name. I understand this morning you were threatened-
N: I’m not aware
P; In any event this text was supposedly relayed: If your boss mentions my name I will break with my own hands every bone in his ody-
N: Not aware-
P: Any other threat?
N: None that I know of.
P: I understand you’ve incurred the ire of some business people, because of your stand of privatization of arrastre service?
N: There’s a monopoly, I favored allowing Harbor Center to compete, as our containter fees among highest costs in the world for containers…
P: Among those angry is Ricky Razon?
N: Well, met him at reception for Equitorial Guinea president, Speaker’s mother-in-law’s house, Forbes Park, it was there he accosted me, in effect telling me, in effect, you will allow Harbor Center to operate over my dead body.
[Pimentel asks if other confrontations with Razon; Neri says no; Pimentel suggests Razon sent threatening text]
N: It’s not just in containers I want deregulation, in power, airlines, etc. Also.
P: March 29 approved project?
N: Yes.
P: Took till April 20 to formally endorse approval to Mendoza.
N: Uh, I don’t have exact date we informed Mendoza of NEDA board approval.
P: Supply contract-
N: We don’t approve supply contracts.
P: No, you endorsed stand of NEDA saying to Mendoza you had no such objections-
N: We have no such endorsement.
P: No?
N: No. We don’t even have copy of contract, so we cannot endorse contract.
P: No copy of contract?
P: We don’t work on contracts.
2:43 Pimentel: March 29, your baord approved. But you approved April 20. There’s a gap. What took you so long?
N: Uh, I’m not sure about delay, this is normal, we don’t normally endorse projects for Chinese financing…
P: Could it be delay was caused by your ambivalent attitude, as you admitted, you personally were for no use, no pay…
N: I don’t get question, I cannot explain why this is April 20…
P: Your own stand on the issue you expressed view, probably best thing to do was BOT kind of thing…. All of a sudden, it changed.
N: As I said, this was based on previous instructions of the President. In the end it depends on the DOTC…
P: Abalos, do you know Evelyn Catherine Silagon.
Abalos: You know I was shocked by that text message…
P: Text message?
A: Yes, text messages that I fathered a daughter who is 9 years old, good thing my wife would not believe that… There you can see the smear job is intense…
P: So you don’t have a daughter by her, you have a son…
A: Please sir, not like that… I came here on my own will…
P: Where did you get idea this is from a text message?
A: I received that text message last night, even my children received it… It even says current account of that lady, and even driver furnished by me through Napolcom, I have no connection to Napolcom.
P: So you don’t know her?
A: I beleive she’s a media lady, I beleive I came to know her when I was in MDDA. What I deny is imputed relations to her, very unfair.
P: Imputed business relations?
A: With her?
P: Yes, meaning using her as your front.
A: Not even that, I have not seen her. Months, your honor.
P: Charge against you is facilitating consummation of this deal with government.
A: As a matter of fact, I felt elated, meaning people thought I had such influence. But I don’t have that influence.
P: During election period you considered yourself the most powerful person.
A: I never entertained that idea. In fact you never approached me and yet you’re winning.
P: When you brokered a deal thats what estafadores do
A: I’m not an estafador
P: I’m sorry if you feel alluded to. During election period,Abalos as Comelec chair is perceived as very powerful. Where did you celebrate your birthday?
A: Had to cancel grand celebration… Party at Comelec…
P: You denied you called up Teves to ask ZTE officials to see him?
A: No, I did not deny, in fact I called to introduce ZTE official to him…
P: Shows how powerful you are, that Teves received them on a weekend…
[ 2: 54 have to interrupt to write my column; meeting temp, suspended 3:05 but wil lresume at 4 pm; mainly wrangling between Pimentel and Abalos involving, eventually, Abalos’s alleged run-in with the Zubiris at the Makati Shangri-La, Pimentel is one cranky old coot; hearing suspended so Senate session could begin and be suspended.]
3:33 Hearing about to be resumed. Lito Lapid has arrived! Angara said he’s not attending out of delicadeza, as his law firm is representing ZTE.
3:37 Pangilinan manifests continuing objection to Neri’s refusing to answer questions on the grounds of executive privilege. Cayetano confirms Senate agreed: 1. committee will decide claim when it is made, and compel answer if claim isn’t valid; 2. continuing objection to keep questions going; 3. commends Neri for candidness in some areas but asking him to be more forthright in all respects.
Biazon: Neri, you indicated you are going to try to secure written order from Executive Secretary.
Neri: Usec. Gaite is working on it, for signature of Sec. Ermita.
Zubiri: My name was mentioned when I was attending to budget hearing. May I make manifestation, I would like to state for the record that we did not have a secret meeting with the Chairman, chance encounter happened during parent’s 45th wedding anniversary, it can be confirmed by management of hotel, I am not that dumb to have a secret meeting with chairman.
Pimentel: That issue is not going to rest. We can discuss that in another forum.
[more blah blahs]
3:42 Madrigal: Chairman Abalos, you said it is easy to raise funds with a piece of paper. That’s a novel idea. Could you tell us how you raise funds with a piece of paper, is that something exclusive to government officials?
A: With a comfort letter from NEDA, you can easily raise capital.
M: So that’s influence peddling, a corrupt practice.
A: I think Sen. Arroyo will join me in that position of mine
(crowd laughs)
M: So you’re experienced with these things?
A: I am not a finance man!
M: So how do you know?
A: It is common sense! You can easily enhance your capability to encourage investors.
M: I fail to see point, perhaps I have no common sense when it comes to fund raising.
Who is your travel agent?
A: I have no particular travel agent.
M: In HK you have had 5 trips from Oct. 2006 to August 2007… according to BID…
A: In August, I was in Singapore, I think…
M: We would like to know if your travel agency is the same travel agency used by other government agencies or relatives?
A: Not really…
M: You don’t who pays for your trips…
A: It’s not true they were paid for by ZTE people. October trip paid for me, December trip with de Venecia paid by me…
M: So you say you paid for all your trips? But you said they were in official capacity? Which were official?
A: Singapore was charged to office…
We have list of trips, can you identify… October 30, 2006 till Nov. 4, 2006 where you were with President and Speaker at that golf game did you pay for that?
A: Yes, long holiday, All Saint’s Day. I learned they were in HK, I called FG… I was in Shenzen, that’s where we were having vacation… They were my hosts in the golf course.
M: Categorically deny conversation re: ZTE when with Speaker and President at Shenzen?
A: Yes.
M: Even telephone?
