stronger, better, faster! I am absolutely ecstatic to know that you are still blogging, Nubian. I propose we have a virtual toast to your continued success.

Cheers! Congraulations! I'll be moving away from Blogspot soon. I switch from word press to blockspot about a month ago. What a fool I was. A virtual toast to you.

African American Political Pundit Give me a shout if you want a wordpress blog. I can host it for you.

Ed-
phelps.ed@gmail.com I hope to become that sometime in the not too distant future! When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person's thoughts simultaneously. Because of it's infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe. And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.

Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any dysfunctions you may experience (there is NO FREEWILL for the oblivious/undeceived disfavored). It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal's behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.


When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play to accomplish strategic objectives, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or "god" asking them to do something wrong. This is their way of using temptation to hurt people in this day and age:::::evil made people disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of "heaven" ultimately. Too many people would do anything they thought pleased the gods and improve their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by "made guys" who strategically ply evil for the throne. But nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.

Capitalizing on obedience, leading people deeper into evil by using deceit is one way to thin the ranks of the saved AND use the little people to prey on one another, dividing the community (migration to the suburbs, telepathic communication) in the Age of the Disfavored.
In each of their 20-30-year cycles during the 20th century they have ramped up claims sucessively to punish those foolish enough not to heed the warnings, justifying (frequently recurring tactic) limiting the time they receive if they do make it, utilizing a cycle of war and revelry:::
60s - Ironically, freeways aren't free
80s - Asked people to engage in evil in the course of their professional duties.
00s - Escallation of real estate. You and your parents are thrilled since your $200,000 house is now worth $1 million. Well, that $5,000,000 store is now worth $25,000,000 and that $50 bundle of goods now costs you $250. They just take the $200 out of you some other way.

There are many more examples throughout 20th century life of how they ramped up claims/instilled distractions into society so people wouldn't find their way and ascend, a way to justify excluding those whose family history of evil makes them undesirable:::radio, sports, movies, popular music, television, video games, the internet and MP3 (must pay for new format each time). They all suggest a very telling conclusion::this is Earth's end stage, and there are clues tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal:::Earth’s axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction. Much as Italy's boot and the United States shaped like a workhorse are clues, so is the planet Uranus a clue, it's axis rotated on its side.
The Mayans were specific 2012 would be the end. How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???

They gods (Counsel/Management Team/ruling species) have deteriorated life on earth precipitously in the last 40 years, from abortion to pornography, widespread drug use and widespread casual sex. The earth's elders, hundreds and thousands of years old, are disgusted and have become indifferent.
The gods are paving the way for the Apocolypse.
Nothing has changed from decades ago, since when we were all children::If you want to go to heaven you have to be good. People were misled by the temptation of the gods, the Counsel/Management Team, who don't want them to go, and now are in trouble.

The Old Testiment is a tool they used to impart wisdom to the people (except people have no freewill). For example, they must be some hominid species because they claim they made our bodies in their image. Anyhow we defile or deform the body will hurt our chance of going.
They say circumcision costs people anywhere from 12%-15%, perhaps out of the parent's time as well.
Another way people foul the body today is with tattoes and piercing. I suspect both are about the same percentage as circumcision.
They suggest abortion is fatal. These women must beg the gods to forgive them for their evil.
There are female eqivilents to circumcision::::pierced ears, plastic surgury and since at least the 60s young women give their precious virginity away. In the Old World the young people were matched at age 14 because they were ready for marriage. They were matched by elders who knew personalities better than 20 or 30-year olds who in today's age end up in divorce court.
CASUAL SEX WILL CLAIM YOU OUT!!! It masculinizes women (as does hip hop), makes them cold and deadens them, and prevents them from achieving a depth of love necessary for many women to ascend.
Women have a special voice that speaks to them, a voice that illustrates a potential for love that makes them better, and enaging in casual sex will cause that voice to fade until she no longer speaks.
Also ever since the 50s they have celebrated the "bad boy", and women have sought out bad boys for sex, dirtying them up in the eyes of the elders and corrupting many men in the process, setting the men on the wrong path for life.


The United States of America is red white and blue, a theme and a clue:::.
The monarchical system of the Old World closley replicates the heirarchical system of the Cousel/Management Team/ruling species. The USA deceives peoeple into thinking they have control, and the perception of "freedom" misleads them at least into the wrong way of thinking.
The United States is a cancer, a dumping ground for the disfavored around the world and why the quality of life is so much lower::gun violence, widespead social ills, health care (medication poisons the body and ensures you don't go. You are sick because you have disfavor.). Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.

If you ever have doubt I would refer you to the Old World way of life:::the elders used to sit and impart wisdom to the young. Now we watch DVDs and use the internet. People would be matched and married by age 14. They village would use a matchmaker or elders to pair young people. Now girls give their precious virginity away to some person in school and parents divorce while their children grow up without an important role model.


People must defy when asked to engage in evil. They will never get a easier clue suggesting the importance of defiance than the order not to pray.
Their precious babies are dependant on the parents and they need to defy when asked to betray their children:::
-DON'T get your sons circumcized
-DON'T have their children baptized in the Catholic Church or indoctrinated into Christianity.
-DON'T ignore their long hair or other behavioral disturbances.
-DO teach your children love, respect for others, humility and to honor the gods.

You need to pray, honor and respect them every day to improve your relationship with the gods. If they tell you not to it is a bad sign. it means they've made their decision, they don't want you to go and they don't want to be bothered.
This is the Age of the Disfavored and you need to pray::try to appease the gods by doing good deeds. If that doesn't work you must defy if you want to go.
When your peasant forefather was granted the rare opportunity to go before his royal family he went on his knees, bowing his head. You need to do this when you address the gods::bow down and submit to good. Never cast your eyes skyward. When you bow down you need to look within.
Lack of humility hurts people. Understand your insignificance and make sure it is reflected in the way you think when addressing the gods. Know your place and understand your inferiority.
They granted you life and they can take it just as easily.
Don't get frustrated or discouraged::these are techniques they will attempt to try to get you off the path. You all have much to be thankful for and you need to give thanks to the gods who granted you the good things in life. Your family may be grossly disfavored and progress may require patience. Make praying an intregal part of your life which you perform without fail, one that comes as naturally as eating or sleeping.
There are many interesting experiences up on the planetary systems, from Planet Miracle, where miracles happen every day, to other body experinces, such as experiencing life as the opposite sex (revolutionizes marriage counseling) or as an Olympic gold medal athelete.
Pray that you can differentiate between Artificial Intelligence creating problems by thinking through you and your own thoughts. If you bow down mentally and physically, know your place, your inferiority and allow your insignificance to be reflected in your prayer and in your life through humility they may allow progress and the dysfunctions they create with the computer will be lessened or removed.
Create a goal::to be a good child of the gods, pure of heart and mind, body and soul.


They have tried to sell people on all kinds of theories, from clones to wholesale population replacement with clones. This didin't happen and is not realistic.
I am afraid people are decieved into thinking they too are clones and cooperate and engage in evil. Clones are made, people are born. If you didn't experience the one week they suggest it takes to go from fertilized egg in the laboratory to full grown adult then you are not a clone. If you didin't experience the week of conditioning they give to (evil?) clones to ensure loyalty then you shoudln't comply with evil.
I believe people who go sometimes are replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing. Don't expect you are a clone. They sent people warnings in the 20th century life would change, and they subsequenlty began to alter people's DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc.
They get their friends out as soon as possible to protect them from the evil and subsequent high claim rates incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a clone instead, etc. It's the peasant whose brain is beemed out and put into a clone host, for they say those who do not go with the body given to them are on the clock.


Throughout history the ruling species bestowed favor upon people or cursed their bloodline into a pattern of disfavor for many generations to come. Now in the 21st century people must take it upon themselves to try to correct their family's problems, undoing centuries worth of abuse and neglect. The goal is to fix your problems and get out BEFORE you have children. This is why they have created so many distractions for young people:::sports, video games, popular music, the internet::to ensure that doesn't happen.
Do your research. Appeal to the royalty of your forefathers for help. They are all still alive, for royalty has great favor, and your appeals will be heard. Obtain a sufficient list for some may not want to assist you; perhaps some of your family's problems are internal.
Ask them for help, request guidance, for somewhere in your family history one of your forefathers created an offense that cast your family into this pattern of disfavor. I suspect they will offer you clues, and when you decipher these clues go to those whom consider you an enemy and beg for foregiveness:::Find a path to an empithetic ear among your enemies and try to make amends.
Again through discovery obtain a respectable list in case some among them refuse to help.
Don't forget to ask for forgiveness from the throne, the Counsel and the Management Team, for the source of all disfavor began with them:::they pushed (NO FREEWILL) or requested/complied (FREEWILL) your forefather into his offense and made his decendants evil. Perhaps they didn't like him or maybe your family was among those who had to pay for the entire village. We see this type of behavior today as they single out a family member to pay for the whole family and how they singled out Africa to pay for the human race.
Heal the disfavor with your enemies and with the Counsel/Management Team/ruling species, for the source of all disfavor began with them, the ability to forgive and respect in light of the disturbing truth revealed being the final test of the disfavored before they ascend.













In the 20th century they created an environment of preditor and victim, limiting how much time everybody gets, since the victim ultimately ends up despising the gods.



I wonder if their fear of my inarceration is borne from their refusal to address black disfavor on a macro level. The Counsel/Management Team/ruling species (the gods) abuse black people so hard, from the crack epiemic to gang membership, black-on-black violence and mass incarceration of their young. They refuse to address the issue of the prison industrial complex and its wholesale warehousing of young black men. Perhaps I can force them with my incarceration.

You are sick because you have disfavor. You need to imporove your relationship with the gods. Know your place, your inferiority and bow down mentally and physically.
Temptation takes many forms::: today the gods know how bad people want to please them, how bad they want to ascend and they will ask them to do evil things to tempt them, mislead them and cost them their chance.
Bow down and submit to good. Good woudl never ask you to circumcise your son or ignore behavioral disturbances.
You are the only one your children have and they are counting on you to do the right thing.
The gods will punish your evil by making you sick. Consider it a clue.



They stated sheep are foreign to earth, animals bestowed upon us for caretaking.
And they don’t appreciate them being consumed.
They state sheep are very intelligent animals who know what is ocurring at the slaughterhouse as they’re being led in.
There are many favored people who consume lamb, people who could do much better if they stopped eating these treasured animals so loved by so many among the ruling species.
There are clues::these jobs are very well paid, luring whites one would perceive as priveledged and hooking them once they incurr personal obligation. Only then do they find out the truth. to read about how educated African Americans feel out our youth culture, read www.youngblackman.wordpress.com

articles include:
(1) be the middle class negro that you are
(2) domestic violence - prosecute your man
(3) black women in clubs - you ask to be disrespected. frustration what the... they trippin' That's ill in your face!
It never ceases to amaze me what some people get away with... YUK. When I saw this ad this morning, I was/ and still am speechless. unbelievable. what is most upsetting, is that the black woman has no body, only her head. and her head is in the angry grips of a full bodied white woman with a scowl on her face while the black women looks on with a look of fear on her face. also, the black woman is in a lower position than the white woman (who looks larger than life)

i gotta start a letter writing campaign about this to playstation. this is very, very disturbing. I'll also be writing a letter. That ad is so far beyond any decency I don't even know what to say. Oops, that last "anonymous" message was from me--Crys T what the hell? I'm speechless. Wow... did advertising people not get the hint from black folks with the Benneton ads of the early 90s? This upsetting on so many levels. I don't even have the words. oh

my

goodness Holy crap.

My take on it is that this is the "mainstreaming" of the pseudo-hip racism that's been percolating in the wannabe hipsters in the NY area that come from super-wealth. Through a long, convuluted process, I blame Paris Hilton. (Sort of kidding.) *wow* who the fuck gets paid to generate crap like that? oh no this will NOT be the focal point for their advertisement...i'm not speechless...i'm pissed off!


*grabbing paper and pen* What? That is the most irrational, horrible ad. I'll write a letter. This isn't the first time Sony has annoyed folks with their tin ear. Other PSP TV ads featuring respectively squirrels with stereotypical 'black' accents and dustballs with stereotypical 'mexican' accents managed to annoy me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YExur4NgPKs <--the annoying one with the squirrels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGPkhtjNUuA
<--the dumb one with the dustballs.

I'm full of hate. And the PS3 is going to cost $500. Dick move, Sony, dick move. some days, dead prez's fuck the law makes a lot of sense to me. i'll be sure to include this in the letter writing sunday (unless you want to guest-write the post:) just when we thought it couldn't get any worse in the sick world of advertising...... I really think race relations uin the U.S. are confusing to foreign, especially Asian, companies. A hong Kong-based bank ran ads on the New York City subway that basically said "goshwow, New York sure has a lot of different people in it! And you all live in the same city, the same neighborhoods, sometimes even the same apartment building! Isn't that weird?" Which to my mind was entirely the wrong approach; I think this is the same tone-deafness. They (Sony) think we're as fascinated by the differences as they are, and in the same way as they are: as an academic thing not connected to the real world. Hersh,

Hon, I hate to say this, but I think you are giving their advertising too much credit of stupidity and ignorance. Honestly, they would have contracted an American advertising agency to do this ... which, of course, makes it even worse ... Ya know, I was gonna get a new PlayStation, and now I'm reconsidering.

If there are enough others like me...you'd think the Sony folks would notice THAT. I can't tell for sure... but from first glance I thought the black face was *male;* making the entire thing about *sex* (which pretty much covers the entire gamut of American advertising strategy).

This too may be offensive; but I live by the motto "never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity."

Fat Bastard this is what f*cked up $hit is for . . . post it there too!! how crazy is the world?! i called the number and talked to a "shawn" he said the address was the best way to go. I'm not quite convinced, if it really is a Sony ad its a disgrace. However their website has no advertisment like this and I beleive this photo wasn't even taken in the US. Think before you hate. this ad is only running in the netherlands, i believe -- fyi. still majorly fucked up. jesus, and i thought those fucking jetta ads where they try to hijack 'traditional' experiences with racism for [white, male] jetta owners was bad. this is simply astonishing.

what is the deal with all this smug "i'm-a-hipster-yuppie-so-it's-okay" bullshit in advertising lately?? From what I see, it looks more like a punk-style White female showing attitude at a young Black male (and he does have a body; it's just that his black shirt is lost in the black background).

Not particularly the best of advertising, and a bit insulting and pretty close to racist...but par for the course for Sony.

Just a yawn for me..but I can understand why you would be upset....so fire your letters at will.


Anthony Okay, this is just one part of a three part ad. Take in all of it before you leap to silly conclusions: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/04/ad-critic-sonys-racially-charged-psp-ad/ I went to the link, and you know what? NONE of those pictures are good. Really. All of them are about domination. Maybe the cultural attitude is different in Europe, where it seems these ads are running, but it sure as hell looks like racism to me. Out of all of the hundred or so possible ways they could have demonstrated "we're coming out with a new product", they chose THIS ONE? Sick, sick, sick.

There's really no way to defend it. Obviously, most people here haven't seen all three pictures. Nice of you to make assumptions about what people think knowing that they do not have all the information. :::eyeroll:::

I still believe this campaign is done in very, very poor taste and obviously plays on racial tension.

Bottom-line: It's still bullshit. lmbao....

that's tough. This is one of the most offensive ads I've ever seen. I'm writing to Sony right away. From a marketing perspective, the ads have done their job: they're intended to announce the releae of a highly-anticipated product, so it's unlikely that their sales will be affected by the outrage. This is as clear-cut a case of "any publicity is good publicity" as you'll ever find.

That said, the full layout can't be naively condemned as racist, since it plays into more than racialist attitudes. It's a "cat fight" in which the black woman wins, and is part of a campaign aimed at adolescent males and the men who behave like them. So you have to factor in the appeal of normative, white and "exotic," black sexuality, then add to it the lesbian tension, and what you have is an appeal to acceptable transgressive sexual relations. Which, of course, only exist in the minds of adolescent boys who wish they could impose their will and selves of lesbians of all races. It must be tough going through life, just sitting around, waiting to be offended.

Get a grip. lordy lordy.
to me, it's a poor ad done in poor taste.
why are advertisers to goshdarned tonedeaf to this kinda stuff! Cortex, what the hell difference does it make that in the final panel, the black woman "wins"? How does that erase or diminish the racism there? And from what I can see, a lot of people only got the first panel in the beginning, so that was the image with the most impact. All I can see is that all 3 images together make the ad not only unbelievably racist but repulsively misogynist as well. Well done, Sony.

Why the hell are YOU rushing in to defend Sony's interests anyway? Are you their shill?

Crys T I just get tired of the racism crutch. Racial equality is acheived when race is ignored, not flaunted.

As for defending Sony. . . no way. I hate Sony and never buy their products. But I hate them for substantive reasons like belonging to the MPAA, belonging to the RIAA, their support of DRM, their support of the broadcast flag, their refusal to agree to a high-definition DVD standard and sticking to their inferior Blue-Ray format, their assumption that the consumer will run out and buy a PS3 no matter what a piece of shit it is, their forced installation of rootkits on customers' computers, etc., etc., etc. Racial equality is acheived when race is ignored, not flaunted.

lol, wow ... could that possibly be more wrong? DAMN ... Don't agree with MLK's dream? How can you judge someone "by the content of their character" if you're so focused on the color of their skin? Ummm... Maybe the only ones seeing race is ya'll. Maybe Sony really was trying to contrast the colors... and maybe you all are just too busy seeing the races of the people INSTEAD of the artistic contrast. Maybe you all are the racists. Oh my god. I thought this was the most offensive sign I'd seen today, but this takes the cake, now and forever.

I'll be writing a letter. Anon:
Yeah, the black backdrop of the ad--which completely obscures the Black woman in the black clothing-- REALLY brings out the contrast of color. SiC, I'll defer to you on sociology, but this one is my field. Pretending for the moment that this is the American, rather than the Dutch, campaign: An American advertising agency run by rich old white men may not see anything wrong with this. Besides, an ad agency is a business, and clients are customers; the most they can really do is gently suggest that a campaign concept may not be the best choice, and say "I told you so" when it fails.

And if cortex reaver can look at this and see only a white person and a black person, and notice nothing about how they're interacting (not that I really believe that), it's totally possible the Sony people can see it that way too. Oh rubbish, Cortex: whenever an ad gets trashed, loads of people suddenly emerge from the woodwork to defend it in a way that just doesn't happen when the racist/sexist incident in question isn't related to a multinational.

Crys T So I emailed Sony's customer care office with this (it's not eloquent, but I was upset):

I'm not sure how else to contact you. I have been a proud Sony customer for years and years. My computer, both digital cameras, DVD/VCR, and many other products, are all Sony.

Unfortunately, I do not think I can ever buy another product of yours.

The advertisement you ran picturing a white woman grabbing the face of a slightly-obscured black woman was racist and horrifying. I cannot believe anyone thought that ad was ok. It is horribly, horribly racist. I cannot buy your products any more. Because I have really enjoyed your products, this makes me sad, but my morals have to stand above my consumer choices.