A: More so telephone, don’t know how to reach her on telephone especially in China.
M: Here’s something in Ricky Carandang’s blog… He says it was all the result of the micromanager-in-chief’s meddling… (quotes Carandang blog, specifically, Speaker’s account to Carandang that President spoke to Abalos, as recounted by Speaker himself):
This morning on ANC, Marieton Pacheco and I interviewed the Speaker who confirmed a story told by his son Joey before the Senate last week: that sometime in October 2006, the elder De Venecia, President Arroyo, and Comelec Chairman Benjamin Abalos were in Shenzhen to meet with Chinese officials about a number of things.
As JDV tells it, he and his president were on a bus from Hong Kong to Shenzhen when she had a phone conversation with Abalos. Apparently Abalos had flown ahead to China and was waiting for them there so they could all play golf. During the phone conversation, Arroyo asked Abalos why he couldn’t tweak ZTE’s broadband proposal so that there would be no need for the government to borrow money or issue a sovereign guarantee for the project. In the presence of the Speaker, she asked Abalos why he couldn’t get ZTE to submit a proposal similar to the one submitted by Joey De Venecia’s company, Amsterdam Holdings, which had no up front cost for the government.
JDV says he didn’t know how Abalos replied to the President because she was speaking to him on the phone. He said that they only met with Abalos after they arrived in Shenzhen.
M: Do you categorically deny that this incident happened?
A: This is hearsay-
M: So you deny?
A: I do not know what incident, the talk between JDV and the President-
M: So you deny-
A: I cannot admit or deny, hearsay
M: Are you angry at Neri?
A: No. I was suprised.
M: You called him a liar twice or three times. Do you stand by that?
A: The lie I said was that I was bribing him with 200 million pesos…
M: Are you willing to be the fall guy-
A: Fall guy for what?
M: When you called on Mendoza and Teves to meet ZTE officials, did you consider delicadeza considering Mendozas son and Teves’s nephew were candidates…
A: I never called Sec. Mendoza. If I never even called him, I don’t know where delicadeza would come in.
M: Neri, are you constrained from divulging other things.
Neri: I’m considered alter ego, so I have to follow rules.
M: So you believe you’re constrained.
N: There are matters said in confidence said between President and members of cabinet, I believe SC has considered this.
M: Have you considered resigning because of need to tell truth?
N: I don’t know if related, I’ve considered resigning because of pressures of job. As far as so-called truth is concerned…
M: Never considered resigning to tell truth?
N: As long as I’m in cabinet, I am constrained, even if I left, some things would be covered…
M: As a patriot?
N: Perhaps if high crimes were involved…
M: Is plunder not a high crime? Corruption?
N: I have no evidence…
4:01 Aquino: Mendoza, appropriate to say Formoso is technical guru as far as this project is concerned.
Mendoza: Yes, he’d be in charge if it pushes through.
Aquino: Formoso, your formal training in law. Any formal training in ICT?
Formoso: On the job.
Aquino: You were compliance officer of Chica holdings?
F: Yes, also Chica Asia…
A: Compliance in terms of laundering laws?
F: No, software, telecoms, when you do software development as well as applications, to ensure complies with certain standards…
A: You were chief legal counsel for CICT?
F: Deputy commissioner, chief legal officer Pena then Sales.
A: So mainly ICT or legal?
F: Mainly communication aspect of ICT sector.
A: Was 5.1 billion funding adequate for needs?
F: 5.1 was a very estimate, at this point I can’t recall how it was arrived at.
A: To Neri, NEDA serves as check on ODA?
Neri: Yes, NEDA reviews viability of projects submitted by line agencies.
A: In terms of approving any project, isn’t it wrong for an evaluation to be based purely on the basis of information provided by the propnent?
N: We tried but failed to independently verified… (repeats his view that original proposal promised reducing data costs by half, huge savings of 2% of GDP to the consumer; Neri goes over how US research firm OVUM shows how expensive data costs are in RP)
A: Is that data correct?
N: Even if it’s hot $20, it’s still 200 times US costs…. (Neri explains how attractive Chinese concessionary financing is, whether North Rail or NBN…)
A: Real issue is, under contract of North Rail, contractor will submit preliminary schedule for review… Prepare detailed engineering specifications for approval of purchaser… Are we buying something that has yet to be determined later? First it was 15.1 billion for NBN then they tell us its 16 billion, in effect, we’re being told to subsidize R&D on the part of the end user, because of large engineering research costs… Is it even clear government knows what it specifically wants?
N: NEDA is not involved in details of contract. That’s DOTC. NEDA tries to verify feasibility of costings, sometimes we would make comment and bring it down, but in others, we rely on line agencies. For this, we’d rely on CITC and DOTC.
A: Strange that when you contract with supplier of any product, that client isn’t specific in saying, this is what we need, so supplier can cost it? Instead we’re saying we’re going to spend this amount, and then they tell us how it will be filled?
Mendoza: Ah, well, ah, the detailed study had been conducted by CICT, so we came on board later… So Formoso did early evaluation…
Formoso: As in any communications project… what you have is initial engineering design, but until detailed engineering design which comes only after contract, that’s when cost of specific site, used, etc. Engineering costs includes civil works… 60-40 to 50-50 that civic works will constitute in total project costs.
A: 329 million, how did you arrive at this?
F: Bill of quantities, indicating what project will include in terms of equipment, services, civil works…
4:20 Honasan: Neri, give me job description of NEDA, specially when this project was being planned.
Neri: (explains structure of NEDA; if private sector proposals, they forward to line agency; then line agency submits to NEDA for evaluation: technical board… )
H: You are at fulcrum of this, the least suspect. Whatever you say will shift center of gravity of issue unless your credibility as issue. According to flowchart, in 17 stage process, NEDA appears in No. 4 box (endorsement approval) and certification by NEDA that proponent agency has complied with requirements, so you’re principal adviser of president…
N: Theoretically, your honor.
H: Suppose NEDA doesn’t give stamp of approval?
N: It will not be approved and won’t push through.
H: If there are contending opinions line agencies, how is it resolved?
N: Discussed in various committees and finally board which just confirms, there are debates.
H: Is there a timeline for debates, normally?
N: Normally during ICC meetings, depends on chairman is efficient? Teves tends to be more patient, I’m faster…
H: Any point you felt process was being short-circuited?
H: Submitted to us November, so not exactly rushed.
H: Never did you feel process was… unecessary intervention?
N: Sometimes when ICC and NEDA board together, it was found proper to put the two together, for example when in Pampanga… so in this case, since there was supposed to be signing in Boao, we put the two together, this is not unusual….
H: Asks about security risks, were they factored in?
N: (dodges, tries to pass to Mendoza; Honasan says he asked Mendoza; Neri says it seems this is the reason Mendoza preferred government-to-government)
4:29 Cayetano: Process took 6 months. Normal?
N: Sometimes 8 weeks.
C: Give me some examples of projects that took 6 months, just submit it?
N: Yes.
4:30 Biazion: How long did North Rail, inception to signing of loan, take?
N: Chinese took about a year.
4:31 Revilla: Well uh, I’d like to ask Abalos, uhm, Estrada said records in BID enumerating your trips, 7-8 trips, 4 of which were HK? What were the purpose? Official?
A: Three, I went on to China, the rest, HK only.
R: Connected to ZTE?
A: For China, we went on holiday, ZTE was our host. December, we met Joey.
R: You said you met ZTE people early 2006. Correct?
A: Yes.
R: Who?
A: VP Mr. Yu.
R: Introduced by mutual acquintances?
A: A certain [unintelligible]
R: You weren’t imperiled by your friend?
A: Good friend.
R: People pointing to you. If you think they’re lying, what do you think is their motive?
Abalos: A concerted effort by people who want to derail contract. I think they succeeded.
R: So they were succesful.
A: They were succesful at that.
R: I’m not taking sides, even if I’m an administration senator, I only am on the side of the truth. Neri, uh, when Abalos told you there was 200 for you, you were shocked?
N: You can say that.
R: Because of that shock, you consulted your lawyers and told the president.
In the spirit of transparency why did you speak only now?
N: There are matters best said under oath, otherwise you can be held by libel.
R: OK (sighs). Mendoza, Malacanang has statement that RP-China relations have been strained by this controversy. Up to the point where uh, we have to court China again, what led Malacanang to this conclusion?
Mendoza: We used to have very healthy relations… Any movement towards cancellation as I said, might, you know, cause some strain… Sec. Favila when he announced suspension of project, made mention of efforts by RP government to continue dialogue with China… I do believe the DTI Sec. will meet with the Minister of Commerce in the very near future, then we will know if there is strain or not.
4:38 Pia Cayetano: President ordered investigation. When? Who were investigated? Results other than general statement no evidence of bribery?
M: I’m not party to investigation.
PC: Were you investigated?
M: I read investigation was discrete investigation. When you say that, it’s not open, people are not called to investigate. I have never been called.
PC: Weren’t you surprised you were never called?Shouldn’t DOTC side have been taken?
M: Normally, in discrete investigations you get information from other sources.
PC: Formoso? Were you investigated?
F: No.
PC: Neri?
N: No.
PC: Suplico?
Suplico: No.
PC: Abalos?
A: I don’t know.
PC: Sales?
Sales: I don’t know, easy to go to money-laundering reports and check us.
PC: Was anyone here investigated? Joey de Venecia? Bondoc? (both say no) Does anyone know who was investigated? Was it so discrete we can’ty verify the discrete investigation?
(silence)
Neri, did this investigation happen after you informed the president of the bribe attempt?
N: I don’t know, I’m not aware of any investigation.
(Pia Cayetano flounders, no one knows anything so she can’t ask anyone anything about investigation president had announced)
PC: So President’s response, she said, don’t accept bribe?
N: She said don’t accept-
PC: Anything else attached, like proceed with this?
N: As I said this is where I invoked executive privilege…
PC: Was there any other statement after don’t accept, from President on what to do?
M: As I said, part of a longer conversation, and as I said President regularly calls me up- beyond what I said I’d like to invoke executive privilege.
Biazon: are you invoking executive privilege on your own behalf, or on behalf of the president?
N: I have been instructed to invoke it - on behalf of the President…
Allan Cayetano: Instructed by executive secretary, they told you what you can or cannot say? Like Abalos?
N: Left it up to me
(Alan Cayetano suggests this indicates Abalos is being made fall guy; Biazon pursues what Neri’s parameters are for invoking executive privilege: one parameter is seriousness of issue; who determines? I do, Neri says)
Cayetano: So if it’s serious you will claim executive privilege.
N: As I said, hypotehtically perhaps if I know if a high crime is being committed-
So if its embarrassing-
There are things that we say that are embarrassing to each other…
4:48 PC: Why did President have to suspend contract if there was SC TRO?
Mendoza: TRO judicial recourse, suspension is an executive action. My interpretation is even if TRO lifted, President still wants it suspended, we don’t proceed.
PC: Was statement necessary since we have separation of powers? What was necessity for President to come in at this point?
M: It’s an executive action, I agree with President.
PC: Without President’s executive action, there would be doubt on your part if judicial action holds any water?
M: No.
PC: What was effect of President’s suspension considering SC had issued TRO?
N: I guess she’s willing to reconsider, that was message, possibly bid it out or BOT.
PC: So whatever orders given behind closed doors, would be put on hold. Safe conclusion?
N: Yes, and could lead to improvement of process. I think best to subject contract to price challenge. So competing claims can be resolved. For example Arescom-
PC: When you earlier testified NEDA does not pass upon details-
N: We review contracts after they’ve been signed, to see if consistent with what NEDA approved.
(Pia Cayetano and Neri rehash NEDA processes; basically NEDA submits to judgment of line agency)
PC: You required interpreters in negotiations with ZTE?
Mendoza: Well, I wasn’t the one who made negotiations, it was our technical staff, and they said no use for interpreters.
PC: Do you or your staff know that Joseph Dy served as interpreter?
M: Well I don’t know Joseph and they don’t know Joseph…
PC: Bondoc, care to tell us whether you have any indication who is telling the truth and who is lying? If you care to?
Allan Cayetano: No libel, you can answer freely…
Bondoc: (evades question)
PC: I will not force you. (Bondoc suggests consulting a document, letter from Mendoza and Sales to Neri, where they give DOTC and CITC endorsement of project, citing NEDA request for endorsement of ZTE and CyberEd projects)
Cayetano: Says officials told Senate that ZTE requires interpreters.
M: When it comes to technical staff, they’re really trained in English…
5:02 Pangilinan: Point of information, regarding invoking executive privilege. Question that triggered Neri’s invoking it, was “were there any other conversations between you and President on NBN after you reported 200 million bribe.” We do not agree, we object to invocation of this privilege, but we are waiting for document (from ES) to see what we will do legally.