Shame on you.

And got this reply:

Thank you for your comments regarding your recent Sony visit.

When a customer purchases from Sony, our goal is complete satisfaction with the product.

Your comments and suggestions enable us to continuously improve and they will be reviewed by the appropriate departments empowered to implement them as appropriate.

Sony Direct Customer Care
www.sonystyle.com

Guess I'll have to be less lazy and actually call the phone number you provided. Not that I should have expected a customer care complaint to do much... Of course this ad is racist. It plays to people's (white people's) desire for the excitement of racially transgressive imagery, coupled with white people's desire to feel like victims--"oooh, you people are so SENSITIVE and it's just a PICTURE and can't a poor white girl do ANYTHING right?". In fact, that's what I hate most about this ad--that the reaction it's supposed to generate is "I'm so cool, so post-racist, so I'm superior to all the dumb old-fashioned people mired in the 'civil rights' mentality". Don't think Sony doesn't know this is racist--Sony knows it's racist, and they want white people to feel like they are hipper than those boring PC anti-racists. As far as I can tell, Sony actually wants to use racism to sell its products. Just because it's different from the racist kitsch of the early 20th century doesn't mean it's less intentional.

Although I do think that Scott Eric Kauffman is correct to say that the whole catfight/sexy 'lesbianism' performed for white straight boys/transgressive thing is a big piece too.

A big piece of my mind is what I'll be giving Sony as soon as I'm off the clock. this is absolutly insane... Scott Ramoosair did a comic on the derogatory PSP squirrel commercials here. He's in a whole new ballgame with this one. Bloody hell.

I'd agree that the ad agency is probably being "controversial" (read: offensive) on purpose. Which is probably even worse than doing it out of ignorance. lol Hersh, okay hon I'll take your word for it here, they truly are that stupid.

I love how we are just disagreeing merely on precisely HOW dumbarse these ad execs are, rather than simply if they are :) I sent a card saying I was going to buy a PSP for my kids for Xmas, and now I won't (all true) because I'm not going to support the use of racist imagery. I grew up in the South in the last years of Jim Crow, and frankly, if you don't see this as a racist image, I'd suggest you need to study a bit of recent US history. Racism tends to be coded these last couple decades (all that crap about the confederate flag, George Allen), but trust me, racists understand it. And they get a naughty little thrill out of it.

We have the right to make our purchasing decisions based on this, and I think we ought to let them know they've just influenced us to spend our money elsewhere.

Telly Havalas Somebody call me when the red, yellow, and brown PSPs come out. I can not WAIT to see those ads... Hey there,

I called Sony, and after a lot of phone stuff got through to a customer service guy who gave me this address: SCEA/ Attention Consumer Affairs/PO Box 5888/San Mateo CA 94402-0888

This might be more targeted than the other, although I'm sure both would get there. Let's all send letters.

And I composed an email to the ad agency someone said might be behind the campaign, prefacing it with "Is TBVA responsible for....if so, then..." on the theory that it won't hurt any agency to hear that racism doesn't help.

Those ^$%^%$^%#%^$ get on my last nerve!

They're racist AND patronizing AND macho idiots. And THIS is supposed to be Sony's hip new redesign! It's about as hip as some idiot suburbanite driving in a big (white) SUV! All about "oooh, look at me, I'm cool and transgressive!" Like %^$^%$ you are! Sony is a Japanese company but this was written by an American ad company.

Tossers. I was thinkin to buy a new Playstation, now they have lost one customer to XBOX Racism is a "Global System;" what plays in Peoria will play in Peking.

I made my call; a sister took it, got my name and number and said someone would call me back. Meanwhile, I told her I found the ad extremely offensive and racist.

My phone hasn't rung yet... Thanks for posting this, Nubian. It's a very interesting topic, and I wrote about it on my blog.

Capitalism At Work: What's Wrong With This Ad? Outrageous. And it should not just be up to black bloggers to organize a boycott of SONY. "Progressive" bloggers of all races, genders, sexualities, nationalities, religions, and ethnicities need to let SONY know that this racist crap just won't fly. just to let everyone know:

i personally think this ad is offensive. i think sony probably didn't think through their marketing scheme when they came up with this one. it could be about sex, lesbian love, power, domination...whatever. i am not trying to persuede folks into thinking it is racist simply because it is a black woman in the grips of an angry white womans hands--you draw your own conclusions. there are three panels that make up this advertising campaign, and i still think all of them are offensive. to me at least. and why in both ads, does the white woman have a strong grip on the black womans face? --does it represent her control over the black woman, even if she is "on top"?

white power will always prevail, so it seems.

maybe i will write a posting about this more later. i have a number of thoughts circling through my head. Im sorry but I believe that you are reading far too into this. It is simply an ad from Sony potraying the white PsP (White person) taking over the black PsP (Black person) It is in the spirit of the PsPs taking control, Not acctual people.

I still don't get why people just assume that when something is painted black and white that it is racist. It's borderline racist for you to incinuate that this was made in a racist jest. Are you going to tell me that every Black Comedian should be shut up because he talks of stereotypes of whites? No, And I dont think so either. And those are far more racist than this add. And in light of seeing so many of your readers writing complaint letters, I will be writing a letter of my own to sony and telling them that what they've done isnt racist and that some people need to realize that they only help racism by bringing such nonsence into the realm of being racist This post has been removed by the author. I really don't know why I bother at times, maybe it's the masochist in me. But here goes.

BF, Firstly I am made aware from your comment, that you are unaware of what racism is. Really though, why should you be aware right? You speak of things painted black and white as being called racist, The women in that add are not PAINTED black and white. That is a black woman and a white woman who are engaged in a battle that is predicated on their respective pigmentation ie their race. These pigmentations are not devoid of context, something is not racist soley due to what it depicts, but also the fact that it exists in a particular global, social and political system.

You made me laugh when you said it was "borderline racist" for people to critique an image that offends them and provide a basis for that critique, again I can see that you are not aware of what racism is, nor the manner in which it is articulated and reproduced for the benefit of some in the world. I thought the first image had a black man. I guess that is supposed to speak about the way the white woman has the black man obsessed. It is in the spirit of the PsPs taking control, Not acctual people.

hahahahahahahahaha Japan has a history of these types of depictions of black people. At "sister in Toyoko" and "fiancial confessions of a college graduate" blogs have had posts about racism in Japan. Both blogs are written by young women currently studing in Japan. So I emailed Sony Canada yesterday and I actually got a response from a real person this morning:

Jenny, got your note.

While I don't condone the advertisement in question, it has absolutely
nothing to do with Sony of Canada. Sony of Canada does not market
PlayStation products in Canada. That effort is performed by another
company.

I have forwarded your concerns to my contacts in the PlayStation
organization for their information.

Thanks!

JC

John B. Challinor II APR
General Manager, Advertising
& Corporate Communications
Sony of Canada Limited
115 Gordon Baker Road
Toronto, Ontario
M2H 3R6

I'm pretty surprised. So, Cortex Weaver-- what are you doing to eliminate white privilege?

Since you're so facile with the "racism crutch" bit... Whites who whine about the "racism crutch" and other moronic right-wing memes must always be questioned: What have you done today to eliminate the system of white privilege? Here is someone elses take on the billboard that I found a perfect representation of my thoughts;

"No one is offended that the billboard suggests a precursor to violence. No one is offended that it's two women involved in violence. If it had been two white women, one in a white suit, one in a black suit, nobody would say a thing.

Furthermore, nobody has said word one about the version of the ad where the black woman is dominating the white woman. And I'm willing to bet that if that image had been on the billboard instead, nobody would have said a thing. At least not publicly.

So ask yourself, honestly, why it's offensive to you. Because the billboard doesn't depict slavery. Not in the slightest. If the black woman was picking cotton, and the white woman was standing over her with a whip, then hell yes it would be offensive. But it's just two people squaring off, and one of them has the upper hand. So why does it matter to you which one that is?

Because if we really want to reach the level of equality in our society that we all say we do, we need to stop dwelling on the past. Slavery is abolished. Has been for a good long time. Not a single one of us Americans owned slaves, or was a slave. It was a horrible period in time, but it's over. Being oversensitive about things like this billboard is what's keeping this racial tension alive. If you ask yourself honestly, you may find that you don't actually think the billboard is offensive, but that you've just been taught it's offensive.

Stop making race a big deal, and race stops being a big deal." ITS DA WAY OF DA FLESH...And always will be.....We are Souritual Beings Our True Heritage is ine of SPIRIT.
In the flesh there will always be Dominance...There has to be. It doesn't matter what race , or character is the dominant one...The Fact that the words Dominant, Winner, Better etc etc Do exist, then the appropiate manifestation in the flesh will always be. So to argue against it is Futile....Muhamahd Ali (was the champ) and now there is another.
All things pass...and are ever changing....Make the good things passing take an Eternity, Like Peace, and serenity. Right on Goddessdiva
GIVE PEACE OUR ATTENTION , AND LET IT FILL UP THE SPACE FOR ETERNITY
Always LilDarlin The argument that these ads aren't about race is disingenuous or worse. The ad equates a black woman with a black product because of her skin color, and it equates a white woman with a white product because of her skin color. For the purpose of this ad, the most important thing about each woman is the color of her skin. How is this not about race? And how is Sony's attempt to sell products by appealing to racial conflict not racist? At the very least, Sony has turned someone's suffering into a marketing ploy.

This is to say nothing of the disturbing implications of Sony's decision to use women to represent commodities. The ad begs us to read it in racial terms, but as others have already said, there's a lot else going on there, too.

Kortney, I've just discovered your blog and am finding it really thought-provoking. I'd definitely be interested in reading a more sustained post about this ad, if you decide to write one later. this is wrong on so many levels....thanx for providing the address. shamefully this will only be the 2nd letter i've ever written to voice my outrage, but i'm taking a moment to do so--

aim, ready, fire BlankFile said.....

"Because if we really want to reach the level of equality in our society that we all say we do, we need to stop dwelling on the past. Slavery is abolished. Has been for a good long time. Not a single one of us Americans owned slaves, or was a slave. It was a horrible period in time, but it's over. Being oversensitive about things like this billboard is what's keeping this racial tension alive. If you ask yourself honestly, you may find that you don't actually think the billboard is offensive, but that you've just been taught it's offensive."

That's all bullshit, simplistic and a deflection. Fact is, racism is still alive. And denying it is the reason why it continues to exist.

Why is it that so many DECENT white people can readily acknowledge that racism does exist and they do their part to eradicate it? But other whites and some Negroes erroneously believe that if we stopped talking about it, it would go away? It goes away by talking about it.

And why are black people of the western hemisphere the only one's told to give up their past? Why? Some people just celebrated the 4th of July. Isn't that a holiday honoring and remembering the past?

Furthermore, you'd never tell a Jew "it's over" in regards to the Holocaust. How about telling the relatives of 9-11 "it's over" - essentially "move on". How about the black people of South Africa, Palestine, Rwanda, or Darfur?

And have you forgotten that they just took down, "White Only" signs yesterday? Do you realize how many people from that era are still alive?

The signs are gone sweetheart, but racism is alive and well. And this is coming from a black man who doesn't believe the ads are racist, however, I chose to respect how others interpret the ads.

The racial climate of America might have improved over time, but that is ONLY because racism was CONFRONTED - not swept under the rug.

Let's not be blind or oblivious to the fact that racism still exists because it doesn't help the situation either. Whites who whine about the "racism crutch" and other moronic right-wing memes must always be questioned: What have you done today to eliminate the system of white privilege?

Please post a list of things I should do, personally, to "eliminate the system of white privilege". I'll then attempt to do them. Keep in mind that I'm self-employed and work from home, so I don't have any influence in the working world. However, if there's something I can do in my house, or while out grocery shopping, or online, I'll happily oblige. I just honestly don't know firm examples of what you're asking me for. "Amendment XIII - Slavery Abolished. Ratified 12/6/1865. History

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, [except] as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction..."

Slavery, nor racism are ovah by a longshot; just ask the niggas toiling in jails, prisons and sweatshops globally.

The folks working on these kind of ad campaigns are quite similar to "Anne C" and "blank boy". They ain't clueless; they're soul-less. No amount of conversation can heal the disorder that they suffer.

Yeah, we created "slavery." And mathematics, astronomy, philosophy, civilization ad. And YOU were the first albino slave-nigga rejects. No wonder ya'll hate us so much. But its self-hate turned outward.

I no longer expect the average joe or jane to have any comprehension of their malady. Poor babies. this is the coolest ad I have ever seen. Why didn't they think of this years ago. When Japanese society 'Westernized'
they accepted all things western including white racist thinking. This add reflects how Japanese look at (Gaijin) foreigners who are black and white and at odds. It is interesting that they did not choose to depict a WWII theme with a bright yellow Japanese woman squeezing the face of the white woman. I think this is probably because they have come to identify too closely with the white race. This advertisement is European. Ah, yes, Europe: where religion, not race, is where pointless hatred and tension comes from. America, however, doesn't care what you believe, just as long as you look like me. It's honestly really silly. I believe the moment one acknowlegdes race, and then changes their attitude because of that, whether you become uncomfortable and announce it, or you become uncomfortable, and try to hide it by paying "extra attention".

I'm getting sidetracked. The point I am trying to make is that, when one becomes offended by something, it further perpetuates said offense. Example, the fact that you find this advertisement offensive, makes it offensive. Things are offensive because people make them that way. Children, who are often untouched by the hatred and tension of the world, don't understand how this is offensive.
I asked a seven year old "black" child I babysit, "What do you think of this?"
She answered, "That lady has poofy hair."(reffering to the white woman)

I really do agree with Cortex, for the most part.

It also seems a little foolish to think, "There is a black woman in this advertisement, that must obviously mean, that since the white woman has the black womans face in her gloved hand, that Sony hates all black people, and can't even bare to touch them." *woman's Arynne, you are missing the point by kilometers. Firstly, since when is race not an issue in Europe, yes, even in the Netherlands? You can't get past me with that one, because I live in Europe and there is a LOT of racism here.

Secondly, so you asked a small Black child, so what? The ad is aimed at adults who are more aware of context.

The ad is playing off the women's skin colours, full stop. There is no way around that. The ad is also show images of domination that play off the skin colours. There is no way around that.

The ad is racist.

Crys T Sorry Crys T but it is you who is missing the point. Immidiadtly you jump at what you are taught the message is saying, which is that it is racist because it is black and white. Refer to my other post from someone elses blog. That explains my feelings on this This is disturbing, but it's not terribly different from many video games that are produced today... it's just a "real life"-looking ad depicting it. Yes, the racial-conflict implied by the ad is offensive (especially because most Whites and Blacks in the US can get along on an inter-personal level, it's the institutional level where even bigger problems such as White supremacy exist), but the sexual objectification and violence is even more inappropriate. Why does the White woman have to be wearing skimpy clothes when she is "fighting" (whether she's defending herself or attacking someone)? It's clear that we're supposed to get off on not only the violence but also the sexual titilation of a scantily clad woman doing it. But, video games depict horrific violence often, and this just reflects that. And video games are obviously a reflection of our societal values.

So, what's more effective here? Working to stop a violent, racist, sexist ad? Working to stop violent, racist, sexist video games? Or (I'll let you guess where I stand...) try to do away with the sentimentality in Western culture that endorses real-life violence, racism, and sexism? If we didn't have such a violent culture, it wouldn't be possible to fetishize this sort of thing in the mass media. If we are truly committed to this end, we should advocate the end to wars, domestic abuse, sexual assault, patriarchical relations, heterosexism, White supremacy and the quasi-caste system it supports, violent machismo, etc. And I think we should be involved in these struggles!
Arynne De Large. said...

"This advertisement is European. Ah, yes, Europe: where religion, not race, is where pointless hatred and tension comes from."

Then how do you explain "monkey sounds" and "monkey grunts" made by white soccer fans to black soccer players who play on or against European teams? Especially fans in Spain.

I guess that isn't racist.

How do you explain German skinheads attacking blacks in that country?

I guess that isn't racist either.

How do you explain the origins of recent riots by people of color in France?

I guess race hasn't played a factor?

Europe might not be as famous or notorious for its racial problems as America, but they do have them - especially now that more and more blacks from around the world are migrating to Europe.

Come on now....Arynne De Large (Sorry if its been covered just my feelings about the “issue”)

I wierd choice of promoting the black and white color option with black and white people but..
I just think we are making big mistakes in the way we go about promoting equality of race, huge, hypocritical, counter productive mistakes. For us to be equal we have to let all groups and genders be depicted in a variety of roles and power positions because these types of dynamics are universal in people, nature doesn’t divide itself along lines of race and gender in these areas, To say black and white people/ can not be depicted to be fighting is neurotic, the only reason it becomes an issue is because of prejudice, the automatic conditioned response many Americans have to conflate any image of blacks and whites with the past, your learned ideals about race and race tension, the academic box of power dynamics between white and black people if you will, does it add up to modern reality? I think it exposes an inability to move forward out of the past into an equal society where an image of a black and white person fighting elicits no greater response than that of black on black or white on white that sounds like a tolerant society to me. Well as a black american female all I can say is these ads are racist to me at all nor sexist just by the fact they depict women and women of different colors. I actually think the ads are quite beautiful stylistically and a very good play on playstation introducing a white device (who's previous devices were black).

Having said that I see how people could perceive it as racist. Especially in America where the context of our exisence is defined by race. And white people feel like they are being overwhelmed by the dark hordes and have to fight back. Totally understandable.

But as a person who doesn't constantly look at race or whoes consciousness isn't totally occupied with race or oppressed with the fear of racism I don't get any feelings of racism from the ad. To me it is what it is. Two beautiful and beautifully shot women(instead of doing the hokey thing and painted one black, the used the actual physical nature of the people)and they represented a black PSP and the rising up of a white PSP. I don't find anything sexist with showing two women at combat anymore do I feel watching Laila Ali fight another women. But the ad itself is sexy. Nothing wrong with sexy. As a women I like being sexy, looking sexy and other people thinking I'm sexy and I appreciate sex appeal in men and women. And if the woman in white is that "scantily" clad, then I guess we need to start wearing burkas. are=aren't You know, I don't like the sort of 'sex' appeal that is depicited in this ad as well. It seems to have a catfight sort of feel to it, as if all videogamers are teen males who think look, chicks fighting cool! It's the kind of thing that makes folks think videogames are a boys' club, when it really appeals to everyone.

And this also adds to the perception that games are just for whites- when I see an ad like that, I don't feel included- and the squirel ads are even more turn off. Especially since I know that these ads are sort of a cynical ploy- white folks think racism is cool and edgy. So by hurting us, they hope to be seen as cool by young white males who think hurting people of color is funny and cool.