Cayetano: Sen. Santiago sent copy of her privilege speech on executive privilege.
5:04: Villar: When you were transferred to CHED, before or after golf game?
N: Golf game sometime January, my transfer was around August.
V: How’s your security?
N: I have security assigned to me… Of course family worries when there are rallies in front of my house.
5:05 Pimentel: Did you not find anything wrong with your transfer from NEDA to CHED?
N: Well, people resist change…
P: But you’re not qualified..
N: I did not know until 2 or 3 weeks after it happened, my lawyers and Malacanang lawyers…
(Pimentel grumpily says President should have known, and that Neri’s still there; Neri says Malacanang lawyers based on SC decision say it’s legal if in an acting capacity)
5:07 Gordon: Is NBN a priority?
N: In Medium Term Development Plan. MTPIP is worth 2 billion….
G: Which is top priority?
N: There are many.
G: Number one?
N: Education, health…
(Again, Neri reiterates advantages of government taking over some projects because it can borrow at a cheaper rate… Gordon asks questions about MRT, where private sector borrowed higher, government wants to take over as it can borrow at 6% vs. 15%, Mendoza says MRT under negotiation, Gordon complains process is slow)
Gordon asks transcript of minutes of NEDA meetings be subpoenaed. Cayetano said Ermita had committed to supplying documents last Monday, but they will follow it up and issue subpoeana duces tecum if not received by tomorrow.
G: Is this ODA?
N: The way it turned out.
G: Grant component?
N: The low interest rate, value differential translates to 25% discount.
G: How come no competitive bidding among Chinese?
N: There is no bidding in this case, Chinese practice is to nominate a supplier, before they process a loan agreement, there has to be a prospective supply contract. You can say it’s supplier-driven.
(Gordon displays his knowledge of Subic and asserts this process is wrong, he always said so, he will always say so, etc. Neri gives answers regarding processes followed by government; Neri and Gordon agree future policy reform is that government should not accept if suppliers dictated by loans in contravention of Philippine laws).
G: Why do you go to China almost every month?
A: Part of what we call overseas voting…
G: Shouldn’t you report to us, as oversight? So we can accompany you and check?
A: The report we give is after the exercise…
(Gordon irritated: October 2006, November 2006…December… February 2007… )
G: I looked at process of approving loan and affidavit of de Venecia… Process of approval seems to coincide with these trips. Timeline of NBN project and these meetings and trips, the important dates seem to be related. (rattles off dates and incidents in de Venecia affidavit). Is everything de Venecia saying true?
A: Don’t you wonder why Joey goes all to the places I was at? He never said I went to his place. It means he was pursuing me. He wanted to use me as a bridge to restore his relationship with ZTE, because he found out they’re the designated contractor. And I admit I’m close to ZTE.
G: Why is Neri saying you offered him 200?
A: Like I said when, did Joey enter his application? December. 5. Document I showed said ZTE was already designated contractor (Dec. 2) And yet he says I made offer to him on Dec. 15? Why would I?
G: Maybe simple, two people connected to the contract. Neri and de Venecia. Why did both say you offered them bribes?
A: To destroy the existing contract! And he succeeded.
G: I know Neri, not de Venecia. It’s only now that he’s said you offered him 200 whatevers. But when de Venecia says it, too, I’m wondering why you always end up being mentioned?
A: Neri keeps saying I said “there’s 200 for you” but never what that 200 was… (discussion moves on to JDV telling Abalos that JDV3 complained it seemed JDV cared about Abalos more than about JDV3)
(Gordon and Abalos revisit their grudge match on election automation: argue, argue, argue about election automation, including machines, voter ID’s, etc etc etc, details going back to Tantangco Comelec and 1994!)
5:34 Gordon and Abalos still rehashing election automation controversies. Gordon hits Abalos letting himself be wined and dined and golfing at foreign expense. Abalos says its just reciprocity. Gordon asks whether it’s just a coincidence Abalos was having golf trips paid by ZTE coinciding with time contract for NBN was pending, Abalos insists he has nothing to do with it.
5:40 Pimentel: Abalos, did you and your family go to China April 14?
A: Let me check passport.
Who paid?
I did.
Do you have tickets?
Who keeps them? I don’t.
When you travel, how do you travel?
Usually Philippine Airlines.
Let us subpoena Philippine Airlines for records of trip of Abalos on April !4.
Cayetano: Yes. We will also ask for your passport.
A: Yes.
Cayetano: For record, ZTE officials close to you?
A: Mr. Yu.
C: In meetings mentioned here, Yu was in all of them?
A: When he is here, he calls me up…
C: In Wack-Wack with Mendoza?
A: I think he was there. And some others, Fan Yang (?) and other local people… I’ve never been invited by Chinese embassy…
Neri: Chinese commercial counselor was there.
Biazon: Who was invited to lunch by commercial counselor?
N: I was.
B: Did you invite Abalos?
N: No.
B: He (Abalos) was there.
N: Yes.
Biazion: Were you invited?
Abalos: I don’t remember, I’ve never been invited by embassy of China…
Biazon: Date?
N: I don’t remember… 2007… I left early because of smokers…
5:47 Roxas: Mendoza, looking at 2008 National Expenditure Program… 3.5. billion allotment for foreign-assisted projects of DOTC? ZTE part of this?
M: No.
R: We are supposed to advance 15% for ZTE, so this isn’t that advance?
M: Not included in 2008.
R: I looked at 2007, 2006, 2005 GAA (budget), I don’t see broadband project.
M: None.
R: So this only became a priority now, if it had been a long-time priority it would have been at least submitted… If super-priority, it would have been included in request.
M: Well, ah, if you see what we submitted… dispositions of communications, we entered in this February of 2007 for implementation. Previous years, CICD in the past would have handled this.
R: Not in CIDC past budgets. Neri, before DBM assumed heading GPBB, NEDA headed it.
Neri: DBM always chair, NEDA co-chair.
R: We had National Procurement Plan, listing wish list of big government projects.
N: Yes, every agency required.
R: Yes, GPBB supposed to get wish list to understand what each agency wants, and to review it. That’s the purpose?
N: Yes.
R: Looking at Annual Procurement Plan, broadband isn’t here…
N: I wouldn’t know.
R: If this was such a priority, so important, it’s odd that it’s not listed, and appears just now.
N: Originally conceived as BOT project.
R: Aha! If conceived as BOT, government wouldn’t borrow, and user pay? Government guarantee not required.
N: If solicited, allowed guarantees. If unsolicited, no guarantees.
R: So, sequence of events. From the time this amazing golf game took place, around the end of January… Since February 2007, through the NEDA meetings, at least two, March 26 and March 29, did this subject of bribe ever come up again? Ever wonder why after you reported it to President, when ZTE came up again, didn’t you wonder why it came up despite reporting?
N: Not envisioned as ZTE project. When NEDA approves project, no supplier stated. We avoid mentioning supplier, as it’s prerogative of line agency.
R: Process of NEDA not supplier but project focus, but clearly NBN approved, didn’t you wonder, this is the project where I was offered a bribe.
N: I private mentioned it to my staff, as I said, be careful, price may be higher than warranted.
R: Immediately after golf game?
N: Somewhere there.
When taken up in NEDA-ICC-cabinet, didn’t anyone wonder, including your staff, wonder?
NEDA staff was positive about project, excellent rate of return.
What does that have to do with this is not PLDT, not SMART, you were offered a bribe, instructed not to receive it, yet this project was still be discussed as if nothing happened?
N: NEDA has its own process, I don’t want to interfere with technical process.
R: But as cabinet member, you know part of your job is judgment, didn’t you remind executive secretary anyone, this is what I mentioned… How did this enter agenda?
N: NEDA passes judgment on the basis of viability, bribe offer not necessarily relevant.
R: I think it’s relevant, your duty is to remind of possible peril.
N: I think I did my duty in this case.
R: Bribe notwithstanding, so you were still supportive of project?
N: That’s right. We recommend on the basis of economic data.
R: That’s a stunning revelation.
N: I guess, judgement call on my part.
R: Here are copies of joint board meeting where the NBN was approved, around March 26-29. Also Nov. 21, 2006 NEDA meeting, that’s before the golf game. Familiar with this?
Not in my files. What does it say?
This project was discussed, and there’s a back and forth between you and the President, where she says this must be BOT, President favored CyberEd, she favored it because it focused on education, and President emphasized NBN has to be BOT. Government would not spend for it, in fact this broadband project ought to be not undertaken by government.
N: That’s right. When I met ZTE under auspices of Chinese commercial counselor, I told them to submit as unsolicited BOT.
R: What happened between November and March that all these reservations were changed? Now it’s a government undertaken contract, requiring a loan, a loan tied to a supplier not tied to our procurement process? What considerations led us to this today?
N: We left it up to line agencies to determine best procurement process. We just urged ZTE to do it that.
R: So what use is NEDA? If its agency driven, then of course they will push what they want, but NEDA is supposed to process and filter to see if really good for government?
N: If we were to choose mode of procurement-
R: No, the policy is, private sector, BOT, user pay-
N: We cannot impose it.
R: Why not? Constitution says NEDA highest policy making body? Why can NEDA be ignored by a line agency?
N: When NEDA approved it March 29, we just approved project itself.
(Roxas scolds Neri over abdication of responsibility by NEDA)
N: If we were to do BOT, then the pending BOT application was AHI.
I’m looking at approval process. That’s the most important element, that’s where billions of government money go through.
(Roxas says approval and implementation distinction is false, that NEDA is surrendering check-and-balance obligation; Neri disagrees)
You yourself pointed in NEDA that this may have to be raised with President, as the way the deal was going goes against existing policy-
Yes.
(Neri wants to pass it on to DOTC to answer; Roxas refuses)
6:10 Cayetano: Isn’t it true if there’s a difference if NBN was through BOT or through loan, as economic benefits wouldn’t be there as public wouldn’t have access?
N: Rate of economic return would be same.
C: But really, there’s two different projects. Original proposal allowed public access. As approved, NBN wouldn’t allow public access.
N: You only look at right hand side of balance sheet. We don’t look at right hand side, which is financing. Economic rate of return different financial rate of return.
Roxas: Modigliani paper says this, don’t make us bola-bola…
N: If private sector 11% goes out, if government, only 3% goes out.
R: But you’re only looking at it at closed loop. doesn’t mean if Chinese offering 3% doesn’t mean it’s only source of financing.
(Roxas and Neri clash on most beneficial means of financing, whether government or private sector can borrow money more cheaply; Neri says money at 3% had to come from China; Roxas offended, says who says we have to borrow from China? Wer’e not in business of mobilizing Chinese funds… Neri says perhaps this might be so…Roxas snaps and says he won’t ask anything further)
6:18 Mendoza, Sales, then review time line for submission of various proposals and when various committees asked for completion documents. de Venecia III says full submission was made to DOTC on December 5, 2006. DOTC even asked AHI to fill in NEDA forms. Endorsed to NEDA by Sales and Mendoza for NEDA further evaluation. Says he’s sorry people perjured themselves. Says he has documents signed by Sales and Mendoza and Asec. Saneha.
Sales: What I understand is that they did not complete documents…
Cayetano: Earlier you said they only gave you a PowerPoint…
S: PPT to us, documents to DOTC…
J3: Documents to DOTC but Sales, may I remind him, signed endorsement letter which means the attached documents too.
C: Endorsement from DOTC. True?
N: DOTC can only endorse one project at a time.
C: de Venecia says it was endorsed to you.
N: Not formal endorsement. Just submission. What DOTC submitted to us was evaluation of two proposals.
C: You wrote to DOTC telling them to consolidate ZTE and Amsterdam proposals. Either you’re not being accurate or not truthful.
N: I don’t remember
(huddling by Neri and staff; pointing to papers; Reynoso sworn in)
6:26 Asec. Reynoso: The ah, March 1 letter of DOTC together with CITC in response to NEDA letter of Feb. 20.
C: And that letter was in response to what?
R: Cabinet meeting in Malacanang where it was instructed to sort out possible overlaps in proposals (NBN and CyberEd), so that there will be no waste of resources. It was DOTC that mentioned ZTE and Amsterdam, we in NEDA mentioned that.
C: In this document: it says CyberEd overlaps NBN.
R: Yes, findings of DOTC and CITC.
C: Yet NEDA approved both?
R: Ah, there is a subsequent communication from DOTC assuring there will be no overlaps.
C: We already asked Formoso and he said he says they didn’t talk to DepEd.
R: That goes beyond NEDA.
C: How come everyone’s pointing to the other person? 40 billion, but no single official saying I’m in charge, it’s my fault.
R: We only review what’s submitted to us.
C: So NBN and CyberEd should proceed side by side?
R: We agree with DOTC and CITC…
C: Which is?
R: What we want is a single platform that can be used by all government projects.