Sigh, they are all our children and we haven't done what we needed for them, so they turn to this sort of culture where other's pain is their entertainment. Jesus H. What the hell is this shit about? For some reason, I'm still amazed that shit like this gets this far- that someone said, "Hey, this is a great idea," and other people agreed, and it went through all the work to make the ad, and no one along the way, not one person, said, "Excuse me, this is a little fucked up." And what the hell are they advertising anyway? Besides racism? You know, another interesting point: When I first saw this ad, i couldn't figure out what the big deal was- because I couldn't see the black woman. She was invisible because of the dark background. You know, if they had to stick to a race metaphor, they could have at least had two men, one black and one white, making out. That would have actually been gutsy. This ad? Not so much gutsy as stupid.


Cheers,

TH (And blatantly racist, but then I've already said that on two or three other blogs. Cheers, TH) Not racist at all. The world will never be able to eliminate all images or words that trigger some sort of negative emotional reaction in at least SOME people. The way to reduce hate is not to try and eradicate everything that might offend people, rather it is to temper our own feelings of "offendedness." If everyone walks around all day trying to find things that piss them off, they will succeed. People who go around giving the benefit of the doubt and accepting that many people are just ignorant will live much happier and more fulfilling lives. Hating haters is still hate. Projecting racism is racism. If the original playstation was purple and the new one was green, and the adds were done with models in those colors this would not be an issue. The devices are white and black - the adds are white and black. In the artists mind they are not an African and a Caucasian - they are a PSP Black and a PSP White. Attractive women were used because, well, everybody likes to look at attractive women. If you want to call it anything call it sexist - but then you'd have to call 99% of all advertising sexist, and that is a different conversation. "projecting racism is racism"...
i would laugh if i weren't so distressed about that statement.

really, if you believe that, you probably support the bills going around this country to stop collecting statistics about race... because if you don't see it, it isn't there, right?

you and those who follow the same line as you seem to think that folks think long and hard about what "offends" them. that's a strong misinterpretation.

also, i fear that the linguistic weirdness of the 90s may have a lasting effect - not of people respecting one another more with how they speak, but of people being sick of "political correctness"...

seen, this isn't about political correctness, this is about respect.

get it straight...

there are a lot of things white people, like you and i, are conditioned not to be aware of... that's part of our privilege... if we then pretend that our experience is universal and that people who are more aware of some things than us are "reverse racists" or whatever the vogue term is, we effectively cut ourselves off from the rest of human experience.

and that's no fun.

also, regarding the multicolored playstation argument... i haven't yet met a black person who is BLACK like the playstation is. it's a different thing to work with abstract colors... melanin does not turn anyone black...

as far as the point about the ad being sexist, most definitely... great point...

just check the other stuff at the door, because it's a little off kilter. Just like the others, I have to comment on this one. I'm a graphic designer, and just when I think I understand advertising, something like this is printed. One good thing the kiling fields (school) taught me was that advertising is based on subliminal messages. "Especially in America where the context of our exisence is defined by race. And white people feel like they are being overwhelmed by the dark hordes and have to fight back. Totally understandable."--Zakira

IS that how all white people think?

Wow good thing sites like this exist to promote racial unity.:/ Nubian, I don't know how you stand the stupid.

Slavery was like SO 1860!!! *hair flip* There has been like ZERO racism since then!!! Maybe a good tangential thread would be for people to give their definitions of racism. What elements does an action, a phrase (or an advertisement for that matter) have to contain in order to be racist? Nubian: I bet you could write a dissertation just analyzing the stupid as it manifests right here in your blog.

Michelle: can I touch your hair? Jh-

When I mean "All" I'll say "All" Puck

FYI, black people range from BLACK (yes, as black as that playstation), some so black they look black/purple or black/blue (bantu) to what we call red or high yellow When I called this afternoon, the (presumably white) tech support guy, "Brian," said that he wasn't familiar with the campaign in question, and seemed surprised that anybody in the U.S. even knew about it, since the product isn't available here yet. I was apparently the first person to complain about it to him.

He asked a lot of specific questions about what was in the ads. He didn't really question why this would be offensive (though I couldn't tell if he understood or not), and apologized more than once.

He said he would pass this along (though he didn't mention to whom, exactly). Unlike the person mb (way upthread) talked to, he didn't say anything about writing a letter. I got the impression that Sony is big enough that it's extensively subdivided: the PSP people don't really talk to the marketing people, and the marketing people don't talk to the tech support people, and so on and so forth. This post has been removed by the author. wow, my goodness! look at this,
your blog is booming and bustling with people like a field of mushrooms after the rain...

i guess that's how we're going to keep in touch soon, huh? by commenting and seeing what we're up to on each other's blogs... although, no, there are too many peeps here and my words will get lots and unnoticed. and as you know i don't like that ;))

i see what you were saying about the second image though. i agree with your analysis, they're both very racist no matter how you look at them, advantaging the "white" and commodifying and "savagifying" the dark. the black, to be precise.

i can't even look at those, and i can't believe someone actually thought it was a good idea to use skin color to represent technology, in any way, shape or form. not to mention in what manner they chose to depict it: only a racist person, who is subconsciously so used to the idea that whites are superior, can see and say that there's nothing wrong with the images.

this is fucked up from every possible angle and it pisses me off to no expression. what audacity and obnoxiousness. LOL @ Delux...

Sure! It doesn't offend me at all! I don't know why black girls get so worked up about it! It couldn't be the fact that you get this request 10 times a day or that people feel entitled to grab it without asking! zakia,

this argument is just ridiculous. i've never met anyone with skin the same color as a playstation (or ink or the file cabinets facing me or even the blue/black of the night sky with no lights on)...

and i have known people from mozambique, south africa, dr of congo, ghana, angola... i know plenty of "black" people with all different colors of skin - none of them are the same color as the playstation...

but, like i said, i'm just going on what i know... so i guess you know some folks i don't...

and this ad strikes me as referencing "black" and "white" (never met a truly WHITE person, and i used to go to school with a kid who was albino - his HAIR was white, for sure) not only because the racial classifications we have created hold the same names as the colors they are not, but because violence between white and black people is a destructive cliche an advertiser can lazily access for the sake of "controversy"... This post has been removed by the author. oh, i forgot to say that i was literally shocked to see how many others posts and linkings this post inspired, huh?

i understand that NOT all of them by far must be positive, BUT the important point is that you stirred up some shit and made people mad cuz you made them hear what they don't like to hear, because it reveals their true natures, and who likes criticism, especially when it's true?

good job, bb! this isn't meant to impede the conversation... only to inform it and offer some relief to those of us who were genuinely distressed by what the ad represented.

the ad has been pulled.
see the press release below.

----
For Immediate Release: Contact: Adam J. Keigwin

July 11, 2006 (916) 319-2012 or (916) 256-5758
Sony Pulls Racially-Charged Billboards


Assemblyman Yee, NAACP, Sojourn Commend Corporation for Ending Ad Campaign

SACRAMENTO – A week after Assembly Speaker pro Tem Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/Daly City), the NAACP, and Sojourn to the Past – a youth civil rights education project, condemned Sony Corporation for a racially charged advertisement in the Netherlands, Sony has pulled the billboard campaign and apologized to those offended. Today, Yee and other civil rights leaders commended Sony for their latest action.

Sony said in a statement issued by Nick Sharples, Director of Corporate Communications in Europe: “We further recognize that people have a wide variety of perceptions about such imagery and we wish to apologize to those who perceived the advert differently to that intended. In future, we will apply greater sensitivity in our selection of campaign imagery, and will take due account of the increasingly global reach of such local adverts, and their potential impact in other countries.”

“I am pleased to see Sony taking responsibility for their racially-charged ad and appropriately pulling it from the marketplace,” said Yee. “Sony did the right thing by recognizing their insensitive mistake and apologizing for offending many of their customers.”

The ad, promoting the release of Sony’s new white-cased portable video game system (PSP), depicted a white woman angrily grabbing a black woman in the face with the text “Playstation Portable. White is coming.”

“Sony has done the honorable thing by owning up to the fact that communication and ads in today’s global market have a much further reach than in the past,” said Rick Callender, President of San Jose/Silicon Valley NAACP. “Their attempt to contrast colors clearly created controversy and sparked painful feelings in the global community. Hopefully in the future, Sony will employ a better litmus test to their ad campaigns to determine if they will be sour to the taste of worldwide consumers. I commend them for their actions.”

“Working with young people, Sojourn to the Past teaches many lessons of the Civil Rights Movement including the capacity to change and forgiveness,” said Jeff Steinberg, Sojourn to the Past’s Executive Director. “By ending this ad campaign, Sony deserves credit for righting their wrong. We urge all corporations to no longer use such derogatory and racially-charged images to sell their products. These tactics only serve to divide us.”

“Unfortunately, this is not the first such racial incident the video game industry has faced,” said Yee, author of California’s law to prohibit sales of extremely violent video games to minors. “Many games, including Postal 2 and the Grand Theft Auto series, have faced similar criticism due to their racist images and themes.”

Postal 2 has received significant criticism from civil rights and women’s groups for its over the top depictions of a woman being assaulted and African American characters being dowsed with gasoline and lit on fire, followed by a dialogue that includes, “mmm, smells like chicken,” “now there’s welfare reform for you,” and “I guess it would have been more politically correct to kill the women and the minorities first.” Grand Theft Auto: Vice City garnered criticism from many in the Haitian community after its infamous “Kill all the Haitians” dialogue.

California’s violent video game law, which was scheduled to go into affect on January 1, 2006, has been delayed due to a federal lawsuit filed by the video game industry. A hearing took place in May with a decision expected shortly.

Adam J. Keigwin

Office of

Speaker pro Tem Leland Y. Yee, Ph.D.

California State Assembly, District 12

State Capitol, Room 3173

Sacramento, CA

(916) 319-2012

(916) 319-2112 – fax Matty the dude wrote: Not racist at all. and filled an entire paragraph explaining how confused the rest of us are.

Next he wrote: Maybe a good tangential thread would be for people to give their definitions of racism...

Matty, you've just exhibited two very common tools we whites use to discount the voices of POC. First you tried to save them from their ignorance (the missionary technique). Then you tried to get them to teach you what racism is (demanding people of color solve our racism problem for us).

As a white person who has committed just these kinds of destructive activities, let me point you to the Detours document, for a good explanation. Cudos to mynappyheaded ass who posted the link during the discussion about nio's post. wow,

thanks for the info hook-up, Larry D. i was very interested in learning that the ad campaign was pulled. oh, and i had no idea about those games and the explicit racistm connotations.

unbelievable! Zakira-

Some is a nice word, although to what you are referring I believe the correct word would be few, but it’s not like we have to be PC for white people.

And to the windmill tillers the “disembodied head” is a result of the sun shining directly on the billboard saturating it and leaving the dark colors faded.

They pulled it? Phew! I guess the road to unity is to totally segregate the races in the media or only have white and black people be presented as absolutely equal in personality and power dynamics and doing the exact same thing in every situation. Conformity and segregation will save us all? and then there's the fact that the white woman is wearing way less and being way more sexual (at this point I'm not sure which is the common stereotype, but it certainly implies a preference)...

{me having not read any of the comments haha} "Whites who whine about the "racism crutch" and other moronic right-wing memes must always be questioned: What have you done today to eliminate the system of white privilege?

Please post a list of things I should do, personally, to "eliminate the system of white privilege". I'll then attempt to do them. Keep in mind that I'm self-employed and work from home, so I don't have any influence in the working world. However, if there's something I can do in my house, or while out grocery shopping, or online, I'll happily oblige. I just honestly don't know firm examples of what you're asking me for.

I'm not sure if this was sarcastic or honest, but I'd like to reply.

There are a lot of things that everyone, including whites, and including white men, can do. The most important thing is to TALK ABOUT IT. Voice your opinions. Stand up for others when you see a victim. Make comments about tv commercials in front of your friends. Snap at your grandparents when they spout racist bs.

The second step might be research. Take some time on the internet, if you're really interested. Look for groups like this website that discuss the issues. Ignore the morons. Discuss. Obviously, you've taken that step.

Join groups. Meet people. Start your own group, go to public meetings, vote in elections, voice your opinion, you can even start a blog or a zine if you're really that passionate.

Most people think that they have absolutely no power. But just taking the first step and talking about it helps spread awareness.

Good luck all! This add is completely offensive to me, not just as a black woman, but as a white woman aswell. Being bi-racial is already hard enough, but to see a sign like this even being used is like a stab to the heart. It isn't used as a contrast between the 'seasons' of playstation, it's being used as a shot to black woman every where. This suggests to me that we appear to be gentle, but really we're animals and will dominate whenever needed. That could be a good thing and a very BAD thing. I took this as a huge insult to me and all 'colored' people in the world.

Also to that 'I just get tired of the racism crutch. Racial equality is acheived when race is ignored, not flaunted.' comment, I only have one thing to say. It isnt a crutch, we dont use it as such, it is something that everyone needs to be aware of. We cant ignore race when it is slapped in our faces every day, and why not flaunt our race? We should be PROUD to be of african descent, not ashamed. That ad shouldn't give us the feeling that we are being attacked, but it is. This ad makes me ill. I say we all barf in bags and send them to Sony. This truly is disgusting and I must say I wish I was thinking about buying a playstation before so that I could now say I refuse to do so. I wasn't and now I'm definitely not.
Why as well is this nonsense somehow acceptable? There is at Sony, I'm sure, an entire marketing department, studio, photographers, editors, PR specialists and consultants working on these campaigns. Can all of them collaboratively be okay with putting out something like this? To portray racist assumptions of power as acceptable and to suggest women should spend their time dominating each other instead of working together to further ourselves in the patriarchy we live in? This ad is insulting to women, blacks, artists and intelligent people everywhere. Gross. best site
http://online casino.org.in/ did i hurt your feelings? I recently wrote a post on my blog about your recent Allied Media post (the white woman in the audience who wanted to know what black women are doing to include white women in the movement) and had a lot of responses from people saying the exact thing--that the need for WOC space is exclusionary, that we all need to "work together" and not separate ourselves from each other, etc etc. As much as I patiently tried to explain that this is not the case some people just never got it.

Nubian, some people are never going to get it. They are always going to go with their feelings and stay there. It's a shame that Nio targeted you with her feelings. And I do agree with you -- people of color need their own spaces. It's not exclusionary, it's a necessary (and good!) component of eliminating racism.

I just want to clarify one thing. You call Nio one of the white upper-middle class feminists, yet just above the space that you quote for this post, she clearly states she is not college-educated, and implies she is or has been poor.

Is there a chance that you each have been separately targeted and treated poorly in the feminist movement in your own ways, and that it might make more sense for you two to talk to each other about your hurts? Yes you still need your space, and yes she started it with her post, and no her own hurts shouldn't excuse what she wrote. But when I read stuff like this, I can't help but think, why are we women still doing this to each other? Nubian - including that post in the carnival was not intended to upset / piss you off but give a rounded picture of what's going on at the moment in the femosphere. What I wanted out of this carnival was to say right, this is what's been happening since the last carnival, rather than impose my own slant as it were. So I included the post to give both sides. My personal opinions were largely kept seperate from the carnival I think.
I'll be honest, I feel bad that it's upset you. I had wanted to include the original post and make comment about it and had emailed for your permission, but obviously you want to keep out of it. And for what it's worth, I do get why. But yes, the intention wasn't to upset you, it was just to give an objective look at what people have been saying these past few weeks. When I hear other white feminists going on about how *excluded* they feel, and how unfair it is and all, I have to wonder what their stance is on women-only space.

I mean, should we be letting men in during every single event or discussion we have, just so we aren't "excluding" them and "not hearing their voices"? Or is it that sometimes--not *all* the time, but sometimes--women NEED space apart from men to discuss things amongst ourselves and work out how WE are affected and how WE feel.

Why the hell is it so hard to conceive that women of colour might feel something similar when it comes to having space apart from white people...even white women?

Crys T You know, I was going to write something for my blog the other day about the whole fallacy of "reverse racism." But when I googled around looking for a good basic introductory resource to link for my mostly white readers, I was horrified to discover how many forums and boards and communities and blogs there are out there that are devoted exclusively to policing the internet and other media in an attempt to expose and counter "reverse racism."

And these aren't KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, or even right wing Republican type white people. They're mostly so-called liberals, and yes, even feminists, who claim to be "tired of the PC tyranny" and "unfairness to whites."

After reading some of this ignorant shit, I was too depressed and sick at my stomach to write. Dear god, what an uphill battle. I find myself alternating between losing my temper and sinking into hopeless discouragement an awful lot lately. It doesn't offend me that you have WOC-only spaces. It might be useful to have one or two activities accessible to non-WOC who would like to learn: a panel open to the public, a film, a conference summary on the web (thx). But I just don't see why people have the urge to stick their noses in other groups' workshops-in-progress.

NancyP I am really appreciating your blog, but since I notice we are so many who read you with pleasure and learn from you (partly with pain) I just haven't bothered to write how intelligent, witty and enlightening I find your writing. Well, after reading that stupid and aggressive blog you just got adressed to you, I might at least pay for my reading with a thanks-comment: THANKS FOR WRITING. I got attacked at my childrens' school a few years back because I set up a poc young people's caucus for all African heritage young people. (Granted I was white leading it but nobody else was doing this.)

I think it's important to have subgroups be able to get together and have space to vent, create, etc in anyway they want to without having to deal with/take care of/explain to/etc to other subgroups, in this case the group in oppressor position ...

I think you did right (not that you need me to approve :-)) to tell that white woman at the conference what you did. and like Kactus says it's just hard for many white folks to get it.

Using the female only analogy might help some people to understand the need. But one thing that really helped me get it is by listening to black panels share what's great about being black, what's hard about being black and what they never again want to hear said by white people ever again ... after listening to this for a few years many things began to click in this thick noggin ...

(That in addition to co-counseling sessions on being white--after listening to them.)

Like, oh, maybe that's why they want to have a group without me in it sometimes!!

If I was a rape survivor and wanted to process that I wouldn't want to do so in a room with rape convicts sitting there too. I'd need to be away. I don't know if that's a good example but in a way it really is ... Peace Queen,
I was laughing at Nio's post the entire time I read it. Her comments like "she (you) won’t allow me to access her knowledge and connections.(?)
Lets be for real Nio--Do you really want to? Why would you wait this long to try to access Blac(k) ademic connections until now? Weren't you apart of the feminist movement before you read Blac(k) ademics post?
It amazes me that white people feel so excluded when we Black people want to have and keep some things to ourselves. However they have robbed and excluded us from our very own things for years.
Peace
---Sanaa Apparently, no matter what, women of color's actions and activities are supposed to revolve around soothing and comforting white women. Even the ones who think they are our feminist "sisters." *pulling out hair
*beating head on desk

i just don't even know what to say right now. seriously, does this persyn think its exclusionary to have survivor-only spaces? how about wimmin-only spaces? am i being exclusionary when i ask for substance-free spaces cuz drugs are a trigger for me? AHH! when will we learn to listen?!?

and no offense, claire, but fuck giving equal time to both sides. both sides are not given equal time or weight. why do we always believe that when a womyn of color speaks, a white persyn must be given proper time to respond. sometimes we just need to shut the fuck up and listen. besides, there's no such things as objectivity in media (and yes, blogs are media). ya gotta pick sides or else you're on the side of the status quo. and the status quo hates wimmin of color. Logically, it shouldn't be hard to 'get' that POC's might want to take a break from white culture/dialogue sometimes, but apparently it is. I think it's about (a) guilt and wanting to be absolved, and (b) thinking in individual(ist) (and also selfish) terms, i.e. "but I'm not one of those white people, I want them to recognize that." Wow. I think clare made a major mistake with the whole editorial stance on the carnival. Not imposing a slant is not a neutral choice in a racist enviroment.

i wonder if it might be good to write (maybe just a one time carnival style thing) about separatisms and why spaces of protection and idenity are necessary and how we envision them. i'll put a call out for entries soon... Seems to me Clare was doing her best and if she made a mistake, so be it. Sly Civilian, I think that's an awesome idea. I do think more attention needs to be on this topic and on better supporting it in the blogosphere. Thank you for taking the time to address my post. I prefer the notion that we have more in common as women but on a real level I know that is rarely true. The differences between our experiences are often radical but I do not think white feminists have experienced that for themselves.