C: So, NBN or CyberEd, it’s one or the other?
(bureaucratese non-commital answer)
C: You interpreted bribe to be 200 million right? But sure only of “200″ right?
N: Very sure.
C: So only discussion is if its 200, or 200 million, but either way still a bribe?
Neri: Yes.
C: If you were offered 200 million and there are others to approve, possible others offered bribes, logically?
N: Possibility occured to me, yes.
C: If that’s true, then overpricing was large.
N: As I understand projects of this magnitude have certain project margins.
(discussion goes to how Neri asked staff to check for overpricing but they couldn’t find figures; Neri says the problem of being unable to check, is precisely why he would prefer things bidded out, so you don’t have losing bidders complaining)
6:36 Biazon: Neri, here’s fax from Department of Finance on flowchart of Chinese ODA loans…
(asks about procedures, do agreements with China for cooperation exist? Neri says yes, signed on June 5; Biazon goes through flow chart detail by detail with Neri; NEDA board is chaired by President is end result of flowchart; supply contract, after winding through flowchart, doesn’t become effective without loan agreement)
B: What is basis for this flowchart?
N: Country’s rules. Flowchart for France is similar.
B: Basis?
N: ODA Act.
B: Same flow chart followed in North Rail?
N: Whole process was followed, there’s a loan agreement…
(more persnickity niggling over flowchart steps and details; every time Neri explains something, Biazon says, I know! etc, etc. North Rail and every possible iteration on Chinese projects is brought up)
6:51 Biazon: We are engaged in a policy of increased engagement with China…
N: They have tremendous reserves….
B: If all projects are like ZTE, we should examine…
N: I think this a good policy. North Rail was a good project [but] Japan proposal was cheaper.
(Biazon points out rail costs in China cheaper than what China being paid for North Rail; Neri points out details)
B: I know that!
N: But it includes rail carriages, etc.
(more wrangling… now on to South Rail)
6:55 Roxas points out, wearily, that first round of questions has just ended.
Villar: Please limit questions, we still have session.
Lacson asks about obsolescence of technology on a per year basis, technical and functional.
Formoso: 15 years total, 6-7% a year.
L: After 15 years, completely obsolete.
F: Yes.
L: Upgrading and maintenance, who?
F: Us.
L: How much more to maintain and upgrade to catch up with technology?
F: Consumer products different from capital equipment. Consumer products have planned obsolescence…
L: How much more?
F: to maintain functional capabalities, 1 billion a year.
L: Only?
Y: Yes
(more pointless discussions on contracts; Lacson asks Neri if it’s possible to prove overpricing; Neri says unproveable, national interest determined by rate of return; Lacson asks whether he brought up bribe attempt with President as a threat and Neri once again invokes executive privilege)
7:00 Lacson asks Bondoc about details of bribe; Bondoc says he needs permission of Neri to divulge. Neri says he denies Bondoc permission. Lacson scolds Neri for missing his defining moment.
I will be the judge of that, Neri replies.
7:05 Estrada asks Neri why he thinks ZTE people are agressive, pointless discussion on why smoking in Neri’s presence is aggressive… Estrada asks about President’s interest in project, Neri says he’d rather not comment. Estrada says he respects that.
Estrada: Abalos, how many official trips, unofficial, to HK?
A: No official trip to HK.
E: Are you willing to submit passports? Official and regular? How many?
A: I only have one. No red passport.
E: But you should have an official passport.
A: I think I only used it once, when I was MMDA.
E: Not issued one as Comelec Chairman?
A: I don’t remember, but I remember when I was with MMDA… Whenever I travel, I travel with my wife, and I stopped using red passport because she has to use another que…
(Estrada says de Venecia says, Abalos intends to enter telecoms when he retires; Abalos says, that’s J3’s version, not his; Abalos confirms yet again he’s friends with ZTE people)
(silly questions on whether Abalos would advise President to cancel deal; Abalos said he doesn’t want to speculate on advice; rehash of contradicitions between Abalos saying FG wasn’t at meeting, and FG lawyer saying FG was at meeting; Abalos replies, he was asked about a reconciliatory meeting, and he denied there was ever such a meeting, he had never been called to one; reiterates his morning routine and how he bumped into FG)
7:14 pm (round and round they go…. repeat of last week’s Abalos and de Venecia questions concerning Wack-Wack meeting)
7:15 Roxas: I have note from Trillanes. He wants this asked of Neri: Was there anyone who ordered you, compeled you, or tried to influence you to approve NBN project?
N: None, followed process.
Enrile: Is this precedent that if we are absent we can send a question and be asked by any member?
R: Under the circumstances…
E: Circumstances doesn’t matter, he has not answered role call, he is not in attendance, he was given privilege of answering question.
R: Since I asked question, under circumstances of Trillanes, he asked, his name is read…
E: I ask because I was incarcerated twice and never given than privilege.
R: Well, perhaps your question is better asked of your colleagues of the time.
E: If this is a precedent I would like to exercise that same right!
C: Roxas asked in same way we ask in the manner public texts us to ask.
E: I don;t mind, if someone texts me, I will own the question, I will ask on my own behalf.
R: Let record show then I asked the question but it was brought to me by Trillanes.
A visibly irritated Lacson moves hearing to be held in Marine HQ since colleague is helpless. Cayetano soothingly says perhaps for meeting after tommorow, and meanwhile refer Enrile’s inquiry to committee on rules. Lacson asks Suplico if an impeachment complaint will be filed versus Abalos, Suplico says yes, tomorrow.
7:20 Pangilinan asks more details about Wack-Wack meeting, kind of table, how many chairs, etc. J3 says FG was at head of table… More persnickety baranggay cop style questions from Pangilinan. Asks Neri how he responded when Abalos offered bribe, Neri says he ignored it. Then Abalos, Neri asked, did what? nothing, says Neri, they proceeded with the rest of the golf game. Discomfort? Yes, says Neri, but you can be polite also.
7:25 Biazon asks Neri, if NEDA didn’t approve project, that would kill it? Neri says yes. Biazon asks, you were quoted yesterday that what you are going to reveal here could cause another Edsa?
N: I never said that. Press was speculating, I guess. I don’t give myself that importance.
7:27 Pangilinan asks Formoso, did anyone approach you and offer you money for ZTE?
Formoso: Unfortunately no.
(crowd moans; Formoso apologizes, says he’s tired)
Mendoza also says no one offered him money.