I got to experience my own privelege rather dramatically when I transformed from scummy punk girl to upright, clean citizen. I am automatically assumed to be trustworthy and the right sort of person almost everywhere I go. I have witnessed women of color deal with situations that I have simply never had to manage.I do not think it is something that can be transcended because it is determined by how other people treat you.

I think because their experiences are limited white feminists just don't understand, want to understand and hate it when you interfere with their learning process by excluding them. Demonstrating a lack of regard for other women's wishes and a very self-centered approach to racial issues. I am amazed at the degree to which people feel threatened by other people doing their thing. If someone like Nio wants to encourage dialogue between black feminists and white feminists, why doesn't she set up a group to try to do that? Why feel that she has to hijack another group or complain about feeling excluded? I feel that way when you get men complaining in the 'what about us' vein on feminist blogs. Damn well take some action yourself and don't expect other people with other concerns to change their world to suit you!
If more people listened and tried to understand, rather than waiting to jump in with their own personal concerns, the world would be a much better place...(I do this myself, but hopefully not in other people's space). Lets be for real Nio--Do you really want to? Why would you wait this long to try to access Blac(k) ademic connections until now? Weren't you apart of the feminist movement before you read Blac(k) ademics post?

I don't want to speak for Nio, but as a frequent reader of her blog, I've seen her complain for months/years that she can't find a feminist group which tackles issues of concern to her. Nio expresses concern with issues of poverty and class, issues which have affected her personally, and she's not interested in "mini-skirts" and "giving head". She's complained about those things repeatedly, and I'm sure she felt that in Blac(k) ademic's posts, she'd finally found somewhat of a kindred feminist spirit. Sure, she could start a "white's only" group to discuss poverty and class issues, and she'd be the only member in her community. What fun for her :p

I think it would be helpful if Nubian posted her gross income from her most recent tax return, so I could decide how qualified she is to speak on the issue of poverty. Pips, I've been trying to talk to Nio about this, but apparently she's one of those "if you're a woman, you must identify as Only Woman and nothing at all else, or else you're being divisive."

And Vegankid, yep indeed, she claims that she would expect rape survivors to discuss their issues in front of men who have also been raped....claims that by doing so "they can all learn from each other." No concept at all that maybe these women might feel, y'know, *unsafe* discussing such things in the presence of men.

And despite the fact that I've pointed out to her that WOC-only space is in no way the same as WOC-forever-and-ever-isolating-themselves-from-any-contact-with-white-feminists (though at this stage in the game, I can clearly see how some WOC might want that), she doesn't get it. Any little bit of minority(of whatever sort)-only space is exactly the same as whites being racist, dontchaknow. No concept of how the power differential totally changes the context.

I feel like banging my head against the wall till it splits.

Crys T I feel like banging my head against the wall till it splits.


I'd pay good money to see that. anonymous,

are you that serious about nubian posting her creds, particularly her tax return, when you won't even put your name up?

lol

at any rate, nubian, i want to rewind kamikaze's comment and play it back, because it's the truth...

if that was really nio posting up there, too, nuff respect for taking a listen... from the sounds of it (haven't had a chance to check out your blog yet), you address some serious issues that don't get treatment from the "mainstream" feminist movement...

there's a strong kind of building that can happen here, as nio kind of pointed out with the reinventing the wheel thing...

but why can't us white people be open to people of color instead of demanding everything the other way around?

we all need each other, but we all need to respect each other first...

prayers up to mutual respect, comm-unity, and forward motion... Hi there,

This is just an idle thought that is a bit of a tangent, but in my years as an activist type person, I have never--and I mean NEVER--noticed a person of color to be rude/mean/exclusionary to a specific white person who was not being obnoxious but instead doing his/her best to be anti-racist. I just don't notice POC activist being rude and mean to specific white people just because they're white.

There's a WORLD of difference between saying "white people often do this obnoxious racist thing and it makes me crazy with rage" and being rude to a specific person in a specific situation. (Although there are certainly people and situations that warrant rudeness--I'm not anti-rudeness by any means)

A lot of white people write as though POC activists were walking up to well-meaning white anti-racist activists and being all "You--you white person--get out! I hate you!" when in my experience (admittedly, it's only one person talking here) I have been amazed by the general openness and friendliness of POC activists when talking to individual white folks, given how annoying white folks can be about race. (I suppose I should add that I am white) In general, I've noticed POC activists to tolerate a lot of stupidity, ignorance, silly questions, etc from white activists, provided that the white people in question were polite and sincere.

A lot of white folks get really into the persecuation fantasy thing: "Oh, I TRIED to work with those people, but they JUST WOULDN'T LET ME", [sob].

Alternatively (and this is where I sometimes end up) anxious white folks get into the "I'll say the wrong thing, and they probably already hate me, and what if I'm really a terrible person underneath and it just shows through, and then they'll say I'm racist and I just made a MISTAKE" [wail, wail]...for me this has been (of course never now because I am perfect now...) an excuse to avoid situations that might make me uncomfortable ("well, I don't need to do X because I will just make them uncomfortable with my ignorance") and also a way of not taking responsibility for my problems ("I just can't HELP it if I say something dumb, because I MEAN well")

I think a lot of white people do not get that "a world where not everything is about white people" is not the same as "POC treating white people just as badly as white people often treat them". The exclusion is about classism, I think that's pretty clearly what the poster is feeling, especially as she qualifies herself from the get-go as not being college educated, etc.

When I was an activist, it was middle class identified women shutting down other white women who were the new 'other' -- poor white folks.

Poor whites are different culturally and no one wants to be one. Period.
So one stands up in a group and says, "Ok, all the poor folks over here."

Poor black people can hang with black people and feel a common thread, likewise with any other ethnic or cultural group that is recognized by everyone.

Middle class whites can identify with the 'movements' that most often they've learned and studied in college - environmentalism, feminism, etc. Uneducated poor white women are outpaced and their concerns left in the dust.

So where's the po' white folk?

Hanging with the middle class J. Crew wearers, being ignored and feeling like a complete ass, because you know, that's what they want you to know you are.

I know, I've been there and wouldn't go there again for anything in the world.

Poor white people also buy into the class denial bullshit and thus continuously couch their feelings of exclusion across the board, looking for an identity in a world where they are invisible. The immediate response is to feel slighted, marginalized and worse, discarded.

Ironically, these people end up feeling jealous and angry at the people who demonstrate the most group unity and acceptance -- since that is indeed what they yearn for more than anything. And please do not construe my last comments as a trivialization of the very real issue of white people who don't understand the importance of space for people of color only.

White folks tie much of their legitimacy as persons to class. Thus, any attempts to look at or deconstruct class issues usually meets some feirce resistance from those who hold have the most to lose.

Personally, I have oft wondered how if a white middle class person cannot see and eschew their class priviledge, then how on earth can they even begin to understand any other social disparities since almost all social inequality comes down to a construct of power? Are we talking physical space or blog space? Because it blows my mind when people think bloggers "OWE" them . . . well, anything, but especially space on someone else's personal blog. I added my comments to Nio's blog, trying, like Crys T, to explain the value in having space with my peeps.

>Poor whites are different culturally and no one wants to be one. Period.>

You know, there's a local activist in the Welfare Rights Organization in the Twin Cities who does a pretty good rap on this issue. When you consider the kind of exploitation and disrespect that is involved in getting rich under capitalism, being poor looks pretty damn good. The "white" feminist syndrome is usually referred to as "Miss Ann" After reading some of the dialogue, I began to reflect on why I really enjoyed Harry Belafonte and John Travolta's much despised movie "White Man's Burden". Perhaps it is time for a remake "White Woman's Burden". I think it could be a BLOCKBUSTER. It could show all of the BS that white priveledge puts on black women causing us to have stroke, diabetes, miscarriages, fibroids and down and out work-related stress/drama!! I think we could have a star-studded cast of beautiful black actresses portray this for the world to witness a "day in our life"! Wish I was a screenwriter or producer. What do you think? This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author. >I would’ve like to have gone to the conference blac(k) academic attended. But I can see by her post that I would have been vilified for caring...

attempts at mindreading kind of don't tend to help much either.

do people ever think to like *ask* a person before making assumptions about what she would or wouldn't do or say? Ugh, Nio is completely irrational, it's impossible to reason with her. I hope she's a parody, because if she actually believed herself, it would be scary. She's not even a feminist, either, she's also going on about how feminists always have to talk about rape and they'd be sexist and exclusionary if they held female only sessions for rape survivors, it's typical entitled bs. Shorter Nio: I am good and pure and virtuous and perfect, anyone who isn't me is stupid and evil and racist and sexist and filled with hate. I am full of love and respect and I want to bring people together, which I show by declaring everyone a racist sexist and refusing to listen to anyone except to call them names because I hate name calling and I hate hate and demanding that the way to truth is by everyone doing exactly what I tell them to do because I know what's best for everyone way more than they themselves do, they're too full of hate. Why do you think I want to take over just because I'm going to tell you what to do and you'd better do it because I am The Truth, you hater! Good god, some folks need to join the 21st century already. It seemed like in the 90's there was a positive trend with the affinity group thing: where people formed safe spaces for themselves and then worked with other groups on shared goals. So a group of white women and a group of WOC might work together on a campaign while maintaining separate group identities. This was really great because nobody's identity was erased and since everything was done by some sort of coalition, POC were automatically included in the leadership. There was still pointless exclusion (like multiracial people or trans people being told they weren't "black enough" or "woman enough" to join), but it seemed like white men and white women were starting to be respectful of safe spaces and whatnot.

Now it's like people are only progressive as far as their own cause. The comments on mainstream lefty blogs (Atrios, the Daily Kos) are full of sexism and colorblind racism. (White) people are forgetting or unlearning the value of affinity groups and coalitions. The current political conditions in the US are extremely discouraging.

(I did not notice a comment policy or any indication that this was a WOC-only space. I'm white, so please delete this comment and accept my apologies if it's not appropriate for me to comment here.) clarification:

i didn't insist that nio was upper-middle class. what i meant is that her feminist ideas are.

also, since her blog states that she is off to law school, that changes her class status no matter what. i grew up in poverty, but my college degree and graduate degree has changed my class satus--even though i still only make less than 20,000 a year (for someone who wanted to know how much i make) I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to be able to read most of the comments, but I thought I'd point you to our little discussion on White Woman's Syndrome. Because, Exhibit A.

I mean, do I have zero sympathy for her frustration? I suppose I have a very little bit. But the whole "I can't win! I'm taking my feminism and going home!" stance she's taking is unfortunate and bigoted at best. Hahaha... I just realized I made a similar "taking my ___ and going home" comment on your earlier post about the clueless white woman and her foolish/racist skin question. People had the same attitude there, and I responded in the same sarcastic manner. White people: we're such one trick ponies.

By the way, I thought you might find this amusing-- apparently a woman on Livejournal referenced my "stupid white people" comment in that post as evidence of "carefully cultivated [anti-white] hostility" among POC.

Yeah, the same comment in which I made it pretty clear I was white.

Apparently folk are not so much colorblind as blind.

Carefully cultivated hostility, indeed. Dear Anonymous 5:08:01,
You said:
don't want to speak for Nio, but as a frequent reader of her blog, I've seen her complain for months/years that she can't find a feminist group which tackles issues of concern to her. Nio expresses concern with issues of poverty and class, issues which have affected her personally, and she's not interested in "mini-skirts" and "giving head". She's complained about those things repeatedly, and I'm sure she felt that in Blac(k) ademic's posts, she'd finally found somewhat of a kindred feminist spirit. Sure, she could start a "white's only" group to discuss poverty and class issues, and she'd be the only member in her community. What fun for her :p


Why would the group have to comprise "whites only"? Just because people of color want their own safe-spaces doesn't mean that they don't interact with white people and participate in the movements.

It will be impossible for white people and people of color to come together if people of color have to compartmentalize parts of their identity in order to do the work. Which means, poor white people suffer from a different kind of poverty than poor people of color do. The same way that the causes for Asian poverty is different from black poverty, and the same with latino poverty. But, all of these groups can come together and talk about these issues outside of their communities if they choose.

It is the ridiculousness of people in this culture to jump to extreme polarities of what they means. She did not find a kindred spirit in Nubian, because Nubian's spirit is comprised of more than simply class issues and poverty. They are comprised of race, gender, sexuality, class, education and if you can't take all the histories and identities that we come with, then you shouldn't be privvy to any part of us.

Also, she insulted the feminisms and womanisms of women/people of color which have done a hell of a lot more in our communities regardless of class than simply talking about race and class have.

Kate said:
why are we women still doing this to each other?

Because some women want to deny that we do not all live the same reality as they do, and they want to pretend and actively ignore that our realities are different than theirs.

It is because some women are hoping for sisterhood instead of a reality of what actually is, a very fractured and dysfunctional family at best, with one sister being more favored but thinking that she is the least.

I think it's great that Nubian took her to task for for what she said. I am really tired of this idea that you can say whatever ridiculousness you want as long it is said tactfully and in the name of solidarity and civility. This idea that ignorance can just go unchecked. Or if you must check the ignorance it has to be in the nicest words possible.

It's not us as sisters against the white man, and it never will be as long as people choose to actively ignore the reality and privilege of white people regardless of class, gender, and able-bodiedness.

Poor black people can hang with black people and feel a common thread, likewise with any other ethnic or cultural group that is recognized by everyone.

Oh really? Thanks for informing me because you know in all actuality I have seen it play out differently, and there have been many books written about black people and class (especially the middle class) that don't really back up your statement... or if it does back it up, it is specifically related to the fact that a majority that comprises middle class growth is made up of blacks who were once poor. Which means that those who have been living in that existence longer may have the same hangups as you describe in whites.

Good work Nubian. Maybe if non-POC's realized that we don't always talk about them when they're not in the room, we'd be able to keep our safe spaces safe.

Then again, maybe not. :)

Thanks for speaking up for WOC. You're taking so much heat that you don't deserve just for exercising your right to speak your mind.

Didi I am a white feminist and Nio does not speak for me. I understand that racism and sexism work together - not in isolation - and that there is little I can contribute to exploring that connection and analyzing the effects beyond being a good ally and supporting the efforts of women of color to network, strategize and support each other.

Personally, I believe the ideal feminist gathering would have the first day(s) set aside for caucuses such as women of color caucuses, gender identity caucuses, and, yes, a white caucus. The white caucus should take time to explore and discuss white privilege, dismantling racism and how to be an anti-racist ally. The other caucuses should be empowered to not only explore those concerns that are specific to them, but also to set guidelines and propose topics for wider discussion in the following days. That way the feminist gathering would begin to bridge some of these divides that are natural results of ignorance and the acquired racism and homophobia that are part of growing up in a racist patriarchy.

Of course, women of color need and have an absolute right to hold gatherings of their own -- completely devoid of having to accomadate white privilege and ignorance. I just think the ideal would be to have women of color gatherings AND all-feminist gatherings that strive to be safe and supportive places for women of color and NO all-feminist gatherings that ignore the fact that women of color experience gender oppression differently than white women and sometimes seek different strategies and responses to combatting sexism, such as the revolutionary organizing being down by CARA in Seattle http://www.cara-seattle.org that is clearly reflective of the differential experience of women of color who not only experience sexual violence, but also the racist violence of the criminal justice system.

So, although I know you know that not all white women think like Nio, I just want to remind you anyway since there are an embarrassingly large number who clearly do judging from the awful comments of support for her on her site. >Maybe if non-POC's realized that we don't always talk about them when they're not in the room, we'd be able to keep our safe spaces safe...

i think there's probably something to that.

part of all this is the old "fuck, i haven't been invited to the party, they hate me, they're probably all laughing at me right now..." I LOVE YOU NUBIAN! STAY STRONG AND DON'T LET THEM SILENCE YOU. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT. AS THE SAYING GOES 'BLACK DON'T CRACK!' (AND WE GOT YOUR BLACK BACK, SISTAH, SO COME ON BACK...WHEN YOU'RE FEELIN' IT!!

MaxJulian Can I include this post in the Erase Racism carnival?

--IP Any European-American woman who doesn't understand that there are times for her to butt the fuck out is a woman whose presence is the prime motivator for having her absent. No woman of color owes such a person any explanation. When she gets it, she won't push any more. And then, paradoxically enough, she might finally find spaces with women of color that could include her. But not until.

Nubian, I'm sorry this creep-shit stuff happened to you, but what doesn't kill you makes you strong. Gramsci wrote: "The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born." Yet. But it will be. And all of us with it, hopefully.

Incidentally, I'm European-American. I try very hard not to be any more "White" than I can help. And I have zero-tolerance for White folks that posture through their lives trying to perpetuate their unrealistic attitudes about themselves and their position in society. They keep us stuck on so many levels and they make such a terrible lot of noise. So now that your blog has forced you to stop self segregating your views from other black activists and other feminists you have become faced with the publics real opinion, public discourse removes the safety net of ivory tower activist philosophy, No longer are you able to keep your arguments to a select group they now reach the public at large.

I have spent very little time on your site but it doesn't take long for racism against whites to come up in the comments.

Being angry with white people at large or feminists being angry at men at large is completely ineffectual not to mention a complete hypocritical reversal of ignorance.

You have to focus on the people that are actually racist and do cause problems. Inventing issues out of thin air might be a great way to beef up the blog but it causes problems and harms your credibility.

ON the surface in our culture racism against whites has become an acceptable thing to do. Don't believe me? Well when we have a white man making millions of off humiliating mocking and denigrating black people on network tv like David Chappell or Eddie griffin does to whites then I guess we can be equal again.

The youth today have grown up with a new prejudice a prejudice ironically brought about by an attempt at unity.

The civil rights feminist and politically correct movements have a hard time admitting any victory. We casually make fun of white people for being white or men for being men, but we are not allowed to do the same to any other group because we have all learned that it is harmful, but to people of color and women only?