(Pimentel asks, grouchily, why he’s being skipped over; Cayetano soothes him)
7:29 Estrada scolds Formoso: you’re so arrogant! Formoso apologizes. (pot calling kettle black moment, folks!)
Pimentel: Bribe is a crime-
Neri: If you accept.
P: Even offer is a crime.
N: That’s why I consulted my lawyers.
P: what did you do?
N: Reported it.
P: To police?
N: To President.
P: Yes, then she told you to not accept bribe, then to approve contract-
N: I don’t approve projects, it’s a collegial decision, chair of NEDA-ICC is Sec. of Finance, chair of NEDA board is the President… I sign decisions…
P: In effect, your signature is important…
N: Standard SOP…
P: If you do not sign, then there’s a delay….
N: I see no delay, if approved, it’s approved.
P: Approval was done sometime in March, then took you 19 days to signify your approval-
N: NEDA board approved it March 29
P: Then you forwarded it on April 20
N: Yes. letter to Minister Bo Xi Lai, endorsing NBN for financing.
P: See, that’s how important your signature is.
N: Part of listings for the projects.
P: Causing a delay in your communications would have repercussions on implementation… Why 19 days?
N: Normally, this one takes time, and I think we did it in time for the President’s trip to China.
P: What is it in your communications with President that you consider privileged?
I cannot answer that.
Why not?
As I said, it covers my conversations with the President.
Cannot be on your mere say so; you have to explain why, what it was you talked about and why it falls under ambit of executive privilege. This committee in final analysis decides whether you properly invoked executive privilege. If you don’t tell us, we can compel you.
As I said we have to respect communications between President and her cabinet members.
Before I move we compel this recalcitrant member of the cabinet…
May I posit a question… Neri, in your opinion, was the conversation that you had with the President, involve a matter a matter of executive privilege on her part?
I would think so.
You think so. Did you ask permission of President?
President is abroad, I asked permission of Sec. Ermita.
7:38 Pangilinan: I think the witness should be afforded reasonable time to consult with President and Executive Secretary in invoking claim of executive privilege, then we can decide if such explanation is acceptable. The courts have spoken that we afford Neri reasonable time.
Pimentel: What I worry about is that we call people here, and they say they can’t testify, and we let them go, that’s a setback for our legislative duties. Let me read sentence from case of Ermita vs. Senate: SC hold Congress undoubtedly has right to information from executive… Executive must state reason why executive privilege should be accepted. Neri should tell us the reason, our desire is to prevent just anyone impeding right of this body to elicit information… I am very reluctant to let go of Mr. Neri even on advice of Majority Leader.
7:41 Escudero: Ermita case is clear. Must be invoked upon specific instruction of President, you cannot invoke it now and then clear it with President. Neri, you were asked reason why? National Security or foreign relations?
N: But 2a of EO 464 includes… conversations between Presidents and officials…
Es: SC said you cannot invoke it on mere whim.
N: I will need time to consult with a superior for the reasons.
Pangilinan: (Reiterates his point, based on SC and EO 464…. if reasonable time passes, Congress no longer bound to respect claim, says there’s basis to Pimentel fear Neri might not show up next time, but hopes Neri will help settle issue)
(Pimentel says reasonable time applies to cabinet members yet to appear; but Neri is already here, has been given permission, therefore claim of privilege can only be made per question, but with cabinet member explaining why. Says he isn’t inclined to let Neri leave; Neri can’t just make blanket claim of privilege, if I’m forced to do it, I’ll move that Neri be sanctioned with contempt.)
Cayetano: There’s a continuing objection, we’re merely tolerating Neri’s claim until we can resolve it further.
7:48 Enrile: How is witness in situation where executive privilege might be invoked to act? When witness is asked a question and thinks an answer would in effect would bring executive privilege into play, his answer might involve executive privilege, so he ought to consult with President before answering…
Gordon: (goes over case and contents; says claim of executive privilege can only be made prior to cabinet member’s appearance)
Enrile: Then if a witness like Neri is asked a question which in his opinion would involve executive privilege, might he not ask permission to consult President? If ruling of body is negative, then we take the plunge!
Pimentel: The Senate must be fair. I would rather give Neri a chance to explain to us, even if in executive session, to known exact answer he wants to keep under mantle of executive privilege, then in executive session without publicity we can determine if it’s valid.
E: What is question being asked of him, so he can determine if it’s under exec. priv. and whether he needs to consult?
P: Question what was President’s reaction when he told her of bribe, that was kept hanging because he says he wants it covered by exec. priv. which neither President nor Exec. Sec. have invoked. Remember, Neri is head of CHED, not a cabinet line official if we want to be strict. My position is we can hear him, then we can decide, in executive session.
E: My recollection of Q&A is that his answer was, President said do not access the bribe, but approve the project, contract?
7:56 Legarda: To clarify, where did Nery invoke privilege? I asked him, were you dictated upon by anyone, is there a higher official that sought to prioritize ZTE, Neri said I’d like to invoke 464… I said, I wasn’t even referring to President, Neri said I can”t comment, so I said are you then saying part of conversation with President? He invoked 464 then said, there is no official higher than me than the President…
Cayetano: Will you reveal this in executive session?
N: I will have to get instructions from superior.
C: Will you reveal nature of information executive session?
N: I will ask him.
(Neri says he will ask Gaite who will contact Ermita, Pangilinan meanwhile goes into according witnesses leeway to engage in consultation with President, urges liberal view of rulings)
8:00 Biazon: Did President or Executive Secretary anticipate question for which you cited executive privilege?
N: I believe so.
B: So they told you to invoke it for those questions?
N: I’ve been instructed to cite executive privilege for anything beyond what I’ve said.
B: You’re invoking executive privilege on specific question was your judgement?
N: Yes.
B: Which of the three instances which would allow executive privilege to be invoked, applies? Military secrets? Diplomatic issues? National security?
N: I’m not a lawyer, but based on notes of my lawyers, it says all conversations, conversations, between President and officials, etc.
8:05 Arroyo: The Senate won case on EO 464 but we were given certain limitations. My respectful submission is we should go easy, let’s not cross the line, we’ve won, let’s keep it that way. A secretary who appears here would not know what questions will be.
Lacson: He is not a cabinet secretary.
A: Hecklers. We are not policemen here. Neri says he will ask his superiors. We asked which of the three, we don’t know what his superiors will answer. We’ve been here 11 hours, we cannot even give him a little courtesy and consideration of asking his superiors? It’s not fair. Majority Leader explained doctrine very well- yes you can consult, because you can’t anticipate every question, then by all means he has right to invoke privilege subject to reaction of superiors.