You have to realize that there is a large % of white people in this world with the same dislikes and the same feelings about our government that you have, I am one of them but when I read your site or feministings, it is clear from the posts and the comments that because of my skin color and the flesh between my legs you distrust or hate me.
Therefore I can’t help you, the power of the people has only served to be divided by modern feminism and modern black activism.

Like the more duke crap post, at feministing. We have three accused men and a multicultural team supporting them, but what happened is samhita labeled the men as rapists labeled them racist sexist and labeled the white members of the team racist while the women of color on the team were excluded in her scorn. She used the anger we all feel about rape to incite hatred against whites. This deserves an outcry from everyone and certainly white people but the white people myself included were merely labeled racists by you and by feministing for that out cry. Complete double standards and complete hypocrisy. Exposing two movements that are a complete waste of time if unity is the goal.

United we stand divided by feminists and black activists we are.

HUJO Comments like Hujo's are why I, for one, am no longer excited about blogging. Or, perhaps, I think I prefer to blog without a comments section. People can read and take away what they might, but the acerbic, condescending tone people adopt in comments sections is just unacceptable to me. It reminds of when I was young and tried to convince my brother's racist skinhead friends of the error of their ways. It was good work, if ineffective, but each of us has only a finite amount of energy, and I have to invest mine in the directions that are wisest for me. Peace to you, whatever you decide, Nubian. Because being silent and complacent is a good thing?

Aint this public for a reason?

I am only offering some advise.
If you have a political site and you simply cant handle people that have conflicting or opposing outlooks to your politics and points of view with out merely resorting to censorship, banning or labels of racism and insults directed at the dissenters person and not the argument, then perhaps a “safe space” ( sheltering yourself among like minded individuals that agree and support you while ignoring what the public really thinks) is the best idea after all.

A shame as there is a point to all this, I thought, a goal?

By listing to dissent you might find a way to make your voice more universal and effective. Criticizing someone’s politics does not necessarily mean you want to destroy those politics, if it weren’t for critics nothing would ever be improved.

If it sounds hokey so be it, attack my argument not me, using real examples, not your brother racist skin head friends that have nothing to do with anything. Sure, dialogue can be powerful and meaningful, but when parties don't treat each other with respect, I don't see it as particularly useful to me anymore. When I was young I would argue with everyone--racists, sexists, homophobes--staying up all night trying to change their mind. And then one day I realized that mainly I was making myself tired and even hurting myself by rendering myself vulnerable to people who treated me badly. We all negotiate our boundaries and mine no longer require me to do that on my free time. The energy it drained took away from my research, writing, and the rest of my life. Some people thrive on that sort of atmosphere, but I don't. In the end, we all decide where we do the most good, at least in my opinion. sevres--

that's my main issue: there is little respect for other people's opinions. i just get tired of not getting the respect i deserve, since, i really feel that i offer it to others. Referring to people who are "actually racist" as if that doesn't include commenters who pretend to want a real dialogue, but clearly don't, marks you as one of them, Hujo. As long as the "White" power structure is still in control of everything, there is no such thing as racism against "White" folks. Prejudice, maybe. Even rage, sure. But racism? Hardly. Racism is a form of oppression and people of color don't yet have the power even to define their own lives, let alone anyone else's.

And by the way, you aren't distrusted because of your skin color or your dick (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "the flesh between [your] legs--though how would we know that and why would we care?). You're distrusted because of what you write. There can't be unity where there's no understanding and you're not demonstrating any interest in understanding. You appear to be just interested in arguing, which makes your "advice" less than helpful.

I'm not attacking and I'm certainly not trying to convince you. It makes me no never mind what you think. But I wish you'd give Nubian a break. You're making yourself look bad. In print. On the internet. Have you considered that? Hmm. Probably not. He's too busy having a pity party to notice that there are other people with opinions in the room. That and being the wise one(which apparently came with his skin color and that flesh between his legs) imparting wisdom to those he considers more ignorant on these issues than himself.

He doesn't like the way this space is defined and the fact that he wasn't given the right as a White man to shape its purpose. This makes him feel most uncomfortable here and it's chafing because he's unaccustomed to not being in the role of defining other people's experiences, realities and spaces for them. If he can't define the space and its rules, by his definition, it "excludes" him.

So he resorts to accusations of censorship and yes, racism to denounce it, all the while decrying that it is counterproductive to this goal of his that all human kind is supposed to share. Can't we all get along, after you take my advice and do what I say? This space will be so much better with a White man's touch.

Yeah, this ilk makes you wonder why you blog or allow people to comment on your postings, but they are always going to be out there zeroing in on blogs like these and others with their built in radar, wanting to shape them to fit their realities. I've struggled with this issue myself for months and being told by well-meaning community leaders that it's my blog that's the problem not those who dump on it. But it's the visitors and their posting choices that are the problem.

This is an excellent blog, in my opinion. It would be a shame to not see it anymore. No it is just that you label anyone that has a different opinion than nubian or yourselfs a racist.

Racist is not a word that should be used in place of troll.

Just saying noone is flawless and i feel the site is being critisized for these valid reasons.

Dont agree with black academic you are RACIST? Or is it just white people are all racists? Either way I can see why you have disenters.

Oh wait i guess this is just me being racist and you all being absolutly flawless perfect people. Riiiiight. You feel that black people can never be racist, or that people should give you special treatment and respect your every word simply because you are a black woman?
If so I think sheltering your site is the way to go.
As we see a white man gives his two cents and you feel he is trying to take over!!!! LOL
Well here is a Bonus you chased one more "white therefore racist" away from your racist superiour site. Hujo, I didn't label you a racist for having a differing opinion. I wrote (as a European-American with a clue) that I think racism equals prejudice plus power and since "White" folks have a stranglehold on the power, they're the only ones who can be racist.

What I did say about you, however, is that you are one of those commenters who pretends to want a discussion, but really doesn't. Your "two cents" is actually rolls and rolls of coins put in a sock and used to beat someone up with it--while smirking yet. Makes your attitude incredibly apparent.

Thus, you write that you're going away, but my guess is that you won't really. Because you're getting a lot of attention. Makes you feel powerful, I imagine, and many White men are really worrying about losing their power these days.

You still have it, I assure you, for the time being. But you should enjoy it while you can because your lack of willingness to grasp the reality of what the heavy-handedness of the White male power structure has perpetrated against women in general and women (and men) of color in particular is going to sink our collective ship if we let it. And you will fight to the death, it would appear, to have it sink rather than not be in the position of captain.

I, for one, would rather survive than be on top. If you don't feel that way, then what could we possibly have to discuss? I'm sure you wouldn't expect the rest of the human race to just bow quietly to White men just because they say so, would you? Really? “Hujo, I didn't label you a racist for having a differing opinion. I wrote (as a European-American with a clue) that I think racism equals prejudice plus power and since "White" folks have a stranglehold on the power, they're the only ones who can be racist.”

So only the 2% of people with the power to greatly effect society are racist? Surely you can’t be implying that every elite member of society is racist or even white that would be ridiculous. So by your “logic” then the amount of racists in America would be 1% or less of only white men? Wow and you have a clue? Now let me ask you why it is that white ruled nations have the most multiculturalism, immigration, higher standards of living, women’s equality and religious tolerance? As you say only people with power can be racist and only whites have power so you must acknowledge that some or even most of the white folks in power have worked toward building a tolerant society these last 50 years and longer, as MUCH good social change has happened even with all those “racist” whites in power.

I would like to ask you what you think of Cynthia McKinney, a black women with power that while disobeying security procedures was rightfully stopped by a white cop (whose job was stopping people) , then she proceeds to physically assault him then SHE claims to be the victim of racism and sexism? What do you call that? I call it an act of racism, prejudice against a white men by a black woman in power. I also call it a glaring example of societies new double standards. (White male politico punching black female cop is a dead career/ Cynthia is a hero) Look I understand that in the ivory towers of academia cute little expressions like “Only those with power can be racist” can fly with enough BS to back it up, in the real world it’s just silly.

”What I did say about you, however, is that you are one of those commenters who pretends to want a discussion, but really doesn't. Your "two cents" is actually rolls and rolls of coins put in a sock and used to beat someone up with it--while smirking yet. Makes your attitude incredibly apparent.”

Oh you mean kinda like you are doing in this post here and especially in the next paragraph.(I am back because you argued my post)

”Thus, you write that you're going away, but my guess is that you won't really. Because you're getting a lot of attention. Makes you feel powerful, I imagine, and many White men are really worrying about losing their power these days.”

Ouch my brain hurts from all the hypocrisy, First um why should white men be worried about losing power if as you say they are the only ones with it…odd and FTR I have no white guilt or insecurities so you can stop with insults that expose your predictable ethnocentric prejudgments. I thought I was not here to discuss but to be a “insecure white racist” but now your psychic abilities are telling you I want a discussion but only to feed my giant white male ego? Hypocritical and racist of you.

”You still have it, I assure you, for the time being. But you should enjoy it while you can because your lack of willingness to grasp the reality of what the heavy-handedness of the White male power structure has perpetrated against women in general and women (and men) of color in particular is going to sink our collective ship if we let it. And you will fight to the death, it would appear, to have it sink rather than not be in the position of captain.”

....Yeah.. see I want to fight but all the feminists and black activists keep talking shit about straight white men like me, they say it is only those in power they speak negatively of when pressed, but they get down on “whites” in general, casually, till someone calls them on it, in my experience.

So believe me not, but I am fighting for exactly what you are talking about, thought lately I have been deciding sites like these are simply a waste of time due to the whole being blind to the obtrusive hypocrisy and double standards thing as mentioned above.

“I, for one, would rather survive than be on top. If you don't feel that way, then what could we possibly have to discuss? I'm sure you wouldn't expect the rest of the human race to just bow quietly to White men just because they say so, would you? Really?”

What the hell are you talking about? Very powerful and moving but do you mind giving examples or something of the sort to anchor your argument to reality????

....like I was saying white guys have flaws like everyone else but corruption, racism, rape, slavery, war, they are universal to the HUMAN condition not exclusive to the white race. I am white I have no power I have arguably less privilege than a white woman my own age, the thing you speak of; “power” it is not needed for a person to be racist/ethnocentric/prejudice “power” applies to such a minority of white men it is simply racist and most certainly exclusive and segregating to speak of these issues as “a white problem” it is an elite problem and it is a global one, it is not whitey or men, it is human corruption, like I said unity is what will solve that and if feminists and black activists continue to be intolerant of whites or men then they can only be part of the problem.

Simply equating the dissenters to "insecure racist white men" just makes the black and feminist movements look even more superior minded and out of touch with reality…if that was possible. Told you you wouldn't leave. :-D HAR HAR

If you were speaking of the current global climate, I mean you would have to be blind not to see that the UK US Israeli and Saudi Arabian elite are those benefiting. An elite % of global society made up of men and women. They are all of them every race and gender stealing from every race and gender under their CLASS so nooo I don’t think your “leaking ship/white man captain” analogy makes sense or that common white folk are immune to the oppression from this elite...if thats what you meant.

As you see I am open to discussion what do you want? You've got me thinking...
http://redstapler23.blogspot.com/2006/07/that-men-at-blogher-thing-again.html Sure, dialogue can be powerful and meaningful, but when parties don't treat each other with respect, I don't see it as particularly useful to me anymore. When I was young I would argue with everyone--racists, sexists, homophobes--staying up all night trying to change their mind. And then one day I realized that mainly I was making myself tired and even hurting myself by rendering myself vulnerable to people who treated me badly. We all negotiate our boundaries and mine no longer require me to do that on my free time. The energy it drained took away from my research, writing, and the rest of my life. Some people thrive on that sort of atmosphere, but I don't. In the end, we all decide where we do the most good, at least in my opinion.

excellent post and a very hard lesson to learn. Just figured it out myself and it is a life changing lesson to learn. respect has to be at the foundation of all conversations, or they aren't conversations anymore, they are attacks. just wished i'd learned this along time ago. Absolutely agreed brownfemipower. So well stated. I came around these parts to see what Kortney was doing these days. Ironically, I see her "frustration" writing, but didn't really care enough to check what folk had to say.

I assume if it hurt, then it was meant to be hurtful. But, I think you have to remember what you're dealing with. Lots of these people who would maim and disrespect you - God forgive me are writing from a trailor. Now some of my best friends, people I've loved very much have lived in trailors so I hesitate to use that quip. But, I think you get my drift.

The reason you're drawing such venom is because you are indeed unbelievably powerful. You write from down deep, and their position is Black women aren't allowed to do that. You speak about a relationship to the past - which irks them because they never learned the history. Their schools have computers in every corner of the room Kortney, but there's no authentic history there. What you hear emanating from particularly angry White males is also their struggling with not being able to rape us to shut us up.

Many of them are angry for not having the ability to have their way with us as their whorefathers did. So my sistah' hold your head up nice and high so you can slide easily into that comfortable slot intended just for you. One thing you might do - as I have done - is set your space up so you can accept plenty of criticism which is healthy and proper, but disallow the meaness.

One gentleman who is the proprietor of one of the most proflific websites online called allowing such craziness akin to "creating a space for an absuser to slap you in the face."

As far as other bloggers writings are concerned, if what they say stings enough - take what they write and research the subject matter and the history and scale the wall so well they'll barely recognize the topic's relationship with them. That way, you can use the opportunity to develop YOU rather than respond to them.

If you take it over their heads - I swear they won't even know you were talkin' about them.

Hit me up when you can.
Much respect.

Terry
www.terryhowcott.com I'm pretty new to this blog but I find what you write and the dialogue within incredibly interesting and useful in my own education and formation of ideas.

It's a shame the inspiration from the conference you attended didn't withstand the barrage on your blog.

I'll keep checking back though just in case. Great post. Have you ever read "Separate to Integrate" by Barbara Leon, an essay published in Feminist Revolution by Redstockings (Random House 1975)? Very much along your wavelength as well as including some great 60s history. When I was here several days ago, in my haste, I spoke without delving into some of the writings at this blog - and made a couple of faulty assumptions based upon my experience with a certain group of White males who seem to travel the web for purposes of casting disdain for Black woman-speak.

Now that I'm a tad more caught up, I want to reiterate something another poster touched upon and expound a little. As was mentioned, given racism is a mass oppressive force in its authentic rendition Black people can not perpetrate it. Black people as individuals certainly have the capacity to heave prejudiced behaviors and even cultural favoritism, but not racism in its truest sense. Oppressed people - being in pain naturally want to work and congregate together and lick one another's wounds which ought not be confused with mass racism.

Black folk express resentment in various areas which ought not surprise anyone who knows her history and its ramfications. What we find invariably is that many White people are pretty much unplugged from their own deep seated prejudices (which most tend to believe they have "a handle on)" and more importantly about the racist behaviors of their cohorts.

Most not only don't know but don't want to know. To complicate that, some blame Black folk for being resentful rather than blaming their own counterparts for deliberately publishing millions of textbooks a year absent information that might have left them more race-knoweledgable at an eary age. They're angry for not knowing what we're resentful about.

So, here comes a condition of not knowing, not caring, and not knowing who has pulled the wool over their eyes to boot.

This is a real dilemma in a world that is being literally gutted in a racist assault against humankind from Harlem to Lebanon. How can we defend ourselves and teach White people too?

My point: we are entrenched in this racial debate that has a shaky foundation given the lack of caring and knowing which is barely even treatable.

So while discussing it here has its usefulness for the sake of developing good arguments and excellent blogging, I know in this important place some great ideas will be born that will address the problem on a larger scale beyond arguing with some guy named "Hujo" (as an example). I believe I read him to say he was gone. I believe his departure has left you with reason to celebrate and strategize.

Therein may be the skelton for my next writing:)

Thanks -

Terry Howcott
www.terryhowcott.com quick question Interesting post. Have you seen this one from BlackProf?

Anyway. Have a wonderful day! So, Debbie Matenopoulous (sp?) was fired because she's black too? Or, was she fired because she didn't fit in..or like Star, was an insufferable obnoxious ass? Probably just because she was black, huh? Star Jones could never seem to talk about anything other than herself, that was what bugged me about her. I wanted to hear discussion about news headlines and pop culture issues, not about how fabulous "Al" was, or how fabulous Star's wedding was, or how fabulous her new breasts were, etc. My dislike had nothing to do with race, it had to do with her being BORING, not to mention, homophobic. um, anonymous (if that is your real name), what does one firing have to do with the other? i don't get the correlation, but maybe that's because you don't have a point, just a bite that sounds nice if you don't think about it for even two seconds.

and you should probably read her post again, her point is deeper than what you're making it out to be.

p.s. it must be hard to live life with such an ironic name, anonymous. A couple things. First, I am no fan of Star, as I said on my blog. She was just way too traditional for me, and she did go on and on about herself. They all do that on the show, but Star got to the point where it was incessant.

A couple points of clarification: She was suspended from the show (for like a day) for promoting the companies that agreed to give her freebies for her wedding. She was using the show as her own personal advertisement.

Of course, she didn't get fired for losing weight, but apparently her weight loss turned people of allegedly because she talked about it all of the time, but would give up how she did it. I personally was completely annoyed with her when she decided to release her "self improvement" book and featured her weight loss prominently, but never disclosed that she had gastric bypass.

I think she making out fairly well in the media after this fiasco, and she'll go on to better things.

I think they fired her in a shady way, and it will probably hurt the show in the long run. Although, admittedly I'm not going to miss her, they should have kept her around. I was looking forward to seeing her and Rosie duke it out. I personally was completely annoyed with her when she decided to release her "self improvement" book and featured her weight loss prominently, but never disclosed that she had gastric bypass.

why does it matter if she had surgery or not to lose weight, when like i said, some women left on the show had plastic surgery and no one is up in arms about that. anonymous (if that is your real name), what does one firing have to do with the other? i don't get the correlation, but maybe that's because you don't have a point, just a bite that sounds nice if you don't think about it for even two seconds.

I think the point was, two people have been "fired" from "The View" (i.e., have not had their contracts renewed). The first person was white, the second person was black, which makes it difficult to argue that Star Jones was fired solely on the basis of race (which some people are trying to argue, although it wasn't the topic of Nubian's entry). I also think it's been pointed out that Star wasn't fired for anything to do with weight loss, but was merely fired for being a bad employee. Elisabeth Hasselbeck can be next to go, please! Nubian your missing the point. The reason it matters is because when you put out a book on self improvement that focuses on your own life and you don't disclose to people the truth about how you got to where you are then what the hell is the point.

For example you run long distances races, and let's say you released a book on emotional and phyical fitness. In the chapter on staying physically fit you say something like "I stay physically fit because it's good for my health and I exercise." You don't tell people about the details of your regime--how you run 5 miles a day and 10 while traing (or whatever it is that you do). Do you think that would endear you to the general public? Probably not.

The fact she didn't disclose her weight method (and was moderately deceptive) would not matter at all to me, except for the fact that she put it out there in a book. It doesn't mean she should be fired from the show, but it does mean that a lot of people (myself included) are going to question her honesty. (This is the same women who said on more than one occasion "I don't sweat.") I think had Star been honest she would have been treated more like Carnie Wilson, but she wasn't, and that turned many people off especially, those of us who are not thin or those of us who struggle with weight.

And you are right there definitely are other women on the show who have had cosmetic surgeries. Barbara Walters is the most glaring example, and I would be annoyed with Barbara if she put out a book on beauty and talked about her "youthful skin" without disclosing her plastic surgery.

I also question calling gastric bypass surgery "cosmetic." I know one person who had it, and she would argue that it was a medical necessity, but that's for another debate. because two people were fired doesn't mean that they were held to the same standard, c'mon that's obvious.

i've never watched the show, so i can't give specifics at all, so i'm pretty much done here, but they should make a new tv show where my grandma yells at the tv when sunday morning political shows are on.

that's entertaining and intelligent television right there! ..."clearly, there is a double standard going on in this situation. i am not a big fan of star, however, i am upset with the way that the media has positioned her as a vindictive, manipulative and angry black woman. i do appreciate the way star has handeled it, as she has shown herself as a respectable and intelligent woman. babs, rosie, abc, and the rest of the view clique, comes out of this situation looking like the bitter old women that they truely are..." Im blogger-challenged.
I meant to add to the quote from your blog that I agree 100% with your statement Nubian-
I have been thinking the same thing all week. I think our society in general takes offense when any celebrity wants to keep any part of their lives private. But I too had been wondering if everyone would be so upset about it if she were white. And I've never liked Star more than these past weeks because she really has handled the situation gracefully. open letter to dr. john mcwhorter wow. this is very intense, and true. i love your straight-forwardness and honesty. what an unbelievable racist he is--i honestly still do not believe that those words were coming out of his mouth, a mouth of a person of color, not to mention a black person. i was so shocked! i don't think i've ever heard more racist and whitewashed comments openly coming out of even a white person's mouth!

talk about internalizied oppression and inferiority! mcwhorter is definitely a book-perfect example of that to me. This a great essay and I'm glad you wrote it because he gives me hives , both for his personal work but also as a harbiinger of this new method of" intellectual" critique.

There seems to be an increasing desire to create this weird independent of everything else high fluting black middle class that gets to speak and critique black people while continually asserting a non membership AND a membership as long as it is allowed to shame people for their lives without actual relation to stats or you knwo anything close to facts.

And while I joke ( ok not so much joke as maintain gallows humor) about it hip hop seems to have come about as a direct contradiction to this assertive " black folk can't do shit except in THIS way" thought. HIp hop is a street/immigrant/poor folk/synthesis that in many ways was/ ( and for a lot of awesome artists) is independent and continues to be so.Which I think in so small way irks a lot of " proper " intellectuals both left and right.

Awesome essay Damn Nubian.

You've left me speechless. jay z promoting a thug image? jay-z, the rapper best known for his Hewlett-Packard commercials, power lunches with Bill Gates, and his collection of finely tailored business suits? He's practically the John McWhorter of rap at this point... I agree with jay smooth, Jay Z is hardly a thug. His image in his hayday as a rapper was something of a playboy or ladiesman. Snoop, on the hand is an Uncle Tom. He will do anything for a dollar no matter how demeaning. A few years ago he brought two sisters to the MTV music awards with chains around their necks(like he was walking dogs). I am so suprised that the media did not take off on that. "and i am not your dissertation advisor."

There are some folks who could really use one again, aren't there... I find it unbelievably sad when a black person opens his mouth and spews forth garbage. The eminent doctor is no doubt the product of a middle-class home, complete with hard-working parents, suburbian house with a white picket fence, and a dog. He has evidently not bothered to look beyond the surface of the black condition before making hastily-drawn conclusions.

Slavery did not happen so long ago - it is still less than half a century ago (less than 10 generations), so it is recent enough for us to see its direct effects. It's foolish and naive to remove this factor when examining the black condition. And, as you pointed out, the descendants of the slave owners (I'll extend this description as far as saying most white people) retain an air of baseless superiority, which black people are forced to deal with every single day.

As an African in England, I'm constantly aware of how different life is for black people in the Western world. I grew up secure in my identity, and I am convinced this has been the only thing that's kept me from imploding under the constant barrage of sheer nonsense I see from white people everyday. White people have an invisible cloak of priviledge, that's what the doctor has conveniently forgotten (See http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html, as written by a white person). Black people don't even have the luxury of being treated equal to white people, as shown in the increasing number of educated black people in Britain who have to settle for lower-paid, dead-end jobs when their less-educated white counterparts easily secure higher-paid, career-advancing jobs.

Fair enough, a lot of the popular black artists aren't exactly doing all they can to promote a positive black image, but why are they the ones that keep getting focused on? There's soooo many other black people who've risen to the pinnacle of their careers - we just focus on getting things done quietly rather than merely talk about grandiose things (like white people are very good at doing)

The eminent doctor should not fool himself - he may engage in back slapping and intellectual discussions in a snooty 'white-man' tone of voice, but at the end of the day, two things remain:
1. To the white people whose arses he's evidently bent on kissing, he is, and will always remain just a 'nigger'.
2. If ever he steps out of line, or errs (as most humans in powerful situations are wont to), he'd best be assured that the white people won't come to his defence. If ever he's stupid enough to be caught doing half the shit white people would be given a mere slap on the wrist for, he had better expect that house of cards he lives in to come crashing down. When the white people are talking about him, they won't make reference to all the good he's done - no sirree, all that will be remembered is that he's one of them blacks, which is why he f*cked up (as per his own admission)

I hardly use the term 'sell-out', but the doctor's just given a perfect example of when it should be used.
PS: Sorry for writing an essay on your blog - I talk too much. we do need to move beyond blaming slavery for everything

I don't know that I have ever heard anyone, read anything, or seen anything to suggest anyone has ever blamed slavery for everything. I still don't think we blame slavery enough for what it has done to all people in this country.

As always, rock on Nubian. I always enjoy a good McWhorter lashing but I think the "friend of Bill Cosby" comment was not only unnecessary but also factually incorrect. For example Dr. Cosby is for Affirmative Action and directly supports black educational institutions as well as individuals. Mr. Cosby has not to my knowledge gone on record saying that slavery was a long time ago and that racism is overwith. Cosby's message is very much similar to that of Garvey and Dr. Welsing (of Isis Papers fame): Knowing racism exists why fall into the traps volutarily.

The two men are simply not in the same category. damn, I don't even have to think anymore, I'll just forward your link! ;)

Johnny Mac is 2000s Armstrong, Alan, Shelby - he's playing a role.

I understand how the Coz pisses people off. However, I think Coz is really broken-hearted and ranting aloud. Coz talks to Blacks & doesn't care what White people hear/think. Johnny Mac is talking to Whites and only hears the sound of a cash register.

Chris, I disagree. I don't see Snoop as an Uncle Tom, he's more like Zip Coon. bill cosby said the same shit mcwhorter was saying, yeah, just maybe to a different audience. but the same thing nonetheless...

blacks can't speak proper english
we wear our pants too low
our kids are runing around without mothers cuz the mothers are out at the clubs
we have too much sex that keep making babies
mcwhorter just used bigger words... No. That is what the media would have you believe. Have you actually listen to, read or viewed an actual Cosby speech on the subject? yes. i saw, and heard the speech. See... people just don't stop, pause and ask themselves W.W.O.A.D. (What would out ancestors do?) well I said "a cosby speech" as in there are more than one, including the one he gave in Newark yesterday. I'll go out on a limb and assume that Mc"Wort"er has never stepped foot in Newark or East Orange for that matter.

Back on subject, if you have in fact heard the speech then your previous comment is a purposeful mis-statement of any of his recent speeches, since there is no transcript (and I have one) where he says "black folks can't speak proper english." There is absolutely NO documentation to back up that statement. The actual statement is:

It's standing on the corner. it can't speak English. It doesn't want to speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk. "WHy you ain't where you is, bra:" I don't know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads...You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out your mouth..Where did these people get the idea thhat they're moving ahead with on this? Well they know they're not; They're just hanging out in the same place...

Now look, I'm teling you,. It's not what they're doing to us. It's what we're not doing. 50 perdent drop out (Documented in the Journal oh Blacks in Higher Education) ..There's no English being spoken and they're walking and they're angry. oh God, they're angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don't have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A Pizza>? And then run to the poor cousins house...

It is pretty clear that Mr. Cosby is talking about black "knuckleheads"
and not "black people". And every black person reading this knows exactly the "knuckleheads" he's speaking of.

here:
http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2004/07/cosby-quotables-given-that-everyone.html

you will find pieces of Cosby's NPR appearance where he discussed this speech. Most notably the refutation of the idea that he was talking about "Black people" rather than a portion of the population that is clearly effin up.
I could go on but I don't feel like rewriting his entire 2004 speech. But what is the difference between black " knuckleheads" and black people.

The "knuckleheads" are people and while I may not like their choices I have a deep problem when someone out of hand is dissmisive of them and tries to insinuate a seperateness cause " they" don't knwo how to act right.

Except for according to Mr.Cosby one set doesn't match up to his standards of behavior.

Yes he offered some quotes about group action but that logic would extend out to McWhorter as well who has a book about it.

This great paternalistic guidance he recommends sounds like more of the same " heres where you're wrong let us fix you cause you don't know no better" condescension.

MR Cosby is right about people not listening but giving lectures to the choir still shuts people out whether the choir is in a uppercrust black college or NEwark to me is nothing but location nice letter.

promise me you won't waste any more time on this nigga, though. Blackamazon: The issue of scope. The group "black people" includes all persons classified as "black" including (unfortunately) Mr Mc"Wort"er, Clarence Thomas, Me, Malcolm X, Amy Garvey, Frantz Fanon,etc.) Knuckleheads is a group of blacks that fit into the larger group "black people". Therefore by the rules of logic, one can discuss "knuckleheads" without simultaneously talking about ALL black people.

That is the difference.

You may feel that Mr. Cosby is being "dismissive" but the facts on the ground do not support such an accusation. For example, when he was in East Orange NJ talking to a group of black people, including Crips and Bloods. He admonished the non-gang members to embrace their gang member children and to love, support and provide for them. How is that being "dismissive"? Of course if your only exposure to Dr. Cosby is through "mainstream media" then you didn't get to see or hear any of that becase it is not "sensational".

I also think it is highly dishonest to claim that only Mr. Cosby or only so called "black conservatives" think that the behavoir outlined by Dr. Cosby is somehow only thier standard of behavior. It is in fact agreed upon by most black people (highly educated or not) that dropping out of school is a bad idea. That drug selling and using is a bad idea. That teenage pregnancy is a bad idea. That Pimpin is a bad idea. That walking around with your pants so far down your ass that walking take on a whole new level of difficulty is a bad idea. That getting impregnated by numerous men and having non of them take both financial and physical responsibility is a bad idea.

I think your whole "paternalism" rant is way off base. He is telling people to do, that which parents ought to be doing. He is telling people to do that which many black people already do. He has explained that many parents are inadequately raising thier children. This is a fact known by many people. It is not paternalistic to point out when somebody is doing wrong. It is that very "don't tell me what to do" attitude that has many black people in the binds that they are in. And screaming "paternalism" doesn't do anything to help at all.

Now I'll repeat why Cosby and Mc"Wort"er is not in the same boat:

Dr. Cosby does not deny the existance of racism as Mc"wort"er does. Unlike Mr. Mc"Wort"er, Cosby has a long history and record of putting his money and time exactly where his mouth is he is not simply a mouthpiece for white people. His history of supporting black institutions as opposed to sitting in a white one directing barbs at black people, underscores Cosby's commitment to black people. The same cannot be said or shown of Mr. Mc"wort"er.

the differences are clear for those paying attention. Nubian, as always, kudos for a very passionate post.

McWhorter's new prominence in Black conservative circles always struck me as odd, given his general restraint and evenhandedness when discussing race. He's not, I think, an attack dog for the Right in the flavor of Dinesh D' Sousa or Star Parker. After reading Losing the Race, I gained the picture of a man whose generally concerned about Black advancement without a particular emotional attachment to Black people, the invisible man under Harlem bathed in soft light, who thinks about the future of the race. I find his distance refreshing, not troubling, because he's willing to overdo objectivity in order to examine Blackness in America today, the austere anthropologist with African American civilization growing in a sterile petri dish. Sometimes that helps.

Because of this Vulcan aloofness, I'm not surprised that his CNN appearance proved so upsetting. I wonder though, would McWhorter's critique really be helped by attacking the White suburban youth's blackface fetishization of hip hop, or by a remembrance of the legacy of slavery, or by an acknowledgement of the abysmal state of American public education?

Is McWhorter's problem that he attacks Black people, or that he attacks Black people exclusively? Because the critique of Bill Cosby presented by some was that his attack upon the Black economic underclass was unfounded, that for many reasons that fundamentally are not their fault, some Black people exhibit self-defeating behaviors that prevent their upward mobility. This of course, elicited a counterargument that stated that the Left was nigh-incapable of deriding the Black poor.

I can understand being upset with McWhorter; I'm wary of the concept that when Black people aren't achieving well in this country, it's someone else's fault - White supremacy, poor educational resources, job discrimination, structural economic issues, etc. Sondjata,

This is exactly what I Mean about the difference between telling and actually discussing.

It is not an issue of "logic" to make sweeping generalisations about people, it's a straw man argument. First we create an outlier or segregated in group then we define them then we admonish this created group by our definition.

I also didn't mention any black conservative group or that the behaviors were in any way " good Ideas" . I did admonish the hands off " tell folks what to do method" of adressing those issues which is used by Both Cosby and Mcwhorter.

And while MR. COsby a may have given good advice from the bully pulpit that doesn't change his methods. The fact that he told them to embrace the gang children is fine . How about engaging the comunity and asking why is it so hard for them to embrace? Asking these people ,our people, wha t is going on in their lives and why is it the way it is for them is VERY different than admonishing them regardless. I think it's far to common among black people of all political persuasions to do so regardless of their place on a political spectrum. My problem is with the method the rhetoric and the tone. IF you yourself say he is telling people to do which is what parents ought to , then yes he is behaving in a paternal instructive way that I don't agree with. And this don't tell me what to do is NOT what has black people in a bind, it is part of a much larger systematic development that niether Mcwhorter or COsby seems to wish to engage even if they have in your opinion different messages and opinions on racism and while screaming paternalism may not help, declaring yourself arbiter even in a benevolent fashion helps even less.

Finally


the differences are clear for those paying attention

I am open and enjoy debate and discussion but I Don't appreciate you making assumptions on both my level of attention to the discourse and where I get my news. I niether trust nor depend on Mainstream media, if you feel I am misinformed you may ask or even suggest but I value this topic and wish to be engaged in such a manner Blackamazon: Please do not try to change arguements midstream. you asked:

But what is the difference between black " knuckleheads" and black people.

Which I answered quite definitively. Cosby was discussing a specific group of people which nubian (and previously yourself) equated with a critique against black people. Since
knuckleheads are a subset of black people (as they are of other groups) then such an extrapolation violates the rules of logic by equating a critque of a subset as representativee of the whole.

That is the essence of "paying attention" That detail you apparrently wish were not there but actually is.

anyway

to this:
tell folks what to do method" of adressing those issues which is used by Both Cosby and Mcwhorter.

Well actually it's used by people all the time. If someone is making an ass of themselves you tell them to stop. And since Cosby is discussing children (mostly) then he is entitled to "tell them what to do" because children often don't know any better.

Of course, that's the whole problem with so called "parents" today who would rather discuss and negotiate with thier children rather than set down some rules of expected behavior.

In a larger educational sense, people are "told what to do" all the time. It is a part of the process of learning. Those with particular knowledge pass on that knowledge by "telling" those who don't know that knowledge. Part of Cosby's critique has been a breakdown of the passage of knowledge from generation to generation linked with an apparent unwillingness to learn by "knucklheads."

Of course it's your right to disagree with that sentiment, but that doesn't make it right. As I've challenged every Cosby critic: show where he is dead wrong. Haven't gotten a response yet.

Of course, that Mr Mc"Wort"er and Cosby may be using a similar technique (critique of behavior), that does not equate the two. Since Amy Garvey was highly critical of black behavior does not equate her with Mc"wort"er either. again, back to that "paying attention". The details matter.

on your "pulpit" comment:

This is what happens when you rely on second hand sources. I didn't tell you everything that Cosby said in East Orange, thus you made assumptions as to what he may or may not have said. Which of course has been a part of my point, that most people with Cosby beef are going off what they heard and what thought was said.

You are way too stuck on "paternalism" here. Dr. Cosby has been invited to the places where he was, in order to give his opinion on what shoudl be done. In other words he was invited specifically to "tell people what to do". It makes no sense to complain that he is "telling people what to do" when he was in fact invited to do just that. People that go to see Cosby go there to hear what he has to say. He does not have any control over anyones bodies or minds. He cannot determine where people live or work. He gives his opinion. Period. Therefore he simply cannot be "paternalistic" given the definition of paternalism.

Mc"wort"er and Cosby have different opinions on racism period. It's not my opinion it's fact. Mc"wort"er is on record as racism doesn't exist. Cosby makes no such statement. His statement is that regardless of white people are doing to us, we have a responsibility to.... Again, I'm simply paying attention to the details.

I'm glad you don't want to have people assume your level of discourse or where you get your news. However, your statements on what Cosby may or may not have said is indicative that you are not completely informed on Cosby's end of the conversation. Thus I would appreciate it if you would provide actual proof of the charges you make against Dr. Cosby when you make them. Thanks in advance. I'm not changing arguments midstream . I'm not even trying to argue, not before and not now. I'm gonna pull out of this because my answer to you and frankly the way you have been adressing you would be hurtful because I feel hurt by the way you are speaking and your immediate refusal to adress my problems with categorising black people into seperate parts. YOu disagree and thats fine, but the condescension and general disregard is unnecessary. I Wish you the best your choice, but your wrong and causing yourself "hurt" by having issues with
'categorising" black people as if categorization is in and of itself a bad thing. I suppose next I'll be informed there is no such thing as 'black people" since we're all humans right? Naija girl:

McWhorter's blather isnt the product of anything but the desire to make a buck. And get lots of positive reinforcement from white people who wouldnt want anything to do with him if he was wearing baggy pants. i still can't see what you mean by knucklehead blacks and the rest of us. that statement doesn't sit well with me.

but we all have our own opinions and ways of looking at things. we should all respect that. Well said and said well, Nubian.

I'm not particularly a fan of hip-hop (mostly because I grew up in the late 70s when you had REAL music..heheh ;-) ), and there are legitimate reasons for criticizing the lyrics today (mostly for their glorification of the worst of capitalism's "take what you can because you will die tomorow" and the "money = power" mentality; I'm much more offended by that than I am by the scantily clad women and the "bitches 'n 'ho's" smack; though the latter is problematic, too)...but this sounds way too much like classic right-wing elders bashing young Black people for not conforming to their narrow standards of demeanor.