(Pimentel says problem is Neri says he’s a low level person then claims executive privilege which can only be claimed by high level officials; reiterates executive session where Neri can explain why he’s invoking executive privilege)
(Cayetano tries to clarify issue further, points out Nixon case, etc. goes against claim of generic privilege)
(Biazon reiterates silly question, would answer cause another Edsa? Neri says he doesn’t think so)
8:11 Legarda: reviews Neri testimony that he is not in any position to implement contract, only approves concept, Neri agrees. If that’s so, isn’t it illogical, somewhat unbelievable, that anyone would try to offer you a bribe if you seem and allege to be so powerless, that your task so ministerial? Neri replies that is your interpretation of what I said. Legarda: that’s why I’m asking you… Is it not illogical people would even bother to wine, dine and play golf and offer huge amount?
N: I think your interpretation of powerlessness is not exactly correct. The secretariat is under me, we can process project… project proposals, difference between project proposal and a contract….
(Legarda asks some more, why Neri reacted the way he did, Neri says different people react different ways)
8:17 Escudero asks Formoso if 1 billion budget he mentioned, isn’t already the budget for Telof, so no basis actually for that figure for NBN? Formoso says figure based on past budgets for past phone system maintenance. Escudero asks about useful lifespan of project, 15 years for equipment? Yes. Asks Neri,
Es: How long will we be paying?
N: 20 years, Neri.
Es: So after useful life, we will still be paying?
N: That’s possible, but could be matched to useful, but useful to extend payment period the longer it is, the lower the value of the money.
Es: 16 billion for ZTE, but at end?
N: the longer we pay, the less we pay.
Es: 16 billion becomes 25?
N: In nominal terms, perhaps 20 billion; but if you present value it, about 10-11 billion. Depends on final negotiation of loan.
Escuero asks, you’re alter ego of President? Yes, all cabinet members, NEDA sec-gen is cabinet rank. So you don’t do anything without permission of President? Neri: That’s a rather narrow definition. Discussion why policies exist: so president’s subordinates have freedom of action.
(Escudero delves into obsolescence, how it’s factored in, Neri says we check revenues, cost, many factors, you could have old taxi and still generates revenues, be useful still be valuable; Escudero scolds Formoso for bribery joke; Ceyetano asking where government makes money; they all lose money because it’s a public good; it’s not just financial benefit, it’s economic benefits that NEDA looks at, Neri explains; many projects of DOTC are not doing well; Enrile explains government tends to lose money because it provides services others aren’t interested in attempting)
8:27 Villar makes motion to have executive session… Neri will join Senators in executive session. Madrigal asks Neri what parameters are for Neri’s invoking executive privilege, anything he’s revealed concerning conversations with president, have been revealed with her permission? 200 bribe has permission of President? Neri says, Executive Secretary’s permission. Madrigal asks, so you had executive authority to impugn Abalos’s reputation? Not my intention, Neri says. Madrigal says he’s protecting FG and President, Neri answers heatedly, no. Enrile and Madrigal start squabbling. Cayetano intervenes and says they will now go into executive session.
(Madrigal gets reiteration of government policy to privatize telecoms from J3; Gordon tries bully his way to ask question; Cayetano tries to convince him to yield as others yielded; Gordon being bullheaded; Gordon says his concern is if they go into executive session everyone will go home)
8:35 Senators poised to move to lounge for executive session; Abalos asks for continuance; Gordon complains everyone will want to leave; Legarda says let Gordon asks his questions; Legarda squabbles with Gordon; everyone shakes head over Gordon’s insistence; Gordon wrangles with Cayetano; who holds his ground; more quibbling; Gordon and Cayetano start quarreling)
8:38 Gordon asks his question anyway. Neri asked to repeat Abalos’s offer. Gordon asks yet, you were not chagrined. There are basic courtesies, Neri replies. What was obligation in exchange for offer, Gordon asks? Neri says he doesn’t know what bribe was supposed to be in exchange for.
G: Possible offer was made to others involved in contract?
N: Nothing is impossible.
(Gordon drags out his questioning, getting Formoso to explain costs of bandwidth….)
Thank God Gordon stopped his stupid questions at 8:47 pm. Other witnesses excused, Hearing tom. 9:30 with 2 UP professors, de Dios, Fabella, and Jose Lichauco, and private sector operators on technical side. Today’s witnesses not required to attend. DOTC just asked to send rep, so they can refute what resource people might say. Abalos croaks thank you.
Executive session finally to start, with Neri, lawyer, and Blue Ribbon Committee lawyer.
(My comment: personally I haven’t been so close to agreeing to the abolition of the Senate in my life as I am now: stupid, stupid childish people! But then what would be worse is if these stupid, stupid childish people weren’t in office and left things entirely in the hands of the usual suspects in the House and the Executive; but really, stupid, childish, undisciplined, grandstanding, small-minded people could have come together and asked the relevant questions in 2 hours and pinned Neri, Abalos, and everyone including the President to the wall!!
One piece of advice for senators: COMPLETE STAFF WORK. One description of Neri: Switik.)
Postmortem: Lawer Marichu Lambino explains in her blog, what the President and her people have admitted and not admitted, to date, including Neri’s testimony.
Final update: 10:32 pm It seems Romulo Neri excused himself from executive session, saying he wasn’t feeling well (See Fever downs Neri; closed-door ZTE probe fails to push through). Meanwhile, Talks of bribery in NBN deal ‘uncorroborated’–Ermita. From New York, Jove Francisco blogs about President’s impending arrival in the USA:
Though the palace is quite aware of Secretary Romulo Neri’s appearance in the broadband deal investigation … it was impossible for the chief executive to have personally monitored the goings on at the upper chamber because she was in transit to New York.
Even Press Secretary Ignacio Bunye wasn’t abreast of what happened and even asked the members of the media delegation who arrived in the US ahead of the presidential entourage to brief him of what occured during the investigation.
Bunye managed to give a “blanket statement”: “I dont know what will be next, what’s important is that the president allowed Neri to testify and we will see what needs to be done”
Nonetheless the palace thinks Neri acted in good faith when he testified before the Senate.
Bunye: “The President has authorized Secretary Neri and at the very least, we can attribute good faith on the part of Secretary Neri.”
But when asked if the palace believe Neri is telling the truth…. Bunye just said: “as to whether he is saying the truth, it’s difficult to say because we were not there,”
Malacanang has gotten its second wind.
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