I mean, do they truly believe that if all Black people would dress in three-piece suits, walk around quoting Biblical scriptures, and aspire to Horatio Alger fantasies of wealth; all racism would disappear from the planet???

As for the "thug" image supposedly promoted by rappers like Jay-Z or Snoop Dogg: I'm sure that McW is aware that those particular rappers have been mostly coopted by the entertainment establishment and have drifted far, far away from their hardcore gangsta roots....which is par for the course with most upwardly mobile "G's" these days. And he ignores the relative link between the worst forms of gangsta rap and basic right-wing policies of imperialism and capitalism. Hell, even 50 Cents has praised Bush as a role model for "thugness".

Then again, given the (White) establishment media's shilling of Black rightwingers such as McW, Ken Blackwell, J. C. Watts, Star Parker, Armstrong Williams, just to mention a few names; I guess that it just isn't enough for the Right to sell their racism to Whites alone; they also need Black thinkalikes to comfort White conservatives in their racism, too.

(And the same can hold true for White centrists and even liberals, too.)


Anthony So lemme get this straight...they gave THIS mf two HOURS?!?!! Who gets two hours on CNN? Sellout ho! I agree with Bill Cosby's statements about some low class blacks. I think anyone who grew up in "the hood" know these type of people. Black women, if you are going to lead a promiscuous lifestyle use condoms AND birth control. It is not rocket science. The easiest way to ensure a life time of poverty in this country is to have children which you can not afford(mentally or financially) . Nubian you can not make excuses for some people, they have bad habits which keep them at the bottom of the latter. Whites have their knuckleheads too, they can be seen on the Jerry Springer show any day of the week. uh, there are people of all races who live a certain lifestyle that isn't based on education or hard work. BUT that doesn't give cosy or mcwhorter the right to lambast a whole group of people, because a few of us don't fit their mold of civility. yeah they can stand on their soapboxes and rant about how we "should act." but will that get rid of racism? no. will that get black men out of jail? no.


low class blacks, as you stated, are poor. if they (mcw, cos) were poor or had experienced poverty in their lifetime, then maybe, just maybe they would have a different outlook on things. apologies in advance for this ramble... after talking it over last night, i really think this guy's quite a threat... he's positioned himself really well and puts out a message which can lend itself to a fair amount of negative consequences in the long term...

i was talking last night with my fiancee about mcwhorter... the manhattan institute sent her the book he was pushing on cnn a while back and neither of us has had the chance to read it...

but from reading some of his opeds yesterday (can be found on the manhattan institute site) and seeing the tail end of the cnn bit, he seems like an interesting cat. "interesting" like my grandma says it - meaning "i don't want to say anything bad, so i'll just say 'interesting'"...

there are definitely some truths to the things he talks about. constantly looking for external reasons for lack of success is not productive, on and individual level - and training folks from day one that the world will not allow them to realize their dreams (as opposed to informing folks about those obstacles that exist and what they can do to overcome/dismantle them) is only another barrier for people to climb over.

on this, i think there's a significant difference between telling someone the system is stacked against her/him and telling someone s/he shouldn't even try because it all sucks (and a lot of folks are hearing the former).

it would almost make sense (even though i wouldn't agree) if he were saying the things he's saying, in a dialogue, to the folks he's criticizing (be they mos def, aaron mcgruder or some block gods), but he's not.

the thing that came up for my partner and me is that he's kind of "performing" an internal community dialogue for external onlookers. his books and opeds are written such as to be inaccessible to folks who haven't "arrived" already.

whether or not one agrees with bill cosby, he does make a point of talking to parents and young people and he seems pretty genuine about his intention to improve what he sees as his community, regardless of whether or not one agrees with his tactics.

this difference between cosby and mcwhorter is key, i think.

mcwhorter's audience is wholly different, and it strikes me that, strategically speaking, his work is not so much focused on trying uplift anyone, but rather creating a justification for white people to not take responsibility for our role in perpetuating the ghettoization of black people in particular and, by association, any institutional components of white supremacist racism.

i mean, this guy puts forth that the Civil Rights movement had fully succeeded before SNCC came into being and that everything since then (SNCC included) has just been empty gestures repeated the meaningful movements of the fities. which is ridiculous, if, for instance, you consider the different consequences people of color face for the same "stupid" actions (such as drug use/sale), disparities in income levels for comparable education across "race" lines, etc.

the implications of such a revisionist view of history can be very far-reaching, especially considering how much backtracking and slowing down has already happened with regards to civil rights and liberties in the past twenty years. if his views become even somewhat mainstream, this regress could be accelerated significantly.

also, if anyone on here's ticked off by his perspective on hip hop and you want to raise your blood pressure a bit, read his LATimes bit about "Rap anger isn't a meaningful message". So the problem is really is that McWhorter and to some degree, Cosby, have tailored their rebuke toward Blacks exclusively, especially poor Blacks? Because if that's the case, when is it possible to argue against the pathologies of the Black poor, the race-class group so many of us case about? When can we dismiss unhealthy promiscuity, unnecessary criminality, or social mentalities that view education as somehow "non-Black" and public assistance programs as birthright -- within the community?

I don't think McWhorter really cares about this, but Bill Cosby has a lifetime of service to the Black community that all became moot when he decided to tell Black people about those in their midst who hurt all of us. There is a difference between "Black knuckleheads" and Black people, and that distinction is not hard to make. I don't understand the reluctance of the Michael Eric Dyson wing of the Black Left, who know better than anyone about the dehumanizing pathologies that cripple Black upward mobility in America, yet continue to oppose anyone - especially anyone Black - who speaks about culling those pathologies from our midst. If I want to discuss crack use in Southeast DC, I shouldn't have to mention crystal meth addiction in Phoenix, AZ. sorry about that...the phrase above should read "...the race-class group so many of us care about?"

Typos. Puck apparently pays attention to details.

I was searching my blog for my response to Mcwhorters "critique" of Rap music. Apparently I never made the post or made it on someone else's blog. Mc"wort"er knows next to squat about hip hop or the purpose of protest music especially since he is not an activist.

low class actions are not limited to to those who are money poor. In fact I know many poor people who are stunningly high class in their manners and it has little if anything to do with "three piece suites" or the like mentioned earlier.

Cosby was raised in a rough philly neighborhood by a single mother if I recall correctly. He did stand up to pay his bills and scraped through school to get his education. Everything Bill Cosby has he has worked his ass off for (well most of it). he is not someone who had a silver spoon in his mouth or anything like that. It is this fact that gives him far more credibility than many other people. yeah the cos has worked his ass off--i do not deny that. and i do not deny that some of us black folk possibly do not "try" or we indulge in a lifestyle that is not healthy for us. but i guess, i don't want to lump ALL poor blacks into that category. i come from a family of poor people and while they do not have the education that i do or the ability to travel freely such as i, i do not want to put them into the "knucklehead" category. that which i feel both mcwhorter and cosby does. there are some poor blacks who struggle and still produce healthy, well rounded children who aren't on the block selling drugs, or are out being promiscuous--even though they exist in an environment that promotes that. i just feel, we need to give those folks more credit. the black middle class has these ideas of the black underclass that makes me so angry because there are these blanket ideas being tossed around about them, and it all isn't true.

i appreciate cosby and all that he has done for blacks and the black image in the media (which is very, very important)

in any case, i like this discussion because my thoughts are being challenged in a good way. Nubian, your open letter is remarkable. I love how you speak about white privilege, which McWhorter and people of his ilk consistently avoid. I am so glad that I didn’t see the show. I would have been ill.

You are so right about people like John McWhorter assigning pathology to anything and everything that black people do. While some blacks - just like others in other groups that need to be called on some social pathologies - McWhorter and haters like him tend to be more aggressive with blacks and it isn't out of love. They see what they want to see what they want to see.

They are obsessed house Negroes who will do almost anything (even if subconsciously) to show white people they are different those "other" blacks and to sell a book. "I iz a gud nigger. Read my book." They (McWhorter types and their white pimps) are having a good ol' fashioned incestuous slave cabin romp with one another.

I don’t know about all black families in this country, but I do know that within my own immediate and extended families, which runs/ran the socio-economic spectrum (from very well-off to poor and barely making it) rarely – if ever – talk about slavery; let alone use slavery as a tired excuse for their own personal stagnation or failures.

If anything, they (we) have discussed racism, classism, rising ethnophobia and lack of personal responsibility, which are ALIVE and WELL in this country, being adversarial to black advancement.

In regard to the employment debate, last year I was watching WWOR-New York and they did an exposé about hiring practices of a Hispanic-owned temporary personnel agency in New York.

A new black female employee at the agency noticed how different information was given to black applicants vs. other non-black applicants so she called WWOR and they sent out its “I-Team” to investigate. They sent in testers – two blacks and two whites. All went to the agency with the same credentials and casual dress. The black testers were turned away almost immediately. They were told that there were only jobs for “Spanish-speaking” maids. About 15 minutes later, the white testers went in, and the red carpet was basically rolled out for them. There were all types of jobs available for their choosing.

The firm was reported to the New York City Commission on Human Rights, which did an investigation.

My point is that while it is important for everyone to dress and act appropriately when seeking employment, there is blatant discrimination that exists and it doesn’t matter how proper or appropriately you dress or act. Many times the color of your skin is enough to make bigots discriminate against people.

Also, on a side note, I do believe that negative hip-hop does send out bad messages to our youth just like gospel music tends to send out good messages. I do believe that some youth do embrace and are brainwashed or influenced by some of the messages they hear in the music. I know you were not minimizing this, but music is powerful and influential (Hands Across America, We Are The World, etc. etc.). By the way, if the People’s Institute of New Orleans - an organization founded by a black man but has trainers of many backgrounds - ever has a seminar in your city – take it.

They have a 4-day workshop called "Undoing Racism" and it talks about many of the issues you have brought forth in your open letter.

They talk about how race is a "specious" science and how America embraced the specious science for social engineering purposes – much like it is doing with lumping all "Hispanics" into one "ethnicity" regardless of "race". All of America’s systems (from transportation, political, medical, business, military, educational etc.) in this country are primarily set up to benefit white people. And minorities who make it to the top – like Condoleezza Rice – are simply "gatekeepers" of white privilege.

The workshop was powerful and it had white people (some who acknowledge they were passing as white) crying and some acknowledging that they liked the privilege that comes with being white.

Maybe McWhorter, linguist turned sociologist (with no credentials), could benefit from such a workshop. Don’t count on it. He is merely, as I see it, trying to get his hustle on. nubian:

http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2004/07/cosby-quotables

the above link shows that Cosby did not say or mean to imply all poor blacks. Again, the media made it look that way for thier own ends. I grew up poor (for a while) and I take no offense to Cosby's statements because I know and was the victim of (attempted beat downs, almost jumped, and robbed for not having the "right" clothes and for being smart)the people he refers to.

Terrance: On the job applications:

Earl Ofari Hutchison described the exact same thing happening in LA.

On the Workshops:

A) There is no such thing as "passing for white" unless one ascribes to the "one drop rule". My opinion is that the black middle class and the middle class period in this country, needs to understand that you cannot fix "knuckleheads" until you fix the environment and the culture of America. This is not happening in a vacuum.

What happens in the black middle class and in black families all across this country happen in white, latino, and asian families. They may happen in a different way, with the ends manifesting differently, but it is all interconnected. So when people like Mr. Cosby speak, and talk of the pathology of poor black communities, I often wonder if they are looking at what happens in their own homes? Dr. Cosby for instance criticizes black men for being cheaters, when he himself has had many sexual indescretions. One of his sons was killed by violence in America/ a car-jacking by someone who was not acting out the "madness" of "black knuckleheads". You can't foster a society based on capitalism and then tell the have nots that they can have whatever the haves have, they just have to work harder.

Bill Cosby built his career on questionable entertainment that we now hold as classic. But Fat Albert, Uptown Saturday Night, and Let's Do it Again weren't exactly the greatest representations of black people either. I'm not saying you have to be a saint, all I'm saying is always be cognizant. I appreciate shows like a different world and the cosby show, but I appreciate more the work of his wife Camille.

That's why it pains me so much. You want to help poor black people, then help poor black people. But recognize that part of what creates the "pathology", is the system. You don't have to put poor black people down to do that and you can talk to us and our families by making relevant comments instead of condescending to us. It's not a spoon full of sugar sort of thing, it's more like a spoon full of respect.

If poor black kids aren't making it to college, what does helping black colleges do for them? The same thing for poor kids of any color, if they aren't being given the education to begin with, what is good does it do to continually give money to institutions they will never see?

But back to McWhorter, love your reply to him. I see him and Cos in the same boat, but it's not about their audience, it's more about the attitude. Cantankerous old black man + conservative academic intellectual vs. the poor black with horrible social ills. It's all bs to me. I don't even think these people understand what they're arguing anymore and I know they aren't in touch with the people living these lives. I have been at more than one point in my life, and with people like that you're only preaching to the choir. Few poor black people living in America haven't heard themselves, their parenting, and their lifestyles ridiculed. On the Workshops:

A) There is no such thing as "passing for white" unless one ascribes to the "one drop rule".

I understand that, however, there was a woman in the workshop who was Native American/Irish and raised in Native communities. She talked about how her grandmother, who is native, used her as a child and teen to go into certain restaurants, stores, venues etc. where WHITES ONLY were allowed. Because she was "white looking" she was used to gain access to white establishments.

If you were to see her she looks "white" and I could see how she passes. "Passing" has continued throughout her life. Po' thang cried because the trainers made her realize she was not being her authentic self.

We're digressing a bit, but the same thing happened with a woman who had a Mexican (indigenous) father and a white mother. She was crying because she was tramatized about having to choose sides all of her life. As we all had to "identify" ourselves, she didn't know what to call herself.

A Nigerian immigrant "identified" himself as a REAL "African-American".

There was a black American woman who seemed overly proud that her great grandfather was East Indian (India). He was considered "black" in America because of the hue of his skin.

The 4-day workshop covered so many aspects of race in America including the whole, "Black people can't be racist" ideology. We really don't control the systems in America and whites always have the power to usurp minority progress through the systems be it media, legal, social, etc.; although this doesn't mean we and other minorities shouldn't strive for for a piece of the pie.

It was truly the first time I fully understood the assertion. The People's Institute of New Orleans broke it down well.

In short, the systems are set up to overwhelmingly benefit white people must be changed from the inside out if we truly want "diversity" in America.

McWhorter would probably disagree. To Nubian
I agree with your last statement. There are poor blacks who manage to do the right thing and raise healthy children. That said, among poor blacks there is a sub group who behave in a manner that is self defeating. This is the group that Cosby is complaining about, it is also the group that large portions of white America use to base their opinions on black people. It does not help that the "knuckleheads" are the celebrities of the six o'clock news. Very interesting conversation. There's an assumption that middle class life is somehow NOT pathological. BS. So called upper class life....even fucking crazier. They just have the money to hide it. I love my family, but....we are some crazy black middle class MF's.

But then, the society is horrific, hollow, dead. They'll give mcwhorter 2 hours, but won't give a black person who's really saying something 5 seconds.

I think the hair splitting has to stop. Clearly, their are kernels of truth in what mc and cos say. We have to have the courage to hold our noses and extract the good and toss the rest. We do have to critique ourselves - individually and collectively - honestly and contextually.

To remove the larger context within which this so-called black pathology exists - an illegal war that is murdering thousands of innocent brown people, the theft from the treasury of billions of our tax dollars to fund wholesale murder that could be used to heal the wounds of our people...what's the real pathology?! But we have to look at ourselves anyway.

I think we have to realize that in spite of racism and all the other underhanded shit thrown our way it is in OUR power to change IT and to change ourselves. This I must agree with because I have seen too many people (including myself)who've lived in the gutter pull themselves out - with a little help from friends, family, God. Maybe I'm trippin'. I think we have to realize that in spite of racism and all the other underhanded shit thrown our way it is in OUR power to change IT and to change ourselves. This I must agree with because I have seen too many people (including myself)who've lived in the gutter pull themselves out - with a little help from friends, family, God. Maybe I'm trippin'.

You ain't trippin' you're right on. And I agree there are middle [economic] class people and upper [economic] class people that have serious issues but no one, at least here is excusing it. Very interesting point of view, go on sista, say it like it is. I too am fed up with educated black on tv giving their speeches of the moment on the condition of the black race and what we should do to uplift ourselves, while promoting their new books. Instead of yapping away "while promoting their new book" someone can take the torch like Dr King and show our black children the way. You sure have a lot of readers agreeing with you, which must feel good, but that doesn't mean it is good. Where's the dissent? There are holes, costs, and limitations in EVERY position, but there's something in this thread and perhaps this blog that blocks dissent. My favorite McWhorter moment: After writing an entire book about how he thinks other black people can't write well, he concludes a published op-ed with the sentence "Black Americans deserves better."

Why this guy gets television time is beyond me. He is doing nothing but filtering white institutional racism through black skin.


Cheers,

TH Blackamazon: The issue of scope. The group "black people" includes all persons classified as "black" including (unfortunately) Mr Mc"Wort"er, Clarence Thomas, Me, Malcolm X, Amy Garvey, Frantz Fanon,etc.) Knuckleheads is a group of blacks that fit into the larger group "black people". Therefore by the rules of logic, one can discuss "knuckleheads" without simultaneously talking about ALL black people.

...I think the question was, "How are black knuckleheads not black people," not, "How is 'black knuckleheads' distinct from 'black people.'"

NARTH, the AFA, Exodus, the conservo-homos et al. do the same thing: they talk about a tiny subset of the population--namely meth-addicted gay men who fuck (sans condom) like bunnies in hutches--but imply that it's the norm, or that it's an extension rather than an exception to gay "culture." In other words, gayness is pathological, and these people are just showing worse symptoms of the disease than others. We all exist on a continuum defined by their behavior. I think that the objection to Cosby's remarks were that they didn't argue that the knuckleheads were exceptional, either in terms of black people in general or in terms of black people with a certain amount of money. He made the knuckleheads representative, if not statistically than philosophically. piny: Actually Mr. Cosby cannot factually state that knuckleheads are are exceptional for a variety of reasons.

a) As seen in the murder rate in Newark, NJ for example, though knuckleheads are a relatively small percentage of the population, thier relative numbers in poor black neighborhoods is quite high.

b) In terms of drop-out rates: Dr. Cosby was basing his comments on the stats in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn, NYC where the black drop out rate is above 50% (I have the stats to back that up)

So since Dr. Cosby has been taking his "tour" to places where these stats are not the "exception" why are we acting like he's just being scatter shot? The reason is we allowed the media and knee jerk reaction to critisims of black people.

So while we sit in our relatively safe environments (especially those on college campuses), we should explain to the family members of the 56 people killed in Newark, NJ that what they experienced is a mere "exeption".

amd we wonder why a conservative backed Cory Booker took the mayorship of Newark. Your letter is amazing and completely correct. I didn't know much about McWhorter until I spotted a piece by him in the NY Sun. Ever since then I've kept my distance - I don't need to be angrier than I already am. If I'd seen this my head might have exploded. Kudos for having the wit and wisdom to take him on point for point. I would be curious to know what anyone here thinks of Debra Dickerson's The End of Blackness: Returning the Souls of Black Folk to Their Rightful Owners (New York: Anchor, 2004). How parallel is (and/or is not) her argument to McWhorter's?

I am trying to figure this out. Her book is interesting and she makes some astute points on all sides, but it seems that her ultimate argument is that Black people should just get working and 'uplift' themselves some more. Am I missing something? I have read Mc Whorter's books and frankly don't take him seriously as an intellectual. No 1. he betrays himself so many times on commerical Hip- Hop by quoting the same suspects (i.e. Biggie, Pac etc) and his attempt to be intellecuall is usually anedotal no backed by any real facts. The only reason he has a career is that he says 'Niggas ain't shit" and whites pay handsomely for the priiledge.because as a linguist he sucks.


John Mc Whorter is like Bill Cosby during his so- called "call out" tours, He shuns debate with people who oppose him in public. Ishameal Reed was supposed to debate him in California and he 'backed out' at the last minute after talking in the white conservative press that he was going to intellectually destroy Reed. Reed said he would be at the assinged place on that day and he backed out.

In other words, Mc Whorter is just as much of a "hustla " as the so- called rappers and civil rights leaders he rails against. He is a shit -talker and a well paid one. amc: the good, the bad, and the just plain sad i'm glad that you left the AMC feeling inspired. sometimes that kind of inspiration is crucial for sustaining effort and interest - it's like refueling.

your accounts of the white woman who wanted to make sure POC were trying to make her feel included, and the animal rights dude - SO typical. i'm glad you were there to respond as you did. "i took on the role of that angry black woman who is going to have to open her damn mouth all of the damn time--damn her!"

I'm glad you did. Thank you! what a great synopsis! i must say that i generally left the conference with very similar feelings, impressions and inspirations.

you're so funny: i liked the sarcastic humor in how you described the fucked up situations involving ridiculous comments we heard from some white folks. i absolutely loved your harsh, brutally honest responses to their ignorant shit, and i actually felt kinda sorry for them [not sympathetic, but pitiful] cuz you clearly exposed them as absolute, stupid asses.

but yeah, as you know i also couldn't care less about whether we are excluding anyone by way of building WoC/PoC solidarity and safe spaces. i was so mad at the woman who asked that question, that i could barely hold my tongue. had i been on the panel i would have bashed her racism by a long speech about how PoCs have been systematically excluded from everything since the beginning of history, and that our own organizing and community-building now is nothing but reactionary to their exclusion of us in the first place, and that again, instead of focusing on the source of the current fragmentation in the society, she's only choosing to analyze the final products of the white-on-PoC oppression in relation to how it is detrminental to her own community...; among many other things...

but whatever, they all need to get over themselves...

in the end though, i was very happy i had attended this huge event and i hope i can go next year too. and then i also hope to be on a panel or two myself.

thank you for writing about this. thanks for responding to that woman. when i hear crap like that, i am usually so mad that I can't think of anything to say. I'm glad you told them! Just wanted to drop a line to you and the other women of color bloggers that I met -- Learning about your experiences has been empowering and inspiring for me. I didn't realize how racism played out in the blogging world (outside of racists postings). I'm really considering to launch my own blog in the future.

White folks who can't act right will always be invading spaces like the AMC. I was glad to see you and others step up and challenge their comments. It would have been nice to have had more white allies be more visible and speak out against shit like that.

I attended the conference not really knowing what to expect. Overall, I was impressed! Hope folks will continuing building into the future. i think there needs to be a point where well-meaning white people have to understand that everything doesn't revolve around them. that we need our own spaces, our own conversations, our own revolution without them trying to infiltrate, co-opt, appropriate and take over.

So true--so true. Props to you for being a voice of reason during the conference. I heard from some friends of mine that the woc caucus was amazing - as were you. Gracias for repping and being there Brava to you Nubian for your articulations (even in the midst of anger)! You held it down girl. BEing the Angry.BLack .Woman where it is so desperately needed is not bad as much as badass and wonderful. All three words by themselves and together rule so I find it appropriate that you would be that and I'm glad you came away eenergized for the work you do cause i DO loves it " my voice is important, even if well-meaning whites feel excluded."

Yes, and probably a lot more important and valuable than you realize. Thanks so much for "opening your damn mouth all of the damn time." Brava! wow... its everywhere... the anti race critique rouges are abundant... i'm glad you came away feeling energized, in spite of the bulshit. since i'm older, i just sit here and shake my head and wonder what the hell peole are thinking. it's not like these critiques are new. I mean, "making sure not to exclude white"? GMAFB! I woulda punched her in the neck -- well, the verbal equivalent. My hat's off to you for being angry and not punching her in the neck. Don't stop and thank you. Every "intervention" saves another non-white person or persons the grief. Thank you for using your voice.

Suppose the white woman in the first story remained silent, and didn't ask her question. I'd like to hear opinions on even her presence in the room. I think an appropriate response to the first woman you describe could have been "when predominantly white groups have stopped excluding PoC, then we'll worry about including you in ours".

I wish I could have been there to listen. I have so much to learn, so much information I want to gather, and I think this would have been a perfect place to do it. Feminist groups often complain that men dominate and alter the discussions to suit them, it only makes sense that white folks would do this when they're surrounded by WoC/PoC.

But I want to thank you for your voice. You've challenged me, made me think, made me evaluate, and taught me a great deal. I look forward to learning more from you and one day watching your movie. It trips me out how some white people care more about animals than human beings.I've seen instances where a news reporter spends more time reporting about a mistreated animal versus a human beings who was murderd. During the Hurricane Kutrina disaster to much attention was paid to the animals left behind. I think more attention should of been focused on the survivors and their stories.
Another thing, why do some white people always feel the need to be included in discussions concerning African-American issues . I acknowledge the important role whites played in the Freedom Movement(Civil Rights) but I think it is important for African-Americans to solve our own problems. Young black children need to see black men and women being intellectually independant from the influence of white-American culture and input.
I'm sorry that said so much One more thing

I love your blog. What you have to say is very important. My blog ia not as academic as yours but your blog is very inspiring. despite its flaws, it really was a great conference. and it was made even better cuz i got to hang out with you, sky, and bfp - the most laughs i've had in awhile!

it really makes me happy that we all came away from this really energized. i'm still trying to figure out exactly what my blogging will look like (which is why i haven't written a post yet), but i've got a better idea.

and yes, you and sky need to get on some panels, too. i'll talk to you later.

btw, this: "i think there needs to be a point where well-meaning white people have to understand that everything doesn't revolve around them. that we need our own spaces, our own conversations, our own revolution without them trying to infiltrate, co-opt, appropriate and take over." sparked an idea for another post. stop it, i don't have that much time:) I think what's bothered me about this post the most is how a white male moderated a panel for women of color activists. It's strange how tokenism works in our social groups. Let's suppose, for example, you had attended a "Mainstream Media Conference" (hehheheh), and you attended a panel there. Who do you suppose would have moderated the panel? It's frustrating to me that "tokens" such black women in computer science aren't held up the same way as say, men in nursing; who are generally paid more, and promoted more than their female counterparts.

Going back to the male moderator--let's call him Greg--who selected him? At some point, there was a conversation like, "Who should moderate this panel?" And someone else, or maybe even Greg himself said, "Greg should!" In what way did that conversation make sense to that group of people at that time? It seems to me that a moderator who had relevant experiences to the panel, would have done a far better job moderating. Moreover, if it had been a young person, it would have given him/her a good opportunity to meet some fabulous women "backstage." I dunno, maybe, perhaps, the author of this blog??! I'm glad you got a chance to see just a bit of the positive impact that you have on your readers.

As for playing the 'angry black woman role', I'm glad you spoke up and against comments that derailed the conversation. It's not right for those folks to dump their issues at your doorstep when there's enough to deal with in our own community. Also, now that you've written your response down and shared it with us, I know what to say the next time someone tries that stuff on me! :)

Thanks again,
Didi *cheering from the sidelines* Thanks so much for attending and posting about it. Love all you write. Please don't stop. "grateful?!? for what i had to say--wow. i was in awe."

Here's to you, your writing, and kickass advocacy. Grateful sounds just about right to me. I'd been meaning to talk on this issue, but I didn't even know how to phrase my words properly. In the papers here in England, a piece of news that's been recurrent for the past few days is on a white Briton that went to Africa to apologise for his ancestor's involvement in slave trade. Such a well-meaning gesture, it's opened up so many issues that I'm sure he hadn't anticipated:

1. An apology isn't nearly enough. It isn't politics where the president raises his hands and says 'Sorry y'all, I messed up. Let's put a line under this and move on'. No! It doesn't work that way. The said actions weren't a simple mistake - this was a life, no, history, no world-changing decision - to uproot people from their homelands, take them to some foreign place, treat them worse than animals, and continue to treat their descendants like some inferior species.

2. Black British people have reacted angrily, saying that he apologised to the wrong people and should, instead, have apologised to the descendants of the actual slaves.

3. Many black British people have resumed their latent hostility towards Africans like myself, saying that we Africans descend from people that sold their neighbours to the slavers *sigh*

Evidently, it's opened up a can of worms that might have better left closed (arguably). His actions have reinforced a painful fact: we are a people divided. The divisions existing among us black people is a direct result of racism, and this is something I cannot forgive the white people too easily for.

A statement you made resonated strongly within me: "I think there needs to be a point where well-meaning white people have to understand that everything doesn't revolve around them. that we need our own spaces, our own conversations, our own revolution without them trying to infiltrate, co-opt, appropriate and take over." This statement is so true. Everyday I'm bombarded by white people who wonder why I feel the need to analyse an issue relating to black people only. They say surely whatever issues affect black people also affect white people. Usually I just want to tell them to shut up but you've put it more appropriately. They just can't understand that something in the world can exist without them - they can't control our thoughts, our conversations, anything about us. Are they secretly afraid that together black people can form a body so formidable as to obliterate white people? Is that what it's all about? Or are they so fascinated by black people that they feel the need to be all up in our business ALL of the time?

PS: Sorry about the essay...again. {KISS} I love you K!!

It took me a bit to find a Black female's blog that I wanted to follow & I'm glad I found yours!!

Your breakdown of the moderator's moderating rational role in a roomful of emotional x-chromosome types is spot on!!!!

That woman ~ there always seems to be this tit for tat thing going on with white people. We talk about POC so now we must include whites. It doesn't work that way. As stated, our experiences are largely in response to and because of marginalization. Whites are NOT marginalized. They steadfastly refuse to let go of any power/privilege - even though they may pretend. There is power in self-directed discourse (see white guy moderator) Discussions are white-focused 99.9% of the time. The discussion for .1% turns to the rest of us & they feel the need to yank even that bit of power.

Animal rights ~ just a way to take our eye off the ball. Just another excuse not to deal w/ real problems facing non-white people. That abolition remark speaks VOLUMES. After all is said and done, we regard you as less than animals!!

Yeah...stay the fuck out of our space. you have a fantastic voice, sense of humour and analysis--it's direct, funny, insightful, with this vein of passion underneath. I really enjoy reading your writing and I'm really glad its there. I hope you publish lots as an academic :) I have never been here before (cam e via a brotherlove link). I must tell you that I loved this post. I wish I could have been there to see you put people in check! LOL.

I wonder if white people ever realize that they are late to the party? As we speak, black folk in the US are busily creating something else that will exclude them, and by the time they catch up to us, we, in our infinite creativity and wisdom, will have moved on to something even newer. I am constantly amazed and the brilliance and tenancity of my people.

For now though, can we sit in the lunchroom together without all these questions? Can we get a well-deserved break? LOL Suppose the white woman in the first story remained silent, and didn't ask her question. I'd like to hear opinions on even her presence in the room.

Why couldn't she just listen? If she had, maybe she would have been able to answer her own question, which is that the world doesn't revolve around her and how comfortable she feels. In activism, it's about what you can contribute, not what others must do to make you feel more comfortable.

I don't think that the people who spoke to her should have been put in that position in their own discussion of which she was an uninvited guest and she needed to hear it. I'm sorry it had to happen that way. I do hope this woman puts aside her feelings of entitlement long enough to learn an important lesson so she doesn't put other women through having to deal with her again. i posted this over at superbabymama, but i'm commenting again here, because well -- i dared myself to. no expectation of a response here. at all. it's a little weird because i talk about you (nubian) in the third person, but i remain a lazy-ass cut and paster.

"ok. yes. marginalized people should have space. PoC, WoC, queers, poor, etc. space is good and productive, and I think that a lot is learned by both being included and excluded from safe space, having been on both edges of it.

and i do think that nubian was right to call out the woman on her shit. that seems obvious. but i also think that her question is one that i have. and i don't know what to do with that. though i think that i would reverse the order of operations to ask (and i don't think i would ask PoC activists this, i just ask myself it A LOT, and the blogosphere it here) "how can white activists support and foster PoC/anti-racist activism?" and maybe the answer would be to get the F of their way and let them have the space and i hear that sentiment, i really do. but i disagree with nubian that PoC can have "their own revolution" -- i'm totally with her up until that point. i think that coalition does not have to mean "infiltr(ation), copt(ion), appropriat(ion) or a take over". i think that coalition is really hard, and really sucks a lot of the time, but i can't stop believing in it somehow. and i fully acknowledge that part of my faith in a coalition among PoC, queers, and poor folks might be born our of my own sense of privilege and wanting to be *part*.

ok, i'm clearly not *resolved* on any of this, but if y'all have thoughts, i'd love to hear them." I think this,

how can white activists support and foster PoC/anti-racist activism?"

is a lot different than this,

how do people of color work to not exclude whites from their activism

You may have the same question but it's worded in a way that puts the responsibility and the work rightfully on you, not on people of color.

i think that coalition does not have to mean "infiltr(ation), copt(ion), appropriat(ion) or a take over". i think that coalition is really hard, and really sucks a lot of the time, but i can't stop believing in it somehow.

I agree that coalitions are damned hard to create and more importantly to keep going and they take work. Sometimes I wonder if they are better for the short-term than long-term, mostly on the more difficult days. I've seen racism and classism in affect enough though despite all the good intentions in the world, that I'm skeptical.

White people appropriating or co-opting or trying to water down what's going on in movemments involving issues that affect mostly people of color, i.e. police reform.

Also, in terms of class, people who are middle-class or wealthier or who are steeped in academia telling those who do not have this background how to address issues that largely affect their lives as if the lack of a college education means you are not smart enough to run your movement. Different people bring different forms of education and experience to the table with them.

Men too often try to control movements where women try to address their issues. Like you said, it can be hard. Thanks for the report backs. You are awesome! I agree with this, especially what you wrote about the animal rights group. I'm all for animal rights, but people now treat animals with more respect than human beings, especially if those human beings are poor or women or of color. Yeah, white people fucking suck.

- Tracy During the Hurricane Kutrina disaster to much attention was paid to the animals left behind. I think more attention should of been focused on the survivors and their stories.

The stories of the animals were the stories of the survivors. Many of the people who stayed behind in New Orleans did so because they weren't allowed to take their pets with them if they evacuated. Many of the survivors had no family other than their pets. Many of the survivors were told that their pets would be cared for, and then their animals were killed by the authorities. The problems with animals during Katrina were problems relating to money and class and race, a small part of a larger picture. The pets of rich, white people weren't the ones being left behind! Okay, I had to respond to this b.s. by the "anonymous" poster above me.

The stories of the animals were the stories of the survivors. Many of the people who stayed behind in New Orleans did so because they weren't allowed to take their pets with them if they evacuated.

No, the stories of the animals was NOT the stories of the survivors. There is absolutely no proof that a significant number of people stayed behind because they weren't allowed to take their animals with them. As a matter of fact, people were able to take their animals with them and even before enough beds had been found for all of the PEOPLE who needed shelter, there were already shelters set up specifically for the pets of displaced people.

Many of the survivors had no family other than their pets. Many of the survivors were told that their pets would be cared for, and then their animals were killed by the authorities.

Okay, how are you defining "many"? You clearly have no idea what happened during the hurricane so perhaps you ought to stick to discussing issues that you do understand. Were some animals killed? Absolutely. Did such killings take place in more than a couple of locations? Absolutely NOT. The storm killed far more people than it did animals. If you had been here, you'd know that. Of course, you WEREN'T, so you're just repeating some tripe that you heard from somewhere else.

The problems with animals during Katrina were problems relating to money and class and race, a small part of a larger picture. The pets of rich, white people weren't the ones being left behind!

Wrong again. The majority of animal deaths occurred because most people who left before the storm didn't realize that they'd wind up being away for weeks (at best), so some left their pets behind and the animals wound up being stuck in houses that flooded and drowned them. As a result of this fact, the pets of rich, white people didn't fare much better than the pets of the poor.

The stories about the animals WEREN'T the stories of the survivors. If you really cared about either group, you could have at least taken the time to find out what really happened down here. Please, do yourself a favor and stop being so ignorant. "one woman even came up to me and said that my blog was one of the first women of color blogs that she read and that she was grateful for it."

i don't remember if yours is the first but otherwise she took the words right out of my mouth. What you are saying is so important in the feminist world. So often women of any description are pitted against each other by men in order to distract us from their control. We have spend decades attempting to educate men to the needs women have for our own space, our own mentality and alliances. How tragic now that the very people who claim to understand such a need are those very same people who wish to deny black women a personal forum. We should simply as feminists collectively get it, that spaces and history and experiences are needed and need to be respected. We have all had different experiences of oppression and oppressing each other by suggesting that black feminists exclude other feminists is tantamount to saying guppies oppress goldfish. The only ones who win when we disrespect each other are the saw-toothed pirrahnas, powerful rich white men. I wish I could've attended a conference like that myself.

To be honest, I'm really surprised that that woman had the nerve to ask her question. The face of feminism is decidedly white, but the second non-white women form groups of their own, her attitude shifts to that of a six-year-old who's been snubbed on a birthday guest list. 传世私服
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传奇私服 live from the AMC looking forward to hearing the rest...glad you got to go. Was there any discussion about podcasting or audioblogging as a medium? Or is it considered to be a fad? yes. one woman was a vlogger and a podcaster. we didn't really go into discussing that much, since we only had an hour and 20 minutes. 传世私服
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传奇私服 I am a 25 year old white woman who wears skirts and white panty hose every day. I like black women and when I was 13 years old, I wore miniskirts and white panty hose every day. I had this 12 year old black female friend, and she wore t-shirts and jeans every day. She had a boxing ring set up in her basement, and we used to go down there all the time and she would beat me up and slap me around in the boxing ring - while she was wearing her t-shirts and jeans, and I was wearing my t-shirts, denim miniskirts, and white panty hose....I would like to see more domination of white women by black women....

• stronger, better, faster!
• frustration
• what the...
• did i hurt your feelings?
• quick question
• open letter to dr. john mcwhorter
• amc: the good, the bad, and the just plain sad
• live from the AMC
• why are we all so hostile?
• conclusion

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